There is an old saying that you can tell a lot about someone by how they treat waiters. Actually it probably extends to anyone that serves you - bus drivers, bar staff, shop staff.
The thinking is that if a seemingly nice, charming person is rude and patronising to someone serving them, it reveals them to be actually rather arrogant and unkind.
I’ve always found that interesting, and I think it’s a relationship that’s becoming increasingly strained as our society has become atomised - often technology mediates between those two sides, if it hasn’t replaced the serving side altogether.
The result is that the whole relationship merges with technology, and its emphasis on speed and convenience makes us ever less patient.
OK, but a bit off-topic for menswear surely? Yes, except that in our world of high-end clothing I think it’s worth remembering that we have less of this - we’re less mediated by technology and closer to the people that design and make our clothes. We’re fortunate - but we don't always appreciate it.
When we talk about brands together on PS, they’re often compared by price and by value, and we get into a conversation about what you’re actually paying for - one has a physical shop, the other doesn’t; one has staff that know and understand the product, the other has ones that can do little more than fetch you a size.
Good staff are wonderful and should be valued. They don’t just make the experience more pleasurable, they often give crucial advice on sizing, on shrinkage, on how clothes wear. Yet it’s rare today that people say they want to pay for it.
I’m sometimes shocked by the things people write to our shop support team. Ninety-nine per cent are lovely, polite and appreciative. I’m sure more so than the vast majority of online stores. But the number of people who will order something at 5pm on a Friday, and then send five increasingly angry emails over the weekend, asking why their order hasn’t shipped, never fails to surprise me.
Or they get aggressively rhetorical - to quote one actual email, ‘how are these things being delivered, on the back of a donkey?’ It’s lazy and rude, but the role of service staff has become one where the staff are always expected to say ‘yes sir, no sir’, like a robot, merely letting the customer rant.
Which of course is exactly what you end up with. You end up with online bots, proclaiming to be helpful but understanding nothing. This drives me crazy - I actually punched a wall last week as the EE broadband helpline sent me round in circles with numerical phone options. It’s infuriating, dehumanising even.
The equivalent with clothes is that you’ll find yourself scrolling for hours, trying to work fiddly filters and peering at tiny pictures, rather than walking around a beautiful shop and seeing, feeling and trying beautiful things.
And with the first option your package might be delivered on a Sunday, but down the back of the bins even though it’s raining.
I am certainly not innocent in all this. I find myself reading WhatsApp messages while someone in Pret is asking me how I’d like to pay. I catch myself listening to music in one ear - only removing one headphone - as I explain my coffee order.
I’ve done it with online customer service too. I once ordered a pair of sandals from a mainstream brand, and got hugely, disproportionately angry at someone on the phone when they couldn’t explain how to work the returns system.
In fact, I think the main reason I haven’t done something like that recently is that I’m much more aware of the other side, seeing our customer service emails every day. My wife always said she thought she was more considerate because she worked in Caffe Nero when she was younger. She knows what the service industry is like.
I don’t pretend to have a valid opinion on the state of politeness in society as a whole. I also don’t want the comments section to turn into a list of old-man’s rants about the kids today.
But I do think it’s an interesting angle on how we value clothes, their prices and their value. I think a lot of readers are understandably cynical about designer brands, and that can bleed into how they see pricing generally. But good staff are just as much worth paying for as added cashmere content.
Staff are the bedrock of the menswear industry and only if we value them - including how we treat them - will they remain. Otherwise it’s back to nothing but scrolling and peering and filtering.
Pictured: Some shops with great staff (there are so many on PS). From top: Schostal, Rome; 40 Colori, London; Atelier Bomba, Rome; Wythe, New York; Moulded Shoe, New York; Mes Chaussettes Rouges, Paris
I’d like to be the first to compliment Black Horse Lane staff in Kings Cross for providing outstanding service in helping me buy, and then alter, a pair of chinos despite my chronic indecision and prevarication.
Ha! Love it and I’m sure they’ll appreciate the shout out
I’ll echo that sentiment in relation to the staff at their Berwick Street shop – they were very helpful, taking me through the various options I was mulling over and dealing with the alterations speedily, even as the (relatively small) store filled up.
I can identify strongly with that. It’s easy to be crippled with indecision, particularly when it’s an expensive item and you really want to get it right. In my experience, though, iteration is required almost regardless, and, knowing this, I try to be more decisive (though never rash!).
On the whole, I find the opportunity to speak to shop staff one of the pleasures of bricks-and-mortar retail. At the top end, these will be guys that share my passion, and who will gladly chat whether you buy something or not. I will always learn something from them.
Finally, all credit to Simon: he has answered every comment I have ever posted, and usually does so within a matter of hours. That takes extraordinary commitment.
Another upvote here for Black Horse Lane and Lucy in particular, who’s just lovely and knows so much about denim (I now don’t fold any of my jeans but hang then instead) who I immediately thought of reading this article – and all that quality service for alterations of vintage jeans that I’d bought elsewhere.
Well said, sir. It’s sad that we decry the state of customer service, but mistreat those who provide it. I don’t think it’s a new thing – about 40 years ago I worked for some time in a now-defunct bookshop; most of the customers were great, but a few – and often not the few one might have expected – were difficult, rude and unpleasant. With the growth of global brands and mega corporations like Amazon, I think we have become so used to shouting at a brick wall when something goes wrong, that we sometimes fail to see the difference when dealing with more human organisations. And that’s just going to keep making the problem worse, I think.
That’s a good point. I was originally going in the opposite direction, that companies like Amazon have literally turned the average consumer into a spoiled baby because of fast delivery/seamless returns/etc, so that they don’t know how to act when dealing with smaller businesses that don’t have those kinds of resources. Both sides of the coin at work!
I worked in a corporate mailroom for years in Boston.
Fedex, UPS, DHL US Mail all met us daily on the loading dock, double checking with us the amount of items delivered, waiting for us to sign off, etc. Very professional.
Amazon, meanwhile, hired an especially young crowd who cared not one bit about their job and would simply enter the large corporate bldg. and toss the items wherever they wished, no sign off, and leave. We’d discover the items in stairwells, hallways, etc.
Their domestic delivery style is equally disastrous. They’re a parody of themselves, the worst of the modern era.
I worked in a Waterstones bookshop when I was at university, and for a short time after. I got to the point where I felt so ground down by how rude people could be – people who expected you to be able to recommend books for their kids, identify a book from being told the colour of the cover, or know automatically what the latest TEFL course textbook was – that I ended up being pretty rude myself. Not Dylan Moran in Black Books-level, but I wince with embarrassment looking back. But I hope and think it’s made me much more polite as I’ve grown up and since then I’ve tried to be unfailingly so to anyone serving me, anywhere. And if I deal with a brand, or people within a brand, who show care, knowledge, attention and all the rest to their products, and to their customers – as I have at The Anthology, Anglo Italian, Rubato, the PS Shop, Colhays and others – I feel like I’ll be a customer for life. An enormous online retail behemoth can provide a great logistics service, but it doesn’t lift your spirits – which I genuinely believe those named do.
Really lovely to hear Joe
Simon,
With the greatest of respect, consider psychotherapy! Punching a wall is not a healthy, proportionate or well regulated response to frustration with an automated telephone service!
Yours,
Someone who needed a lot of therapy to stop themselves punching walls when dealing with frustrating situations
aye true,,,, too much ego, too much anger, let it all go Simon. Live egoless and the anger will recede rather than allowing it to harm yourself, that’s a crazy situation and who suffers? who does it help?
The wall suffers.
And besides, what has the wall done but listened patiently all these years?
Dear Simon. This is a great article.
In my opinion, it appears from the comments section that some PS readers are too focussed on the cost of materials and assembly, whereas often the largest portion of value is in the design itself.
In addition to the design element, the importance of a physical store can’t be underestimated. Drake’s, for instance, has come in for a bit of a kicking of late for its pricing in the comments section from some readers, but if you want to be served by knowledgeable members of staff in a prime central London location (goodness knows what just the business rates are on that property), clearly there is going to be an additional cost.
As for the rude emails to your team, given the speed with which PS products sell out then I’d suggest the following response: “the donkey has not yet left the building so we have managed to cancel the order to avoid further disappointment”.
It’s a valid point but has Drake’s not always been in the same location? Location may not be the full picture in any case as Drakes seem to either price by multiplying base costs (as luxury brands do) or they have simply become so popular that they believe that they can set whatever price they want, and price is now decoupled from underlying cost. It used to be that you could buy a complete outfit from Drake’s at a high but reasonable cost. Now I tend to buy select pieces that you can’t get elsewhere. It is lovely stuff though and the quality is always excellent, I just wish that the pricing was a little less aspirational.
On that point Richard, no Drake’s used to be in a much smaller piece on Clifford Street, and they moved into Savile Row just before Covid (not great timing).
And most brands work off base costs, not just luxury ones.
Simon, all this talk of donkeys — does PS make an oh-so-British Donkey Jacket?
Ha! I wish, that would be nice. Maybe one for the future. I did love the old Cabourn one they used to do
The Cabourn one was a good jacket. I visited an alterations specialist some years ago and he happened to have one in for a minor repair. As we regarded it, he pointed out to me how hugely expensive the fabric would have been.
Yes absolutely
…and then there’s the Australian Norwellan showerproof Bluey jacket.
But, yes, a Donkey Jacket with its signature black leather shoulders would be a nice addition to the PS line.
Interesting comment Simon, but I’m sure it’s only half the story when it comes to pricing. Of course, margin calculations are important, but so is the price the market expects/will bear.
Look at AI, H&K and Drakes shirt pricing for example; the are all very similar. Then look at EW and Budd and so are theirs.
Some years ago, my tailor (well known name) increased their prices by quite a lot. When I asked why, their reply was that they suddenly realised they were a lot cheaper than their (equivalent) competitor tailoring houses.
Yes that certainly happens, though in my experience it’s more around the margins, or as a sense check for how the price will be perceived.
Sort of. Minimum margins of course apply (although loss leaders have their place) but these will not act as a price cap in any way. In my long career running retail organisations, pricing was almost always market driven.
£107,460 would be the rates if they dont qualify for any discounts. No idea if thats more or less than you expected.
Seems they took on both the ground floor and the basement when they moved in as they were previously listed as seperate valuations but were combined into one. Presumably they thought it was good value as were it bad they’d not have taken the basement but had off premises for whatever they’re using the basement for.
Drake shop+basement:
– Rent approx £199,000 pa
– Business rates approx £102,883 pa
(business rates are always roughly 50% of rent (“rateable value”))
It’s crazy the volume of stuff any clothes shop has to sell just to break even – even at the prices Drake charge (which is far from Tom Ford, Chanel pricing).
Remember before making a profit, they also need to cover rent, business rates, staff wages, electricity, utilities.
It’s not like Drake are some high end fashion brand like Chanel or Tom Ford where prices & profit margins are far higher.
For Drake’s it’s not so much the price, albeit it’s high, it’s rather than I have simply no idea how I could wear items such as the multi vertical stripe rugby, or the ecru red and blue boucle wool zip fleece. I’m sure that £75 is a fair price for a navy duck emblem cotton baseball cap (Made in Portugal), but I just fear it’s truly not compatible with my style, nor do I know a single person who would look particularly good in it. That being said, I applaud their steadfast commitment to this very unique 80s inspired high/low aesthetic and I sure there is an audience for them. I also really like their more classic stuff, such as the games suits and ties.
Yes, and of course you’re paying for a certain assurance of both quality and design with Drake’s. I find it mystifying that some people object to this, as if they’re factors that shouldn’t necessarily bump up cost when compared to more basic items from other vendors.
Being nice allways pays off. Unless you have been nice 2 times before and been brushed off. Problems with rude people at least partially comes from the fact that they asume they are dealing with someone who doesnt care, or are unable to help without going trough 3 levels of managers.
Re slow dispatch. Well… if site says 5pm cutoff, i place order at 4pm, and i paid extra for 24h shipping, which at least at royal mail very well means i could get parcel saturday too, but by monday parcel is not despatched, i do see nothing wrong with asking for refund for shipping. Now with free shipping i couldnt complain besides hey guys, did you forgot my order?
Best staff ive met was in blackhorse lane! Unfortunately i have just 1 jeans from them because sizing just doesnt work and i really dont want to pay for mtm… but it was the only place in london with “i dont want to “sell” to you. I want you to leave this place with great jeans and if it doesnt work, its absolutely fine!” And also at least in my opinion they hemmed more precisely than son of a stag.
Tip for online chatbots. Go to complains, that gets you trough to live person fastest. And than ask to be connected to correct departament.
I really feel the need to mention Emily at the Anderson & Sheppard Haberdashery as the ultimate in London. She’s is beyond helpful and lovely at ALL times. I’ve saw some really unacceptable people in there (maybe not regulars) and she has an incredible grace / ability to handle them. And she is incredibly generous with her time too.
Some of the joy that comes from buying clothes comes from the memory of good service and, over time, relationships. I can’t be the only one who loves the handwritten note that comes with the socks from MCR or the drink and a chat in Drake’s. I have used the same local outfitter for a long time so I have a good experience just buying a polo shirt as it is more than just a commercial transaction.
Hi Simon, Interesting take on menswear and politeness in general. Personally I think everyone should do a stint in the service industry, whether that be for example shops, pubs ( I had experience in both in my very young days) restaurants, coffee shops etc. I always greet and thank a bus driver for example and try to stay off the phone when placing orders. That’s not to say I don’t sometimes get a bit frustrated and some shop staff can be a little snooty in my experience. Being polite can be a powerful asset and costs nothing. A good rule of thumb is would you talk to your mother like that?
A good come back on bad manners (from the grandmother of my son in law): “you dropped something “, “what?”, “your manners!”
Just don’t get me started on cyclists on pavements!
Anderson & Sheppard and Anglo Italian remain the gold standard. It’s built into their DNA and comes from the top. What a pleasure it is to visit these boutiques
I completely agree with the point made in this article. As a teenager, I worked on Saturdays and holidays in, what was for South Wales, a comparatively high-end menswear shop. The importance of good service was drummed into me by the owner (interestingly, along with the principle that one couldn’t let anyone leave the shop looking a mess!) and it’s a lesson I never forgot. It also became something of an unconscious yardstick by which I judge my interaction with different retailers and makers. Over the years, I’ve received excellent service from Whitcomb & Shaftesbury, Saman Amel, The Anthology, Trunk, William Crabtree, Anglo-Italian, Crockett & Jones, Drakes (Barrington is quite extraordinary in that respect) and Luca Faloni. It’s that quality of service that keeps me loyal to the brands. For many years, I avoided buying from another well-known brand (which makes frequent appearances on PS) because my visits to the shop were met with rudeness and arrogance. Consequently, I went elsewhere to make my purchases. Fortunately, in more recent years there has been a change of staff and the new appointments are extremely pleasant and helpful. As a result, I have become a customer.
Unfortunately, I have experienced the opposite too. A retail operation (again one which would be very familiar to readers of PS), which in its earlier days was really pleasant and which I frequented whenever I could, seems to have changed significantly. Perhaps its success has gone to its head a little and friendliness and an enthusiasm to engage with customers seems to have been replaced by arrogance and dismissiveness. It’s a shame, as it means that I am less and less likely to buy from them. Indeed, I can’t remember the last time I did.
It’s often said that politeness costs nothing. For me, good service is an important factor in good business – I doubt I’m alone in thinking that.
Rubato and Bycelands.
Brycelands wins the prize for most supercilious staff
Just to offer an alternative experience of Brycelands. I’ve had two interactions with their staff, and both have been great.
I popped into the shop on Chiltern Street one day and Andre was very helpful despite me being clear that I was really just there to check sizing on some things
Then Ben was great over the phone when there was a minor quality issue with an online order. The issues was then fixed promptly and without fuss.
Not questioning the experiences of those above, but it’s certainly not universal.
Christ, I know! They are truly awful. Will never be buying from their shop again. Not only do they eye you up and down to assess whether or not you are the right type of person to be in there, but they provide terrible advice. I watched them quite aggressively advise a clearly mild mannered guy whose size was out of stock to buy a size or two larger. He looked uncomfortable and clearly unhappy with how the shirt looked, while three guys smugly asserted it was a perfect fit.
Also had the shop boy, Ben, act like a coked-up savile row tailor whilst describing their MTM programme. It was quite embarrassing. Being a cutter myself, I nodded politely listening to what amounted to nonsense and waited about 35 minutes for him to finish.
They are also beyond condescending in their email responses.
Just want to add to this thread that I have had very similar treatment in brycelands. Found them pushy, condescending and treated me like I was an imbecile that required an education when asking questions about certain items of clothing.
I’m a 50 year old man that has more than one interest! Think the chaps working in there are a little high off their own supply.
To offer another defence of Brycelands, I have always had very pleasant experiences in their shop. Both Ben and Andre have been friendly and genuinely happy to help. They’ve both offered their time freely without any whiff of pushing for a sale. I even took my very muddy buggy in their last time and they were incredibly accommodating.
I found the shop intimidating when I first visited. It is a small space, and the clothing has a fairly unique aesthetic, with fits and details that can be different to pieces you’ve tried on in the past. However, if you settle in, I’ve found the staff to be great.
I haven’t dealt with either Rubato or Brycelands, so don’t have any experience of either. The examples I quoted were both UK-based. I won’t name them because it would be unfair to “name and shame” on the basis of my experience alone (the validity of a sample size of one etc), while others might have different, more positive experiences. My negative experiences and the positive experiences of others might be equally valid (and I’m sure that the experiences quoted by other readers are). What that might indicate, however, is that for some brands, it’s consistency of service that is the issue. The positive examples I quoted have all provided me with consistently good service over a number of years, so it’s not just a few good experiences, it’s the consistency of those experiences, suggesting that courtesy, valuing the customer and a concern for quality are characteristic of the culture of the brands. That’s something that I value greatly.
I don’t quite understand – why is it alright to name a brand you had a positive experience with (sample size of one), but not one you had a negative experience with (also sample size of one)? These are customer-facing businesses, and they need to be ok with customers complaining. Describing a negative encounter doesn’t have to be rude, and that kind of feedback is also valuable to a brand.
Did a decade in telephone support over various industries; haven’t talked to many customers in the nearly two decades since leaving it but have occasionally listened into calls etc with clients that still heavily rely on telephone services.
I’m not sure we’ve got worse, I’ve heard worse since not being on the phones but then I am a middle class male with a middle class English accent and so wasnt subjected to misogynistic or racist comments that I’ve heard other operators having to put up with. “I want to speak to someone in England”, says the caller to our Leeds based call handler who’s 2nd generation British born but has an accent from her Indian descent/community. In some cases my teenage self was rolled out to take over a call from a manager simply because I sounded like I had authority.
Expectation management is key to me, I was shocked a few years ago when Drakes said it’d take up to 5 days to ship (going from memory) but it was clear and upfront on the order page so I could make my decision to go elsewhere based on my more urgent need. Luxire with their constant promise of 3 days to ship are undoubtedly facing chasers all the rime from irate customers for having failed to meet the timescales. “Business days” or “working days” infuriate customers too, in the increasingly 24/7 society their meaning is changing; we’ve even had to change the definitions in contracts as it used to talk about days in which banks in London are typically open.
I dont like shopping in person for clothing, I get self conscious, I dont find the engagement with staff in many of the shops listed here as pleasant, Blackhorse Lane are generally an exception. I dont like small changing rooms with bright lights, I always get too hot. A good online site for me is key, filters shouldn’t be fiddly and should allow fine selection based on a range of attributes.
Out of curiosity, how do employers like the ones we are talking about here value their serving staff? Certainly in designer luxury stores they are on a similar just above minimum wage as their peers in supermarkets or mass market stores though commissions take them a bit above. Probably more opportunity in large multi-nationals though than small brands.
Having worked at one pretty mainstream chain menswear store, and turned down a disappointing offer from a higher end spot (on the promise of potentially high commission), it does indeed seem the way that the staff are barely paid more than some supermarket staff, and in some cases it might even be less. Now, I’m not saying that supermarket staff deserve to be paid less, having seen how hard they can work. But I don’t think the companies offering minimum wage to staff tasked with selling shoes for 500 quid and up quite appreciate what the customer expectation is going to be walking in, nor how lucky they are to get away with taking advantage of passionate employees.
Service staff most certainly should be paid more, in basically all sectors. But where’s that coming from? Are we going to start valuing that service more as a cost, or are we going to lie and pretend that managers and other higher-ups will take a dock in pay, at least in the larger companies where there’s even a salary large enough to cut?
Well put Zach. People can’t want shop staff to be paid more, but then always look for the cheapest online version of something
There’s a couple of shops near me (Black’s in Newcastle under Lyme, Woods in Cheadle) where the service is excellent. You can have a good chat on what you are looking for and thinking about and there’s no problem if they can’t make a sale that day as they know you will be back due to the customer service.
A very insightful and reflective article, Simon, thank you.
I have to say, I tend to buy the majority of my clothing online but always enjoy visiting a physical store, particularly for the advice with items like jeans. BLA and Rivet & Hide have been real standouts and it is imperative to have expert advice when purchasing raw, selvedge denim.
It’s easy to forget there are still humans at the end of a service email but that’s certainly never an excuse to act badly!
The flipside is that the business models and supply chains of big modern companies have trained people to expect clothes cheap, delivered quickly, and easily returnable. Unless you do a small operation really well, scaling and meeting the supply standards set by multinationals seems like the only way to survive. Many people don’t (or don’t know that they can) expect more from their clothes than a) convenience and b) making them look good for as reasonable a price as possible. I often have friends raise eyebrows at the amount I’m willing to spend on a pair of trousers, and especially nowadays with much of the country struggling with how expensive things are getting, I understand why they wouldn’t increase their clothing budget.
However, if most people won’t pay for better service, it will remain a niche benefit for those that do! good service costs money (and so it should!) to keep skilled people in the industry. Many more good shop workers deserve a raise than don’t, in my experience – it certainly isn’t a lucrative avenue for most!
I felt like there was a material analysis straining to get out of the article, but I fear pontification on the value-form is better suited to other blogs…
Just a thought, but I think the rise in maddeningly unhelpful chatbot support is directly linked to the de-valuing of customer service.
Having done my time in the industry, I can safely say that service staff are litetally treated like drones by both their managers and the majority of customers. In this environment, why not replace people with the cheapest possible alternative
On the positive side, I must say that menswear seems to be outside the norm as an industry where I hear people praising not just the designers and craftsmen behind a brand, but also the staff in their shops and web support.
We’re by no means perfect but I believe that 95% of emails that are nice would be a lot lower in most other industries.
Its an imperfect, impermanent, incomplete world. Nothing can in fact be perfect because all things are in action and, ‘incomplete’. The best we can hope for is a perfect imperfect moment or thing but whatever it is, it will pass. Live in the moment, don’t take things personally, don’t allow others mood or rudeness affect your mood, or knock your zen out of balance. Its only your own ego that is affected and if you can live without ego (and you can) then other people cannot ruffle your feathers, your world is your world, be at peace with yourself and don’t allow others to affect you. My life is full, rich and varied why would I ever allow a shop assistant to bother me (apologies to shop assistants, I mean no slight by this). Remember, live in the moment, accept the world as it presents itself and let go of ego.
Shops and service ?
I’ve never understood what is this thing ‘service’ that we should pay for . I think this is largely because I grew up in an era when ‘ service’ stopped.
The very best shops I’ve been to with wonderful service are those where you exchange a chat and never buy anything.
Too often ‘salespeople’ don’t offer a service but an unwelcome hovering around wishing you’d just “buy the damn thing”.
Shoe shops in particular might have once offered a service whilst now they can’t even be bothered to measure your feet proclaiming “don’t get fixated with the number” which I view as “we don’t have a 1/2 size just buy the possibly ill-fitted whole size !”
I think common courtesy and civility should apply in all walks of life, and therefore do not see a link to the world of tailoring as being more pertinent than elsewhere.
The worst combination of character traits, in my view, are arrogance and ignorance.
How true. Words to remember.
I worked for a little over eight years in luxury retail and by-appointment. It certainly does introduce you to all aspects of human nature. For five of those years I worked in a particularly aggressive sales environment and it certainly altered my demeanor. I am glad I got out of that field. There were, however, great experiences and friendships that I formed with clients that I keep to this day. The funny thing is that in a boutique setting I found that a surprising number of the patrons and I had a lot in common. It shouldn’t really be a surprise, similar minds and similar tastes bring people together. So I believe that a great shopping experience should come from the ability to connect with the person helping you. One of the trickiest parts of the retail/customer experience though is providing the service without trying to push an upsell. The shops that I go out of my way to visit have never tried to upsell, the staff just tries to connect. Inevitably I do always end up buying something, but even if it’s just a book, the warm welcoming feeling from the staff always a good shop feel like second home.
I always find the maxim mentioned at the start of article rather comical. As if a great detective has observed someone being rude to another and deduced from this fact that they must be a rude? Ingenious!
I think it’s more the fact that unkind people can appear kind and lovely to those on their level, but their weakness is often those that serve them because it reveals how superior they actually think they are.
I can only agree, Simon.
For me, it even goes one step further. People who are rude to others who they see as “inferior” in some way, be that waiters or juniors in their company, are generally not decent, and not decent people are generally not trustworthy.
One point I would make about this is the unexploited opportunity that exists to personalise and upgrade the e-commerce relationship. Upscale brands like PS could transcend the transactional and add enormous value to their customer relationships at relatively little or no cost.
Over the years I’ve made a significant number of purchases from PS and must have well passed the £10000 mark some time ago – yet no attempt has ever been made to personalise or broaden that relationship.
Conversely brands like Anglo Italian, Anderson & Sheppard and Private White have.
Does it make a difference? I think so.
Hi David
Thank you. Hopefully conversations like this in comments broaden the relationship and are something other brands don’t usually do.
What personalisation of the shop side would you like to see though?
While slightly off point, would it be possible to make the Instagram stories at the bottom of the page viewable to the end please? I have no intention of joining Instagram, but would like to be able to enjoy the videos.
I’m not sure that’s possible I’m afraid Alexander, but I’ll have a look
One catches more flies with honey.
To be fair, though, there are times when honey ain’t what’s called for. And if someone decides to run over you repeatedly, intentionally or not, it’s worth standing up for yourself.
I can really recommend Hans Allde in Stockholm. So nice and good service.
The thing that gives me hope is that there are brands opening new bricks-and-mortar locations, suggesting that it’s worth their while.
That and the fact that there are shops just delivering great experiences because they sell good products and their people believe in them. I went to Son of a Stag recently to get a pair of Full Counts, they didn’t have the pair I wanted in my size, but the staff member gave me a personal recommendation (thanks Kieran) – which I absolutely love and wouldn’t have chosen if I hadn’t seen them in person.
Good mention. Son of a Stag are incredibly switched on – great staff who are all very clearly bang into what they’re selling, and know a lot about it. They’d be happy for you to browse all day without buying anything because – yes – when you finally do buy something it costs a fair bit. That’s the deal.
Twenty years ago I worked in a hat shop. I loved talking to the customers—I find talking to strangers immensely satisfying—and rarely had bad experiences with them. How hard is it to be friendly? I try to treat everyone the way I’d like to be treated myself. On one occasion, however, a customer came in determined to start an argument with me. Nothing I could say or do would dissuade him. As I stood there trying to figure out where I went wrong, with my hand resting on a shelf, he took his walking cane and hung it on my forearm—like I was a piece of furniture. Most people would describe me as nice, and I believe I am. Unfortunately, I have a shorter fuse than anyone I ever met in life. I handed him back his cane, and told him to leave the store before I knocked him out. He was startled, as most people would be, but this was different. It was like he was desperately trying to wake up from something, and that’s when I first noticed he was high on something. I don’t know why I hadn’t noticed it before; it was so obvious. Instantly I regretted what I said, and tried to get him to stay, but the only thing he wanted was to put as much distance as possible between himself and the crazy hat-man.
I think this is a world where everyone could use a bit more restraint.
Completely agree with this sentiment, I have been saying a similar thing about restaurants for years. Most of my best meals and the restaurants I tend to return to are usually because of staff as much as the food.
The experience of the staff makes a massive difference and adds to the experience and therefore personally I don’t mind it adding to the cost. For example, I would rather buy a pair of Levi’s jeans from a Levi’s store with knowledgeable staff than a department store, even if the department staple was cheaper.
I do however think staff could do more in some stores to improve the in store experience and make it less intimidating or pushy. Although it’s understandable if they are commission incentivised. The shops already mentioned manage it so there is a lot other could learn from them, be friendly, helpful and don’t forget about the after sales experience which I think so many do.
I actually think the role of physical stores needs rethinking, people’s shopping behaviour has changed with the internet and stores could do more to adapt. Making the trying on experience much better and syncing the online-offline experience, accepting that a lot of people will prefer to look and try on in person and buy online.
I also think more pop up stores for mostly online retailers would be great to help customer view, feel and try clothes on before buying online.
I like the hand written notes and tote bags that come from the anthology and Nomanwalks alone even though I live too far away to ever visit them in person.
As you mention No Man Walks Alone. Unfortunately they have closed their E.U. business.
I must compliment Sam in the Buck Mason store in Prudential Center in Boston, a city not know for easy affability. I was aware of the brand, but have not purchased anything from them yet. I saw the very attractive store front as I passed by on my way to a meeting. I stopped in, and Sam greeted me. He took time to discern how I heard of them, and what my interests in menswear are. We had an in depth discussion without pressure. It was a genuine pleasure to deal with a very knowledgeable staff member. I had to leave for my meeting, but I will be back. This type of interaction cannot happen on line. I see and touch the product, and they see me (I get the better end of this.).
Do unto others…
Hi Simon
I tried on a pair of calf belgravia’s (lined) in size 8
They fit me well
If I were to get an unlined suede pair should get the same size and width or should I size down?
What are your thoughts
I think you’ll find they will stretch a little bit, but not much if they’re not tight on you already. Personally I’d go with the same size, that’s what I’ve done and it’s been fine
I always worry there’s a self reinforcing aspect to this – if someone treats you rudely and unreasonably, politeness gets you through the encounter, but to get through it repeatedly, you have to develop a bit of detachment. That level of detachment isn’t likely to be conducive to you providing great service to everyone, or being a fair and reasonable customer. In this way, unreasonable, rude and even abusive customers increase the proportion of disinterested and unhelpful customer service providers.
When you start to factor in pricing to the discussion, there’s another saying that comes to mind – somebody who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
This might be an interesting series to do – where you interview the sales staff behind the counter and get their read on what customers are looking for, struggling with, need extra guidance on etc.. The very few occurrences I had with a challenging customer at The Armoury all stem from a preexisting anxiety/insecurity of the customer. “Oh, the customer isn’t really mad at us or the product, he is just upset at some offhand remark his parent/partner/friend made 20 years ago that made him feel deeply insecure.”
Interesting idea, I like it, thank you!
“Good staff are wonderful and should be valued.”
I do think this point needs to be taught to the younger crowd (how’s that for an old man rant, (though I’m *only* in my 50s) What I mean, is that if you stumble across especially good service at any kind of restaurant, clothing shop, etc., make a pronounced mental note to frequent that place, so as to reward them — as ever small as your regular purchases may be — with your patronage.
Forgive me Simon for mentioning two places that have zero to do with clothing, but stick with the theme of good service — and I believe, stick with the theme of appreciating heritage, tradition and so on:
Two Boston area shout outs: I’ve received nothing but friendly, helpful service over the years from two area tobacconists — both shops dating back to the 1800s, which is a long, long time ago by American standards — Leavitt & Peirce in Harvard Sq. and L J Peretti Co. off The Boston Common. The staff, by the way, in both establishments, are nearly always dressed well.
Indeed, choosing to frequent or give custom to a particular business is a vote, and we should vote for what we believe in and what we don’t want to lose. The idea of automatically going for the cheapest option for the one and only reason that it costs less money is a pretty dismal attitude in my opinion. (I’m talking here about things pertaining to PS readers by the way, and not wider more political issues like people not being able to afford a weekly food shop, which is a separate matter entirely.)
Personal recommendations for PS Shop, Mes Chausettes Rouges as well as Kamakura shirts and Mooncastle in Japan. Absolutely first rate service in all and Lucas’s emails are always polite, helpful and to the point.
Someone else has mentioned MCR’s handwritten notes as well as the perfumed bags but I’d like pass on my experience in their Lyon shop last month.
I have forgotten all my O level French so I was treated absolutely impeccably in English by the young lady in the shop. I bought things for myself as well as presents for the family and all were carefully hand wrapped, given just that touch of fragrance and I was able to add my own handwritten notes on each of the presents.
We’ve talked of late about the cost and necessity of high quality long socks but with service like that there seems to be an additional justification for them.
btw–this is totally wrong–“but the role of service staff has become one where the staff are always expected to say ‘yes sir, no sir’, like a robot, merely letting the customer rant.” customer service both high and low has devolved owing to the gen-z effect on the workforce, tech’s dis-intermediation of the human element and the continued slide of the culture to oblivion.
I have to shout out Anglo-Italian in particular, although I think in London we are blessed with some excellent retailers – I love Drakes, absolutely love that store. But I think honestly, Anglo-Italian, what Jake and the exceptional team are doing there – it’s just fantastic. I don’t have enough superlatives. Exceptional service. I’m excited to try some of the others in this list, but I cannot imagine they will be beat
As a person living in a sartorial backwater with close to zero stores worth going into, I’m envious of the London or NYC based readers. Cherish all these places with great staff!
I totally echo your wife simon in saying that being a waiter for 3 years has made me a hell of a lot nicer to waiters.
High prices feel daunting for me, but if there’s a reason then that’s wort it
I completely agree with this. Knowledgeable and helpful staff make a huge difference. They act as guides, even remotely. My dealings with for example, Anglo Italian, Crockett & Jones, Blackhorse Lane, Rivet and Hide, Trunk, and Anderson & Sheppard have been more pleasurable and satisfying as a result. Our expectations have been made higher by our relentless technology, but good, old-fashioned service is something to cherish these days.