It’s so enjoyable writing good reviews.
It is valuable to write balanced, semi-critical pieces of course, and this is a core part of Permanent Style. But you always feel very conscious of the effect the criticism will have, and bad even if it’s accurate.
Enjoyably, there is almost nothing bad to say about this Saman Amel made-to-measure jacket. It is simply superb, in terms of style, fit, craft and value.
Which is even more pleasurable to say, given what lovely people Saman and Dag are.
I first wrote about Saman Amel in September 2017, when they first came to London. They’ve been here another time since (when we had the first fitting) and Saman is here next month again (February 8-10).
I say fitting, but given this is made to measure and not bespoke, the jacket was pretty much finished at that second meeting. Nothing was basted, with any adjustments requiring opening up the seams.
This restriction of made to measure is one reason Saman says he takes the measuring process so seriously - and that showed at this second meeting.
All the fundamentals were perfect - the balance front and back, side to side, the clean close fit around the neck. I don’t think I’ve ever had a piece of tailoring that fit this well at this stage.
The only things we changed were to balance the sleeve length and put a little more shape in the back.
The jacket was sent a few weeks later, and I showed it to them in Stockholm when we met at the atelier. It was perfect.
As per usual, the photography here doesn’t necessarily do justice to the fit. Until you start moving (or the wind starts blowing) the fit is beautiful and clean through the waist, for example.
And you can see how lovely it is in the back - below. (Bear in mind also that this is a very soft, lightweight jacketing - Loro Piana wool, 320g).
The only thing I might change is to give a touch more space in the waist. It's perfect over a shirt, but doesn't give much room for a little knitwear (as here).
Often adding a bit in the waist like this doesn't visibly change the line, but allows the jacket to hang a little more easily. Making jackets tighter even if it doesn't slim the lines is a frequent mistake men make with bespoke or MTM suits.
These fit points are important, because there are also cheaper jackets in the Saman Amel range that would fit just as well, but involve less hand work.
My jacket is from the Neapolitan line, which starts at £2200 for a two-piece suit. Jackets start at £1800 and mine (in Loro Piana cloth) was £1950.
But the Toscana line starts at £1400 for a suit, and there is even a business-suit range with limited cloths at £1200.
The major difference with the Napoli line is that it has hand-padded lapels, which give a touch more shape to the chest (albeit less that with most English suits, given the lightweight canvas).
The other handwork in the Napoli line includes hand-attached lining, -sewn buttonholes, -attached buttons, -sewn gorgeline, -picked stitching, and -attached pockets.
Plus the functional work you’d expect on any good MTM or RTW suit, such as a hand-attached collar.
Many of these things will be points that Permanent Style readers like and will value. But for others, the Toscana line is a great option.
In terms of style details, it is noticeable how Saman pitches the top of his patch pockets forwards, which makes them more functional (above).
Round Neapolitan patch pockets look lovely, but can often be impractical given the narrowness of the opening. A slanted top solves that problem.
The shoulder is very soft but slightly extended, which gives a subtle impression of width without more padding. The chest is fairly clean and close, and the lapels wide.
In fact, the one thing I would change about the Saman Amel style is the gorgeline, which is very high and - as a result - makes the wide lapel look even wider.
It's also striking how open the foreparts are (below the waist button) but relatively straight - not as curved as some Neapolitans and in keeping with the line of the lapel.
An unusual aspect that was picked up on Instagram a while ago is the strip of lining Saman has included underneath the two vents (above).
This is intended to keep the two sides of the jacket together, and keep the vent in place, when you put your hands in and out of your pockets.
I was initially sceptical about this. It reminded me of those horrendous shirt stays that attach to your socks.
But actually, you never see this strip when wearing the jacket, even when putting your hands in and out, and it functions perfectly.
It’s something Saman would only use on those with a big seat, and it is an issue I occasionally have - no matter how much the vent overlaps.
As discussed in more depth on the first post on Saman Amel, their styling is also a big attraction.
Both Saman and Dag are very fashion aware, and their monotone aesthetic of grey, cream, brown and navy feels very grown-up as well as very modern.
Their input on the cloth selection, as well as the brown corozo buttons and green lining, was useful.
I’ve also tried the made-to-measure knitwear (which I will write about separately) and am rather taken with the cut of the cashmere hoodies, which are more formal than most despite their raglan sleeve.
Lastly, I would say that I am very happy with the cloth selection.
I've long wanted a Prince-of-Wales sports jacket with a touch more texture and some brown in it, to make it a more suitable jacket than my Anderson & Sheppard flannel.
The disadvantage of a grey jacket, of course, is that it cannot go with grey trousers and so is limited to charcoal, cream, green and then tans/browns. But I think that will be enough.
- Cloth: Loro Piana, Jackets and Trousers – Collezione 627 bunch, 320gr/mt, 100% Super 120's wool.
- Tie: Ralph Lauren Purple Label, charcoal cashmere
- Trousers: Drake’s ready-to-wear cavalry twill, from my collection with them
- Shirt: White spread-collar, bespoke from Luca Avitabile
- Cardigan: Grey ‘Finagon’ from John Smedley (my design, sadly no longer available)
- Handkerchief: Yellow silk from Rubinacci
- Shoes: Bespoke oxfords from Cleverley
Saman is back in London for the next trunk show on February 8-10. Appointments can be made through [email protected]. There aren't many appointments left for those days, but they will be back again two months' later.
Photography: Jamie Ferguson @jkf_man
Nice. Agree about the gorge. Also question buttoning stance, which appears to be on your sternum.
It’s not – actually about an inch above my belly button
Well put about the garment, as well as the humble guys behind the brand.
Wouldn’t expect anything less from Dag and Saman. Brilliant!
The jacket looks very nice but I do question the price. There are many bespoke options at that price point.
Agree, though few this good in terms of style and fit.
The best case from a value point of view is the Toscana line from that point of view.
I can think of several UK based bespoke tailors who can make a coat by hand for this amount or less.
Absolutely. As I say, though, many of them would lack some of this hand-finishing (eg lapel buttonhole) and I’d wager pretty much all would lack the style.
Just to test this point a bit more, I think you could get a Solito bespoke jacket for about that price. Given the choice between the two, do you prefer Saman Amel to Solito?
Probably Saman Amel, but again it’s a complete bespoke make against a different style and experience
Interesting you mention experience. You’ve said one of the benefits of bespoke (even with makers with whom you have a well-developed pattern) is the fittings to ensure everything is right. Do you feel your “pattern” with Saman Amel is well-developed enough (including incorporating the tweaks made during subsequent visits) that you would be able to make future orders without any changes? That is to say, will the process for future orders be more akin to ordering shirts, where you select a fabric and receive a fully satisfactory finished product? Do you feel confident this could be achieved?
I feel very confident in the pattern, given how good the fitting was and (particularly) how fastidious Dag is about maintaining and updating records. (Something traditional tailors sometimes fail to do in a paper-based system).
But I would still always want a fitting on a piece of tailoring. Cloths are different, wool moves more than cotton, and the piece as a whole is more complicated than a shirt.
At this price you can get a bespoke 3 pieces suit at Whitcomb & Shaftesbury, going outisde of the base fabric range. Granted it wouldn’t be napolitan style, but it would still be bespoke.
Which would you pike?
As commented higher up, I’m not sure that’s a helpful question because you would pick one or the other on very different grounds. I would get a business suit from W&S most likely and a casual jacket from Saman, but a lot of the differences are subjective style points or questions of lifestyle
Have been looking for something well-crafted in this price range for a long time now. Will definitely try them out. Thank you for the review
Looks really nice. I particularily like how they make classic tailoring look so modern.
I really like them and just ordered my fourth napoli suit. In the beginning they just have Italian cloth but now they also have rustic British cloth like Fox, Minnis and Dugdale.
Happy but not surprised to see that you’re happy with your jacket. Looking forward to reading your thoughts on the knitwear program.
Saman and Dag truly provide excellent service and products throughout, following up on how you like the clothes and how they feel. For instance, a few months ago I was contacted by Dag, just asking how things were and checking whether I was still happy with my commisions from about a year earlier.
As a customer I value and enjoy these kind of interactions, which not only deepens the relationship between clothier/tailor and customer, the ongoing conversation also helps with small improvements and ideas for future commisions. Plus it’s always fun to catch up and discuss non clothing related stuff too, there is a life outside of the bubble after all.
Very nice. I think Saman and Dag proves that premium MTM can be an excellent alternative to Bespoke in terms of fit and make. Couldn´t be happier with my two pieces from them.
Whilst there’s no doubting the excellence of the jacket the price point does raise questions.
Being as this is MTM at a bespoke price point the discussion needs to be does this MTM top a bespoke jacket ?
I think it’s fair to say that while some bespoke could be at this price, the vast majority is not. Outside, say, Whitcomb & Shaftesbury, there is very little bespoke that would have this level of finishing. And there are obviously separate economic reasons for that.
Simon you need to know where to look. Given you never review any tailors outside London, your point of referance is very narrow. Plenty of real bespoke work going on at that price.
And I agree the button stance is wrong. If your belly button is in that area then your trousers are very low waisted.
I don’t review many tailors out of London precisely because there is not much variation – in terms of style, approach, or anything else worth commenting on. Friends that have used such tailors (more than 30 between them) confirm that the only selling points really are price and location.
I wouldn’t have them make a soft-shouldered Italian-type jacket like this anymore than I would with a Savile Row tailor. Or have them comment on style, help build a wardrobe etc. I would with Saman and Dag.
So my guy is obviously not one of your 30. He copied a Rubinacci for me (and actually ended up doing a better job), threw in a Milanese buttonhole, all for less than your MTM.
Think I should keep his name to myself…..
Thanks. Well, feel free but I’d be interested to see that.
Well, if you’re going to a tailor asking them to copy another artisan’s work rather than providing something in a style they’ve mastered over the years
and built up a reputation for, why not just head to Asia? Perhaps it’s easier to remain anonymous if you never venture out from behind your laptop.
Simon, I wonder you continue to post criticism of your work from anonymous posters, most seem to be looking for an argument rather than having a reasonable discussion.
I know what you mean Guillaume, and of course you never see the comments I don’t publish – two overnight I deleted because they were purely critical with nothing substantive to add to the conversation.
I do feel this one added something, but it is a fine line and I always have the general reader’s interests in mind.
I am very satisfied with my Toscana line suit and would recommend to anyone. Not only the suit but also the nice warmth and humour that will meet you when you enter their studio. Only issue is Dag is supporter of Djurgården 🙂 (dont ask).
Very interesting, Simon. I hadn’t had the chance to see their product first-hand so that helps!
How would you rate that compared to Orazio Luciano MTM for instance (whose price varies between retailers but can also be found in this price range)?
I haven’t tried Orazio MTM I’m afraid Paul, so can’t really compare
Can you elaborate on the buttoning on the piece? It looks as if it have 3 button holes but is cut as a 2 button rather than a 2 roll 3. Am I missing something?
Good point – it’s a 3 roll 2, but a slightly more extreme version; there’s not too much roll, though more than the pictures perhaps suggest.
Very interesting piece, thank you. Have been wanting to try Saman Amle for a long time and now I definitely will.
I have a suit from their business line and I am very pleased with it. Birdseye navy cloth. I originaly chose a fabric from the limited business bunch, but it turned out it was out of stock so Saman gave me the choice of a more expensive fabric – without any extra costs!
A very nice jacket. I have a question which is slightly off-subject. I once read in one of your articles that, in your opinion, the only jackets that work with jeans are the Neapolitan ones. I actually have a Cifonelli double-breasted navy blue blazer that I regularly wear with jeans (I also wear it with grey trousers). Is this a faux pas in your view? Thanks
It’s hard to say without seeing it (and ideally in person), but think about the reasoning, rather than the rule. (This goes for all rules!)
I say that Neapolitan-style jackets are generally the only ones that work with jeans because they are soft and rounded enough, and therefore casual enough. Consider whether your Cifonelli jacket is casual enough in this regard (which might also be influenced by things like the cloth)
I think either style of jacket will work with jeans. I have a quite “English” bespoke SB blazer which looks great paired with beaten up 501’s, espresso suede loafers and a simple white shirt.
Thanks Nick. I think we disagree here, but good to have your view
Thank you Simon and Nick for your views.
Let’s be honest with ourselfs. Merley judging from these pictures, everyone of us readers would’ve belived Simon when he would’ve said that this is a bespoke jacket from Tailor X from Napoli. The fit the style and the details are just to good for that. (Maybe the samething with those Trousers)
I agree that for this price you could (or at least almost) go bespoke.
But when you consider mutliple travels and waiting time of 3/4 year or so that price can easily explode.
In my opinion the biggest benefit of bespoke is a certain feeling you get with it. It’s hard to explain to a outsider or could seem foolish. As an example I’ve letten a MTM-Maker copy a pair of my bespoke trousers from my tailor. In therms of fit you wouln’t spot a difference. Same thing for a MTM-Jacket I have from Orazio Luciano. Fit is great, Finishing too. But with both of these I don’t get the feeling I get when wearing a bespoke suit from my tailor. There is something with it words can’t explain. Call me nuts.
I don’t think you’re nuts Jonas. Often the difference with bespoke (at least in jackets) is small aspects of 3D fit or 3D shape from hand padding and hand work that you can’t get with MTM. That create a feeling that certainly can never be shown in photos
Exactly. We would certainly agree that fit and how it looks is the most important thing . This can easily be achieved by MTM.
What I’m trying to say is that a (machine or handmade) MTM-Suit that fits perfectly I have no problem of giving away to a new user after a few years. I would never do that with bespoke. It would break my heart thinking of the tailor investing all those hours making this exact suit specially for me.
Regarding the lapels, how flexible is Saman Amel on the style? Can you request a lower gorge and/or a slightly narrower lapel, or are these fixed?
Good question. I should have put this in the piece – they can adjust the lapel width quite a lot. Generally, what I have is as wide as they would go.
The gorge can be a little lower too, but not a lot. It looks relatively higher on mine because of my sloping shoulders.
So glad the MTM service worked out well for you, Simon! Would you say that Samanamel is comparable to Orazio Luciano in terms of fit and make, given that you’ve tried both? They seem quite similar to me construction-wise, just with different styles.
I haven’t tried Orazio…
Ooops my bad. Any plans to try them in the future?
Not currently, no
Been a customer for years with these guys. I have a suit, a shirt, a pair of trousers and some knitwear. Planning on getting my next suit this week. Nothin but good things to say.
The fit looks perfect and the style is quite unique, both so much that I would thought this was bespoke. It’s not to my taste, but it’s rare to see MTM with so much character. Though it’s not so different from the price of bespoke, the end product is hardly different. If you can get something like this from MTM, the method of achieving it is less important. I don’t mean this to be an endorsement of MTM over bespoke, just that in this case bespoke could hardly do better.
It is worth mentioning that their product is fully made by Munro Tailoring. Their ordering systems, master garments are all Munro. They don’t have any contact with the workshops, because Munro won’t let them.
Same for P. Johnson, all through Munro, only they are partially owner of Sartoria Carrara. Their top line is exactly the same as Saman Amel’s.
It only comes down to taking measurements. Patternblocks, mastergarments, ordering system are all the same. Since so many (and I’m talking A LOT) retailers are supplied by Munro, with the same product, it all comes down to skill. Which they clearly have.
Thanks Bas. We went through this in detail on the previous post (see here)
I completely agree that the most important thing is the taking of measurements.
However, you are wrong on several points. SA don’t go through Munro for communications, and talk to their two different facilities independently. The SA garment is hugely superior to the top-line of P Johnson (I’ve had both, obviously) in terms of quality, style and finishing. And in both these ways their relationship with Munro is very different to other brands.
Very nice jacket indeed. And very nice as it is and looks now. I can’t explain though… but what about peak lapels? Too vintage?
Peak lapels might have been nice, yes, and given the height of the gorge, wouldn’t have made a big difference to the look
My experience with Dag & Saman has only been positive. Just a quick question – how is this the length of this jacket compared to the one you had made by PJT (at the risk of opening up that can of worms again!)? would be curious to know. thanks
This is longer, a more normal length for me
A bit rakish jacket, but a lovely one! I’m amazed by the kind of innovations that have been incorporated in it! This is a reminder of how a very classic item such as a jacket is still being improved in terms of make.
So to you this jacket would be “more suitable” than your Anderson & Sheppard DB. Are you really sure of this propect?
Not my DB – more suitable than the jacket of my three-piece flannel A&S jacket
Any chance you could find the cloth number for the cav twill trousers?
Yes, it’s on that original Drake’s post:
Interesting. Excellent shape at the back – one of the best yet. Sleeves (often overlooked) are also beautifully cut – perfect length, pitch and cuff shape/angle. The transition from sleevehead to shoulder is another feature – given your sloped shoulders (no insult or slight intended) the shoulder shape is also excellent. Issues are the buttoning (a little too tight which throws the button), the lapels are a little wide (I’d be interested in your view of the notch angles) but the patch pockets are awful. The rim angle bows the line out making you look a little pot bellied and odd. Logically, if access were to be easier, the angle would be the reverse (to match the anatomic angle of the hand/forearem – as with every other casual jacket). Lastly, as with others, I take issue with the sweeping judgement that UK tailors can’t achieve this look. It is poor journalism as it is an unsupported supposition undermined by your normative practice of not commenting on something unless you have direct experience – and there are hundreds of tailors across the UK. It also doesn’t look good that you will not venture outside of central London to investigate?
On those points:
– Interesting on the notch angle. It might be nicer sloping more downwards, yes
– I can see your point on the patch pocket, but in practice that’s not how it works. Your arm is too far forward – this angle is easier to access. I see your point on the shape perhaps not being flattering, but I don’t agree it makes much difference
– On the UK tailors, I have tried several that have tried to make a Neapolitan garment (including Graham Browne, Thom Sweeney, Gieves & Hawkes, Richard James etc), seen personally the attempts of about a dozen more, and as I said been given detailed reports by friends that have tried over 30 around the country. The opinion is certainly not unsubstantiated, even if not all of it is personal experience. There can’t be many that could have greater basis for commenting.
The fundamental point is that, unlike Italy, England does not have various different schools and styles of tailoring. All those UK tailors around the country derive from the same traditions, have the same training in the same places, and so on. They are all taught to cut within a relatively narrow range of styles, and all of them are a long way from Neapolitan in terms of not just make but (much more subtly) cut. It’s hard to find an argument why not seeing those tailors around the UK means I’m missing out here – that they wouldn’t have the same issues and barriers as the many tailors on and around Savile Row who have attempted this.
Happy to be proved wrong, and I appreciate your point that I always try to experience everything in person.
You mentioned you have tried Thom Sweeney for Neapolitan garment. From memory the jacket you had made was quite a structured – non Neapolitan one. Have you commissioned one that wasn’t right or have you seen a sample of their work? – (I ask as I am looking at a similar commission at the moment)
Sorry, that wasn’t quite clear. I’ve seen closely a piece being made, and seen several on the cutters.
As with most English tailors making that style, they largely soften the padding and shoulder, and do a spalla camicia on the sleeve. But everything else is English – the shape of the lapel, of the rest of the front edge, the pocket shapes etc etc. To copy these is a question of learning to cut different shapes, curves and angles that you don’t normally get in English tailoring.
It is perfectly possible to do – BnTailor have done a good job, as have the guys doing Prologue, even the Armoury/Ring Jacket to an extent (although there Ring Jacket were helped by having someone running the factory that had been at Kiton). But it’s more complicated and subtle than most people think. You need someone trained in that discipline, or to start taking apart jackets and copying the lines.
From this discussion it seems to me that if demand is great enough one of the Neapolitan tailors might think of trying a shop in London. Maybe a pop-up shop for a period.
Or a UK house might go about developing the expertise to cut and make in the Neapolitan style.
Yes, although remember Rubinacci has been here for a long time now, Marinella has been offering it in their stores, and at least half a dozen travel here – some, like Caliendo, every month
Ah the benefit of local knowledge. Do you think one of the UK tailoring houses will try to develop a Neapolitan addition to their style? It seems like they are letting a line of business drift past. And if the trend to less formal tailoring continues it may become a matter of survival.
A lot of them are trying and have tried, that was my point.
I haven’t seen a good one yet, in the sense of being very similar to it, but the things they have created are still very nice in their own way – as with my Richard James jacket.
What a superb jacket! Saman Amel definitely deserves this high praise.
A point on the gorge: it might just be the way I see the jacket in the photos, but perhaps it’s the angle of the opening that appears too high.
This was a great review! Loved hearing what you have to say about these guys!
Was wondering, since I live in a part of the US that will never see a tailoring trunk show, what you were your thoughts on their cashmere hoodies? What would you wear them with? Are they versatile?
Thanks so much for your thoughts!
I’m having one made at the moment Eric. I think they’re very nice, but don’t feel I can fully comment until I have one
“Hand attached lining”: is it the same as saying hand sewn? I am asking because whenever you mention Cifo and Camps finishings, you mention two steps, one is sewing the other is…attaching??
Yes, hand sewn. One step is attaching the lining, the other is folding it down again and top stitching it
I seems like to closest competitor to Saman price wise, who you have tried, would be Whitcomb & Shaftesbury. How would you compare the two with regards to fit, make and value?
Also, what is the style of Saman’s trousers like? From their website it seems like they tend to make wider pleated trousers, but could they also make a straight slim flat fronted trouser as well if that is what the customer desired?
I haven’t tried the trousers, but yes they can make different styles.
Whitcomb and Saman are different in every way except the price – and I think should be seen as two very distinct choices. The first prioritises classic tailoring, bespoke fit and make, and more formal traditional style. The second softer make, more modern style (more style overall) and much more casual, Italian cuts.
Thanks for the reply Simon!
Would it be safe to say then that, for someone whose budget is in this price range, one could expect to use Whitcomb for things like more formal suits and evening wear, and Saman for more casual suits (linen, cotton) and jackets?
Yes, that would be a good place to start
I have had traditional trousers made by Saman, both with flat front and with pleats. I am pleased with all of of them.
The jacket seems a lovely fit, but I see what you mean about the lapels: it makes it look a little Ron Burgundy-esque.
You stay classy Simon,
Do forgive me if I missed this but where is each line manufactured?
Model block aside, the finishing (and business model) appear remarkably similar to P Johnson…
Made at different facilities in Italy, with Munro helping with ordering systems and logistics. As covered in the previous post, however, and in a comment above, the way they use Munro is very different to most other brands, and the Napoli product is hugely superior to P Johnson in terms of make and handwork.
And is the Napoli product also made in Italy, through Munro, or does the Samanamel team actually makes (part of) the suit?
No they don’t. All in Italy, through Munro, different facility to Toscana line.
It would be great with an article about Munro and how different MTM brands work with their suppliers. For example in deciding fit, style and level of handiwork.
Nice idea, yes
And eventually compare them to Caruso, Edesim,… also I am not sure what their connection to Suit Supply is. Same shareholders?
After looking at their website I can add to the praise: the photography is outstanding, even inspiring. But nothing about coats even though I there are some pictures of their coats on other sites. Do you know if they still offer any?
I think that they still offer coats in their MTM programme. I have a double breasted polo coat from SM that I love.
It’s good that you’ve included a rear three-quarter view which I’d like to see more often in reviews. Of course the front is always important but a shot of the back can reveal a great deal about a coat and its tailor. Collar fit, shaping over the upper back and into the waist then down to the hem can all be assessed (even allowing the usual caveat about judging fit from photographs). Not a criticism as the photography is always excellent here; rather a plea for a view that is often neglected across the industry.
Good point Ian, and I agree (with that caveat).
Personally, I’d also like to do more 3/4 or 1/4 shots, rather than just front, back, side, as this is often where the real shape of bespoke is shown.
Have been ordering a few things from SA and the thing that strikes me the most is how fast and clear their communication is. I’ve heard so many stories of tailoring brands doing custom made that seem to forget about that aspect (which is one I value highly). What’s your perception of this Simon? Of course brands might pay extra attention to you, but what’s you general perception, do tailoring houses forget that service (and not just product) is a big part of making a customer content?
Absolutely. That sense of customer experience has been lost generally – at designer brands, in department stores – but with tailoring houses the key problem is that they don’t appreciate that they are offering a luxury product that should have a luxury experience around it. That doesn’t mean fancy packaging, it just means time spent on communications and establishing a relationship with the customer. Too many of the bespoke houses still see themselves as nothing more than craftsmen.
So if the fit is as good as with your best bespoke tailoring experiences, is it that:
– apart from the fact that their cut is more or less set, the making and construction here is similar to the top bespoke tailors,
– saying that MtM cannot reproduce the 3D fit of bespoke is to be reconsidered.?
No. MTM will always lack something as a result of not having a bespoke cut, most easily described as that 3D element. But as mentioned, that’s more pronounced with more structured suits
Your responses have been very good to the issues raised. To understand why the Italian style (and particularly Neopolitan) is so popular it occurred that with warmer offices and less social formality the Italian style is more suited to current society. The more formal, heavier and structured English cut less so? Also, as Italians are generally shorter and slimmer the Italian cut is more flattering for the slimmer (perhaps more youthful) figure – and hence more likely, currently, to be considered fashionable. I know you have a number of these jackets as single pieces Simon but will you commission more suits in the Neopolitan cut (in a lightweight wool?) for warmer months?
Yes, in general I will
Great article Simon. Thank you.
You would choose a SA jacket over a Solito jacket based on style or quality or both?
Also, have you seen the Cifonelli MTM, how does this compare? Does SA use the same facility as Cifonelli MTM?
Largely style, but it is worth trying to avoid such direct, simple comparisons as there will be aspects of the Solito style that others will prefer
I haven’t tried Cifonelli MTM and have no plans to
Perhaps an interesting alternative to bespoke.
I like the cut and love the lapels. One thing I absolutely hate is the slope of the patch pockets. This is a horrendous mistake, is extremely gimmicky and completely ruins what would otherwise be a classic peace. I’m surprised you allowed this.
With regards to the price point – personally for a garment of this quality, I think it is very competitive and they certainly offer more opportunity for personalisation than say Zegna MTM.
One question I would have is do they have the selection of cloths?
Interesting how strongly people have felt about the pockets. I don’t mind them at all.
Yes, they have a good cloth selection now – though not as many with them as a Row tailor would have, for instance. Worth inquiring in advance if there’s something particular you’re after
Might be worth mentioning you can also provide your own cloth and have them make whatever garment you want out of it.
Simon, what are the shoes you’re wearing in the picture? Are they black? Ive got some cream trousers but I hesitate to wear black shoes with them. This is a problem as most of my shoes are black! Whats your view on this?
They could work with black, but it would be very formal. I’d recommend brown instead, either very dark brown (as these are – my bespoke Cleverleys) or a mid-brown. In general, nice to have it similar to the darkness of tie worn above
Thank you for your excellent review. I was very happy to see this post because I recently received a MTM jacket from Ring Jacket in the exact same cloth. My question is more about the fabric. I love your pairing of the jacket here with the Drake’s x PS tan twill trousers. Just wondering what other trouser and shirt/tie combinations you have in mind for this jacket. I love the color, too. It looks gray in some light, but I actually tend to think of it as a kind of “sandy glen check.” You wear it well!
Thanks. They is some tan in the check.
As I mention at the end of the post, I’d wear it largely with tan or charcoal trousers, sometimes cream or green. On top both blue and white shirts with almost any tie. With most jackets I wear perhaps 20% white only, but here it would be 50:50
Hi,how much shorter is this jacket than say a “classic” Savile Row one?Perhaps,it is just me but it certainly looks it.
A Savile Row coat will vary too, but the answer is not much. Less than an inch
How long (back length) is this jacket? And how long is your brown Caliendo vintage tweed?
Off the top of my head, they’re both around 31.5 inches I think. I can double check though
Good morning Simon. As a professional it is always easy to fall into the trap of making disparaging remarks about other Tailoring houses ( one the less endearing features of the trade). The style of the jacket and some of the technical details such as the high gorge line require considerable levels of technical skill and also note that the lapel is button two roll three which requires a slightly wider lapel and you have to accommodate enough of the check to balance up the the central aspect of the coat. I am not a lover of side slits or that particular style of patch pocket. A tight overlap is a characteristic of Italian Tailoring generally. Overall I think it is an excellent piece and I am sure one you will enjoy for a long time.
Thanks for the review. I agree about the gorge height and lower fronts needing some work. I’d think the patch pocket opening would slant the other way to be most accessible. I do like SA’s monochrome style though.
One grammar issue: Isn’t “as per” redundant, as in “As per usual, the photography…”
What are the advantages of open foreparts? Isn´t it problematic that more of the shirt is revealed?
It’s a style, so there are no objective advantages – it’s all personal and style related. It does reveal more shirt yes, unless you have high-waisted trousers. But it looks rounded, natural and casual, as opposed to the straight, sharp formal look of the Row
Nice Jacket. The breast pocket should be patched too. Now it is neither meat nor fish.
Thanks, but I’m quite happy with patch hip pockets and not breast. It is a very standard style in Naples too
Simon, I am new to your site and apologise for posting off topic but I was uncertain where else to raise my question. In short, I am planning a trip to Naples soon and am keen to see visit a few less well known (but old and established) tailors, shirtmakers and tie makers. Can you give me any pointers?
Have you looked at our shopping guide to Naples, Marc?
I don’t think you’ve tried Eidos MTM but you certainly have seen many examples of their work. Do you think Eidos is comparable to Saman Amel? Which would you choose and why?
I’ve certainly seen examples and it is good, but I can’t really make a comparison having not tried it
Have you been considering them?
Simon, didn’t you order a pair of Eidos linen trousers at a trunk show at some point? I think you mentioned it in the piece on stoffa?
Yes, I did, I’ve just never featured them. They were a little late for last summer…
If you’re thinking of Eidos MTM through Marcus Malmborg I would strongly advise against it.
I waited for almost a year, for a MTM suit I never received, before he offered me my money back. Several others have had the same bad experience as me.
If I could choose again, I would go for Saman Amel.
what was the reason given behind not receiving the Eidos MTM product? I was thinking of having a MTM suit made with them as I liked their ethos and style. Seems strange that they just didnt make it and returned good money to a customer who was willing to pay for something.
Even though he claimed the suit existed and that he had received it from the factory, he had a new explanation every week for why he wasn’t able to pass it over to me.
I won’t go into details, but after several months with different explanations and excuses everytime I asked for the suit I’m starting to think it never existed. He certainly managed to send lots of RTW stuff to other people during the same period….
If you check the google reviews of MM, you can see others with the same experience as me.
thats bizzarre. I suspect from what you say that the factory didn’t do the order, perhaps as they were busy with something else, MM sounds shifty though for making up excuses. I dont mind if ppl say “look im sorry this has happened …” but I dont like Bs artists, as they who knows what else they’ll lie and misrepresent. thanks for the shout anyway.
Did Marcus ever give you a reason as to why the suit was never delivered? Family? Personal? Was it a MTM Ciro suit? I am in the same situation however it has only been 12 weeks and I have received RTW from MM before without issues…
Great looking jacket Simon. What is your standpoint on jetted pockets on sportcoats? I really like the clean look around my waist area, and I think it does draw less attention to my hips (pretty wide). Do you know any cons? less casual perhaps?
Yes, a bit less casual, a bit of a look. And can bag open a little if used.
But I like them too. A nice compromise is to have flaps but just tuck them in.
Are the lapels double stitched, like the patch pockets? Hard to see.
Currently wearing and thoroughly enjoying one of several MTM knitwear pieces from Saman Amel. Any update on as to when we can read your experience with it?
Been delayed on photos, hope to shoot in a couple of weeks with some trousers that are being made too.
Hi Simon, would it be possible to get the fabric number? You’ve inspired me to commission a Neapolitan jacket in the same fabric!
Hi – it’s a seasonal cloth so no longer available I’m afraid.
Thank you for getting back to me – just found your website and it is leagues above anything else on the internet. Big fan of your vision & work!
Is there any other gray Prince of Wales fabric that you’d recommend around this weight range? I found a 250gr/mt Grey Prince of Wales fabric from Loro Piana from the S130 Jacket Bunch (647012) to use in a Neapolitan soft jacket but fear it might be too light to have sufficient drape.
I don’t know another off hand, no sorry. That does sound a little light, yes. Wait until you can see the Loro Piana autumn jacketings bunch
Thank you for your advice.
I am drooling over your BNTailor yellow tweed & Permanent Style tweed odd jackets…those two fabrics are perfection. I am eagerly awaiting Holland & Sherry’s new tweed bunch!
I’m currently considering the 627 bunch for a jacket (same composition/weight as yours). I was wondering if, half a year on, you had any updated thoughts on the cloth? Do you have any concerns over durability? I found the handle of the cloth to be incredibly soft. I feel a fully lined jacket in this cloth should do well for many months of the year in the London climate. Perhaps as close to a 4 season as one can get.
Yes, I agree, and mine has done well. I would recommend it
Hi Simon, I am considering having a jacket made but confess I am a little put off by the cost (I appreciate well made things but struggle to justify “extravagant” purchases – happy to buy common projects, but struggle a bit more with expensive suits for work or items I don’t feel will get regular use). Despite that, I am considering having a jacket made by SA in their Toscana line following your positive review and the fact that it seems comparatively more aaffordable (perhaps in the Caccioppoli jackets 380101 cloth included in your summer cloths article). Is it just as simple as emailing and ask if they carry the cloth? Is there anyone else you might recommend for jackets – with an eye on cost?
Hey Alex. You left this comment on my Dalcuore summer jacket post too, so I have replied there. Cheers
Could you provide the collection and fabric # for the SC? The pattern is called a glencheck, correct? I like the spacing of the squares – I’ve seen glenchecks with the patterns more compressed and tight, making it too busy for my eyes. This particular pattern is very visually pleasing!
The bunch and other details are in the post Bernie. I can try and get the cloth number if that’s not enough, though it won’t necessarily still be available
No need – I must’ve missed it thanks
Hi Simon – have you had anything made by Anglo Italian? Heard great things, would be interested in your take.
Only a pair of jeans, no tailoring yet
Hi Simon. Beautiful jacket. Also very natural looking glen that doesn’t peacock at all – at least from the photos and how you wear it. I have 8 Neapolitan jackets all in conservative colours (navy or grey), patterns (plain, herringbone, Donegal). I guess my concern has been there is more to go wrong with glen – resulting either in something too old fashioned, or too loud, or too subtle it becomes formal. Somehow you have stuck the balance here perfectly. Any considerations for glen / PoW newbies on critical variables and relationship with formality and suitability for jacket vs knock about suit, eg: background colour, glen colour/contrast with background, size of pattern, surface interest. Gratefully.
Hi. I know what you mean about glen checks.
If you have a lot of conservative tailoring, though, I guess there’s not too much of a problem if you get it too subtle. It would just be a texture/pattern like herringbone or donegal.
One thing to bear in mind is the size of the check – bigger is more casual. So perhaps go for a bigger check (as this one is) in more subtle colours with less contrast.
The other piece of advice I’d have is to go for softer, more casual colours. So not black on white, but dark brown on cream perhaps, or with some brown or tan in the pattern (as this has).
Hope that helps.
Very helpful thanks so much Simon. I think I am ready to take the plunge. Lastly is Caliendo still your No 1 Neapolitan tailor for sports jackets? I am beyond happy with jackets from Elia but wondered if others had taken the top spot in your rigorous rankings.
I’d put Ciardi up there too now
Do you have any experience with their (raglan) overcoats?
Curious to hear your opinion on this.
I’m actually in the process of having one made… Haven’t worn it yet so hard to say too much, but I do like the style, and the cloth in particular
This is a beautiful jacket indeed and the make seems superb.
However, I found interesting that the lapels seem to have significant belly and not much roll as opposed to what you usually see from the Neapolitans. Similarly the quarters are open but again not as curved. Wouldn’t you say the end result is similar to your Richard Anderson jacket in that it is essentially an effort to replicate the Neapolitan style but that it fails in that it ends up retaining significant aspects of the English cut?
It’s certainly not fully Neapolitan, but I’d say it was more central Italian than English. It’s still fairly curved, with a broader shoulder and wide lapel.
The Richard Anderson tux wasnt an attempt to recreate Neapolitan – do you mean Richard James?
If so, yes I agree that that wasn’t Neapolitan but it wasn’t aiming for that, merely to make a softer Richard James cut.
Thank you. Yes, I meant Richard James. In any case I think that jacket is still one of your best. You have said often that one should never ask a tailor to do something too much outside of their house style and I could not agree more but it is interesting how some tailors seem to be expanding the styles they offer. I have usually had soft jackets made by Solito but am now getting one made by Thom Sweeney in their softer style. I suspect it would end up looking similar to your soft Richard James or maybe this Saman Amel.
I think you’re right, yes. Good to see people expanding too, but still being aware of what they can do well
Myself intend to pull the trigger on the Split Raglan as well – I am interested in knowing what fabric, color, weight you choose for yours Simon?
Their entry line fabric is a collaboration with Dugdale i believe and i was under the impression it was wool but everywhere on the internet who had a post on this topic say its cotton – would you have any insights on this?
Another comment to this fabric is that it seems to be water resistant/repellent which you often talk about is making a sacrifice of drape, feel, look etc. which are all characteristics i personally love and don’t want to sacrifice for water resistance.
Last year i had a single breasted made in wool/cash as background.
You speak highly of Brown and Green but myself prefer to go with navy, do you have any suggestion for me?
I chose the Loro Piana grey twill, it’s really nice and I’d recommend it.
I can’t comment on the Dugdale material – I did see it but I can’t remember the details I’m afraid. If you want a warm coat though, I’d certainly go for wool.
Water-repellent treatments can affect drape and feel, but I think it’s something you can assess when you feel the cloth. If you like how it feels, don’t worry about that treatment at all.
And on colour, navy is always a great starting point. If that’s your instinct then I’d stick with that.
Based on my understand, tan jacket would be more versatile than a grey jacket because it pairs well with grey trouser. I saw this jacket wore by Alan See and am wondering if you were to pick a prince of wales jacket again, would you go for a tan or a grey one (featured in this post) and why?
Probably a tan or brown one – like the one Alan is pictured wearing with a tie, alongside Jake
Would you consider the brown glen check jacket under “Patterned Blazer + Neutral, Smart Trousers” as too bold? Would you recommend this over the jacket Alan was wearing? Cheers
Yes I think that would be rather bolder, for the size and contrast of the check.
Fab jacket. Given this is RTW it fits you (and suits you) far better than many (nearly all) of the bespoke examples that you have shown previously.
Not sure why the cloth prevents you from wearing grey trousers though. It’s not exactly a John Major / Spitting Image combination. A coloured shirt or tie (or knitwear) would add an appropriate contrast.
This isn’t RTW, it’s made to measure Chris. And a high level of MTM too.
As for grey trousers, it’s because you never want a jacket in trousers in too similar a colour. Looks like a mismatched suit
What is the lapel width Simon ?
Also, it seems that some 3-roll-2 jackets have more roll (partly obscuring the top button hole) than this one. I wonder if this is something that can be explained to the tailor.
I think it’s 3.75 inches. And yes you’re right, some definitely have more roll than others, but it’s not something I would try to get a tailor to do differently – you can mention it, but to be certain I would only commission something from someone where you’ve seen a roll you like. Similar to other more complex tailoring points like the shoulder
Of all your remarkable coats, Simon, this is my favorite. And it’s MTM, correct ? Fantastic Great craft, Saman.
Given your positive experience with Saman Amel, what would the benefits be for going with Caliendo as opposed to Saman Amel for a casual jacket?
ps. will you ever do a tailor style guide for your Caliendo bits?
The benefits are really the benefits of bespoke over MTM. We went into those a bit here, but I’m also planning a fuller piece on the technical aspects of it
Awesome, thank you once again simon!
Any suggestion on cloth for a Sport Jacket in Dark Blue / Navy – Might proceed with an order for a Jacket in their Napoli line.
Preferably, it would be an all year round jacket and I am not sure if that restricts the cloth to Hopsack / Fresco like fabrics but any tips are valuable. I would say its a bit more important to be able to use the jacket in a summer setting but should work in the winter with heavier trousers such as flannel.
If you want something that year round, I’d look to a lightweight wool, like 9 or 10oz. My Solito jacket here is like that, and works very well.
Loro Piana do some good wools in that range.
Thanks Simon o the weight! Any specific suggestion from Caccioppoli or Loro in Dark Blue / Navy? Its just so easy to go down the Hopsack route but not sure i want that.
No, sorry, I haven’t looked at the bunches for a good while. But yes, you’ll find a light wool more useful than hopsack probably
Hi, I just checked out their website after reading this post and saw this:
“All Atelier Saman Amel suits are crafted in Italy by the hand of skilled craftsmen. Each suit requires around 40 hours of handwork to complete. The unique silhouette created for each individual client is created through an advanced measurement process involving both body measurements and fitting garments. Options in terms of design, fit, fabric and finish are immense to cover all seasons and occasions. The Atelier Saman Amel team guides the client carefully through the selection process in close dialogue with the client at hand. Price upon request.”
Does this mean they no longer work with Munro?
Why would it mean that Jeremy?
FYI, Munro is an agency that uses factories all over the world, including Italy and China
The cut (especially the lapels/gorge) reminds me a lot of the Orazio Luciano style. Have you ever seen a similarity there?
Yes, although a lot of modern Neapolitan brands and factories do that style – straight lapel, so curving out, quite wide, high gorge. And it is a little different to my Orazio
Hi Simon. It is a really nice jacket. I was also looking for a grey (with hints of brown) prince of wales jacket. A couple of tailors have shown me samples and they are all flannel. I think I remember you mentioning in another article that you do not like to use flannel for odd jackets. Is your jacket flannel or a different type of fabric? As I am visiting W&S soon for some long overdue fittings, and possibly a new order, what type fabric can I ask them to look for? Or maybe in this case flannel is a good choice?
Flannel usually isn’t great, no. Sometimes there are exceptions, but usually it is finished to be sleeker and better for a suit or trousers.
You’ll be looking for a lightweight wool jacketing. There is no clear category there (these things are not that comprehensive or clean) but look in jacketing bunches, around this weight
I wonder if Saman Amel’s style of “Neapolitan” enough for a jacket (not necessarily this one) to be used with jeans ? I have a Solito jacket and I would like to order another one but I need to travel to London or Naples which is a hassle (I’m in Stockholm). I do wonder if the style is casual enough to work with jeans though.
In my personal opinion, no I don’t think it is, as I had it made here.
However, I saw the guys this week in London, and tried on their completely unstructured jacket for the first time. That type of jacket would be casual enough I would imagine. Though you’d want a more casual material than most of the ones the guys offer, which tend to be more luxe.
Nice jacket! When I see the jacket, I get a picture in front of my eyes: a double breasted in the same cloth and together with dark blue jeans. Perhaps less versatile but wouldn’t this jacket be beautiful in double breasted as well?
I really like mid grey jackets, but they’re quite hard to match I think.
It would certainly be beautiful as a double breasted, but in either formulation it would be too smart for jeans, for me
Simon, do you think this jacket would work well with a range of trousers? Eg brown or charcoal flannels, brown or charcoal corduroy, dark or mid-wash denim? It seems a great and versatile cloth choice -‘is there some brown in with the grey?
There is some brown in there, yes, but not a lot. It does work with the smart trousers you mention, but not really with denim I don’t find. I think that needs a more casual material
Simon, apologies if I am adding on to an older article with this question. I have followed your advice quite closely am looking to commission a suit for primarily work purposes (I am an accountant). I am price conscious and earn about half the average salary of your readers (based on your last survey).
I have narrowed it down to Ciardi, Saman Amel and Whitcomb & Shaftesbury. Correct me if I am wrong, but all three (for MTM) are in the same price range, with Ciardi being the most expensive but the more affordable of the bespoke tailors you have tried? Would it be fair to say, in your opinion, the quality of construction and skill of all three are fantastic (and equal?) with the choice really coming down to which cut and style appeals most to me?
Thank you, as always!
Not at all Michael – that’s the whole point! Old posts become great reference resources (unlike social media feeds) and only become more useful as people add to them.
On those three, Whitcomb and Ciardi are bespoke – Saman Amel is MTM. It’s a small difference at that quality, but an important point to make.
However, he biggest difference is certainly style, and I would pick largely on that basis. Also access, ie how easily will you be able to see that maker again, and have things altered or looked after in the future.
Too kind of you, Simon!
Right, with bespoke edging out for both fit and construction. Ciardi is now £3,000 a suit, Saman Napoli £2,700 and W&S £2,300. It’s being able to justify that extra £300/£700 (which is quite a difference for me).
I like Ciardi for its wider lapels, its soft shoulders, and of course, the story behind the brand which you have contributed so much towards. You also make a valid point about how often you can get things altered and adjusted – with W&S obviously having that advantage.
Not an easy choice. Anything else you can add from your wisdom and experience to make the decision any clearer/easier?
Yes, I’d say Whitcomb is considerably smarter, being English in cut. Also with Whitcomb that price is for overseas make, so consider whether you care about that or not.
After that mostly design
I have several suits from W&S and a couple of items (admittedly not tailoring) from Saman Amel. I sympathise with the difficulty of making this choice!
I honestly believe that the style is the most significant factor that should drive your decision. I would recommend looking at examples of their work (e.g. several of the “reader case studies” include tailoring from Saman Amel) and, if possible, talking to them to get a feel for who you like the most (this, after all, a relationship business).
If you’re willing to entertain an additional option then you could also consider Anglo Italian. Simon has reviewed their MTM but they also have a new bespoke offering. It’s slightly more than Ciardi but also based in London if you’re keen on that. It also has the advantage that you could start with their MTM and only commit to bespoke once you’ve confirmed if the style is for you. I assume this isn’t appealing (if nothing else because you could replicate this idea by starting with the slightly less expensive line from Saman Amel and that’s not an option you list) but thought I’d mention the possibility just in case!
Although I think style should really drive your choice, I’d be lying if the timetable wouldn’t affect me in your shoes (especially if there is an important date that you’re working towards). Good luck with your decision – I’m sure all of the choices would make a wonderful suit for you.
Simon – did my follow up comment get deleted?
No Michael, it’s just that I approve and publish everything myself, and I was working on something else the past hour
Can Saman Amel now offer their customers MTM jackets with the gorge lower as you suggest?
I don’t know I’m afraid. Best to ask them
To me, it looks like the jacket’s features bear resemblance to those made by Sartoria Carrara. Especially, the side pockets. Nice jacket.
Simon, just wondering whether you knew where Saman Amel prices were at now compared to four years ago? Thank you!
I know they’ve gone up, but I’m afraid I don’t know what they currently are, no. Have you asked them?
Have just done, thank you! Starting prices now are (two piece suits):
Toscana 2400€ (~£2000)
Napoli 3300€ (~£2750)
Hmm, that is quite a large increase isn’t it?
Indeed. Jackets are 2200€ and 2900€ respectively which is somewhat surprising given trousers are 750€ and 900€, making separates much more expensive than a suit.
Yeah that roughly 50% price increase over 4 years makes it a little bit prohibitive I must admit.
Hasn’t the price of tailoring gone up everywhere though?
That’s not true. I have bought a jacket and suit from them during the last year and it was around 1400 EUR for Toscana.
I have recently received three new jackets. Price approx €2800-3400 (Toscana—> Napoli) but I can honestly say they are absolutely stunning. Incredible fit, so much better than the erratic experience I had with Neapolitan artisans
Simon, how versatile would you say this cut is, compared to say Anglo Italiam MTM and PJT MTM? What I mean is, is it easy to mix/match with a wide range of trouser styles from different makers or would it only go with the house aesthetic?
No I think it would go with anything. I would wear any of those with jeans myself, but those three are similar enough in style not to make a difference to versatility
Are you still happy with the jacket? Have you used it a lot? I am thinking if I should order the same or a similar cloth at Saman. Thanks.
I am very happy with it in terms of quality and fit. I do wish the gorge could be a touch lower, and I don’t find the cloth that useful – nothing wrong with it, I would just wear a herringbone, for example, more. It’s a personal style question really.
Hi Simon. Is this type of cloth considered a tweed? Or flannel? Or maybe neither?
When I asked my tailor to show me grey prince of wales or glen checked fabrics, he only had flannels, and I remember from other articles that you said flannel is not really good for odd jackets.
It’s certainly not a tweed – it’s a wool with a slightly flannel-like finish.
The problem with all these names, though, is that they are just approximations of a bunch of characteristics. You can get materials that are great for jackets which have a flannel finish. But they will be woven more loosely than what people normally call flannels – because those are made for suits and trousers.
Have a look in the jacketing bunches of Italian mills like Loro Piana, Zegna, Drapers, Caccioppoli etc and look for glen checks like this.
Very nice jacket Simon. I am looking to make a spring weight jacket. I really like the fabric of the Samal jacket. A couple questions:
1. Is there another color in this jacket outside of grey and dark grey
2. My other choice of fabric is a mid to light brown with a large check pattern. Do you feel the grey or brown is more versatile?
1. Yes there’s a little blue and brown in there too
2. Both grey and brown are great – it rather depends what else you’ll wear them with. I talk about that on the five jackets piece
Given that the price of the Napoli line is now starting at over 2500 pounds, would you still consider this good value?
Is that for a suit? Certainly the higher the price goes, the less it’s good value, but at the same time there is very little competition that is hand-padded MTM
It’s for a jacket, starting at 2900 euros. Suits start at 3300 in the Napoli line. I have also been considering a jacket in the Toscana line starting at 2200 but having some difficulties estimating whether this makes sense anymore as the prices have gone up and it’ still MTM. Would greatly appreciate your thoughts on it.
Yes that is considerable for a jacket. There’s obviously very little bespoke for that kind of price, and their MTM is not far off it with the excellent fit and the hand padding etc. Plus it makes more sense if you like their style.
So I’d still say it’s worth it, but the difference between that and some bespoke options has narrowed with the increase in prices
Thank you, that helped a lot.