Edward Sexton Offshore Bespoke suit: Review
This linen double-breasted suit was made by Edward Sexton under their Offshore Bespoke system. We previously covered the process, how it works and its pricing here.
I was impressed by the results. It’s a very well-fitting suit, and certainly feels bespoke. Any reader that normally buys ready-made suits, or most made-to-measure, would feel they were getting something superior.
But there are noticeable differences from the full bespoke Sexton too – which I have previously used for a grey-flannel suit in the same cut, here.
The most obvious of these is that the chest is rather stiffer, largely as a result of it being machine padded, rather than by hand. Of course, you can have a lightweight machine-padded canvas too, as most Italian RTW suits use. But Sexton uses heavier materials.
There are also some small differences in the fit. The collar sits nicely on the back of the neck most of the time, but when the arms are raised – for example, when I put my hands in my pockets – it lifts off the neck more than my bespoke would. The left sleeve could perhaps also do with a tweak to the pitch.
We did have two fittings on the suit, but both these issues are ones that I didn’t notice until I started wearing the suit for longer periods. And both will hopefully be able to be corrected.
Overall, I’m pleased with the suit and I think it delivers what it claims: an Edward Sexton cut that’s more accessible than the normal bespoke (given that it cost £2500, inc. VAT as opposed to £5500).
However, I wouldn’t say that it feels the same as the full English bespoke experience, as I have done with some other offshore services such as Whitcomb & Shaftesbury.
Interestingly, in one way the experience mirrored that of some other high-end made-to-measure I’ve had, such as from The Armoury.
This was, that while the fundamentals of balance and 3D shape were good from the start, smaller and easier things went wrong. With The Armoury, it was the trouser waist that was a size too big. With this Sexton suit, it was the length of the trousers.
It felt a little silly changing the length, which was too long, too short, and then a little too long again. But Dominic and Dan were very pleasant throughout this process – which all took place in the new Sexton shop on Savile Row.
The only other changes we made were putting a little more shape in the waist, and shortening the sleeve length. Edward was present for the first fitting, but not subsequently as smaller changes were required.
By the way, I’ve found that alteration marks on the trousers, such as those visible around the cuff in the photos here, fade over time with wear, washing and pressing. So they won’t be there forever, even on linen.
It’s important to note that Edward cut a new pattern for me on this suit, rather than use my existing one. This is something he is wont to do, apparently, even on old customers.
So my experience was closer to the normal Offshore Bespoke one, in that a completely new pattern was drafted. It would have been less similar if my other, already refined pattern had been used.
Although, at the same time, we can’t know how much that pattern was aided by Edward’s existing knowledge of my shape and peculiarities.
In terms of the make, this suit is mostly the same as full bespoke. The finishing on things like buttonholes and buttons are all obviously done by hand, for example.
However, some points are done by machine, such as the attachment of the lining inside the jacket and the waistband on the trousers. The work that is done by hand also isn’t as fine as on my full bespoke.
This says more about the standard of the full Sexton bespoke, I think, than the offshore product.
The former is among the best in the world, with especially fine, precise work coming out of London. The offshore standard is still very good – better than most Neapolitans, for example – but not at the same level as London.
The style of the Edward Sexton double-breasted is one I love, but I find often doesn’t come across in simple fit shots.
The big sweep of the bellied lapel is wonderful, particularly when married with the wide, roped shoulder and long straight edge below the waist button. But it can look a little square in straight-on photos, with arms soldier-like at the sides.
The stylish line of the lapel is really revealed in more normal, three-quarters shots like the one below. Or when you have a hand in your pocket, sweeping back that front edge and revealing the large overlap. Even seated, as shown top, with the two sides of the jacket falling across the lap.
A good cut works well in all these contexts – and double-breasted styles have particular potential for doing it well.
The linen, by the way, is from W Bill (WB61324, Fine Irish Linens). It is what I would always pick for a suit or trousers in linen: Irish, plain weave and 12-13oz.
The dark-brown colour is one I’ve enjoyed in tailoring for quite a while – see my Dalcuore high-twist suit for example.
I find it’s particularly good at looking smart and subtle, yet distinctive. It’s an unusual colour for linen so you’re unlikely to find someone wearing the same thing. But it also avoids the colonial/wedding feel of cream or beige.
The trousers will also do double duty with smart polo shirts or knitwear in the summer, in the same way as I wear that colour of flannels in the winter (see here).
I particularly like this shade of brown with blue (especially denim and chambray) and the neutrals of white, grey and black.
Above it’s shown with a chambray-linen shirt and black knitted tie, while below the shirt is a white twill, worn without a tie. My alternative for the second outfit was a black shirt with cream handkerchief, which looked just as good (in the same vein as the Vestrucci flannel here).
The dusty brown does supports bright colours very well - as with the handkerchief shown below – but for me they’re best in a small accessory.
I’ve deliberately worn the handkerchief in a demonstrative fashion, springing flower-like out of the breast pocket.
It’s not what I’d normally do, but I think it helps draw attention when you’re not wearing anything at the neck. And let’s face it, this kind of suit is going to be worn to an event or dinner most of the time, where such flounces are more acceptable.
The subject of suits without ties is also one that deserves delving into at a later date.
The shoes shown are Belgravias from Edward Green, in black cordovan. The handkerchief is from Rubinacci and the tie is knitted silk from Tie Your Tie.
The linen shirt is from Luca Avitabile, the white twill from Simone Abbarchi.
Edward Sexton Offshore Bespoke starts at £2,500 (including VAT). Details on the whole process can be found on the background article here.
Photography: Alex Natt @adnatt
Simon
Is 240gsm too light a linen for a suit?
It will be a bit cooler, but it will also wrinkle a lot more. I prefer heavier weights. For more guidance on linen see the Guide to Linen here
Simon, if I may “This is something he is wont to do, apparently, even on old customers.”
Sorry, isn’t that’s what’s written here?
I guess he means “is won’t” being a contradiction… do you mean will do or won’t do? I was a tad confused by it too…
No, I mean ‘wont’. As in, it was her wont, her customary behaviour.
Might be commenter is confused between “wont” and “won’t”
This is a great suit – I was thinking of ES Offshore prior to my wedding being postponed. Hopefully I can revisit the idea at some point in the future.
Yes, I assume that’s the case.
Thanks on the suit!
Yup, that’s a bit an unusual phrase in a non-English speaking country
Never let it be said this site is only about clothing.
And to think, I wondered if it was a moment of hesitation regarding “old customers” vs “returning customers”.
Doubtless my own insecurities coming to the fore!
Simon, that is one reason why I like writing comments here. I wouldn’t get a chance to practice a more “proper” way of writing in English otherwise, even if just for variety’s sake.
Hello Simon, great suit and love the colour. Well put together. I’d also like to know if your imbalance of neck and shoulder height was delt with in the first or the second fitting?
Thank you.
I’m not sure what you mean by the imbalance. Do you mean the fact that I said the collar stands off the neck a little? If so, that hasn’t been corrected yet. You can still see it here, in the sixth photo
Wonderful colour.
Simon, this has persuaded me to finally go bespoke.
Is this linen weight suitable for travel? With the ending of restrictions, I’m likely to return to short flights, taxi and , then, meeting and would aim to arrive looking smart. Also, your advice,please, I have a pair of Carmina cordovan derbies(brown but dark) . Would this combo of brown suit and brown shoes work?Do I need a stronger contrast?
Thank you
Hi Peter,
Nice to hear. As to linen, this will wrinkle from travel, but then it will wrinkle with normal wear as well. I think you need to decide whether wrinkled linen looks smart enough for your business, travel or not.
I think you’d probably want more contrast, but it’s hard to tell without seeing the shoes. It helps a little if there’s variation in the darkness of the brown around the shoe too.
S
What about burgundy or Cordovan #8 as a color with brown/tobacco-colored linens?
To be honest I don’t find it works for me. The colours aren’t naturally complementary, I find, and there often isn’t enough contrast either.
Simon, this seems to contradict your thoughts on colour 8 with brown trousers in WHAT SHOES SHOULD I WEAR WITH BROWN TROUSERS? (Please forgive me if I am misunderstanding) do you still dislike the look? I am having a brown linen suit made for next summer and am considering shoes to wear alongside. Perhaps safer to go with a black loafer than colour 8?
Best,
Thomas
Yes I think you’re right, my thinking has evolved a little there. It does also make a difference on whether it’s a suit or just chinos or flannels for example, I think. Color 8 or cordovan always works better for me with brown trousers than with suits.
Still, do try it. I’d say default to black but see how you feel about C8 with your suit. Hope it works out well
Hello Simon, that is indeed a lovely garment. Maybe it’s just the photographs, but are the trousers a little narrower than you usually get?
I’d just like to throw my two cents in, advocating the brown linen suit. I took delivery about 4 months ago, at the beginning of this most recent Sydney summer, a single breasted suit (in Holland & Sherry linen) and it is such a versatile item of clothing. With natural shoulders and patch pockets, it works at the pub with white leather trainers, a balmy evening soiree with black Sagans, and with a knit tie (as you have here) in my ad agency office. I’ve also been breaking up the trousers and jacket to great effect too. I’ve been wearing it all summer, and it’s breaking in and rumpling nicely. If any readers are umming and ahhing, I say pull the trigger – you won’t regret it. Nick.
Wonderful to hear! Thanks for the first-hand experiences Nick.
The trousers are actually a little wider than normal at the opening – the same as I had with the trousers on my Sexton flannel suit. Perhaps that lack of taper makes the rest of the leg look narrower?
Sorry, also meant to ask: is that the Frank Clegg tote in the last shot?
That is a Frank Clegg tote, yes, but not our collaboration one, if that’s what you mean
What color of leather? Is this their standard Tall Tote? Thanks.
No, large working tote, in chestnut – see post on it here (from 10 years ago – doing well!)
Simon, I don’t know if this has already been discussed on the other post about this offshore bespoke service, but what’s your take on the “savoir-faire” from Savile Row that is exported to China and sometimes India? Couldn’t this be a direct threat in a few years time to some of the tailors on Savile Row if these trained craftsmen in Asia begin to offer their bespoke services directly to the final consumers?
Interesting point, and no we haven’t discussed it.
I guess one point is that the bespoke cutting and fitting – which arguably is more key to the difference bespoke offers – is not transferred as it’s all done in London. And the making side is not that hard to learn and copy if you wanted to, so the fact there are some people being trained out there to do it won’t make as big a difference, though I’m sure it will make some.
Also, this happens all the time with tailors and cutters that train in Europe somewhere, then go back to Hong Kong or Japan and set up on their own.
Interesting point indeed. If you ask some of the younger tailors that were trained on SR for the past 10 years and have left the Row in recent years for a bundle of reasons (e.g. lack of management, no career opportunities) some of them believe SR in the end will become a kind of MTM, attracting a bling-bling clientele that’s more interested in the name & brand. While they “the young ones” will hold the torch of fully bespoke and their ateliers (with daylight!) will be scattered all over London. Not sure if this is the true, though, but according to some of them it may very well be (part of) the picture in some years with SR companies depending on MTM for their survival. It’s all very hypothetical, I know. But as one of them says: “What’s the point of coming to London and getting measured if the suit is made somewhere in Asia anyway. I just can’t see the point.”
Like Matrix mentioned, “This is something he is wont to do, apparently, even on old customers.”
I believe this should be “This is something he wants to do”?
Hey. No, see above – I mean wont, as in custom
Haha how unusual exactly is “wont” for native speakers? I have also never read/heard that word before, having lived in English speaking countries for more than ten years now.
Nice suit, though with an open collar and the pocket square it looks a little studied. I am a little unsure how well the dramatic style goes with the casual material. I also nearly always find that brown simply doesn’t go that well with people who have a pale complexion.
Not that common. More likely to be heard among big readers I’d imagine.
Interesting you think the white-shirt outfit looks more studied. I would have thought less, given the lack of tie. Perhaps it’s just the pronounced hank.
I think most native speakers would be aware of ‘wont’ even if they didn’t use it themselves. Lets keep our vocabulary extensive and rich; like fine tailoring we will miss it when its gone!
Looks a really nice suit Simon. Nice to see a decent length on the jacket. Great price as well.
Paul
The trousers would benefit from a fuller cut, no? The pronounced look of that jacket almost make them look like toothpicks. That’s a general remark about English tailors, e.g. Davide Taub cuts his trousers very narrow as well. I would think a wider cut is more flattering in the general picture – and in summerr certainly they’re certainly more comfortable.
I like the colour of the suit 🙂
Cheers Burt.
Actually, as mentioned above, the trousers are wider at the bottom that what I normally have. I think they look slim because there is this lack of taper, and as you mention, because the jacket itself is so wide and structured. I can certainly see an argument for them being wider, though I wouldn’t alter the opening – at the most I’d add a centimetre in the width at the knee
Great choice of fabric and colour.
As for me I would prefer to have 1 suit from the full experience than 2 with a machine padded chest made offshore.
Simon
I am thinking of what I would term a summer “knockabout” suit made. Would go for a navy or brown linen. Key difference, however, would be a teba jacket instead of normal jacket. Would this look too weird do you think? I want something pretty casual that can be worn as seperates.
Most dressed up would be a cotton tie for summer drinks, most relaxed would be plimsolls at the pub.
thoughts always welcome
Hi Gregoire,
To be honest, I think it could look a little odd, yes. And there is a risk you regret it, where a normal suit would have been safer.
I think the two would certainly work apart, but they might be a little strange together, as a suit with a tie.
Then again, I’m not a huge fan of teba jackets in general. I like the unstructured nature, but I’d always prefer a normal collar/lapel, and a little more shape.
S
I had a similar question. I know that you are a skeptic to using suit jackets and trousers as separates. But I wonder if I used the same linen but a neapolitan style jacket with patch pockets. Would that work as a summer suit where the trousers also could be used with shirt and shacket, and the jacket with chinos or fresco trousers.
Yes that certainly could work Carl, but it would be better with fresco or similar tailored trousers. I wouldn’t wear it with normal jeans or chinos.
See here for a pure linen jacket worn with fresco trousers. I wouldn’t have a suit in that blue, but a dark brown like this would also work well there.
Hi Simon,
great suit! Looks complete with or without a tie. Did you buy the black Belgravias in cordovan RTW or were they MTO?
Thanks and have a great day!
Cheers.
They were RTW
Simon, a wonderful suit and a beautifully written post if I may add. I must also compliment you on the combination of the shirt, tie and suit, it really shows the versatility of the suit.
Thank you Ravi, that’s very kind
Hi Simon,
I just wanted to reiterate my comment on the previous ‘off shoring’ post.
My observation here (not a criticism), is the difference between off-shoring bespoke is in principle hardly different to the much criticised cheaper manufacturing of products sold in retail chain stores and online . It appears just a matter of degree.
Both are cheaper (therefore possibly more disposable), increase sales for the brand and offer more accessibility through the opportunity for more people to purchase products similar to those normally outside their price range. Utilising a manufacturing base where factory and labour costs are cheaper.
My point is that neither is necessarily wrong, however I don’t feel it’s equitable to regard them differently.
As I said at the outset this is not as criticism, simply an observation.
Thanks Stephen, and certainly not taken as one, it’s a good point.
On a completely different subject, you mentioned on a previous post that John Simons were updating their website. They have done so now. It looks very good and the quality of the images are some of the best around.
Thanks Stephen, and thanks for updating everyone else too.
I’ve always thought double breasted in linen is not the best combination: linen would be good to keep one cooler, but then one has the overall of a double-breasted that makes the suit warmer. And for a seasonal item, having something more striking like a double-breasted probably further reduces the frequency of wear of something that’s already not going to be worn very frequently.
Any thoughts on the above?
Otherwise, I’m a fan of double-breasted suits, and dark brown suits, and think this suit shows the strength of both very well.
I think linen is rarely worn just to keep cool. That might be part of it, but it’s always because you like the material and the look too. And the trade off in heat of having DB rather than SB, is just like that between lighter and heavier linen – you prefer one because you like the style, even if it isn’t quite as cool.
On frequency of wear, you’re right that this is a more striking suit for that choice. But it depends what you want it for. A brown linen suit might be an occasion piece for most people anyway, so why not have it DB as well?
Hi Simon,
How much would you say the structure of this suit—lining, canvas, etc.—might contribute to it being warmer in summer? I tend to run pretty warm, but adore the look of this. Just wanted to get your take. Would Edward Sexton offer an option that might allow for more breathability, do you think?
Hi Luke,
Good point, that will make a difference, and I’d say that makes it less suitable for non-English summers.
But no, for offshore bespoke they won’t offer other options. Only in full bespoke.
My memory is that they would allow half lined or quarter lined jackets for offshore bespoke, but no changes to the interior structure – that would require full bespoke. I may be wrong though.
Sorry, yes I meant the canvas/structure can’t change, not the lining.
This brown linen would be right at home walking the streets of Florence! Lovely, really. I confess that the “colonial” look of cream or beige caused a slight “ouch” as is customary (wont to do) when I read your articles. I was in between the brown and the banana beige. Now I know what was in the back of my head when I chose the yellow beige. I just couldn’t put my finger on it. Oh well, next year. Brown is so underrated as color for a suit, but it is far more effective in moving from formality to casual than navy or grey, in so much as both the brown jacket and trousers work well on their own. Navy trousers and the grey towers less so. Not sure how the banana linen will do when I separate them..
Just had to do the “wont” play… When I first saw it I thought “Oxbridge” or something,… funny how I can’t see an American using it, at least not under the age of 60. Need to get off the internet, Netflix and go back to reading more often.
A really beautiful looking suit, and a cracking advert for English tailoring. The interplay of the formal cut and more casual cloth is sensational, and shows that Savile Row needn’t be for the boardroom alone.
I very much like the buttons, Simon. Well chosen. Can you say which ones they are, or were they E. Sexton proprietary?
They’re pretty standard unpolished horn, used by most on Savile Row. You can get them through Bernstein & Banleys
Hi Simon,
Have you had water stains on your linen suits before? How would you deal with such issue? Thanks.
Water stains? No, water has always just dried away. I guess if it’s a pale linen, and the water had any dirt in it at all, then I can see how it could leave something at the edge. I’d try dabbing that edge with clean water first, and see if you can lift the dirt on the edges away
Bravo on wearing brown and black! I was honestly beginning to believe I was the only person in the world who did this– nice to have a bit of company.
Hi Simon, I agree that the dark brown looks stunning. However is it really suitable for work place and meetings? I think for suit it’s navy 90% of the time and grey 10% of the time, it’s pretty rare to see any colour other than this two so I’m slightly wary of wearing dark brown. Is dark brown more suitable for events than office wear? Thanks!
Yes, absolutely. This isn’t a colour for business – see my list here of the first five suits to own for that kind of use.
Excellent suit, I particularly love the shade of brown and how it works with black! I take it from the original post covering offshore bespoke that you received this suit quick recently, you must have been cold for the photoshoot!!
It does ask the question the logistics of how you organise the photoshoots with your photographer, I would be interested to know how you plan and whether you bring multiple outfits with you.
W
Hi William,
Yes, this was rather advanced planning for summer. If anything I tend to plan too late, so it’s nice to be ahead of myself for once. I also wanted to review the service now for PS, but really want to try that cut in a summer suit, having had it in flannel before.
I was a little cold, although actually it was unseasonably warm that day.
In terms of planning shoots, I tend to work out two or three outfits in advance, and then bring them into town with me. I base myself somewhere, such as my club Mortimer House, to make changing back and forth easier.
S
Fantastic suit Simon. I think linen is a great material for making a DB seem less formal. The only DB suit I currently own is in tobacco linen for this reason. I use it more as separates than a full suit.
What do you think of this brown vs tobacco (like your Dege suit)? Both avoid the colonial connotations but perhaps this brown is more versatile and can even look better when the sun isn’t shining (even if tobacco is a little more interesting )?
Yes I agree. This will be more useful and perhaps more elegant, but the tobacco is more obviously exciting.
How wide is the lapel by the way Simon ? Would be nice to compare with the other suits you’ve published those numbers.
Good point Noel. The flannel Sexton suit is actually in the Bespoke Style book, so its numbers are in there (and are the same as this). But I’ve never published it online so far. Maybe I will soon.
The lapel width is 4.5 inches
The suit looks great, Simon. I had a very similar one made a few years ago in the Sexton offshore bespoke. Brown Caccioppoli linen with the low -button 4×1, patch pockets, and no vent. The suit is beautiful and I often wear it with a white open collar shirt or just the jacket with formal light colored cotton or linen trousers. In retrospect I wish I would have went with a 6×1 DB. The low button closure makes for a beautiful line, but overall the look is so dramatic it stands out more than I’d like for it to.
Interesting, thanks Justin. Would it be an option to just add another row of buttons at the top?
That’s a beautiful suit, Simon. I’m a big fan of Edward Sexton, both the man and the house. The cut and the color work very well how you have styled it with an open-neck shirt. I think the structure of the Sexton cut is a flattering look for you.
Simon,
As always a lovely suit. Like you say standing straight on, the long edge below the waist button and the lapel seem a little boxy but in other photos the sweep of the lapel is beautiful. I think I might have moved bottom 2 right buttons ¼ or ½ inch to the right for a tighter look and to accentuate the flow of the lapel but that is just my style.
Interesting combination of colours you wore with. Not quite sure of the black shoes and tie. I think the colour of your cordovan loafers would have been just as good but perhaps a little too casual. Love the interplay of the different weights of linen you are wearing at the moment. Personally, I would have gone with very, very light blue linen shirt and a blue or sage knitted tie but then you run the risk of merging all into one but that is my wont (used correctly).
Thanks Dan.
I did look at cordovan, but there wasn’t really enough contrast with the tone of the suit.
On the buttons, I presume you mean you would space the buttons on the two lowest rows further apart. You obviously can’t just move the two buttons on the right, or the pair would be off centre.
FYI – I do also own an English language school should anyone be interested…… I could do a discount for PS followers.
As for the suit, brown is a colour I would never choose, then when I do I am really please with it. I have a very similar one that you are wearing but in cashmere… now I am very tempted to go get a linen one. Suit looks tip top shipmate.
Simon, I think this is a great option for pretty much anyone who works somewhere where casual suits are the go (or here in Australia, where linen is the go for much of the year in a lot of places).
I have a quite unrelated question, though: how do you fit all these suits into your house? If you have any suggestions for keeping more suits than anyone would ever need handy in a way that means you can actually wear most of them without going to your storage unit, I’d love an article on it.
Or is the nearest charity shop near to you filled to brim with exquisitely made suits with one shoulder higher than the other?
Well, I do regularly give away and sell on clothes – I hate anything to go to waste.
But I do also store a lot of things in the roof – see post here.
Hello Simon. What do you think about old Tailored Garments from back in the 1930s and the style from back then?
Hi Josh,
I like a lot of the looks, and am a particular fan of the sportswear from that period. The tailoring proportions would look a little dated if worn today though, so I find it’s best to take inspiration from one or two small points – such as pleats, or slightly higher-waisted trousers – rather than copying anything wholesale.
Was that the kind of thing you were asking about?
Thanks
Simon
Yes thank you.
Josh
Hello, Simon.
Lovely suit! Just a question about your comment that the trousers will do ‘double duty’.
I’ve previously been advised not to wear the jacket and trousers of a suit as separates because over time they may visibly show different levels of wear. Do you think breaking up a suit is contraindicated for this reason (i.e. other than for style)? I guess it may be more of a possibility with certain fabrics – like fine worsteds developing a more pronounced sheen or ‘patina’ with wear, perhaps?
For that reason also, I’ve noticed over the course of my travels that tailors in South Korea offer a second pair of trousers to use as a separate when commissioning a suit.
If not, then it makes a casual suit in a heavy linen like this all the more attractive a proposition, living in Australia as I do. As I already have a nice pair of dark brown Crispaire trousers, so dark bottle green may be just as versatile. Would you agree?
Many thanks.
Hi Flynn,
The issue with wearing two parts of a suit separately is mostly that one (usually the trousers) will wear out before the jacket does, rather than the fact they will look different. That can happen, but it’s usually fairly minor, and only if you barely wear one of them at all.
That’s also the reason tailors recommend two pairs of trousers – to extend the life of the suit, not to allow them to be worn separately. Because you would rarely split up a worsted suit – the two things don’t usually work well on their own, certainly the jacket.
In all cases, though, it depends heavily on how many clothes you have. If you’re wearing suits five days a week in the office, and you only have three or four, then you should always get two pairs of trousers. But if you have more clothes, and suits are worn more occasionally anyway, then it’s less of an issue. I don’t have two pairs of trousers made these days for that reason.
A dark green linen suit would be lovely, yes. Though I’d aim for more of a dark olive – not the stronger colour of bottle green.
S
Hi Simon- love that shade of brown- it does give a lot of options for wearing the full suit and/or trousers, as you mentioned. If you have a moment, might you share you thoughts about using the cordovan shoe as you make your choice of which shoes to wear? I think the cordovan steps up things just a touch- subtle and complementary to the suiting.
Hi Jay,
Thank you. The choice to wear the cordovan here was just about the colour and the style of the shoe. As I noted on the previous piece on cordovan, I don’t really notice much difference in the look of the shoe when the cordovan is black. It just looks like calf.
Generally I don’t wear cordovan much with suits. My other shoes in it, in colours other than black, are a bit too casual for that most of the time.
Simon
Very nice suit and you wear it well; thanks for the post
Are there any online courses teaching Savile Row Standards Tailoring or only attending Savile Row Academy in London.
I’ll be interested to see how you find a double breasted linen suit in heat of summer. I have one and even though it is linen (W Bill 13oz by WW Chan), it is too warm for its purpose. On a hot day unbuttoning a single breasted linen jacket seams natural and cooling. Unbuttoning a d/b looks messy. Buttoned and you have twice the fabric over the torso; not what you need.
Good point Edward. I have worn double-breasteds in high heat, and you certainly notice that difference. I’m less likely to wear this in 40 degrees in Italy, more 30 degrees in England. And of course, being warmer does make it a little easier to wear in slightly cooler conditions, as is often the case in England even on a sunny summer’s day.
A suit that is double breasted and in a brown colour seems at odds with advice given in your recent post ‘mistakes I have made’.
The message there was to go for garments that would get a lot of use – single breasted suits in standard colours.
Thanks.
That post was about outfits more, not about individual commissions.
On individual commissions, certainly the general advice is to go for simpler, less unusual pieces. But this is really not that unusual – a lot less showy than a tobacco linen, a shooting suit, perhaps even a prince-of-wales suit.
I also didn’t say, or mean to say, in that article that you should just have single-breasted suits, or just standard colours. It all depends on your circumstances and current wardrobe. I wouldn’t recommend this as one of your first five suits. But if you already have a brown single-breasted, as I do, and like it, and many others besides, then it makes sense.
Hi Simon,
This is a lovely suit! A quick question: if the attachement of the lining is made by machine, it shouldn’t be as consequential as we usualy assume it to be.
What is your own take on this?
John
Thanks John.
What do you mean it’s not as consequential? You mean it doesn’t make much difference whether that attachment is done by hand or not?
If so, then yes I agree, it’s not a big thing. It’s not practical – unlike handwork on the chest padding for example – and it’s not really visible – unlike a beautiful hand-sewn buttonhole.
It’s just something that makes up a beautiful bespoke garment normally, that makes it a beautiful piece of craft. And it’s a level of craft you should really expect if you’re paying Savile Row prices.
That is exactly what I meant!Thank you for your reply, Simon. Greatly appreciated!
Dear Simon –
I “want” to say that (as an English professor), you won’t likely use the word wont anytime soon, again. I’ve never seen such controversy around such a harmless word that – interestingly enough – I used two days ago for the first time in my writing (ever). To be honest, I had to look it up on-line to make sure I was using it correctly. And I was. And you did, too. Well done.
Be well!
Wes
Nice to hear Wes.
I was equally surprised, though I do find I use it now and again. There are several that seem to creep in like that. Explicate is another one. You’d think you mean explain or extricate, but you don’t.
It’s right up there with – “rapt attention” and “brought to bear.”
Not to mention (or to mention in this case) – infer vs. imply.
Nice suit! I am wont to use the word wont even when I don’t want to.
I’m a little confused when you state that Edward tends to cut a new pattern for older bespoke clients who wish the offshore option subsequently. I can see doing this for you as part of a more accurate review for a potential new client, though as you mention, he would be aware of any particular idiosyncratic quirks from before. However, would it not be more efficient and more better fitting to adjust the existing bespoke pattern of a former client? It would lead to less need for alterations and a better fit right from the get go, I would suspect…
No I think you misunderstand, SC. Edward just has a tendency to want to start again with some old customers on their patterns, whether normal bespoke or offshore. I don’t know the details of why, but I’m sure he has his reasons. As you say, it’s not what you’d expect.
Most offshore bespoke does involve using the existing pattern, if there is one.
It appears a size larger than you would normally wear Simon – is that the case
You mean the suit Peter? Well it’s not in sizes, being bespoke obviously. But even then, no it’s not cut bigger really. Was there one particular aspect of it that looked big to you?
Hi Simon
When did you order yours?
I ordered two at (what I thought was) the same time as you. I haven’t heard anything !!!
I ordered back in November – and it’s been back and had alterations twice since then
Sorry, got fixated on who got whose first !!!
It’s a very nice suit. The Sexton cut does suit you (my 5 so far are similarly pleasing). I have an identical one to this in a HFW grey flannel save for an extra ticket pocket but have linen ones too, opting for Dugdale Crommelin for a jacket and Natural Elements for a suit and Odd Trousers. I have a 4/1 double breasted Fresco Lite and a SB HFW Chalk Stripe on order and hopefully arriving soon.
As for your pocket hankie thoughts I have a (self imposed) rule of wearing one when I don’t wear a tie and not sporting one when I do. I think it has to be a little peacock-like when worn with a Sexton suit because the lapel covers most of the breast pocket !!!
Lovely to see the result of this commission after the promising introductory post; it‘s so much more understated – in the best, most versatile way, I mean – than I expected from the Sexton style examples in the original article! This bodes well for me and raises the possibility of using the service for suits beyond the most formal or flamboyant occasions. The colour is wonderful in linen too. I‘m sure Willy will be impressed ? Thanks as always for the insights and inspiration
Wonderful suit! Close up pf jacket front very nice. You look great, Simon! What happened to your hats from Chicago? Nothing to fit for summertime?
I don’t have a panama from Optimo, though I do have a couple of nice ones from A&S. Not really the kind of day for it though
Simon-
Offshore Bespoke’s impact on SR’s future should be front and center here. I’m stateside. We lost domestic artisanal work to China long ago. If this review doesn’t give one pause then you guys across the pond aren’t paying attention.
Simon, in 20 years might you be telling your grandchildren about a storied street with shuttered shops where British tailors once crafted fine suits? Or will this trend breath new life into an arcane institution allowing access for more and younger clients ? I believe you’re in the second camp. ($7700 for an ES full bespoke suit! …no wonder Whitcomb & Shaftsbury found a niche).
This is a thought provoking big deal. Although I enjoy discussing shoe selection and shirt color, there is a more important story here. I know you will follow it closely.
Thanks Robert, I certainly will.
I think it’s interesting to point out, though, that Savile Row has relied on immigrants for its tailors for a long time. It’s only in recent years that there has been anywhere near enough appetite among English people to do that work.
Also, Savile Row hasn’t been that place most in the world think it is for many years. There are only a handful of bespoke tailors, despite the resurgence of interest in both tailoring and craft in the past 20 years.
Thank you for replying. Having never set foot in any of these SR shops I appreciate your commentary. And yes, there is a mystique. I follow your reviews daily and find them both informative and ( like this one) thought provoking. All the best.
Robert raises an interesting point. I would point out that relying on immigrants and outsourcing are very different.
In a way a wouldn’t mind Savile Row losing it’s status as a THE place to be if you want to be in the bespoke industry. If moving to another location in London means you don’t have to pay extortionate rents and can pass on some of the savings to your customers and also feel more secure as a business because of lower costs then I would never think ‘Oh but it doesn’t say Savile Row on the label’.
Nick. Thank you for your thoughtful comment. And yes, as you noted, the main issue is outsourcing and not reliance on immigrant labor. My tailor immigrated from Paraguay. But he lives in my community. His work is superb. Maybe not ES superb, but I can live with that since his prices are within my reach. He has no SR prestige. But when I commission a piece he alone touches the garment. The unfinished piece doesn’t go on a trans global grand tour. My money stays local. And as a result I help his local shop stay viable. Simon has suggested that in England until recently there has been little appetite for this type of work. That has likely allowed outsourcing to flourish and certainly rings true. My tailor is not a young man and he is struggling to find an apprentice. The work is hard and I suspect profit margins are slim. This is a very thought provoking topic that isn’t going to go away.
Hi Robert – my wife’s family is from Paraguay. Where are you guys from? Would love to support a Paraguayan tailor.
Thanks,
Mike
Hey Mike-
Atlanta. Flor’s Tailor Shop. Easily found with a google search. Cheers.
Hi Simon
I enjoy reading your honest, constructive reviews of different tailors work, but it seems your main focus is on the jacket. As someone who has a particular interest in trousers it would be good if you were to pay them a bit more attention in your write ups?
Hi Daniel,
Sure, good point. There often isn’t room to go into every aspect, and so I focus on the jacket as it has so many more issues and variation between tailors. But I can do a piece at some point more on trouser cuts.
S
Simon wrote: “But I can do a piece at some point more on trouser cuts.”
+1 🙂
Hi Simon, would you mind giving a little more detail on the back of the jacket? Specifically the pleating/drag lines near the armscye. I run into issues with pleating like that as well as fabric pooling below the arm and collapsing a bit in the chest. I just wonder if it’s even worth trying to address. I see an elegant sophisticated gentleman such as yourself with some similar issues, and wonder if it’s a fools errand to even try.
Thanks for your time and insight.
Hi Dirk,
First off, I’d say that it’s always hard to tell much accurately about fit from online photos. And that it’s even harder to do so from verbal descriptions. So I won’t really be able to say whether your issues are correctable or indeed wrong.
Also, the back of the sleeve there is a place where you will get messiness if a tailor cuts a bigger sleeve. It’s a style decision to have that, and is more functional. It can still be done well or badly, but it’s not just that.
A better thing to look at, often is the pitch of the sleeve – so whether you see big folds when looking at the sleeve from the side, with the body in profile. This should look generally as if the sleeve follows the arm, and wouldn’t be smoother if angled further forward or further back.
With this Sexton suit, the left sleeve does need a small change to the pitch, as mentioned. The right does not. But they both look a tiny bit messy at the back.
Fabric pooling below the armhole and the chest looking like it’s collapsing there is a common problem, which might be due to several things. The balance of the shoulders might be wrong, being too sloping or too flat. The armhole might be too small, and your armpit is pressing on it. Or there might be too much material in the chest.
Each has a different solution, and the common mistake consumers and inexperienced tailors make, is to try and always fix that symptom with the same thing. Often just making the chest smaller – because it’s the easiest fix.
So even if I saw that issue on your suit in person, I am not a tailor and could not say with confidence what is causing it.
I hope that’s informative, if not necessarily helpful
Simon
Simon,
Firstly thank you so much for an informative post, as usual.
I have a quick question. “The offshore standard is still very good – better than most Neapolitans.” I assume you are not talking about those big named houses in Napoli, but off-shore bespoke by Chineses / Indians offers better quality than done by the Italians? The difference in price between off-shore bespoke and Neapolitan bespoke is not that big, so just wondering, as I’ve never experienced the off-shore service and always doubted the quality, your further explanation would be beneficial.
Hi JL,
I am only referring to the exterior finishing at that point in the article. So basically, how fine the buttonholes are sewn, how precise the work is, and so on. On just that score the work on this suit is the same as any house in Naples. Mostly because the Neapolitans just don’t prioritise finishing like that. Finishing is better from almost anywhere else – Milan, Paris, London etc
Hey Simon, this is beautiful.
What’s the waist suppression like on ES versus the newer (& newest gen.) nutters tailors… C&M & MB? The photos I see of ES, the waist always appears to be more ‘forgiving’.
It does tend to be, yes. He is not as extreme.
Got it, thank you Simon.
For the linens, I noticed you’ve gone for Scabal, W Bill, Dugdale etc. Any reason why you’ve chosen them over Solbiati? (Other than weight)
Weight is the first consideration, then colour. There just happens not to have been a Soliati colour I preferred. They do also tend to do lighter and more open cloths
I will start by saying that I am not the biggest fan of this style, notably the shoulders. That is entirely a matter of taste and not right or wrong.
What might be a teeny bit less subjective is a question the conjunction of an inherently more relaxed material and a highly tailored style. It feels like this style of tailoring might suit a more formal fabric.
Final observation : I think this suit could be great in 5 to 10 years but you have to wear it hard. If you wear this suit hard, it will end up looking great. If you treat if with kid gloves it will continue to look over tailored and precious for the nature of the material and the intended purpose.
All personal opinions. No right or wrong answer. De gustibus etc.
Great points, thank you.
I agree on the fabric, that’s definitely a risk. Personally I think this works OK because it’s a heavier Irish linen, in a dark colour. Something more casual like an Italian wool/silk/linen would not work, I don’t think.
And very true on wearing it hard. Linen tends to look best the first two or three times you wear it, and about 20 times later.
28/07/2015 Simon said : “No, I would never wear a DB suit without a tie.”
I guess there is an exception now for linen? I think a formal worsted suit without a tie looks horrible, because of my connotation with all the boring politicians who think they look so dynamic and young without a tie. But I think it looks really good in your example above. I absolutely adore the look of a chocolate brown linen suit well done.
Always nice when I’m held to account from six years earlier! Yes I think you’re right, it works better and makes far more sense in a casual material like linen or cotton. It would look odd in a smart worsted.
The point with a DB really is that it is nearly always smarter than an SB in the same material etc, and that to wear something without a tie, it should be more casual. So a DB suit is generally not a good idea. But a casual material and colour helps a lot to push the balance the other way.
Simon,
Excellent article as always.
I very much like the formal, rather dramatic cut contrasting with the linen cloth. I am looking to commission something similar in a different colour.
Is this lined, unlined or half? I am keen to maintain the shape and structure of the cut whilst still keeping the summer lightness. Planning on half lined but curious.
Fully lined – see post on what I normally have lined here
Would you please explain me the differencs of Edward Sexton,Chittleborough and Morgan and Michael Browne?
I think there are two answers to that – one very short and one very long!
In short, they are all great bespoke tailors that grew from the same tradition around Tommy Nutter and his bespoke. They are all fairly structured, all quite stylised (eg large lapels, sculpted shapes) and all at the top end of quality.
There are many subtle differences, including for example the way that Michael Browne is working, perfecting every aspect of the process (at a price).
If you want more on these level of difference, I suggest you my coverage of all three tailors on PS. That is the best way to start. And do ask any follow-up questions on those articles if there’s something I haven’t answered in the piece.
Hi Simon.
Beautiful suit.
How wide is foot hole opening on this suit?
Is it the same as the size of foot hole you would normally adopt?
Thank you!
It’s 22cm, which is wider than I would normally wear. I’m normally around 20cm
Hi Simon
How cool does this suit/cloth wear and what is the coolest suit/ or jacket and trouser that you own?
Thanks
Not that cool as it’s double breasted and a fairly heavy, structured style.
The ones that wear coolest are my cotton or wool/silk/linen ones from Neapolitan makers, such as this Solito jacket or this Dalcuore seersucker suit
Hi Simon, love this suit. I think with the increased popularisation of Asian tailors, such as prologue, the anthology, the armoury etc (due to their often humid climate) and the reduced requirement to look so formal these days, linen suits are something I personally have been looking at more recently.
Do you think this suit would be suitable for an English wedding with a semi-formal dress-code? I’m a little tired of my go-to blue suit and I often think a wedding is a good excuse to wear something less ‘businessy’.
Thank you,
Hey Henry,
Yes I think it would be nice. Clearly not business, but not too showy either.
Though as with all weddings, everything about appropriateness depends on the bride’s family and what they want
Simon-
Would you consider going with Edward’s single breasted style (usually 1 button and peak lapel) on a commission? I have a DB by Edward as well and have considered a SB as a doing out to dinner dinner/occasion suit as well but have yet to nail down a cloth. Thanks.
I’ve never felt as drawn to the SB style, to be honest. Much as I love the Chittleborough suit of mine, for example, which is not that dissimilar, I far prefer the DB style I’ve found.
Curious if you have an update: How has this suit held up? Do you wear it often? Does it have a wide range of uses or narrow? Does this weight of linen prevent the trousers from becoming a puddle of cloth by the end of the day?
Thanks,
Ed
I don’t wear it that often Ed, no. Partly because it’s really only a warm-weather suit, and because it is a slightly striking style, being Sexton.
I do wear the trousers on their own, and they’re great. I’m not sure about the problem of puddling though – if anything I find the opposite is a more common problem, with linen riding up because they wrinkle? But yes, it does wrinkle a lot less than lighter or Italian linens
Hi Simon. Beautiful suit! I’m interested in the fabric and it’s versatility if commissioning a suit in it. Would a jacket in this material with a more Neapolitan style be wearable as an odd jacket?
Yes I think so, though I’d still wear it really only with smarter trousers. You’d want a rougher, more slubby and open linen for a more casual jacket
Simon,
Do you find that the Sexton cut is something that can be worn in a professional business setting? I love the aesthetic and silhouette, but it is a bit outside the typical office cut.
Best,
Chandler
No, I don’t think it is, personally
Hi Simon,
Hope you are well,
given the house style of Edward sexton, which they got heavy shoulder chest paddings, would you say there is no much difference in terms of breathability if I wanna commission a half lined summer suit using a normal 100% wool 300-330g worsted or high twist summer wool like fox air?
If so, would you recommend me not to go with structured tailors for summer suits/sports jackets for their MTM/offshore bespoke(which they can’t change the level of paddings)?
Thanks
No, I would say there would be a difference with the high twists.
On structured for summer tailoring, definitely one with less structure will be cooler. It’s hard to say whether it will be radical change for you, as we all feel heat differently, but I definitely think it’s something you should try and some stage to compare
Hey Simon,
Love the brown linen suit. Looking to get a pair of trousers made from the same material. I was curious since it says here you used the WB61324 (https://www.harrisons1863.com/product/wb61324/), but the fabric swatch on the official site looks much darker than your suit. I thought your suit looked more like the WB61323 (https://www.harrisons1863.com/product/wb61323/), just wanted to make sure so I can pick the right fabric based off yours.
Regards!
I think that’s right, 61323 looks too light to me. The linens do vary a little bit between pieces (when each batch is woven) but they’re usually pretty similar, and I would err towards darker if I had a choice in any case
How interesting to see different pictures portraying this suit so differently. Here, for me first thing cames to mind is its your typical english suit of armor. The picture you posted on instagram today, id never think it.
Good point Markus. I think a lot about DBs is how you wear them
Simon,
I know you had this suit made some time ago, but I had a question in relation to Edward Sexton tailoring if I may? I am getting married next year and an Edward Sexton suit has been at the top of my list for some time. I cannot stretch to full Sexton bespoke but Offshore is within budget. I know there is also a MTM option which comes in at around £1000 under Offshore Bespoke.
I know there will be differences in finishing, and the option to alter fit and finer details with OB over MTM (plus a wider range of cloth options). Do you feel this is worth the extra investment? My main criteria is how significant a difference in fit and finishing quality there will be and how noticeable this is? If it is likely to be minimal I would lean towards MTM I feel, but if offshore bespoke offers a dramatic step up then I would be happy to pay the premium for it.
I don’t think you’d notice a big difference unless you have a more difficult body to fit
Thank you. I think in that case that MTM may be the better option.
Hi Simon:
I am attending a summer wedding to be held at an outdoors resort location (tropical but not on the beach) and have commissioned a bespoke single-breasted dark brown linen suit. The shade of the linen is very similar to your Sexton suit.
I love the look with a white shirt and a black knitted or grenadine silk tie, but wonder whether a black tie is too somber/funereal for a wedding. I would much appreciate your suggestions as to alternative shirt and tie combinations for such a suit and occasion. Thank you very much.
Yes, I can see black might be a bit too serious.
A nice formal option would be white shirt with grey silk tie, perhaps with a subtle pattern. But given the setting colour might be nice too – perhaps a dark green or a burnt orange or a yellow, on a pale blue shirt
Hello Sir,
I was the Master’s student studying in UK who asked for your advice last time. It was greatly helpful. Currently following your advice, having some English bespoke shirt in the make (I picked Sean O’flynn), and wondering about the Edward Sexton bit, I’ll like to commission an odd jacket. Constantly browsing PS page, thinking maybe a hopsack blazer? Or should I go for an earth tone sport coat, wondering which one fits the Edward Sexton style better in your opinion? Or perhaps suits? Thank you
Best regards,
Wu
Either colour, but I think a suit would be better – a dark flannel or a worsted perhaps