The Armoury offers one of the best, and certainly widest, ranges of MTM tailoring around, but it can be a little confusing.
Five years ago, I wrote an article setting out the models in New York and what I thought about them. Given that was popular, and a fair bit has changed since then, I took the opportunity of being in New York recently to try them on again.
This is the current list, what I’ve had and what I recommend.
Padded jackets: Model 1 and 101
There are two quality levels of MTM tailoring, the one made by Ring Jacket in Japan and the Hundred Series made in Italy.
Both have a machine-padded chest, which separates them from perhaps the highest level of MTM, but have a lot of other handwork. The Ring Jacket series has a hand-attached collar and sleeves, which for me is the first level of well-made MTM tailoring. The Hundred Series adds some hand-sewn seams as well as lots of hand-sewn finishing - buttons, tacks, buttonholes.
I reviewed the 101 style in the Hundred Series after that original article, and was very impressed. It’s not cheap ($3600 for an MTM suit today) but was one of the best MTM experiences I’ve had. That’s it above, and you can read the full review here.
Unpadded jackets: Model 3 and 103
The other major style is the 103, which is softer, unpadded and more casual. It has only canvas in the shoulder, a lower buttoning point and more open quarters (the front edge below the waist button).
That’s it above and at top, and it’s what I decided to have made this time, to cover separately. It is Neapolitan in feel, but as I said in the first article, also has an extended shoulder and a little drape in the chest, which make it that much smarter.
In fact, in that original article I was talking about the Model 3, and one thing I never quite clocked about the Armoury suits was that the numbers reflect the same styles. So a Model 1 and a Model 3 from Ring Jacket are the same style as a 101 and the 103 in the Hundred Series - just a higher level of make. Though only the ones above, not the next few, have a higher make version.
Model 15
The next style I tried was Model 15, above. This is in some ways a mix of 1 and 3, but more specifically a direct take on Florentine style, with its angled side dart and round sweep from lapel into open quarters.
It’s the one to go for if you particularly like Florentine jackets - otherwise you might prefer Model 1/101 or Model 3/103. With these Ring Jacket styles, by the way, note that they’re a bit cheaper (an MTM suit starts at $3150) and are available MTO as well (just picking the fabric and details) from $2750.
A change from the first article is also that Ring Jacket styles are now available made-to-measure all the time in store, for repeat customers. Back then you always had to wait for an RJ trunk show, which was rather limiting, but now the Armoury staff have been trained to do the MTM themselves.
Model 12
An unusual style introduced recently. Very similar to Model 3 but with a slightly workwear feel. It has triple patch pockets, machine stitching on the seams and a one-piece back. Elements were specifically taken from 1930s work jackets.
It’s designed to be more casual than the Model 3 and to work better with more casual trousers, but I’d be interested in seeing it in a more casual material than the oatmeal above, such as a heavy tweed. As in this material I’d always prefer the Model 3.
The other more casual jacket style, Model 7 described in the original article, has been discontinued.
Double-breasteds (6 and 16)
In the first piece I talked about Model 6, which is a double-breasted version of Model 3. I really liked the lapel shape and the peak, just wasn’t so keen on the pick stitching. That’s it in navy above.
This time I tried a new style, Model 16, which is a double-breasted version of that workwear-like Model 12 above. It has a lower, more horizontal lapel, with the same one-piece back and dartless front. I can definitely see the appeal of this style, but on balance would probably go for the 6.
Model 11
OK, try and get past that pattern. Kind of shade your eyes and try to look at the cut instead.
This is the Armoury’s Ivy-inspired style, and I covered in the original piece in a more sombre colour. As I said then, this high-fastening small-lapelled cut is not really me, but I’m always surprised how much I like it despite that - perhaps because it’s a modern interpretation of the sack suit rather than a straight copy.
Dinner jackets
Last of all, The Armoury recently introduced this shawl-collar dinner jacket based on the 103. In the Hundred Series quality, therefore, with a nice shawl collar and a 4x1 buttoning. It’s made in a Dupioni silk from Zegna, which is lovely.
I like a shawl collar a little wider, and I might be alone in preferring it without a buttonhole (it always seems to interrupt the nice shape, and I never wear a flower) but the style did work really well. Soft, being the 103 style, but still with enough sharpness for eveningwear.
The only model not pictured here is the Model 4, which is a peak lapel and usually used for other dinner jackets. You can see examples here.
I should say that all the pieces I’m trying on here are available ready-to-wear. Not many of them are left in this dinner jacket apparently, but the point of the Armoury range is to have things available to try on - and then be altered, MTO or MTM. I know some readers will find that rather easier and more appealing than bespoke trunk shows.
For my Model 103 commission I went with CashCo material from Zegna. I wouldn’t have done so (as I’d worry about how the mix would drape and wear) if I hadn’t seen it made up already elsewhere.
That’s also why I went with the pale taupe colour - I wouldn’t have been sure how that would look at scale. Fortunately the button choice (tan corozo) was easier.
I’ll cover that later in the year. Made to measure and made to order will be a bit of a focus for that period - instalments coming on Bryceland’s, The Anthology, Jake’s and Gaziano & Girling, alongside The Armoury.
Price breakdown:
The Armoury by Ring Jacket:
- RTW suit starting at $1600, jacket at $1200
- MTO suit starting at $2750, jacket at $1950
- MTM suit starting at $3150, jacket at $2150
The Armoury Hundred Series
- RTW suit starting at $3500, jacket at $2900
- MTM suit starting at $3600, jacket at $3200
Model numbers are 3, 4, 6, 11, 12, 15 and 16. Letters A (flat front) or B (single pleat) refer to the trouser style, when it’s a suit rather than a jacket.
Lead times are 8-10 weeks for the Hundred Series, three months for the others. A full breakdown of the Ring Jacket models is available on the Armoury site here
Thanks to Chris Fenimore for the photography
You’re not alone Simon… I never understood the buttonhole on shawl lapels. On other types of lapels it is always parallel to the notch, while on these it looks like something thrown there, with no relation to any of the lines.
The other option is the round buttonhole designed for a flower. It works pretty well.
Hi Simon,
Good to see you channeling your inner Mad Men wearing the Model 11! Just need a gibson and you are good to go.
That’s alot to digest .
I would certainly direct your readers to Mark Cho’s excellent YouTube videos on the Armoury channel .
The outfit videos are exceptional .
Mark Cho is to sartorial matters on YouTube what PS is to blogs on the web .
I love this article, Simon! As someone who lives in Asia, The Armoury in HK has consistently been for the past dozen years the best clothes and accessories shop on this side of the pond. The stylistic choices of its offerings have in the main been characterised by good taste, and the quality, especially of items made in Japan reflect that country’s makers’ pursuit of excellence in everything they do. I see though that its prices have crept up, just like elsewhere in the world, from the time I used to more frequently peruse and buy stuff from them pre-Covid.
I can’t wait soon enough for the future write-ups you plan on MTM and MTO offerings of the shops you mentioned – these are indeed what many probably are more inclined to these days as opposed to full bespoke, given lessened occasions to suit up and the tendency to dress down a bit more. And while we realise it’s always a challenge to cover more, perhaps you could still include the best of the MTMs like Jean Manuel Moreau or Saman Amel, given the lapse of time since you covered them too?
Many thanks again!
Hey Julian,
Good point, and yes I can certainly try and cover them more.
I got my first Ring Jacket, MTM, a Model 3, after going to a trunk show this spring. It was an experiment and I couldn’t be happier. It’s just as nice as my full bespoke jackets from London. There are probably some differences, but they aren’t apparent to me. The staff at the Armoury and the two Japanese representatives were a pleasure to work with. And the lead time was much shorter than full bespoke. I had my jacket about two months after ordering it.
I really like the armoury’s more casual
Wear , do you know if they have any plans to open in the uk ( or just have a uk
Website ) ?
I don’t think there are any immediate plans, no
Hi Ian, thanks for the kind comment. Regarding the UK / Europe, sadly there are no plans to open anything. I know we have a lot of people interested in what we do in the region but I don’t have the bandwidth to cover another store. I wouldn’t feel comfortable opening a store that I cannot pay close attention to. I hope you find a chance to stop by Hong Kong or New York sometime.
Why does Armoury not do Orazio or Liverano anymore?
I don’t know actually Eric. I know Liverano has had issues, but I don’t know on Orazio. To be honest I like the fact the range is more streamlined too
And to be clear, this is only the Armoury in New York. In Hong Kong they still work with Orazio
Hi Simon thanks for this survey, I’m looking to get my first Ring Jacket MTM with The Armoury soon.
Do you know why they discontinued work with Orazio and Liverano? Do you see the Hundred Series as replacing those Italian offerings?
See above on that George.
I think they both replace them, yes. In fact you have more style options there and two price/make levels, which you didn’t have before
Thanks Simon!
Unrelatedly, I believe that only the Hundred series are MTM year-round with The Armoury staff; I think RJ MTM still requires a trunk show.
> Ring Jacket styles are now available made-to-measure all the time in store. Back then you had to wait for an RJ trunk show, which was rather limiting, but now the Armoury staff have been trained to do the MTM themselves.
Hi George,
No, that was the case in the past, but the Armoury in NY told me they now offer it themselves
I think that the hundred series is intended to be a replacement for Orazio in New York. Alan See in HK seems to prefer traditional Armoury vendors like, Salvatore Ambrosio, Liverano and Orazio – while Mark appears to have more control over the NY stores and has been willing to transition to more proprietary-ike white-label tailoring.
Nice breakdown Simon. On that note, I seem to recall a Frank Shattuck commission a while ago? How did that come to be?
For me? No, no commission there. We’ve met and I’ve tried something he was making, but that’s it
I find ‘The Armoury’ lack of presence in the U.K. deeply frustrating.
Is there a logical explanation?
I’m sure they would be welcomed with open arms.
Well, I’m sure lots of reasons. It’s interesting how sometimes these moves with brands seem logical, but internally are driven just as much by things like staff and real estate opportunities
I could be wrong, but I think Drake’s and the Armoury have some common ownership, so there would be no reason to bring in competition for Drake’s.
There is, but they are kept pretty separate, and that didn’t stop Drake’s opening in New York
Great read as always, I think the armoury’s main selling point it’s that it’s curated a great collection ,built relationships with brands and disrupted markets with their own tailoring traditions ie selling Italian and Japanese brands in Hong Kong and NYC. It would be interesting to know if you had any discussions with them as to how they curated such a collection and built such great brand relations?
I have talked to them in the past about these kinds of things, but never written anything on it. Perhaps a post at some point reflecting on it all would be nice
That does sound like a good idea and would look forward to reading it
You’re not alone regarding a buttonhole on a shawl collar dinner jacket. It doesn’t belong and it does interrupt the shape and flow of the lapel. And it just looks wrong.
Quite correct Andy. A buttonhole has no place on a shawl collar. The shawl is one long curve, so putting a straight line, at whatever angle, and in whatever position, doesn’t work. And you never wear a buttonhole on a shawl anyway. Unless you don’t know what you’re doing.
Might you consider a similar article updating a précis of Adret’s offering, Simon? Their recent social media photography is stunning and I’m intrigued for more specifics, but am unable to access the physical location any time soon. I understand the enigmatic quality cultivated by their lack of E Commerce but I’d love you to shine a light!
They wouldn’t want that Adam. In the same way that they don’t do e-commerce, they deliberately don’t share much information online either. They want people to come into the shop, or perhaps talk over the phone.
Well you’ve covered the brand a few times already, given a detailed look at their store, and reviewed a jacket, so I don’t think it’s a totally mad suggestion.
It’s not at all Robin. I just know that’s not how they work and not what they’d want
I think that attitude of Adret is pretty arrogant tbh. Having no idea of the prices when you enter the shop is plain intimidating, and is bound to put people off. I’ve never found it a relaxing place to shop (have been in three times now).
I completely get that Winot, and I wish things like prices were clearer too.
And also one of the worst website designs I’ve ever seen. Get rid of the gimmicky animations. I still don’t know how to see the clothes themselves. Bizarre. Their copywriting on social media is very weird also. Very self aggrandising.
I agree to this. They should at least disclose their price somewhere to save both customers and their time. I went there and tried their linen jackets without knowing the price but after I was told that the jacket cost £3.5-4k I was utterly shocked and had to runaway…
I would second this request.
Even though I have visited the physical shop (twice), I tried on so many things that it became difficult to then remember what I had liked and disliked. With the overall result of not eventually buying anything, despite liking several things that I did try on, because there was no online resource to look at and reflect on after going to the physical shop.
Nice shirt your wearing in these photos — any details on that would be appreciated
Scott
Yes, it is nice. A cotton/silk mix from Sictess, made bespoke by D’Avino
Simon-
Does the model 15 fit slimmer than the 3? In the photo’s, it seems to have less drape in the chest.
They have the same fullness through the chest, although the 15 is slightly larger in the waist, to balance out the further extended shoulder.
Great update Simon. How do you think the Armoury RTW Model 3 compares to this Sid Mashburn? Which one would you recommend?
https://shopmashburn.com/collections/sid-mashburn-suits-tuxedos/products/sid-mashburn-kincaid-no-3-suit-navy-high-twist-s37683
I think it’s a good example of how the Armoury is good in its fits. That Sid Mashburn looks shorter and with a higher buttoning point. I’d certainly recommend the Armoury over it
Wonderful write up, Simon. Looking forward to the future MTM MTO installments!
Was wondering: given the HK coverage with The Anthology and The Armoury, do you plan on covering Prologue? I understand they’re at a lower price point, so perhaps that distinguishes them from the line up. Regardless, if you’re open to it, would love to read that as well.
I have covered them in the past Elan – have a search on the site.
My biggest concern with Prologue today would be that they stopped coming for a good while, and kind of dropped off the map. It’s hard to have confidence in a long-term relationship (future alterations, repairs, building a good pattern for the future etc) when that happens
Based on a review I had seen here on PS I dropped into the Armoury at the Pedder in Hong Kong as I was passing through the city. I was eager to commission something as I knew I had 3-4 business trips to Hong Kong upcoming that would allow me to do the fittings. Mark Cho himself was actually there himself when I visited the shop. To my surprise he and the sales staff were totally disinterested in me as I browsed the shelves. The store was empty also which created the feeling of standing in an elevator with someone for too long without speaking.
Eventually I spoke to Mark because I approached him and remarked that I enjoyed some of his YouTube videos but he quickly passed me off to a sales associate who had very poor knowledge of their own convoluted system. I kept reiterating that I wanted a MTM suit but I kept being diverted back to off the rack options. I just got the feeling they wanted me to buy something then and there on the spot. It was hugely disappointing.
I do wonder if you factor into your reviews that they would be presenting their best selves to you because of your influence in the industry. Your experience is unlikely to be similar to a regular customer. Anyhow, after 15 minutes of confused model 3, 1, 7, 11, 4 babble. My wife and I nodded towards the entrance and left. I was the easiest money to be had that day. Basically begging them to take my order. Customer service goes a long way.
So sorry to hear that David.
I certainly do bear that in mind, and it comes up fairly often. But my coverage is always based on both my experiences and those of friends and readers. Readers like yourself also always add their own experiences in the comments, which is very useful in giving a broad perspective
Hi David, thanks for posting about your experience at the store, I am sorry we fell so short of expectations, it sounds like a poor showing on our part. If you’re still interested in coming back to the store, please feel free to make an appointment with [email protected] and we will make sure to accomodate you with some prior preparation. Also, if it’s no too much trouble, I’d like to know what date you stopped by so I can see who was on duty at the time and try to improve our service. I apologize for not being available personally for an order on the day. Given my schedule, I cannot ensure that I will be abe to follow up myself, especially on a custom order, which is why I usually hand-off to one of my colleagues. If we’re no longer suitable for you, no hard feelings and apologies once again for the poor experience.
What a splendid response!
Did not expect to see you reply here directly Mark but I do appreciate it.
Yes, I did get the impression that you were preoccupied with something when I spoke to you. I imagine you are always busy as the owner of a few businesses and not always in a position to act as a retail assistant to customers. That was not what bothered me.
My line of work is not so important in this context, but I have been the creative director of a large Conde Nast title in New York for many years, and now occupy a more senior role for Conde in London. Despite this comment section being anonymous I sort of cringe to write that. I don’t say it like it should have gravity. I say it because I am more familiar with your business than most – and at risk of ‘doxing’ myself we have given flattering coverage to Drakes during my tenure.
That being said, I don’t walk into retail locations announcing this, which would be embarrassing and unwarranted and kind of vulgar. I seek out the same service and value as everyone else.
What you, Simon, Derek Guy, and others, have done for this corner of the menswear industry is important. Tailoring has been largely opaque to most people, including myself. You have engendered a groundswell of interest in learning more about suits and blazers etc. It is an education that I presume has been beneficial to all tailors and adjacent services. That must be applauded.
In honesty, given my position working in fashion, I felt a bit stupid for not having understood the basic fundamentals of it sooner. But once you see the information and accept it to be true, you can’t really go back. You feel compelled to incorporate it into your life because, frankly, wearing anything that doesn’t fit you properly feels wrong.
That was me. Wincing at images of myself at important industry events past, working as someone that is supposed to be professionally familiar with clothing in all its variants, but not fully understanding the nuance of tailoring.
So, back to my visit to the Armoury. I decided to methodically upgrade my wardrobe to reflect this new knowledge. My first instinct was to trust the people dispensing the advice. Simon and Derek don’t sell a tailoring service, but Mark does. I’ll go there. That was my logic.
For a design geek like me, walking into the pedder arcade space was really exciting. It’s the vitsoe shelves and the beautiful overhead canopy lighting and the carpentry with curves. It instills confidence. OK, this is someone who is as fastidious about design as I am. Whatever they are producing, I want it. I see the taste level, I trust this.
The issue, as I mentioned in my first comment, is that the sales rep I spoke to after you seemed as confused as I was about the variants on your tailoring and a bit apathetic about taking my MTM order. I am reticent to speak about the date I was there as I don’t want to affect anyones employment on a 15 minute interaction. But I probably understated it in my first comment. I’d go as far as saying the service was terrible.
There’s every chance that I might have been an anomaly. But to conclude this long reply (that I am writing on my phone from an airport lounge), the experience of having something made should be less daunting (if it is to be accessible). And certainly less confusing. Spending 3-5k or more on an item of clothing is a huge investment for most people. You want whatever you’re buying to be the best thing for you. It needs a level of guidance that doesn’t apply to other garments. It’s none of my concern but you might consider refining the numbering system into something easier to understand.
Also, you are courteous to offer a follow up but I ended up having some wonderful things tailored from other companies in London and Hong Kong. I used a lot of the vocabulary to communicate with these tailors that I learnt from you and Simon. You seem to be an erudite and attentive person and I wish the Armoury all the best. Your YouTube videos remain brilliant and informative. Thanks Mark.
Thanks for the background info, appreciate the care you took with Drake’s as well. I only ask the information regarding the visit to see what we could have done better. Short of something criminal, outrageous or a pattern of errors, I would never let someone go simply because they performed poorly on a single occasion. The team and I would study what went wrong and see how we could improve.
Anyway, hope you found other good things in Hong Kong. Other than The Armoury, my must-sees in Hong Kong would be WW Chan and Ascot Chang so I hope you managed to visit them as well. Safe travels.
For what it’s worth: I’ve only had good experiences at the Armoury’s New York stores and I am neither an industry type (I mean that in a good way, Simon) nor was I purchasing for high amounts.
Something that has come up a lot regarding the HK store(s), isn’t it?
Such a shame, I enjoyed my time in the NY stores a lot.
I’ve always been impressed by the Armoury, their YouTube videos are excellent, and they seem passionate.
It’s a shame the have no Uk presence.
Nice sum up or their jackets though👍🏻
I was stationed in New York for work a couple of years ago and really enjoyed the staff there and the Ring Jackets selection. Since moving back to Europe I have been doing MTO from Husbands Paris and Kigget Clothing. Look forward to the coming mto articles.
Helpful. Thank you
I like what they do.
Unconvinced. In many of the photos above you look like you’re straining as you look at the mirror. Come on, have fun – you can afford to. How do these jackets look when you’re enjoying yourself or walking round town or meeting friends?
Based on the photos you’ve provided, these jackets seem all to accentuate your sloping shoulders. As I have the same issue, I’ll avoid The Armoury like the plague – in spite of rather liking the style on men who have different figures to you and I. Therefore, the article has served a purpose for me at least.
Finally, the cost is absurd. The Armoury ‘Hundred Series’ MTM is only a thousand or two cheaper than a bespoke suit cut on Savile Row (but hand-sewn elsewhere).
I wonder whether the style is at all suited to you and I. The little fellow behind you when you’re trying on the white dinner jacket probably gets away with it better. Isn’t this whole way of tailoring better focused on shorter men (and I know you’re not hugely tall – but perhaps, still, too tall for this)?
Thanks for the opinions on my facial expressions John!
On the more substantial points, the unpadded ones certainly don’t do anything to square my sloping shoulders, and overall the wider shoulders accentuate that a little as well. I don’t mind it though, and I’d rather have that width myself.
It’s a bit silly to say the cost is absurd. It’s not. You’re simply paying for different things than elsewhere, including where it is made and the volume and variation to try on, which I know many find hard with bespoke, plus the style that is often lacking with bespoke tailors. The same make is also offered elsewhere by designer brands for 50% more again.
I don’t think it works better on shorter men, no
I’m going to demur on a few points.
I think the soft shoulders do work better on shorter men. They typically have squarer shoulders (whether narrow or broad). Fred Astaire looked fantastic in the drape cut. Cary Grant looked far better with pads on his shoulders. I also think you need height for the shoulder pads – once they’ve gone up, the tailors have to have distance to pull down and in and out to keep the thing looking fluid. (This, perhaps, is a reason for preferring jackets to be long.)
I remain convinced that I (and probably you, and probably most people above 5’10” or so – though I’m a good few inches taller) do want some structuring around the shoulders if they can get away with it. I suspect that structuring is unfashionable now only because of RTW. If the pads aren’t in exactly the right places and at the right angle they look weird. They jut out at strange angles. They make one shoulder look higher than the other. They look fussy and move in different ways to your body. That’s not an issue with (good) bespoke tailoring.
I’m utterly unconvinced that bespoke tailors lack style. Over years, and even generations, they’ve tinkered with it. A&S has a style. Huntsman. Sexton. Even Richard James… You can call their product out in the street – which shows they have a style – whether you like the style or not.
I can see that there’s a cost in holding stock. I accept that, and it was wrong to say it’s absurd – if people want to try on a lot of jackets, that has value to them. I look at a lot of cloths when I visit my tailor. Can’t really imagine how they will scale up into a jacket or a suit. But it doesn’t matter – I have a clear idea what I want when I visit him. Sillily.
My cutter (with supporting nods from the ‘senior client manager’) then talks me into something else entirely. He’s seen the cloth made up into a jacket; he has views on what will support my complexion and the other things I wear and uses his knowledge of where I wear his clothes and how I carry myself. He even suggests things I can wear it with. He shows me things – sometimes RTW – sometimes products he’s in the middle of finishing – that look superficially similar and explains why what he suggests would be better for me.
I’ve never regretted going with my cutter’s choices. I still like the first two or three things I had made, nearly a decade ago now – but at the time, as a new customer, I made the decisions – I didn’t trust him yet, and he didn’t know that I’d be willing to go with his choices. I got exactly what I wanted when I walked in. My lesson has been that my cutter doesn’t merely have style but that he understands my style – and can express it better than I do. (And wouldn’t you expect that? How would you train a stylist in an ideal world? You’d ask him to spend decades of his life looking at different men and dressing them – and then make him look at the results. You’d steep him in a culture of dressing that looks back a very long time. You’d make him design things on customers’ whims – and force him to think, after hours of work and seeing the results – how he could have done better. Maybe some cutters aren’t cut out to get the ‘style’ aspect – but if any of them are receptive, they’ve had the perfect training.)
So maybe I give a caveated agreement with one of your arguments. The cost of the Armoury ‘Hundred Series’ isn’t absurd – as you’ve argued, some people find value in trying on lots of clothes – but it is absurd that anybody should want to try on all these clothes – a proper tailor should have a style and a vision and an imagination and a sensitivity that the client can trust. How you get to that moment of trust is, I suspect, difficult (I spent a five-figure sum before I got there) – but the end result is much better and not much more expensive in the long run.
But finally, and unrelated to the above, if you insist upon wearing shirts with a few buttons undone, shave your chest hair. I did some interview training with one of the main broadcasters (or rather a few famous people who’d left one of the main broadcasters and were training me for interviews with them) a few years ago, and that was one of the few red-lines. Wear a tie or a cravat or a polo neck – but be wary of the signals you’ll give – wear a snood if you must – but nobody, they said, absolutely nobody, wants to see curly chest hairs unless you’re David Hasselhoff or Tom Selleck (and even then probably not – they showed a picture of a glossy Arnie to make the point).
Model 11 is the one you want to get! It’s a truly unique style, unlike the tons of Italian-inspired RTWs and MTMs. I have a few Model 11s in my closet.
Hi Simon sorry off-topic- looking to finish the buttons on a new blazer (NMWA x Carrara in Drapers Montecarlo brown/taupe). I have a few 3 and 4 button overlap or kissing so want to do something different without being too bold or fashiony.
1 button may look a bit flashy/bold? and likely would warrant use a larger (front proportioned) button
2 buttons perhaps a good compromise and if spaced right, could sneak a 3rd in-between for a slight overlaps if change my mind down the road. using the smaller intended sleeve buttons likely would be a safe choice. Thoughts?
To be honest I wouldn’t vary the buttons as it’s not the kind of thing you will take much pleasure in being different, I think, but is the kind of thing you could regret. Maybe one button if you really want to do something
I have entertained an Armoury RJ MTM suit for some time (was fitted at UES locale and MTM was recommended). However, with prices comparable to a Whitcomb & Shaftesbury or B&Taylor bespoke, I am having some trouble justifying the price, though I like the RJ cuts generally.
Are you able to offer any guidance here? I am sufficiently price sensitive that the idea of paying for a lower-production item has a limiting effect, though I understand (and support generally) that a brick and mortar has added operating costs that must be paid for.
But I do struggle to purchase an MTM product (especially given the inherent shortcomings) when I could spend the same amount and get a wonderful bespoke product from a featured maker whom you have reviewed admirably on multiple occasions.
Thank you for your consideration.
I know what you mean Thomas. I think it depends how much that shop and access to things to try on matters to you, and then it’s a question of style – Whitcomb for example would be smarter than pretty much anything at the Armoury
Thanks for the write-up — particular the pictures illustrating each style.
Elsewhere, you’ve written about which materials for sports coats work best with jeans, and said that you would only wear a neopolitan cut in that way, but could you discuss cuts more? For example, patch pockets, 3-in-2 buttons, all make a jacket more casual, but what about the construction? Totally soft shoulders can work, but then you get close to unconstructed garments and are no longer wearing tailored clothing. Are there some styles that are more structured, and bring some of the silhouette that proper tailoring can bring, but still work with jeans?
Hey Zanon,
One important thing here, I think, is to make clear that when we talk about styles ‘working’ with jeans, we’re talking about the everyday style that the vast majority of readers want the vast majority of the time. That’s when we talk about less structure, Neapolitan cut, other details.
But, if you want a slightly more showy look, as I’d say my evening one is here, then you can get away with more. You’re pushing more into contrast, not harmony. This is a much trickier area to define and put structured advice around.
The subtle v showy article is a good way to think about these kinds of things I think.
I also talked about this in my article on that Caraceni jacket.
Let me know if that makes sense and if a bigger article on it would be good. And if you want more specifically on your question about structures.
Thanks for this article, Simon. Being a Hong Kong native, I’ve been to The Armoury quite a few times over the years, but mostly to purchase accessories, as I still find it a bit difficult to justify buying a largely machine-made Armoury RJ MTM jacket when I can easily access the services of the likes of WW Chan (or even Prologue and The Anthology), which is just next door and, in my opinion, offers far greater value for price.
I really like the Armoury RJ style / cuts, but this alone to me does not sufficiently justify the considerable mark-up that I’ll be paying for as compared to what RJ is selling for domestically in Japan for example.
And as a side note, I do honestly feel that the level and quality of customer service at The Armoury – at least in its recently-closed Landmark Hong Kong store – has unfortunately been deteriorating. The staff now come across as being disinterested and frankly a bit snobbish; I haven’t seen or interacted with Mark Cho at the HK store before, though Alan See, on the other hand, has always been great – friendly, down-to-earth and more than willing to spend time to figure out what you really want and need.
Just my two cents. Thanks.
Thanks Charlie, always useful and interesting.
The only thing worth adding on the RJ things, I think, is that there isn’t much I’d buy from their normal line – the Armoury styles are rather better. And of course duties to most countries from Japan add something, though maybe not in HK
Hi Simon, how would you recommend and compare the RTW suits and sport coats?Especially thinking about the more standard color/fabric sets for foundational pieces: Charcoal grey suit, navy hopsack sport coat, etc. Model 3/6 primarily here compared to something like Anglo-Italian or J. Mueser (for us in NYC)?
I think both are good – more expensive than the others, certainly for the Hundred Series, but better made than both.
Thank you for this, Simon. Of the Armoury models, which model is the least structured — the one that is closest to having no canvas, and perhaps competing with Boglioli’s K-Jacket or Canali’s Kei Blazer?
None of them is really completely unstructured like that. The model 3 / 103 is as soft as you’ll find any tailored jacket, but those two examples you list fall more in the category of completely unstructured – the Armoury’s City Hunter is a more similar construction
Hi Simon, great article. I’m in the market for a double breasted shawl ivory/white dinner jacket and im curious how to find one that has the lapels as wide as you suggest. Do you have any example pictures of one that has the width that you generally like? Looking at the Armoury offering, I do feel like it’s missing some width in my own personal taste but finding adequate leads on these jackets has been an arduous task. Thanks for all your work.
Ralph Lauren Purple Label is the archetype for me
Hi Simon, What brand would you recommend for a MTM brown herringbone tweed jacket in a Neapolitan style?
It’s not straight Neapolitan, but probably Anglo-Italian, then Natalino if you want something down the price/quality spectrum
After reading this article I contacted the NY store regarding an appointment for a Model 15 MTM. I was told that I would have to come in during one of the Ring Jacket trunk shows. If I wanted a model 101 or 103, they could do the measurements in house. They would do made to orders for Ring Jacket, which requires you to fit one of their existing sizes for that model.
Hmm, thanks Joe. Let me check with them, that’s not what I was told
Hey Joe – so apparently I was misinformed and they do offer MTM for Ring but usually for repeat customers, not first-time ones. I’ll update the article to reflect that. Sorry for the confusion
Based on the usually reliable reports by Permanent Style, I visited The Armoury in Pedder Building Hong Kong, 2 weeks ago to purchase their version of the Spanish Teba. The store is lovely and they have a well curated stock. Being particular and not normally fitting well in ready made clothes, I tailor my clothes at one the oldest and best Shanhainese tailors in Hong Kong. The Shanghainese “master cutters” are considered on par with the best of Saville Row and produce truly bespoke suits and garments. The Armoury had Ascot Cheng representatives present for their Sat Trunk Show and I ordered a jacket which they strongly recommended be “made to measure” i.e. they take a ready made jacket and make alterations to fit the client. The cost for this was equivalent to US$1,384 versus $1,200 for the ready made Teba. This is a fair price and I asked to have a bespoke safari jacket made to be started once this initial order was complete. They asked for full payment for the Teba which I happily complied with. 2 weeks have past and they are unable to give me a date for fitting; in the context of Hong Kong tailoring, this is excessively long to wait and well below the standards expected. Phone calls to the manager Sam take days to be returned and there is general apathy amongst staff. As a well versed gentleman in matters sartorial, my opinion is The Armoury is good only for those who buy and wear “off the rack”. I have requested a refund and cancellation of my order as my own tailors can Crete the same jacket in even better fabric at a slightly lower cost. A disappointing experience and Permanent Style should kindly take note.
Hi Simon,
Would love to know what trousers you’re wearing here. Thanks!
Hey David,
If I remember correctly, those were my charbrown flannels from Fox, made bespoke by Whitcomb & Shaftesbury