The Armoury 101 made-to-measure suit: Review
With the continuing aim of covering more made-to-measure, I was keen to feature The Armoury’s tailoring on PS - both because I like the style, and because frankly there is little at their level in New York or Hong Kong.
New York has lots of visiting tailors, and lots of cheaper brands and online services, but there are few places I can recommend to a reader for both good product and good advice.
I did that twice with consultancy services in recent months, and it’s easy to forget how rare such great shops still are – particularly if you spend most of your time online.
This feature was well-timed because last year The Armoury expanded their MTM offering to include a new range – the ‘100 series’.
It is significant, because you can be measured for this range by the Armoury's staff. This is a growing trend: previously, the only MTM you could be measured fo by the staff was the Orazio Luciano, with Ring Jacket requiring a trunk show - even for styles designed by The Armoury.
But now there is the 101 as well, and even Ring Jacket might become accessible this way soon. It will be a significant expansion of the MTM offering.
The hundred series has just the one model at the moment, the 101.
It is intended to be the smartest, most formal option in the shop, and as a result has a defined shoulder with a (thin) pad, a slightly higher buttoning point and a very straight lapel.
The most notable despite aspect of the style, though, is probably the slightly deeper gorge.
“We experimented with lapel shapes and buttoning points for a while, and particularly liked this bigger, squarer notch,” says Armoury co-founder Mark Cho. “It’s a little inspired by the French, and I think goes well with the other formal aspects of the 101.”
The formality is relative though. The jacket still has very light canvas, there is minimal roping at the top of the sleeve, and the fronts below the waist button are fairly open.
It’s smarter than the other Armoury/Ring models - and certainly than Orazio - but still a long way from Savile Row.
I chose an Irish linen: Dugdale Lisburn 7414, 340g. I think the crispness of the linen suits the cut, even though it’s clearly not a business suit.
The suit arrived fully made. Still lots of potential for alteration of course, but this is not something coming out of a bespoke workshop, designed for fitting stages. It’s more a standard MTM process.
Fortunately, few changes were needed to the jacket. It fit very well out of the box.
The adaptation to my sloping shoulders was very good. Not perfect – there’s a little wrinkle there on either side of the chest – but still impressive. And it hugged the back of my neck well.
It was a little big in the waist, but that’s simple to change. And the sleeves came unfinished, in order to put the length on at the fitting.
There was clearly an error with a number entered for the trousers, however, because they were a couple of inches too big in the waist, and the leg line suggested they were a size too big too. But both were corrected at the fitting.
This is often the way with good MTM: hard things can be done well, with subtle changes to posture and to shoulder height. But one wrong number in a size column, and something obvious gets thrown off.
After the alterations – basically, one fitting – the suit was great. As you see it here.
There are small things I might tweak later, such as the sleeve and leg now being on the slim side. And it’s not a bespoke product – it doesn’t have that shaped armhole and three-dimensional make (something I’ll go into in more detail later). But overall very nice MTM.
One aspect that was impressive - and interesting - was the make. I think it might be the cleanest precise MTM I’ve seen at this level.
Often when rating MTM tailoring, we highlight whether it has a hand-padded collar or lapel. This makes sense, as they’re practical techniques drawn from bespoke tailoring and are a rarity in MTM. (See Orazio and Saman Amel.)
This Armoury suit does not have those. But there are many other aspects to good make, and in all of them this suit excels.
The collar is precisely attached by hand, giving it a natural curve; the attachment of the lining is through small, neat hand stitches; the pocket jettings are perfect.
We talked about jets in a recent article on the finer points of coatmaking, and referred to Ralph Lauren Purple Label as a ready-to-wear make that stands out.
Coincidentally, this Armoury suit is made by the same workshop, Sant’Andrea in Italy (also referred to as Saint Andrews), and you can see that quality here.
I even asked for a full list of all the stages involved in the making, and it was fascinating. So many hidden steps: trimming and basting the shoulder pad; tacking the melton under the collar as well as the cloth; ironing by hand rather than with a steam-driven machine.
I’ve been to a few RTW suit factories (including Belvest, Ring Jacket and Kiton) and this is the most involved process I’ve seen.
All this work does make the suits expensive. The Armoury’s 101 model starts at $2800 for a ready-made suit and $3500 for made to measure. Jackets are $2300 and $2750.
Of course, that’s still a long way off the $5000+ you pay for Purple Label MTM, but it does make the 100 series one of the more expensive we’ve covered.
In terms of the outfit, this is a good example of when I’m happy wearing a suit without a tie.
The material usually has to be casual, like linen or cotton, and so does the colour, so not navy, grey or anything very dark.
I also think it looks more appropriate in Summer, when you feel hot just looking at someone in a tie. And that drive for coolness is shown elsewhere by summer shoes and perhaps a lack of socks.
I can completely understand why some people would think a suit without a tie looks boring, or unfinished, and as a result I’d be more likely to wear a handkerchief (as here) or some other form of decoration.
A white-linen shirt is perfect in this kind of Summer combination, although the collar should really be a touch taller on me, and therefore sit prouder of the jacket. I’m currently having a button-down version made that would do better there.
The loafers are of course Sagans from Baudoin & Lange, here in black suede with black nubuck alligator on top - the latter a subtle showy detail in an otherwise very simple outfit.
You can read more about the creation of the Armoury’s hundred series on their site here, and there are lots of examples of the 101 suit on members of the New York staff here.
Other made-to-measure tailoring covered previously includes:
- Orazio Luciano
- P Johnson
- Saman Amel
- Gieves & Hawkes
- Eduardo de Simone
- Jean-Manuel Moreau
- Stile Latino
Photography: Alex Natt @adnatt
Off topic but I was trying to find if you’ve done a review on Grey Flannel at 7 Chiltern Street, I assume you’ve been there, any thoughts?
I have, though not in a while. To be honest the style didn’t appeal to me that much – some things a little too old and outdated, others a bit bright, striped and high street. Just not my taste.
Hi Simon, great article again. It is really interesting how you cover more made to measure clothes nowadays. As someone with a lower budget than many other reader, I appreciate it.
I have 2 questions.
1) How does the finishing and fit of this suit compare to the less expensive bespoke spektrum, such as Prologue and The Anthology?
2) Do you have any typs on how to successfully combine linen on linen? I get the feeling (and I believe you mentioned in a previous post) that doing such a process is hard because of the simar texture of the cloths.
Thank you in advance, and wish you and the readers a nice day and weekend
1) The finishing is probably better, just lacking that handwork inside as mentioned. The is also just as good, though none of those perhaps on the level with the top bespoke makers.
2) Yes, I tend to recommend against having a linen jacket and linen trousers, in different colours. But a linen shirt under a linen suit or jacket is fine.
And with the separate jacket and trousers, it helps if the two are different in ways other than just colour and pattern, eg one is a washed linen, or just a different weight which wrinkles differently, and so on.
Forgive me if I’m being a bit thick, but your article mentioned corrections made at the fitting stage but doesn’t appear to explain how that worked in light of the challenges people face with travelling etc. Was this all done pre-Covid and the associated lockdowns, or was the fitting handled remotely?
It was pre-Covid
Great suit.Even in these dress down days I would feel perfectly comfortable wearing this outfit when others are,to be blunt,scruffy.
The sleekness of the Sagans in mind look very good here.Do you feel that Gingkos would work just as well or does the strap make them feel too informal to wear with a suit?
No, I think the Ginkgos would be fine too.
Very nice appearance, Simon. What disturbes me a Bit are the jetted pockets. They look too formal to me.
Have you ever been bothered of button and buttoning point not being centered perfectly?
On this suit I see this as well – if you draw straight line from center of chin to crotch, middle button if full button on the left.
Also skirt in not perfectly centered around the fly.
I’ve seen this on bespoke pieces as well, thus not sure if this is not that important or the balance should be adjusted?
Not related question – have you ever had made high twist wool suit with white lining and noticed that on photos where flash was used, light it reflected through? I just noticed on one of my suits and not sure if I should get lining changed.
I think that’s too small a detail Tomas, given you will never, ever be standing that still and perfectly straight. Indeed, I haven’t got the suit with me here, but it may well line up, it’s just that I’m not standing ram-rod straight in the photo.
I haven’t had white lining like that, no, but I have had a tailor use pale canvas and that happen – and so it was changed to black.
Beautiful suit and perfect for a hot summer. But I don’t think the trousers are too slim. It’s not a business suit (whatever it means) and the slim touch add a more casual vibe to the outfit.
Is it really necessary to wear a slab of alligator on ones feet in 2020? I’m surprised – especially given your support of Extinction Rebellion etc
It’s certainly not necessary, but equally I don’t see anything wrong with it. As with fur, there is a lot of blanket treatments and knee-jerk reactions to exotics. The top-end skins are produced in an entirely sustainable way, and as for animal treatment, they’re not battery farmed. You’d need to be against nearly all managed farming of animals to be against it.
I think farming is fine for food. But slaughtering a gator to end up on your shoes is probably a step too far
Well, that’s the start of a big conversation. I presume you’re not a fan of foie gras, on the food side, for example?
And on clothing, why is it different whether it’s a gator or a baby cow? Both are slaughtered to make the shoes.
Simon, whilst I agree with you on the slaughtering point, I don’t associate exotic skins with sartorial dressing; to me it’s just an ostentatious display of wealth which attracts a certain kind of customer.
I’d be interested to know what drives your interest in exotic skin
purchases, particularly as this seems slightly contradictory to the approach to dressing and style that you usually espouse?
Yes, I know what you mean.
Personally, I think it’s only ostentatious if used in that way. A watch strap is fine, as are shoes for me (particularly nubuck, being so matte). But I would never wear a whole jacket in it, for example, or a more strongly coloured version.
It’s about taste, as is the use of many things in menswear, like strong patterns or unusual designs
Agreed on foie gras – also silly
It’s all fun and games until you try to milk an alligator.
If the man wants to wear alligator shoes he can do so. It’s none of your business Lance.
Beautiful suit, Simon.
Do you think that a jacket this colour (perhaps with patch pockets) would work as a separate?
In a more casual cut and style, yes I think it would. Although I personally think wool/silk/linen mixes are nicer for summer jackets
Would you advise using this service with the Armoury for the fabrication of a jacket with fabric from Joshua Ellis’s Escorial Wool. As I remember, your oatmeal one was done by Prologue and the brown one by Ciro Zizolfi. How, in your estimation, would the Armoury version compare to each of these? Thank you.
Yes, I’m sure that would be very nice. It would be a little more formal in cut than the other two, and wouldn’t be full bespoke like Zizolfi, but it would a good choice
Nice looking suit. One question, however: the picture from the side shows the back of the jacket noticeably shorter than the front. I believe this is one definition of ‘balance.’
This may be in part an artifact of your stance, but your thoughts on this matter would be interesting.
True. There’s no hard rule here, it’s partly a matter of opinion, but in general the back can be a tiny bit shorter than the front. You certainly don’t want the back ever longer than the front. More formal tailors, particularly English, are likely to have back and front exactly the same. More Italians would have the back a tiny bit shorter.
Whether this one is too short at the back is mostly opinion therefore. You could certainly argue it could be a little lower.
Beautiful suit! What is the jacket length?
I haven’t measured it, but I would think about 31 inches (back length)
The workmanship of this suit is impressive and the style looks very good on you. I’d lost track of Saint Andrews, so it’s good to know that they’re still in business. You’re choice of fabric was superb as well. I like the shoulder with the possible exception of the slight roping. Do you know if the roping can be eliminated in favor of a more natural shoulder? Another excellent and highly useful article. What was the delivery time?
I don’t think they would remove the roping, no, given that is the style. But The Armoury do several other styles with a more natural shoulder.
Delivery was different for me, but I think it’s about 6-8 weeks
Almost looks like a bespoke suit from the back, not bad.
I think this suit looks great on you. The proportions are better than some of your bespoke pieces, IMO.
Nice. I always wondered what their MTM looked like.
I know you touched on this on one of my previous comments on shoes (about going high-end before going bespoke), but would you express a similar sentiment as one climbs the tailoring world. For example, as someone with a couple Pini Parma suits and a couple of Suit Supply suits, would you recommend jumping to something like Ring Jacket before going MTM?
My current plan is to jump to MTM next with MyTailor/Hemrajani Bros. since they are the most accessible to me (both in cost and proximity), but am curious to hear your thoughts.
Well, the key consideration is how much you value a better fit – how much you need it for your body shape, and how much value you just place on that as an aspect of the suit (my view is, it should have a very high value)
It’s different to bespoke shoes though – MTM is a smaller jump and more consistent
Thanks for the response, and that makes sense. That’s sort of how I feel about it (in terms of the value on fit and the fact that it seems like a “smaller and more consistent” jump).
I just wanted to make sure I did not miss something. When you suggested high-end shoes (like G&G or EG) before going bespoke, though I had not considered it before, as I thought about it more it made sense. Get a sense for what a really good shoe should fit and feel like so you can better communicate what you want in bespoke.
It seemed to me that the jump from RTW->MTM would be a similar middle ground due to the nature of tailoring, and it seems like it is. Well, MTM next it is for me.
I would also say that bespoke tailoring is a more reliable product to move towards, and delivers more things you can’t get in RTW. I’d wear pretty much only bespoke tailoring if I could – but I’d still be happy with a lot of RTW shoes.
I guess what I really should ask is this – how important is that MTM vs Bespoke discussion? If good reliable bespoke isn’t available, or out of one’s price range should one chase bespoke, or just look for a good MTM that you trust?
Context: I’m California (US – based), was originally planning to get married in fall 2021, but we’ve decided to push back to fall/winter 2022 so that we can be as sure as possible that things are “normal.” That said, since I am in Northern CA there really aren’t a ton of bespoke makers in the US, let alone California (and Covid limits trunk shows and travel). I could see all of the following in person regularly enough:
There’s certainly one clothier that does in house bespoke in Los Angeles, Jonathan Behr Bespoke, for $3400 (clothier AND his tailor measure and make pattern, then tailor cuts and makes on premises AND multiple fittings),
A tailor in SF, Tailor’s Keep who make fully bespoke (same person measures, does pattern, cuts, and makes all on premises with multiple fittings) for $5000-$6000
Divij Bespoke (MyTailor.com/Hemrajani Bros) who I know has made for Kirby Allison (for what it’s worth) and who I’ve used for MTM shirts (which I found fit almost as well as my shirts from Burgos). They offer a “Bespoke” service with a “basted” fitting and claim to be making a unique pattern (as opposed to using a block), however the actual tailor, pattern maker, cutting, and making occurs in Hong Kong in a workshop they oversee.
At this point my wedding tux will be the first suit I get in this range. My instinct is to go with Divij Bespoke (aka a relatively known commodity who I have experience with, and who’s work I’ve seen examples of).
But I wonder if I should be chasing more “pure” bespoke (but more, especially since cost is still a factor ($5000-$6000 is probably a little much given other wedding costs and saving for a honey moon)? Sorry if that’s to broad/philosophical, or niche, a question.
Alexander, I think the key thing to say is, I really don’t know with any certainty, given I have zero experience of any of these.
However, my instinct would be that you should go with the most predictable of them. If this is one piece you will get, then it’s a lot of money to do for the first time with a tailor.
Thanks Simon. I guess the question was more philosophical (in a tight window for a first time commission, should one just chase bespoke assuming it will be better, or go with a reliable MTM?).
The rest was just context (given your location, I figure you don’t get much chance to see smaller US based tailors).
However, you seemed to have answered the question regardless. Stick to the most predictable and “known” quantity.
I know Andy Poupart (StyleAfter50 on Instagram) speaks very highly of suits he has by Divij Bespoke (formerly MyTailor/Hemrajani Bros) which gives me added confidence there.
Thank you very much. Eases my anxiety to know my instincts of “choose the most known commodity” seem to be right.
Hope you’re doing well.
No worries Alexander, and yes that’s exactly the message I wanted to convey
Simon how much control does the Armory give over things like pocket style and fully versus say quarter lined jacket?
There is quite a lot of variation, certainly over those two things
Simon, I agree with you that the sleeve and leg are too narrow.
Are they able to adjust these elements within their process ?
Also, could you have specified
A little bit, yes, as there is a little inlay in there still
I think your second question got cut off?
Simon, I see that your trousers here have turn-ups, perhaps 4 cm. What is your criteria for whether or not to add them to your trousers? And what size? I’ve seen you write about different topics related to trousers, but I haven’t been able to find any writings specifically on your opinion on turn-ups.
Ah, please pay me no mind! It seems that I didn’t search well enough, for under “Suit style 9”, you have an entire section on this topic. Cheers!
Oh good, pleased you found it George
Really struck by this post. A few posts ago you spoke fairly highly of bespoke tailors you knew in NYC. You also spoke well of stylists like Alan Flusser. But this post seems to have gone in the opposite direction. Did I miss the point of the article?
What do you mean by the opposite direction?
Also not sure I spoke that highly of either bespoke in NYC or Alan
My mistake – I had assumed those articles on Tailors you knew in NYC and the post on Flusser were somewhat complimentary. So when this post brings up the point of there being few offerings of the quality of The Armory in NYC, I was a little confused.
No worries, do let me know if anything is similarly unclear
I do not understand why anyone would pay $3500 for a MTM suit. That is clearly sitting in the less expensive Bespoke price range.
I thought you would be featuring MTM in the price range up to, say, £1000.
Very true Tim. But there are many factors other than just MTM or bespoke make. Bespoke itself varies in price and quality from 1000 to 6000 pounds. And design is consistently underrated by bespoke enthusiasts, I find
Love this suit, Simon (maybe the trousers are a bit tight).
In another comment in a different thread you mentioned that the more you use bespoke the more you miss design and I’ve been wondering about the implications of this. Does this mean that while the fit of a bespoke garment is usually better, the style or silhouette of (higher quality) RTW and MTM would generally be superior? Do the very best tailors also provide similar quality design and is this perhaps what distinguishes them? Or is it always going to be a trade-off? And finally, if one values design over fit should one perhaps stick with RTW/MTM?
I think it’s an ongoing problem that tailors don’t have much of a few on design, and it can leave them a little outdated. Not being original or radical, but just being a bit more contemporary. You can see the contrast there between most Savile Row tailors and younger outfits like The Anthology or Prologue for example.
No, I don’t think the best tailors are necessarily any better at design.
As to whether you should stick with RTW/MTM, it depends on your taste, and on the kind of thing you want. Design matters less the simpler and more conservative a piece you want – like a simple navy suit.
An attractive suit but not a compelling value proposition. It does not appear to over anything distinct in terms of style, make or price.
One can get a non-luxury, good quality bespoke suit made ( atleast in London ) for less. One can also buy a good quality off the rack suit ( say Paul Stuart in NYC – funnily enough London is not good in this category ) and have it altered to fit one well, unless one has a highly unusual body.
So I think this suit is a bit “its good quality, there is nothing really wrong with it, but why bother ?”.
BTW also think jetted pockets are wrong on this. I admit I don’t like them generally but they just don’t seem appropriate to a summer suit in this material which ideally one wears in way that beats it up a bit. This is a go-to-the-pub suit, or a stroll-in-the-park suit, or a Sunday brunch suit, to be lived in, not a museum piece.
Understood on the jetted pockets.
I also completely get the point on the value proposition. The only thing I’d add there is that an altered RTW would not be close to this level of fit really – particularly around the shoulders.
I don’t believe that much of the Armoury’s clientele are “Value Proposition” shoppers. Many people who purchase in this price range likely shop in multiple categories, including high-end RTW and custom. Also, the “value” of almost anything is purely a matter of personal attainment, i.e., an inexpensive suit to one man is an expensive one to another. Finally, I am of the opinion that high quality comes at a high price. Sometimes it only appears that something of great value is being obtained at a relatively low price. But I find often that it is not the price-tag, but only time itself, that reveals the true value of an item purchased.
Well said. I shop the Armoury from time-to-time and not once do I do so thinking what a bargain. It’s a treat I allow myself every now and then. I’m usually in need of severe alterations and most RTW sizes just don’t fit me right. I’d like to try MTM but I’m not convinced.
Very clean indeed Simon. I think it works without a tie as well, even though a tie sort of ties it all together with a suit. But I have slowly changed my opinion on this seeing more of these casual suits worn with loafers and no socks. I would say that no socks equals no tie. They seem to go together.
On another note, I take you have worn Sagans now for a while, both in and outdoors. How have these worn, particularily the soles. Have you worn out any of your pairs or can they be mended? Still havent taken the plunge as I am hesitant on buying such fine shoes and then wear them out over one summer…
They can be mended, but still it is a thin sole. None of mine have worn out but they will at some point fairly soon.
Personally, I’d say they’re worth getting, but they should be seen as a luxury option – ie if you buy top-end welted shoes that are twice the price, then this is your equivalent Belgian loafer. If you don’t, it’s probably worth looking at something cheaper.
I hear that. Are there really any cheaper options that are even close to looking and feeling this good? I have tried them once back when the Sagans were first launched and needless to say they are great.
There’s the original Belgian, Belgian Shoes, but they’re pretty cheaply made.
There’s also the Yanko ones on Skolyx, much cheaper. Haven’t tried them though.
Hi Simon, I was wondering If you can help me with this problem: I do have a some MTM suits, but sometimes when it arrives at the shop the waist is too large. What is the best way to make it more slim?
Thank you very much for helping me out. Keep up the good work.
To be honest, the shop should make that adjustment for you. Did they not offer to?
They just take in the sides starting from under the armhole but I have a feeling it’s not “perfect”. What would be the right thing to do?
Well, that’s where the alteration should be done from.
If you’re not happy with what they’ve done, they should re-do it, at least once.
If they won’t, it’s just a question of finding someone else to alter it – but they’ll do the same thing, just only as much as you ask.
I’ve recently come round to the idea of wearing a suit without a tie particularly with a PS button down shirt.I can even imagine wearing a summer grey wool or French navy suit with one of your pink or blue Oxford shirts with dark brown EGs.What do you think?Am I going completely bonkers?
Personally I think that would be too smart in the suit cloth. But see what you think
Long time, hope your well.
Interesting post on the new “100” series by the Armoury.
A little of the subject, which bespoke tailor since you started Permanent Style has made you for you the most comfortable suit to wear???
Keep up the good work.
The most comfortable? Maybe Panico – if you look up the review post on that, you’ll see some commentary on why. Most comfort is simply adding room in the back waist and chest, plus a soft make
Overall, a good look….however, you mention that you thought the leg was “on the slim side”…but if you go wider, especially with the short length (not touching the shoe), do you not risk the “hoola – hooping” of your trousers while walking, if they are wider? The additional fabric creates its’ own sail effect and has a life of its’ own….
My first (adult) suits were of a fuller leg of the time, and I distinctly recall, that if you did not get the “break” right, you were more than aware of your trousers “swooshing” around while walking…Can’t imagine how bad it would be with ankle length ones…
True, there is always that risk. Here I was only talking about the thigh really getting bigger, with no change to the cuff at the bottom, so it wouldn’t affect that I don’t think.
Simon I notice you mention in the comments that this jacket length is 31 inches, and it prompts a question – you and I are similar height/build. I cannot afford MTM / Bespoke (yet!) and so face a big problem of RTW jackets all being too short. What would you do in my position? Brands that I admire like Drakes all make their size 48/50 jackets with a length of 29.5 / 29/9 inches!
I’m not sure to be honest Doug. I just looked at a couple of other places and Anglo-Italian is similar, Armoury a tiny bit longer at 30.3.
If it bothers you that much, MTM is probably the only answer
Are the suit trousers flat-front or pleated? With a suit this casual, I imagine that flat-fronts might be more suitable.
Flat fronted. I rarely have pleats on my suits, even formal ones.
Who do you think is unequivocally the worlds finest tailor? The “Yoda” of Tailoring. What “philippe dufour” is to watchmaking. The humble quiet man or woman everyone knows is the best of the best, no questions. Not “fancy” or loud. Just simply the best because of the love and care, devotion and time and understanding of the craft and every aspect and details and finest materials. Never cuts corners, unwavering on perfection. Quality over Quantity. Doesn’t advertise, because they don’t have to. Is there a tailor out there like that? I try to dig through the internet but it’s hard to tell who that may be. I imagine someone who doesn’t advertise who works in a small hole in the wall off the beaten path that lives and breathes tailoring and has life long customers who only give the name by word of mouth. Who may these people be in the world of bespoke clothing and tailoring?
Thank You for your time
I think the short answer is, there isn’t one. As in, there is no way anyone could really say one tailor is the finest unequivocally. Because there are so many good ones, and because they vary so much in style, in cut and so on.
Focusing on your point about being quiet, not flashy, less known, there are also many like this. I guess because there are fewer ‘brands’ in tailoring, unlike watches – fewer that spend money on advertising etc.
So you might consider Huntsman, Rubinacci or Cifonelli to be too well-known, but for all of those there are lots that are smaller and less known: Kenjiro Suzuki, Michael Browne, Elia Caliendo.
They all qualify for your requirements of great craftspeople, that just get on with what they do, are largely known through word of mouth and so on.
I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any follow-up questions
Was looking at the 7414 Lisburn Dugdale the other day and what you can’t tell from the photos above is how the weave on this, versus w bill and other dugdale linens, is almost hopsack like and not as tight. Having looked at the bunch previously I had written off doing a full suit but I assume the trousers are holding up fine Simon?
Yes, they’re fine
I am looking to get a made-to-measure suit made and I live in London. For your money who would you recommend? It would be for a summer suit more Neopolitan Italian style.
My top recommendation would be Saman Amel probably. But making with them would require a trunk show, which isn’t going to happen for a bit. So I’d go a little further down the quality scale and go with Anglo-Italian
How do you find 12oz Linen like the Lisburn book for when the weather starts going over 26C or so? I’m planning a MTM beige/oatmeal Linen suit and am trying to decide between the Lisburn and Natural Elements books. I understand the Lisburn will hang better than the Natural Elements at 255g, but I’m a little worried I’ll find it uncomfortable at high summer having never had Linen over about 270g before.
Secondly, do you find yourself breaking this suit up much? I imagine the jetted pockets makes it a little harder than say a Model 3?
I find that heavier linen to be fine. In really hot weather (I’ve worn it in Florence at 40 degrees), the things that make the biggest difference are exposed ankles, lack of tie, and covered head (see post here)
To have a first linen suit to wear during the warmer climate and on holiday, which colour would you recommend as a first suit? Cream or beige. I know you had one by Jean Manuel Moreau in cream.
Of just those choices, probably beige. But it depends how often you’re going to wear it as an actual suit. Cream is very showy as a full suit, but less so broken up. If you were likely to wear them as separates, I’d lean more towards cream.
I’ve been considering the Lisburn Linen bunch for a summer suit, also to be worn as separates. I assume because of the hopsack-esque nature of the weave, it wouldn’t have any issue being broken up as separates?
Also, how did you find the Lisburn in higher heats if you had any experience wearing it in them? Would you expect the 350g cloth to remain comfortable in the higher 20s etc?
It’s not really a hopsack weave Jonny – I wouldn’t say it has any of that casualness.
It could still be OK, but only if everything else is casual – particularly a soft make, natural shoulder, open foreparts.
Yes I would find it comfortable like that – eg here in Naples (it was about 30)
Hello! Thanks for the helpful article.
I’m considering a MTM armoury suit for an upcoming wedding—the 101 as well as model 3 Ring Jacket—and I am wondering if you have any thoughts on how the quality of construction of these compare to some of the other MTM options in NYC: Paul Stuart, Sartoria Vestrucci (which does MTM in NYC), as well as JMueser—which you haven’t reviewed here. Any thoughts that you have would really be appreciated.
From what I’ve seen, I think Mueser is the lowest of those three, and probably the Armoury the highest with Vestrucci not far behind. Ring Jacket just below that, still very good, and I don’t know about Paul Stuart, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the most expensive
The shade of this linen is really quite nice. Better than a more standard khaki I’d say. I’m thinking about getting something made up in the same cloth now, but was wondering – what are your thoughts on single vs double breasted in linen, especially in lighter shades like this? Wondering if double breasted in this shade might be a bit too much. Any thoughts Simon?
I think it might be a little much, yes. I think a double-breasted is better – or at least less striking – in a darker colour like my brown Sexton here. And even then, I wouldn’t have gone for DB if it were not for the facts that (a) I already had several linen suits/jackets, and (b) I only like the Sexton DB cut
Cad and dandy offers offshore bespoke made in India for 1300 pounds.
In terms of style. If I get the this type of cloth from cad and dandy tailor. Same suit. How big difference would the style be ?. Would it be longer jacket etc ?
I’m afraid that’s not really true in almost any regard David. The offshore bespoke from Cad will not be made the same. Better or worse, it will certainly be different.
Ok I live in Stockholm and Götrich/Cad and Dandy is basically the same company. They have a partnership. Their offshore bespoke is the same. So basically what you are saying is that the suit you have is Italian style and the one I will get from Götrich/Cad and Dandy will be english style. Despite ordering using the same cloth the suits will look very different. The Cad and Dandy will look more formal english style and the Italian will look more casual like in your picture above. What can I do to get the same look as your style ? Should I show them your picture ? What specific alterations do I need to get your look from the bespoke process in Götrich/Cad and dandy ?
No I’m not saying that. I don’t know what style the Cad/Gotrich suits are, I haven’t tried them or looked that closely.
This Armoury suit, although made in Italy, is still fairly sharp compared to the south of Italy, the Neapolitan makes and makers.
I was saying that the construction of this suit will probably be different from the Cad ones. But I don’t know enough about those to comment.
Great post and beautiful suit, Simon. Have you found that certain MTM programs do certain things best? For instance, if I wanted a casual suit – maybe even linen as written about here – would you recommend one place over others? Or vice versa, with a more classic wool business suit?
I would say you want a more formal cut and make, as with any bespoke suit too.
So the comments in here about the style that make it more formal than perhaps a Neapolitan-made one apply there.
There will be a round-up piece on the MTM services in a couple of weeks. Maybe ask then and we can compare them all on this point.
Hi Simon, you mentioned in this article that you might get some alterations done and I was wondering if you had any recommendations for someone in London to do this kind of work? I’ve only ever had alterations done by the tailor/store who has produced the garment but this isn’t possible with some of my jackets from overseas. Thank you.
Yes Henry, we have a page on that – see here
Wonderful post and really lovely suit that I commissioned the same one after reading this article.
Two questions for you:
Nice, and happy to help any way I can.
1. To be honest, no, I didn’t find it different, or washed out. Each time they weave a new piece there are small differences, so perhaps this one was just a little bit lighter than my one. Sorry if it feels like a significant difference.
2. If I was wearing a tie, I would try and wear socks, as I think it goes better with the level of formality. As for tie, I find black is really chic with it, but if that’s too sombre then a really dark navy is also good. Paler colours like a light grey or a pale yellow are also nice. I would only say avoid colours that are quite strong
Hi simon is this mtm would be better than sarto houses in naples? If it fits me well
It’s a different style, most importantly Chris. This is a smarter, sharper style.
As to whether it’s worth having bespoke instead, have a look at this piece on bespoke. The important thing is to consider what the differences between good bespoke and good MTM are, and how much you care about those differences
Do you like the shape of this suit?
The shape of the one in this article Taewoo? Yes I do, I presume you’ve read those comments on it in the article?
How would you say this suit compares to your Caliendo Cotton suit in terms of colour and wearability?
Am considering making something similar. Also: do you have any experiences with Maison Hellard Linen? They have a similar shade as well.
The colour of this linen suit is a little darker and a little more muted/greyed. It’s easier to wear with black shoes and greys as a result. The Caliendo is warmer and a little lighter, you can wear lighter or stronger colours with it more easily.
The materials are a bigger difference though. The linen looks sharper, more like a summer suit, whereas the cotton is more obviously casual. You could even wear a T-shirt or slim trainers with it if you wished. But not with the linen.
Hellard linen looks nice, and I love what Nathan is doing. I’ve tried one of his in a pair of trousers, and even though I think I picked the wrong colour, the linen performs well.
Stunning suit! Would you comment on any perceived quality or finishing differences between the 101 and the Armoury’s Ring Jacket MTM line? Is it worth the upgrade to the 101?
The 101 is very well made, probably the best you can get for a MTM like this without getting into hand padding etc.
However, I haven’t tried the Ring Jacket and haven’t looked at it for a bit – there’s definitely a quality difference, but it’s hard to say how much exactly