Orazio Luciano made-to-measure jacket: Review
[Correction: This piece originally stated that the jacket did not have a hand-padded lapel. It does, and this has now been added below.]
This pink corduroy jacket was made for me by Orazio Luciano, over a period of six months.
I was measured at Pitti in June last year, had two fittings in London in the Autumn (as Orazio started visiting for the first time) and then picked it up at Pitti in January.
Orazio is a well-known option for MTM tailoring, being offered by stores around the world such as Pauw, Michael Jondral, The Armoury and others, as well as doing their own shows.
For many, Orazio is their introduction to high-end MTM Neapolitan tailoring. So it’s good to be able to cover it, as well as to broaden the coverage of made-to-measure on Permanent Style.
Overall this jacket was a decent fit, while not perfect, in a difficult material.
There were points of style, in particular trimmings and closeness of cut, that were issues for me - but may not be for the others.
Price might also be an issue. My Orazio jacket cost €2,200 and suits start at €2,800, with prices often higher through stores.
This is a lot cheaper than Kiton, where Orazio Luciano left to set up on his own. And prices have actually come down in recent years. But it's more expensive than most other MTM, and several bespoke options we've covered. Although it does have a hand-padded lapel, which puts it above most MT in terms of craft.
I was impressed that Orazio did two fittings, and gave the impression they were happy to do so with any client. The aim seems to be flexibility: some customers are happy to simple order and not have a fitting, while others want (or need, if they have more difficult physiques) one or two fittings.
And one thing that was different to most other made-to-measure was the fact the first fitting was partly basted.
Most MTM is effectively finished when it is delivered for a fitting, limiting the possible changes. This is largely driven by the production process: it is made in a ready-to-wear factory, and delivered as a finished piece like any other.
This Orazio wasn’t a full basted fitting, as you would get in bespoke, but it was similar to a forward, with lots of change still possible.
I did need several things changing, including space in the waist, in the back, and in the sleeve. The Orazio cut is by default a close, short one, and many of the changes we made were pushing against that.
Of course, having a baste is only useful if you do make lots of changes, and make them well.
In some areas this was done effectively. For example, at the first fitting the collar of the jacket was a little low on my neck, and standing off slightly. Moritz, the fitter, shifted this up and onto my neck, and it was much better at the second fitting.
You can see the effect of this high fit on the neck in the title image of this post, and the profile shot above.
(Moritz Kossytorz runs his own made-to-measure company, Massura, but also works travelling for Orazio. This means neither Orazio nor Pino conducted my fittings, but they did take the initial measurements, and approve it at the end in Florence.)
In other areas the fit could be improved. The sleeves, most obviously, are still too short and need lengthening by around 1.5cm.
There are plenty of wrinkles elsewhere - but this is corduroy, which has zero drape, and wrinkles are inevitable.
The improvements that could be made to the fit - in my experience, from wearing and watching it - are perhaps a lifting up of the shoulders to reduce drape at the back, and a little collapsing on the front on my right side.
Some other issues are an inevitable result of MTM manufacture, rather than bespoke. If the armhole and collar were a little more shaped, for example, it might be possible to stop the collar riding away from the neck when moving or using the pockets, as seen below.
That last issue is not something any MTM usually addresses - even my best MTM, for example from Saman Amel.
No overall, if the sleeves were lengthened a little, this Orazio jacket would be a decent MTM product.
A subtler and more subjective issue is the Orazio style.
I was inspired to use this pink cord when I saw it on an Anderson & Sheppard jacket, and loved how unusual yet muted it was. (I would never have ordered it otherwise, just from a swatch.) But when I saw my first fitting from Orazio, it looked different.
I realised it was the buttonhole thread, which was a bright shiny pink, where A&S had used something matte. You wouldn’t think the colour of buttonholes would make much difference but - rather like buttons - with nothing else decorating the jacket, they really stood out.
Suddenly the pink looked flashy. I talked to Moritz about this, and the workshop found a replacement and re-did the buttonholes. Unfortunately, as anyone has seen buttonholes being done will know, they are rarely as neat the second time around.
The Orazio team could not have done that work any better.
Rather, my point is that the Orazio style is a little showier than what I would normally go for - and you wouldn’t think that would make much difference with bespoke, but it does.
That cost me with the buttonholes, and the team also used a fairly bright pink lining that didn’t bother me previously, but I now notice. (That, of course, is easy to change.) Plus the overall cut of the jacket is still pushing a little towards slim and short.
We did put more space into the back of the jacket twice during fittings, but it still feels tight. Orazio said in Florence that the cord would stretch over time, but I’m a little sceptical about that as it hasn’t been the case with my other cords.
I’ve said many times before that you shouldn’t try to get a bespoke tailor to make something that isn’t their style.
This might be even more true of made-to-measure. Those that offer it are usually more of a brand, after all, often with ready-made tailoring on display to see and try. I think you should only buy MTM from them if you would buy RTW based on their style, as well.
Although there are other things that make my Saman Amel jacket a better MTM result, it is this point that I think is the most important.
Fans of classic menswear spend a lot of time burrowing into knowledge about quality and craft: that’s admirable. But once they’ve done that, they need to climb back out again and make sure they have perspective on style.
Sometimes in reviews like this, I worry that I concentrate too much on the negative.
Certainly, it surprises me when readers refer to a review as bad, when I felt it had both good and bad points (as almost any review, of anything, would do).
Partly that’s because so much little fashion coverage is still fluff. But also, I think, it’s because positive points can be taken for granted.
I want to say, therefore, that this is a really nice jacket. Orazio makes beautiful Neapolitan tailoring, with a lovely roll to the lapel, a soft clean shoulder, and good hand-finishing throughout: buttons, buttonholes, pick stitching.
The fit is also above average for made to measure, if anything. Corduroy is a cruel material to give someone for a test garment.
The important critical points are style and price, both of which will matter less to some people. Many will identify with Orazio’s style more than me; and others will either not care about the price or have no choice - as there is no other access to Neapolitan tailoring where they are.
I always try to write balanced reviews, but this one I feel particularly deserves to be so.
Photography: Milad Abedi
The fabric is Holland & Sherry 187006
Also worn: PS Oxford shirt, bespoke by Luca Avitabile; mid-grey Fox flannel trousers, bespoke by Whitcomb & Shaftesbury; Edward Green Belgravia loafers; Yard-O-Led silver pen.
Morning Simon
Whilst taking in your points good and bad, there are a couple of things about this jacket I really don’t like. Firstly, for my taste the lapels are a bit overpowering, and that automatically leads to the depth of collar turndown around the neck being exaggerated. I also think the back balance looks a bit short.
I’m interested to know why you put your men in in your outer breast pocket? Also, is a flannel trouser a natural choice with something so inherently casual as a cord jacket? If I was going to wear this (and it’s quite a big if) I might go with moleskin or denim, but not with flannel.
It’s also pretty overpriced isn’t it? Many could offer far more for far less, non?
I can certainly see why many wouldn’t like the lapels, particularly the height of the gorge. If I could, it’s something I would lower, and indeed also lower on my Saman Amel.
It’s a silly little thing, but I like wearing a pen in my breast pocket at the moment because I rarely wear a pocket handkerchief, and it’s a nice alternative bit of decoration.
Flannels are just about OK, I think, but certainly at the most formal end of the spectrum of trousers you’d wear with a jacket like this. Cottons such as chinos or jeans would be good.
I wouldn’t say many could offer far more, no. Perhaps a little more, but there’s also of made to measure that’s more expensive, without the handwork.
The jacket looks nice even if it isnt my style. I guess its a jacket you get when you already have 10-12 different sport coats.
How would you describe the differences in handiwork compared to Saman Amel? ( I am a loyal customer to Saman but is just curious).
The significant difference is that the top-end line from Saman has bespoke making elements like a hand-padded lapel.
The lower lines from them don’t have quite as much hand finishing as Orazio, I don’t think, but are more comparable on make, and of course cheaper.
Not great but not bad. Geography aside, I don’t think many would be hugely satisfied with the result given the price. However, the contrast with the yellow in the foreground is great.
Thanks Simon
Maybe I missed it but did you provide cloth?
No, it was cord from Holland & Sherry. Sorry, let me get the code now and include it.
Maybe I’m just missing it as I go back to skim, but I don’t think you’ve done this yet. 🙂
No I haven’t, sorry. Just waiting to hear. I’ll add a not here as well when I’ve got it.
It’s Holland & Sherry 187006. Thanks
Morning Simon – good read, and a balanced review.
What other trousers would you consider wearing with this jacket?
Cottons most obviously. Beige or khaki probably. Possibly cream if it were very bright weather
Very nice Simon, you could join Michael Portillo on Great Train Journeys with this little beauty…
Oh dear. I do hope it’s a little more subtle than that!
Honestly, no…but the programmes are very good
I have two MTM Jackets from Orazio Luciano trough JMM in Paris. I was measured there during a Trip and the final jacket was sent to me without a fitting.
I’m quite pleased with it, so I ordered a second. For me it was an option to try Neapolitan Tailoring without having to travel to Napoli. I’ve also tried Neapolitan Tailoring trough two Traveling Tailors that visited my Country. Neither of them delivered a pleasing product, so I gave them away.
I have to admit that the price-structure of JMM also helps. I think I payed around EUR 1800. If it would be much more I wouldn’t have tried it.
However I find that Florentine-Tailoring suits me best. So in the meantime I stick to one Tailor in Florence, which made me around 12 jackets and suits by now.
Nevertheless I can recommend JMM if you have the opportunity to be in Paris and want to try out Neapolitan Tailoring. JM and Nicholas also happen to be very nice chaps.
Thank you. I’ve actually been trying JMM too, as part of a push to feature more MTM on Permanent Style, and was about to receive the finished jacket when the pandemic came crashing down.
It was very nice, and will be featured once I receive it and get a chance to shoot it.
Good day Simon. On a different subject. I need to find a good tailor for Alterations for Suits and trousers. I reside in South Florida USA, and do not mind traveling within the United States. Thanks for your kind advice. Mike Smith.
Hi Mike,
I don’t know anyone I’m afraid, but it’s worth looking at this post, where readers have made some recommendations.
@Mike, it’s not all that close to FL, but Sam Wazin in NYC is excellent quality
Nice to read your comments JDV!
Would be interested to know your go-to tailor in Florence!
The pink/grey combination is good, I think; I have been trying it with pink pullovers recently and though it’s a bit of a shock compared with my usual combinations, it’s a nice change. I realise that you try to be even-handed, and warn us against judging from photos, but I’m afraid that this coat, particularly the front/back balance, seems to me not one of your most successful.
Always love review articles! My point would be that the price is way too high. I think MTM is great for items that are a bit more experimental or that you would not get as much wear from, just like this jacket, because the price is lower than bespoke. But when the price is similar to many Italian bespoke makers and the likes of WS and Anthology, I can’t se how this could be justified. It seems that they are focusing on locations that have few alternatives, so perhaps if you next best option is overpriced RTW this is great value, but don’t think it makes sense in London.
Agree completely Nick. Seems overpriced for MTM, and I struggle to see why one would go this route rather than a similarly priced bespoke jacket. Truly only makes sense if there are a dearth of options locally, which would of course preclude London.
have you had anything MTM from Anglo Italian, Simon? Wondering how their offering sits in relation to Orazio and Saman. Do they offer a hand padded chest/collar/lapel for example?
They don’t, no, but what I’ve seen is good and I’m in the process of trying them out too
I had a terrible experience with Ango-Italian. It’s a cheap garment made by Eduardo de Simone. The garment felt like it was made by Uniqlo.
They don’t use Eduardo de Simone any more FYI
good to know, thank you. I would consider giving them another try then and the styling is great.
I’d be interested to know what you think of Anglo Italian MTM too. I am considering them, but am abit apprehensive as i am not aware that anyone in store has a background in garment construction. As helpful as Jake and co. are, and as much as i like their clothing (of which i have bought much), my impression is that they have a keen eye for construction and style, but do not have experience as a tailor, cutter etc. Or perhaps i shouldn’t be expecting that for MTM.
Anyway, would welcome and look forward to a review!
You’re right that neither of them are tailors, but they do both have long experience doing fittings, and developing patterns. Everything someone would do other than make or cut – at The Armoury but also (in Alex’s case) at Kiton.
Alex was the head of Kiton MTM program globally…
That gives confidence, thanks!
‘Partly that’s because so much little fashion coverage is still fluff.’
‘So much’ do you mean?
Yes, sorry, typo there. ‘Little’ should be deleted
I really like the look of this jacket. It seems to be the sort of thing you could throw on for a casual lunch or when you run out the door to meet someone for coffee – definitely with jeans. The style and color looks like something brands like J.Crew used to try to do but much less successfully. But price would be a sticking point for me.
I’ve seen worse MTM work. The nicest thing with this jacket is the prominently wide and nicely curved barchetta style breast pocket which I’m a great fan of. But for the sake of God Orazio, make those jackets longer. This length is too Inspector-Colombo-esque hardly covering the rear.
Simon, a bit of advice if you don’t mind. I’ve a Orazio jacket which was caught on a door handle and ripped the sleeve head, I’ve had it invisibly mended, but the results are one sleeve is shorter.
You mention getting the sleeves lengthened, how straightforward is this to do?
Thanks
Phil
Hi Phil,
Have you seen our video with Davide at Gieves on alterations – what’s easy, hard and impossible? It’ll answer all your questions I think
Simon does the high lapel gorge bother you? Perhaps it’s the angle of the photography, but it seems to be angled way over the back of your shoulder
Yes, as mentioned above in the comments, I’d ideally have it lower
Apologies, I missed that.
The dusty pink works very well in corduroy, by the way. The texture seems to tone done the brightness. Bravo
I genuinely enjoyed reading that .
A MTM piece made with considerably handwork in a RTW factory but with a price tag of Bespoke .
It’s almost like they’re trying to cover every market .
The key issue for anyone is the price point .
I mean if you’re going to the trouble of handwork on a jacket then , at that price , why not just go the extra and make a individual pattern ?
Some of your critiques appear a little unfair . It’s pink , it’s corduroy ….. it’s never going to be easy .
The sleeves are unforgivably short and that jacket should never have been allowed out with them like that .
But as I said at start I genuinely enjoyed reading b that because it got me thinking about commissioning MTM , bespoke and all the pitfalls .
Hi Robin,
Well, it’s not really a bespoke price tag. Only bespoke if you’re making in India or China, and if they were a brand doing that, it would be considerably cheaper. Also, pretty much all MTM is made in factories that also does RTW. That’s not unusual.
Simon I sent you a note challenging your suggestion that you could only get bespoke from China or India at this price point.
There are plenty of good tailors around who could make you a proper bespoke jacket at this price. I then went on to say that of course this would bring the advantage of having something that fits you properly.
Did you decide not to publish it, or did it simply not get to you?
I didn’t see that, no. Thanks for resending it.
Would you mind saying which tailors you’re referring to?
I wont name them now Simon as most are closed or working in a much reduced context; so I fear some will not survive.
Happy to come back to this point when life returns to normal.
But I’ve just collected a beautiful bespoke summer jacket which only cost about 60% of yours.
I don’t think there’s any harm in naming them now? All the better to plan for readers to support them later.
I’m sure you’re being genuine, but again people do frequently comment saying they pay half the price for great tailoring, but then won’t ever give the name of who it is.
I should also say, there are lots of tailors who charge less than this for bespoke, but they are small and local, either around the UK, in Naples, or in other European countries. I’m generally discounting those because people can’t access them (they don’t live there, and the tailors don’t travel) or, in my experience, while they do do bespoke, the quality isn’t great. That was my experience with Spanish tailors, and ones in a few other countries.
So how about Macangus and Wainwright? Full bespoke, excellent quality. Very accessible (London).
True. Like Graham Browne, I wouldn’t put them on the same quality level as some of the other tailors, but you’re right they certainly offering bespoke at below that price.
Ive been thinking about trying Macangus. Do you have any experience of them Simon? Noting your comment about their quality level.
Thanks
No, and I should emphasise that. I just know Richard and Dan well from working with them before (Richard at Choppin & Lodge, the shop he set up before)
Ive got a couple of jackets from Cat and the Dandy. They offer a full bespoke service, the standard of fit and finish is high, choice of cloth is as you would expect, and the pricing is way below your pink cord. Have you reviewed them?
No Peter, although I do plan to. Note that the bespoke service is often partly made in India too.
Sartoria Vergallo?
Ah yes. I thought they were more expensive than that now, but I might be wrong. I’ll drop Luca a line to check.
Checked, they’re 2500 euro starting price. So a little more expensive
Simon I was under the impression that all their bespoke was made in London, but that some MTM was sent to India for sewing, and their RTW line was all produced there. At least this is what they have told me.
Thanks Peter. I’ll check with them, perhaps my information is out of date. Last time I checked there was a bespoke service that was made in India.
Hi Simon,
I think the jacket suits your move towards a more casual-based wardrobe, it’s a very lovely piece as the corduroy has a muting effect on the colour – the dusky pink works beautifully as an odd jacket.
Personally, I would argue that your reviews are seldom negative, rather (as you state) balanced and objective. It’s the reason I read PS, and I was so pleased to see you reference the grand majority of fashion content being puff pieces. I enjoy your explorative, genuine articles as they provide an opportunity to think similarly about my own style choices.
Menswear is wonderfully subjective, what works for one might not work for another, but that’s the essence which makes it fun.
Cheers Jack, it’s lovely to know that comes across.
A second comment if I may .
Why MTM ?
If a good quality RTW that is then tailored to suit works why pay excessively more ?
Yes, I accept if you’re 6ft 4 and and of ‘odd’ proportions it’s your only route.
Or if you want a particular colour not done in RTW
Otherwise , there’s is no getting around the argument of the price point .
Because even tailored RTW would not get a fit like this.
If you buy a RTW jacket, for instance, you cannot tailor it to lift the collar further up the neck. That’s not possible. You can tighten it to the neck, but you can’t add extra material to lift it up, or not by much. You also couldn’t do much around shoulders that were sloping (as mine are) or curving forward or back.
I tried a RTW Orazio jacket as part of the MTM process, and it could not have been altered to get this fit.
Hmmm
I know plenty of people who are fortunate enough to buy RTW that seems to fit them as well as bespoke would. A tad off the sleeve or trouser, and hey presto.
That’s always possible, but pretty unlikely.
Do you mean pretty unusual, rather than pretty unlikely?
Both. As in if it does happen, it’s very rare. But I’m sceptical it actually happens. I’ve seen so many people that tell me that, yet there are clearly ways in which it doesn’t fit as well as good bespoke. (And, often, they don’t have much experience of bespoke to base the comparison on.)
Well I only ever wear bespoke because its the only way I can get stuff to fit me. Have been for years since I left school, so clearly many years worth of experience in this area. My formal wear is mainly made for me by A&S. So I think I know what fits properly. My comments were made specifically about two long standing friends who only ever wear RTW, and who are fortunate to get an “as good as bespoke” fit for a fraction of the price!!
I’m sorry you are sceptical, but perhaps you could just take my word for it rather than dismissing my contribution?
Thanks
Hi,
I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to be dismissive. I’ve just had so many people tell me this in the past – often people wearing something, and talk about how good the fit is, when it has clear errors.
If I’m wrong here I do apologise – and your friends are clearly both lucky and unusual!
Cheers
At barely 5 ft 9 and with broad shoulders I am far from having the physique of a male model. Yet I am fortunate enough to have found, in Anglo-Italian, a RTW jacketing option that fits like the proverbial glove. It is uncanny how well their cut fits me, with just minor adjustments to sleeve length necessary. Usually the need to accommodate my upper body results in a RTW jacket that is too long for my body. I appreciate I may be in a small minority here. As to the earlier comment about Anglo-Italian MTM, I haven’t needed to try it. But I am very pleased with the quality of the jackets I have bought from them and their service has always been excellent (alterations are included in the price) so I would be very surprised if their MTM wasn’t of an equally high standard.
Not sure about you but I enjoy these sort of back and forth threads .
Your expressions being challenged and others being forthright with their points really helps clarify details .
Certainly need note of that .
On the broader point of RTW, MTM and Bespoke , I think you can never do enough to show out the pluses and minuses of each.
I would urge further articles to highlight each … certainly now as we move to more austere times .
Oh good, thanks Robin, and noted.
And will do. I have done one comparison of MTM vs bespoke obviously, but a MTM v RTW would be good, wouldn’t it? And maybe in a video too
Robin you’re spot on.
The nice thing about this website is that it is an open channel for those who are right at the beginning of their project and who benefit greatly from any guidance on the absolute basics. It equally fires up some voices who evidently have a huge knowledge and experience bank of their own to contribute, which it seems they do in the main to add to the ethos of support and a shared view of tailoring in general.
I am less positive about the “style” advice as I am of the view that it is too subjective and often becomes more of “I wouldn’t if I was you” or “I don’t agree” type comments from Simon who can, only ever, be a commentator rather than an arbitrator. That rather diminishes it’s value in my view.
Makes for interesting reading though.
I see a critical purpose of this site being a place where the informed and passionate may gather to exchange opinion on things that don’t matter much in a stricken world but give us pleasure nevertheless.
I think it’s fantastic Simon has such clear views and a highly developed personal sense of style – he doesn’t sit on the fence or preach and for that I am most grateful.
We are all unique individuals and if we present such a face to the world with confidence then we may wear whatever we like and pull it off, regardless of the length of our jackets, widths of our sleeves and price of our tailors.
Many visitors to this site swear by bespoke and get as much from the experience as the item of clothing that results. But if I can get good RTW then I am entirely satisfied. I simply don’t have the time for the fittings and I would undoubtedly be disappointed by the smallest imperfection in finishing or service – something I know my personal desire for perfection would find hard to accept after investing the emotional energy on the journey.
But that’s just my view and I completely respect the different standpoints of everyone here.
The coat does not fit properly. Was there miss communication or did the tailor simply do whatever he wanted to? The tailor works for the client, always make sure that they
remember that. It you do not feel that your wishes will be honored exactly, go to another tailor.
Hi Rob,
That’s not a particularly helpful generalisation, first because, as we frequently talk about here, it’s very hard to draw such definitive conclusions about fit from a few static photos. And second, because ‘fit properly’ could mean any number of things.
Do feel free to add more detail as to what you mean, but it’s worth bearing the first point in mind.
Cheers
Simon, I have been waiting years for your review of Orazio. I have a few sport coats from them. The fit is inconsistent and I made tweaks to each as I ordered the next, and non of them are perfect. But that is just the nature of MTM. It’s hard to get the PERFECT fit. But the back of your garment just doesn’t look great. Bottom line for me is that Orazio is just too expensive for the product. Better to use a lower end Neopolitan tailor, like Mina (NSM) or Tofani for a similar price.
I will have to agree with S.R that is a poor fitting jacket period, also that is why I don’t like outside pockets, both hands inside of them just deconstructed the entire garment, not a very nice picture.
Roger.
I find the style quite nice: I think it flatters your chest and shoulders quite well. The fit may not be perfect, but I think the jacket looks better on you than many of your jackets that fit you much better. The pink cord is also far more wearable than one would expect.
With regards to price, perhaps the price isn’t so great if you live in a city with a bunch of options. I think it is important for people (commenters/readers) to remember, though, that most people don’t live in cities with a bunch of options. Even in New York which has many options it’s not like one can get something better for cheaper.
A decade ago I bought a Ralph Lauren chocolate brown corduroy jacket for $8.50 at a local thrift shop. The price tag was still attached. Corduroy may have zero drape and inevitable wrinkles , but it is such a supremely comfortable fabric, and as your article illustrates can be very stylish as well.
I find your reviews consistently well balanced Simon, and especially appreciated today’s article. Northern Nova Scotia was the location of a tragedy the past weekend which made international news. Your Orazio Luciano jacket piece was a pleasant diversion.
Hi Simon,
I really enjoyed reading this review. I have several pieces by Orazio, and I think your « points of concerns » if I can refer tot hem this way are things that I can relate to. It is not a true bespoke, but definitely better than other makers out there charging twice the price. Anyway, my question is with respect to your comment when you say that you added space in the back twice and it still feels tight. Do you mean at the junction of the armhole and the back? I do feel like this is where I relate the most with your comment as I have always found the armhole to be so high and the back so narrow that it does feel tight.
Interesting.
It was added to increase width across the back. I’m not sure whether that was done in the side seam or the centre seam, but I’d guess the former. Either way, it was clearly only a small amount – probably too tentative. Though they have and continue to emphasise that they are happy to make changes again, until I’m happy with it.
Thanks for this thoughtful review, Simon. My experience of having two jackets MTM from Orazio are quite similar, with the big caveat that they did only one follow up fittings, communication after that was non-existent, and so problems remain unresolved. Also, the pricing via the Armoury is 20-25% higher than what you quote. I was frankly underwhelmed with the whole experience and have concluded it’s not worth it. One is much better off paying a bit more for a proper bespoke from any number of great Neapolitans than the MTM program from Orazio. Or getting a less expensive MTM that fits equally well as Orazio.
Cheers, nice to have the range of experiences added. Much appreciated.
I’d be curious to know how OraZio compares to Dalcuore given the very similar price point. Thoughts?
To Dalcuore bespoke? It’s certainly better, but I thought more expensive?
Dalcuore MTM.
Ah, sorry, I haven’t tried that so can’t comment on it, either fit or construction.
Hi Simon, could you elaborate on your comment? What exactly makes you say Orazio is “certainly better” than Dalcuore bespoke? Thank you
I meant Dalcuore bespoke is better, being full bespoke.
I really like the style and the shorter/slimmer than usual fit; seems like the right jacket for someone who usually wears Boglioli and decides to take it up a notch.
If this is a functional buttonhole on your sleeve, I’m assuming they would need to convert the cuff from a 1 button to a 3 or 4 button to extend the sleeve much longer than it currently is. Or I guess you could lengthen it from the sleevehead if there’s enough fabric left up there, but both options sound like a lot of work.
Yes, it is functional, and yes ideally it would be done from the sleevehead.
I don’t mind that much if we have to shift to three buttons though. Perhaps one advantage of just starting with one!
Buttonholes are “working” rather than “functional”. If functional was the right description, it would need to be characterised as functioning.
The opposite of working, when it comes to buttonholes, is sham.
I wouldn’t say that my buttonholes work very hard, but they do seem to function well enough.
Simon, any chance you can share some thoughts on the number of buttons on a sleeve? I’m commissioning a sports jacket in a navy herringbone tweed. Patch pockets, 3 roll 2, fairly casual – but it will be my first proper separate jacket. I really like the look of a single button on sleeves, but I wonder if it’s something that’s will be distinctive enough to stand out. Once travel restrictions ease up I’ll be having my first fitting and I’m sure the staff at the tailor shop will have a strong opinion about it, but I’d love to hear your thoughts anyways. Thanks!
I like the one-button look, and it isn’t the end of the world to add more later. But I also deliberately have it on Neapolitan jackets because I’ve seen it on vintage pieces from that area – not on English ones.
If you’re in any doubt, I would play safe and just go for three or four.
Simon, thanks for this review as I have been waiting for it to be posted. I did consider trying OL, but I felt the price was too high especially at the Armoury. I have bought shirts from OL’s online shop and was not impressed. However, I do like their ties especially this light blue grenadine tie I got off their online shop.
I look forward to the JMM post as I I have thought of trying them out. However, I find JMM can be difficult to arrange an appointment in NYC as they do not post when they are coming to the the USA. Do you know if and where they post their visits ahead of time?
I don’t I’m afraid Dan. I did a fitting with JM in London, but was notified about it because I already had a piece underway.
I have tried it too with the lovely team at Jean-Manuel Moreau.
Great fitting process with Nicolas, but in the end, the product that Orazio delivers is way overpriced.
Same issues with the length of the sleeves btw… …on a windowpane, this was a problem we could never solve.
Also, buttons were not the ones we chose.
Much too expensive, and not because of Jean-Manuel, who does great job and provides top customer service.
It’s just Orazio’s product which seems to be over estimated, at least to my eyes.
I won’t give it another try.
It seems like getting sleeves lengthened and different buttons are the easiest things to fix. And these are the things that JMM communicates to OL. how can you exonerate JMM on button choice and sleeve length? BTW, any tailor can correct these things. Also, with respect to price, someone should have informed you that you were out of your price range before you started the process, don’t you think?
In my case, seeves problem was not that they were too short, but too long, with the buttonholes already opened. Since windowpane pattern does not allow to shorten from the shoulder, it was not possible to get this right.
I was never out of my price range, no.
I sometimes go for much more in bespoke.
I’m just saying that for me, this price is not justified for the quality delivered. Lot of the finishings could be neater. (should be…)
In my opinion, there is just too much of a gap between this and what you can get on the bespoke options which start at just a few hundreds more.
Since we are waxing anecdotes, I once had an OL MTM suit made through the Armoury and the shoulders were uneven and uncorrectable. I didn’t have to say a word, Mark worked it out with Pino and Pino sent me another brand new jacket in 4 weeks. It was perfect, but the buttons were incorrect and Mark had the buttons replaced in NY. So, you should have pursued your complaint with JMM. Isn’t this why you go through third-parties?
I get most of my bespoke through the Armoury. Where exactly do you get this quality bespoke for a “few hundred” more than Orazio? Is this another case where the name of this great tailor cannot be divulged? No sarcasm intended, but I bet readers here, including me, would LOVE to hear of this quality bespoke tailor.
While I like hearing constructive stories about tailors that help others make tailoring decisions, it’s patently unfair to take unsubstantiated cheap shots at tailors with unfalsifiable allegations of incompetence, especially where the tailor cannot defend the claim. I do, however, believe those stories should be printed. But I only remind readers to take such stories in the context in which they are presented – unsubstantiated allegations.
Finally, I think PS reviews should have a separate section for those who want to complain about prices. It’s kind of boring, unconstructive and completely personal.
Thank you for saying my comment is boring, but i am only giving my humble opinion on Orazio’s pricepoint, and the fact he did not meet my expectations for this amount of money.
I have tried many others and thought value was better.
To answer your question, just for an example Gennaro Formosa made me a perfect jacket in a very difficult Porter and Harding cloth for 2500.
I am simply telling how i feel, based on facts.
You may well have had fantastic experiences with OL at the Armoury and i am glad for you. No need to criticize those who relate their own true experience on a less positive side. As far as i remember, this is a review, not an Instagram post where everything is always “amazing” “beautiful” or “incredible”
Usualsuspects, please accept my apology. I didn’t intend to insult you or anyone else with my comment regarding price point complaints. The point that I was trying to make is that price comparisons are not pertinent to non-price conscious buyers. In any event, it’s a calculus that is wholly personal and easy for each of us to make on our own; with much of the information being available in this very publication.
The other point I was trying to make was that this blog’s primary purpose is to provide readers with a professional opinion on the topics explored. It’s backed up by well-respected journalistic integrity. Many of the other critiques and praises alike from readers are somewhat meaningless although possibly entertaining. No, it’s not Instagram, but nor is it everyone’s personal opportunity to rattle off unfalsifiable insults directed at tailors unable to defend themselves. When a tailor agrees to make a garment for this publication, she or he also agrees to this publication’s critique. So, I just think that readers should give careful thought and consideration when levying allegations based on “facts” (of which only they know to be facts) of ineptitude at tailors on such a significant industry forum. Such claims have the power to irreparably harm and damage reputations and businesses. I think JMM would be surprised to hear that someone left his company unsatisfied. And if he did, I find that a “fact” hard to believe based on his high level of esteem. This publication has a garment coming from JMM and I suppose we can gauge your poor experience vs. PS’s.
Finally, if you paid 2500 for a bespoke Formosa, you paid far below the prices normally charged, although it is cheap bespoke. Suffice it to say Simon’s review of Formosa shows why those paying market price, which is closer to 500 Euros difference from OL MTM, may be better off going with MTM than bespoke, in fact, this is what Simon recommended to the final commenter in the Formosa review based on his experience. I hope this clears up my points and I am sorry for dispargging your comment.
Thank you Anon, and thanks to Simon for this great review and giving us the opportunity to express our opinions.
Again, my point was not to cause harm to Orazio’s proposition.
I am just confirming, just like Simon said in the very first lines of this review, that’s it’s more expensive than several MTM and bespoke options covered on PS.
And that -to my eyes- the make could be neater for this price, regardless of the silly anecdotes of the sleeves and buttons…
I am not saying it’s bad either.
This is just a customer point of view and I want to insist on that point.
That’s important, because I don’t know exactly what is your position in this “industry”.
You seem to know very well OL and the Armoury to defend their side so strongly.
Perhaps you have some interests with them and you could tell us more about it, and in which case I do understand you think it’s unfair to be critical.
I was just giving a mitigated feeling regarding the price that’s all.
I rarely open up my mouth to do so but I thought I could this time, as I do think it’s helpful for everyone to sometimes hear something else than “everything is awesome”.
No hard feelings.
Have a good week everyone.
Thanks both, I know others find exchanges like this interesting, when kept civil.
‘No hard feelings at all. I have no connection to OL or the Armoury other than being a long-time customer of both. And from being customer, I know Orazio and Pino very well. I also know JM and it just seems quite unusual that any of these gentlemen would allow someone to leave their businesses unhappy with such a major problem. I’ve never heard of any such thing in all my years of patronage. That’s all to it. I am a hedge fund lawyer and I live mostly and work mostly in NYC and periodically live and work in Paris.
Hi Simon,
Can one wear this type of light coloured jacket in the evening (after sunset) during summer? Or would it really be restricted to daytime.
Well, it depends what you think about such traditions that bright colours aren’t worn after dark.
Personally, the fact it ‘should’ not be done doesn’t matter to me.
But I am interested in why the tradition exists, which is because bright colours look better in the light, and are less suited to dark, elegant evening.
See our Rules section on more there.
Personally, bearing that in mind, I would be fine wearing this out in the evening, but might consider something else if it were a smart dinner, or anything else I considered to be more formal.
Though I also probably wouldn’t be wearing cord in that situation either.
Thanks for the review. The cloth colour reminds me of Nantucket red beloved by the Ivy crowd. The jacket seems to have a few issues or style choices not to my taste (i’m being diplomatic). You had better like the house style if you’re going down this route as I assume there is little option to te(/a)mper within the MTM model. I looked at the Massura web-site and Moritz certainly seems to like the bum-freezer jacket! It seems to me that the business model is pitched at a difficult and competitive sector of the market. The price is around the level of entry level bespoke without the options/ fit that entails but with a similar wait time. It may have more handwork that other MTM options but personally I would sacrifice that for better fit with a bespoke option. YMMV.
On the point of the high gorge, I’d argue that it’s a feature that’d suit guys with really sloped shoulders and want to wear tailoring more casually, i.e. unbuttoned jacket with minimal structure, jeans or linen trousers, open-necked shirt.
Maybe it suits guys with ‘really sloped shoulders’, but if you have square shoulders (like I have), the extra-high gorge makes you look like Luca Brasi being garroted.
Simon – great review and really well articulated in terms of what you like and are less enthusiastic on.
I must also commend you on the choice if the grey flannels with the dusty pink.. it would have been too easy and tempting to use a tan/khaki/cream trouser but this has really shown how one can use different combinations to still look stylish and ultimately less showy.
Oh good, cheers Ravi. Grey is usually so nice with strong colour – it helps tone it down well.
I do have some grey cottons too in the attic. I’ll get them out soon and try them with that
Simon,
You mention that you don’t wear pocket squares much any more. Why so? It seems to me that you would as you move away from ties, if only to add some interest or to “finish” an outfit.
Good question Brett, and actually the subject of a post that’s coming up. I’m looking forward to chatting about that one.
Simon,
I realize that great tailors are adept at working with a range of fabrics, but do you think that some fabrics are perhaps beyond the abilities of even the best craftsmen to turn into a great finished garment? Fine wool, silk, etc., have qualities (hand, drape, etc.) that are inherent in both the fibre structure, as well as weave.
Could this be one of the core reasons for any issues one would have with a corduroy jacket?
Yes, although I think it depends what you mean by a great finished garment. It’s certainly more challenging to work with most cottons, and the end result will likely never look quite as sharp – particularly after it has been worn a bit. Cotton just has no drape, it can’t flow as it hangs.
Other materials are also challenging, like anything very lightweight, but I think cotton is the worst.
It is also an argument for having it in more generous, looser cuts I think. Certainly my A&S suit in cord had fewer issues in that regard than my Pirozzi, for instance.
And it’s perhaps an argument for having such pieces in MTM, rather than bespoke, perhaps. Bespoke will help control some of these issues, but the end result is also never going to look as good as something in a good-weight wool.
I think the quality of your Orazio experience depends on who you are purchasing the garment from. For Example, my Orazio Jackets have come from Jean Manuel Moreau or Nicola Radano(has since left Orazio). Both did great jobs fitting me and wouldn’t rest until the garment was as close to my expectations as possible. I’m not sure this person you went with was the right person.
Thanks Matt, very useful.
Just to be clear, I was told, and am still told, that the jacket can be changed until I am completely happy with it. I still plan to take it back and lengthen the sleeves at least, and perhaps add extra room in the back. But I felt that it was fair to review it now, after two fittings and what was supposed to be final delivery.
I’ve been getting OL clothing through the Armoury for 6 years now often communicating with Orazio, Pino and members of their staff. As far as I know, Nicola Radano has never worked for OL or has ever been associated with OL. Once he travelled with OL to NY to present some of his ties I believe but wasn’t associated with OL in any way as far as I understood. Also, I didn’t know he was a tailor, but that interesting if he is one.
Arigato Simon!
What size shoe horn would you buy if you had to buy only one?
I’m a bit shorter 5’3. How do you determine what length you need?
Do you put your shoes on kneeling, sitting down, or standing up?
I have a mid-length shoe horn, such that I can use it when standing up, if I bend down slightly. A big full-length one always seemed a little silly (although perhaps a nice decorative object).
How long is the mid-length?
About 10 inches I think.
Is this your most casual jacket? I think it looks great, but find the trousers are too formal. I am not go-to-hell enough to suggest madras shorts and navy boat shoes, but don’t you think navy chinos could work?
Navy wouldn’t, no (as ever, tried it, but too strong a colour). But cream or khaki chinos would. Not RTW, washed chinos like Gap etc, but tailored ones like my Dalcuore ones, yes.
If you’re interested, I wouldn’t say it was my most casual jacket, at least in terms of construction. My Stile Latino had no structure to it at all, and was in a very stretchy jersey cloth – here.
Navy and pink is a classic combination. Ever seen a Leander Club tie?
I would have no hesitation to wear navy chinos with a pink jacket BUT it would be linen and not cord, with a white OCBD, and sockless with dark brown suede loafers. In Taormina. Drinking a Negroni.
I think we’d all be in trouble if our clothing combinations mimicked those of ties!
Seriously, I’m sure you like that combination but I don’t personally. In cotton or linen.
Steve Hitchcock is looking very dapper in a pink jacket with navy trousers in one of your previous posts.
You clearly don’t like blue trousers Simon, but why do you therefore advise your readers not to wear them?
Hi Martin,
It’s not as simple as saying I don’t like blue or navy trousers. I do think they can work, just only in rather narrow combinations. I’m sure you’ve read the post where I try to set this out in detail.
As to why I give that same advice to readers – that’s rather the point of this website. It’s my opinion on what looks good. Others are free to disagree, and I encourage comments that do that. I also carefully set out when I think something is personal and subjective, or a little more objective and rational.
Thanks
I actually really like the style on you, even if I don’t like the cloth. I own a couple of Orazio Luciano jackets which are among my favourites – but they have somewhat narrower lapels, which I prefer. Orazio do some crazy-wide lapels.
Looks very good to me. What kind of construction was used, if you don’t mind my asking (canvas or no, padding or no, etc)? Was the fabric washed before cutting? It has a nice, soft look that makes it seem like it was washed. I’m planning to have a corduroy jacket made and am debating whether to get it deconstructed so that it can be washed or made the usual way with canvasing, etc.
Good point. It’s a lightweight construction, with canvas in the chest but no padding at all in the shoulder, just canvas running up.
No, the fabric wasn’t washed. It’s just the faded colour.
A deconstructed cord suit can be very nice, though be aware it’s always going to look a little more sloppy because of that lack of structure.
Thanks Simon. I’ll porbably go the way you did.
Thanks Simon. Interesting as always. I have two MTM suits and a jacket from Orazio through the Armoury and I like them lot. I think the style is best suited for a sports jacket (or perhaps a casual suit). The shortness and overall Neapolitan style works really well with the odd jacket combo / jeans etc. It is MTM though so the fit is imperfect and at their price point, I am not likely to go for it again. The fit of my MTM anglo Italian jacket is really good by the way, without any fitting, just one session of taking measurements. Haven’t noticed any issues with the quality of the make. Maybe I was just lucky with that one!
Interesting to have the comparison between Orazio and Anglo. Thanks Jan
Just to add something after another year of wear and coming across this article again: I think the cloth is crucial for this style to work. My OL sports jacket in a vintage cashmere is the most comfortable and best looking thing I own. The OL suit I have in Hardy Minnis Fresco is nice but always feels a bit tight and short. The OL suit I have in H&S crispaire is right in the middle: comfortable but not a lot of space and certainly on the more modern / short end of the spectrum. I think the fabric , colour and possibly also your particular build (shape of the shoulders and seat etc) make this jacket look very tight and high and, frankly, uncomfortable but that’s not my experience with OL at all as indicated above.
Interesting, thanks Jan
Simon, I enjoyed reading this review and I like the jacket. Regarding styling and personal preference, you noted the slim, short cut and a few readers have weighed in on its length. Would you mind sharing more of your thoughts about the length specifically and whether or not you’re satisfied with this aspect? I’m curious, particularly given that it’s a casual jacket. Thanks.
Hi Patrick,
To be honest, no I think I’d rather have it a little longer. Perhaps just a little bit at the front, say a half inch, but a little more at the back, so the balance didn’t slope forward too much. I did lengthen it during the fitting process too, starting from the size 40 I tried on initially in Florence.
I think it speaks to the point I made about style most of all. Given I prefer a slightly longer length, Orazio as a brand is probably not right for me, given I already had to lengthen it and still ended a bit too short.
There is a video here on jacket length, just in case you haven’t seen it.
Cheers
Simon re working /functional sleeve buttons do you feel it is appropriate to leave the bottom button undone as some do or is this deemed showy and best to leave done up/closed?
It’s showy and a bit silly really. It started being done years ago when RTW suits started having working buttonholes again. To make them seem more like high-end suits or bespoke. But few that had bespoke ever left them undone – certainly not to show off such a small thing.
Not sure I agree with showy and silly. It’s all about personal preference and there is no right or wrong. Like having a propelling pencil in your breast pocket.
And how can you say “few that had bespoke ever left them undone”? You make it sound like a fact.
In France and Italy it is very common to see not one, but two buttons undone on bespoke.
Absolutely Myles, it is about personal preference.
However (at least in the UK) the trend started because men wanted to show off the fact that the buttonholes worked – and the ability to do so was marketed as something that made it like bespoke. So it was by definition showy, in that it was trying to show something off; and I think most would agree it’s a little silly to suggest a RTW garment is in any way similar to bespoke because the buttonholes work.
Historically, it is the case that few that had bespoke suits ever left them undone. That’s fairly easy to confirm by looking at photographs from different periods.
If people aren’t leaving them undone today for the reasons mentioned above, then it is much personal and subjective as to whether it looks silly or not. Or rather social – what others think when they see it being done.
I’ve just been prompted to look at the Benson and Clegg website based on the piece you have written about them this morning, and was shocked to see a picture of Oli with two of his four cuff buttons undone. He is evidently much is need of your expertise. Or perhaps he agrees with Myles.
Oli and I need to have words, clearly
Will you also have words with Mr. Capozolli? 🙂 Here just one example: https://www.permanentstyle.com/2017/02/the-friday-polos-are-back-in-stock.html
Yeah, big T’s style is all his own
Gday Simon,
Thanks for the interesting review. I love the look of OL’s house style but do not have the physique for otr , and living in the middle Woop Woop, Straya, my options for neapolitan tailoring are nonexistant. I was however, just checking out the OL website today and saw that they are currently offering a “Digital Trunk Show” to meet with Pino online for an MTM order. Have you heard any talk of this new option? I have only ever heard of online mtm being offered by much cheaper, poor quality/fitting companies. I would assume though that OL would not want to put their name to an mtm service that doesn’t work.
I would be sceptical about how effective it could be too, but I also wouldn’t want to judge it without trying it.
Thanks Simon. I’m still agonizing over whether to take the dive here. Sinply because i do love this neopolitan style and it is impossible to find in Australia as far as I know. I was hopibg you might be able to clear a couple of things up for me though.
I note in sone of your interactions in the comments you have discussed the difficulty in comparing OL mum to bespoke because it is saddled with the drawback of being made in what is essentially a rtw factory. My understanding from other articles around the net is that OL is quite different from other mtm and rtw in that it is still made entirely by hand. Is this not true? Or am I missing something. To me it sound like the only difference at all between OL and bespoke is that they won’t cut a pattern for you.
Also do you (or any of the other fine folk who read these forums) know of any other similar Neapolitan options for Australians?
Thanks Again for all your great content.
No worries.
Orazio is much more similar to bespoke in terms of make, yes. Though not at the level of all bespoke – a more standard Neapolitan make. And not the same pattern development, no.
Simon,
Thank you for the review!
Would you be able to share the fabric info?
I’ve been looking for an odd jacket in corduroy to make up, and I love the uniqueness yet subtlety of the color.
Thanks
It does that very well, doesn’t it?
The code is further up in the comments, though I realise there are a lot now!
It’s Holland & Sherry 187006
I like the color I think it suits you well.
Would love to see a short video of you walking around with it so we can see your garments moving and truly appreciate the fit. This goes for your whole wardrobe!
Noted Thomas, cheers
Thank you Simon!
After looking at the just the swatch – I absolutely agree with you that without seeing it made up I would never dare attempt at making something out of this fabric.
Appreciate the inspiration
Hello, I have a noob question about finishing on a jacket. How can one judge it except the obvious points such as the pick stitching and the handmade button holes. It’s not about the benefits of hand made vs machine made but purely on aesthetics. With shoes it’s very obvious when you compare something like a Yohei Fukuda vs a Crockett and Jones for example
Hey. Good question – there are many things, from the obvious to the very subtle. They include:
– The obvious pick stitching on the outside, around the edges or seams. It may not be there for style reasons, but if it is there, how neat is it and are the stitches fairly tight together?
– Are the buttonholes sewn by hand (the back will be rougher than the front) and if so, how fine are they? It’s much harder to do a thin, sharp buttonhole without threads spreading much around it
– Are there any special touches, like a Milanese buttonhole on the lapel?
– Inside, is the lining attached to the cloth by hand (stitching will be smaller and less regular). And is it then also top stitched down, so the lining is folded over the cloth? That’s purely decorative, and is another line of work.
– Does the facing (the same material as the outside) extend around the in-breast pockets? And if it does, is this unbroken, or is there a seam at the edge of the lining?
– How neat, tight and precise are the jettings on the pockets on the outside? (This is getting into very subtle territory, and something hard for the layman to see)
– How neat and precise are the edges and points, like the corners of the vents on the back, or the tips of the lapels?
All of these are of course easier to see with imagery. Which makes me think I should now do a full post on it!
Thank you Simon for the very detailed answer!
No worries. Thanks for stimulating the thoughts
Just wanted to say you always put different colours together so well. Never generic or typical. I’m interested in style but not to the technical level that is often explored but I enjoy your site for the reference points to consider.
Thank you Richard, that’s lovely to know.
Keep up the good work Simon. You are the best writer / thinker in the men’s attire space.
I had an idea:
What about an expose on materials used for shoes? For example, is lizard a good material? How does it age over time? What are the drawbacks? Etc…
Maybe showing the different grades of crocodile used by various makers.
There is not really good information out there on the topic.
Thanks.
Thanks Raj.
To be honest, I’m not that into exotics, so this might be a little less relevant to me, and perhaps too niche. One of the shoe writers might be better placed to dig into it?
Hi simon, how does your wife see your expenditure with regards clothing? perhaps she may be more accommodating as your job involves reviewing clothing but I’m curious how women perceive their better half dropping enormous sums of money on tailored clothing. I understand there is a range of spenders amongst women but a fair bit I know (including my wife) are contend with buying clothes which are cheap and last relatively long e.g. uniqlo). I only have two sports coat(ring jacket RTW) but my wife was shocked that each cost over $1k.
We might be similar, in that she’s not that into clothing. And before this was my job, it was certainly seen as a bit of an indulgence. But then I also wasn’t earning that much at the time.
Now, as it’s part and parcel of the job, it feels rather different.
Simon, I may be misunderstanding this, but below you say Anglo-Italian does not have a hand-padded lapel. Though in an older post you suggested they did: https://www.permanentstyle.com/2017/05/anglo-italian-jake-grantham-and-alex-pirounis-open-in-london.html
Is this something that has changed with their move to a new MTM operation? Looking forward to your review of them!
No, it was just part of their initial plans for the tailoring, but that later got dropped
Doesn’t Orazio actually make the suits and jackets offered by Saman Amel?
No, not as far as I’m aware. They do make the suits for Jean-Manuel Moreau, whom we have covered. And Saman Amel do use different factories for the different lines – the Napoli line being the one we’ve covered. But I don’t think Orazio makes that line.
Hi Simon
I have one RTW jacket from OL,Fortunately,it‘s fit to me。
about the price,I think RTW is more reasonable than MTM
I had try many brand‘s RTW,like Canali,CARUSO,the fit was good,but when I move like rise my hand,the blance was bad。
I had try the ISAIA,unfortunately it doesn’t fit to me,it is too small than other RTW。
So if like the house cut from OL,and RTW is work to you,I think it will be the good choice, lower price and good balanced is the point.
Thank you, good to hear your experience
Hi, Mr simon. it’s a nice review.
actually, I’m considering Orazio MTO suit, and i’d like to ask you for advice about the Drop of suit jacket.
will you recommend 8 drop rather than 9 drop when it comes to Suit jacket?
i tried 7 and 8 drop, 7 was too loose for me, and 8 was elegant silhouette with a little bit slim feeling.
do you think 9 drop will be too slim and it doesn’t balance with orazio’s wide lapel?
That does sound a little extreme, yes. Perhaps 8 would be best. Bear in mind 6 is still the average
Thank you so much 🙂
Hi Simon, you mentioned that corduroy is a challenging material to tailor. Would you be generally wary about commissioning it as a first piece from a maker? And because of the challenges of corduroy as a material is there more or less value in bespoke versus MTM (e.g. compared to a worsted suit)?
For reference I was interested in a corduroy suit from a Neapolitan maker
I’d say there is potentially less value, yes, as a cord suit doesn’t have to fit that well to look good, and it will never be as sharp and beautiful as a worsted.
But at the same time I don’t regret any of my cord bespoke choices. Perhaps because budget wasn’t that much of a consideration usually
Cheers! Sure, I can understand that, you’ve had some lovely cord pieces. I do think there’s a there’s value there that’s realised over time. Yes, relationships – but also a cumulative value of the idiosyncrasies and appreciation for nuances of bespoke
For me, I’m quite time-poor, hence I wondered if MTM was a compromise worth making in cord.
On a technical point, I know cord doesn’t drape – does that apply to lapel roll too?
No you can still get a nice lapel roll. And to be clear yes I think MTM might be worth it in that case
I could see some collar roll issue in the side view photo- would you say it’s because of the material or a shortcoming of mtm? Thanks
The latter I think
Dear Simon,
In the A&S haberdashery they used to have a dusty pink corduroy DB jacket and I absolutely loved it, first time I ever thought about wearing something so out there.
I have the following question: Given that the fabric by itself attracts a lot of attention, why didn’t you go for a DB? Do you think it works better as a SB, not a DB? Does the colour work for trousers?
I imagine myself wearing a pink cord DB jacket mostly unbuttoned (I know your opinion on not buttoning bespoke).
Best,
P
Yes I know the one Peter, it inspired me and a few others too.
I think on SB v DB, I felt I wanted to stay safe with the style precisely because the material was more unusual, and I think that was probably the right call.
On buttoning DBs, my view is a little different, particularly with something casual. There’s a post on it here.
Extremely nice jacket.
By the way, the full collar of the shirt beneath works well with the jacket’s wider lapels.
Hi Simon, I’m considering to do MTM with Orazio. Can they do much to avoid the collar gap (between back of neck and back of the collar) through the MTM service?
Basically what I’d be signing up for is one measurement, then they deliver the jacket. I note that for the above pink cord jacket, you still ended up suffering from this issue.
It’s hard to know how much that was a personal thing Robert. I don’t think you can expect it to be perfect on MTM though in general