Introducing: The dark navy Donegal
For our new iteration of the Donegal coat, I wanted to create a version that was the easiest possible colour, weight and pattern to wear. Readers ask so much about versatility - about having one good coat - so I knew making something that could be smart and casual, office and weekend, would be welcome.
The colour, therefore is dark navy; actually a combination of navy and black in the herringbone. There’s a reason navy is the menswear staple, and in the images here I’ve tried to show how that works with both smarter clothing and jeans.
The pattern is herringbone because it creates visual interest (also helps with the versatility) without being a bigger pattern. And the yarn is a slightly lighter merino than the previous Donegals - 680g rather than 720g. This makes it a touch smoother (easier with suits) and a very versatile weight.
Given how popular the article was on jackets that substitute for coats, I know a lot of people are looking for a lighter-weight option, particularly as the world in general warms up. At 24oz, this is a solid mid-weight for a coat.
Here’s a link to buying the coat by the way - I know people say we don’t always include that high enough.
The style of our Donegal - the most popular and probably influential thing we’ve done - is also of course what makes it versatile. The simple fly front and collar mean it doesn’t look dressy with jeans, even in this dark navy.
The outfits hopefully illustrate these points. The coat looks good with my very battered blue jeans above (vintage LVC ones that someone has clearly worn from raw), and would do with a simple white or grey T-shirt as well.
But it’s also effective with a ‘casual chic’ look of dark-brown flannels and a black knit. Those are my Fox char-brown flannels, a Rubato lambswool sweater and black Shanklin boots from Edward Green in the shots below.
I know this is as smart as many people dress these days, so I wanted to include it as an option. I also don’t think readers will have any problem imagining it with a navy or grey suit and tie.
As I’ve commented in the past, a good indicator of the versatility men’s outerwear is whether it can be worn with black and brown shoes. Those two are a decent read on the rest of the outfit, and this coat could equally be worn with dark-brown chukkas, even though both pairs shown are black.
Something else I think it’s worth mentioning is that this dark-navy Donegal would compliment the other colours of outerwear we’ve done in the past - other than the flecked navy Donegal or Bridge Coat.
Readers often ask about that, given our outerwear made by the wonderful Private White VC has been going for seven years, and many already have one piece from the collection - whether it’s the brown, grey or charcoal Donegal, the English Tweed, a Trench Coat or the Wax Walker.
Most don’t want coats that overlap in colour or formality, and the new dark-navy I think would compliment all those non-navy pieces. It’s certainly an easier combination than those readers last year who questioned whether they should get both the English Tweed and Donegal in mid-grey.
We shot the coat in Oxford, both in my college (Trinity) and the city as a whole. It was nice to go back, and it wasn't too hot fortunately, despite it being August.
This of course is also a question that always comes up - what temperatures could you wear this coat in?
It's a hard one to answer because people vary so much - I feel the cold more than most but don't overheat that easily for example. But in general I find this weight of coat is fine in the UK until the real depths of winter, so around freezing.
I just layer up - a thick knit underneath, a T-shirt or undershirt, wool socks and boots, a big scarf and a cashmere watch cap.
And right now in London, with temperatures around 12 degrees and some light rain, I wear the Donegal over a light knit or even just a shirt. Perhaps a knit in the bag or over the shoulders - much like the Rider's Raincoat discussed a couple of weeks ago.
I'm wearing a Medium size in the coat here, and will have it lengthened by a couple of inches at some point (there's good inlay for alterations - unlike most coats). I could wear a Large, but it would be much drapier, a little too big for just a T-shirt or shirt on its own. More sizing info below.
The clothes shown are:
- Navy and black Rubato lambswool crewnecks
- Vintage Levi's LVC jeans
- Whitcomb & Shaftesbury flannels in Fox char-brown cloth
- Shanklin boots from Edward Green in Utah leather
- Piccadilly loafers from Edward Green in calf leather
- Hermes 90x90 silk scarf
- Vintage Ralph Lauren cap
- Vintage Lock & Co suede cap
Ordering:
- The coats are available at William Crabtree in London for the next couple of weeks, to try on if you would like to. Purchases are then made online. They will also be at our London and New York pop-up shops.
- At the moment it is exclusively available through Permanent Style, on the webshop here. Private White VC will also have the same coat on sale from a week today. Of course, we always appreciate it if readers buy direct from us.
- There are sizes from XS (chest 46, size 2) up to XXL.
- Have a close look at the measurements below if you're unsure of sizing, and if in doubt compare them to a coat you already own.
- The fit is pretty standard, however, so taking your normal size is usually safe.
- I am six-foot tall and usually wear a size 50-chest jacket. I am wearing a Medium (4).
- As with all PS products, there are free returns should you want to change sizes. Ships from the UK.
Alterations
- The coat deliberately has more inlay than other RTW coats, increasing the possibilities for alteration.
- Length can easily be shortened - up to 10cm without interrupting much of the balance. It can also be lengthened slightly, by up to 5cm.
- The sleeves can be lengthened by around 4cm if required.
- And they can be shortened. Shortening by 1.5cm would be easy - more than that would require the wrist strap to be moved.
- The sleeve width can be increased from bicep to cuff up to 2.5cm.
- The body - chest, waist, and hem width - can be increased by up to 4cm in circumference.
Measurements:
| X-Small/2 | Small/3 | Medium/4 | Large/5 | X-Large/6 | XX-Large/7 | |
| Chest | 50.5cm | 53 | 56.5 | 60 | 63.5 | 67 |
| Waist | 52 | 54.5 | 58 | 61.5 | 65 | 68.5 |
| Bottom hem | 58.5 | 61 | 64.5 | 68 | 71.5 | 75 |
| Length | 108.4 | 109 | 110 | 111 | 112 | 113 |
| Sleeve | 81 | 82 | 83 | 84 | 85 | 86 |
| Cuff (width) | 13.8 | 14.1 | 14.5 | 14.9 | 15.3 | 15.7 |
Simon, this coat is fabulous. Again, not a huge need for an overcoat in Sydney, but I find when I do, the only one I own – a rather formal bespoke DB with strong shoulders and nipped waist – only works over a suit, so I could be tempted here.
I own the Wax-Walker in a size 3, which is perfect; great over a chunky knit and doable over a sport jacket. Would you suggest a 3 in this coat too, on that basis?
Yes I would. Worth double checking measurements to be sure, but I would expect you to be the same
+1 on that. I own both the Donegal Coat and the Wax Walker in the same size. And I would say that the Donegal is a bit larger (especially if you compare to the Walker with the lining in).
Lovely coat! I am sure it will be very versatile!
The trouses look a lot like flannels (Fox Charbrown?) and not chinos. They are lovely as well (as would the chinos probably be)!
Thank you! Yes you’re right, I’ll update that
Amazing. I’ve had my eye on the Donegal for a while and came close to ordering the grey version a few times. After seeing the teaser post last night, I set a reminder for this morning and made the purchase right away. The combination of versatility and casual elegance in navy? Yes please! Love that it’s roomy as with the bridge coat I was stuck between a 5L and a 4M and had to sadly return both. Well done Simon, this will become a smash hit I’m sure.
Fantastic, thanks O
Happy to see it arrive, it looks very nice. I personally would’ve preferred a tonal lining to the gold, but I guess that’s sort of a signature thing by now 🙂
Yes, very true
Based on the first photo, I sense an upcoming article about the stylishness (or lack thereof) regarding distressing on denim. Or perhaps that would be too incendiary a topic…
Never shy away from those! Yes a nice idea. We did discuss that a bit on my ‘Wear loafers with jeans’ piece as that also featured some holey denim. But be nice to give it some real air
Hi, thanks!
Do you know if there any shops in Stockholm where one could try it on? Or your other coats, to get the size right?
No, sorry Erik, we’re an online brand – we do pop-ups in London and New York to give people a chance to try sizes, but we don’t do wholesale to other shops
I think “Tweed” in Sthlm, Vasastan sold the Donegal coat last year at least. I guess maybe cause they sell Private white clothing?
They didn’t Axel – our collaborations are never available anywhere else
Actually they are (by mistake or not, I dont know). I bought the Bridgecoat in the store named Tweed a year ago and they have also sold the mid-grey Donegal (both PS collabs). I actually saw that they have one size left of the Donegal last week (dont know the size).
Ok, got clarification. That’s old stock, we don’t sell wholesale to anyone currently
It’s available at Tweed along with your pea coat. https://tweed.se/products/private-white-vc-the-donegal-tweed-overcoat-black-white
Thanks, yes we established that this is old stock from a few years ago. We don’t do wholesale any more, and only did to two or three places back then
Hi Erik,
FWIW I know Tweed Stockholm who sells PWVC has sold the grey herringbone and bridge coat in the past, could be worth seeing if they have the old one to try on for size.
The fabric is beautiful, but for some reason the coat doesn’t “speak to me” in this iteration. Not really a problem as I already own the brown edition and the most recent black/cream herringbone… but it does surprise me as normally I’d expect to be lusting after this one. Not sure why not – it could be that the colour is so dark that it’s actually too understated for my tastes!
That may well be the case Paul. We’ve had several people try it on in the William Crabtree shop the past two days, and it’s gone down very well with those that want ‘a good coat’ but don’t want to be so noticeable or say so much. The others tend towards your black/cream instead. Nice to be able to cater to both
hi Simon, I understand where Paul is coming from. I feel like in making the coat more versatile, you had to make some compromises that make it — for me — less interesting. (I own the black/cream version and love it.) A raglan coat is by definition rather casual, and making it in dark blue cloth is making it almost as formal as you could. It seems to be in a sort of middle ground between smart and casual that in my opinion doesn’t quite work. To my eye at least, it still is too casual because of the shoulders and cut to work with smart outfits (suits, cashmere jacket and trousers) but not casual enough because of the color and lack of texture to work with casual outfits (tweed, jeans, etc).
In my opinion, the black/cream and original brown work best for this coat, as those fabrics are the best match for the relatively casual raglan cut. But they are certainly not that versatile – I wear by black/cream from anything ranging from jeans to tweed jacket and trousers, but it doesn’t work for me with anything smarter than that.
Thanks for the thoughts Andrew. A raglan is more casual, but it also works with this cloth, and I like it with both jeans and tailoring in the same way.
It’s interesting actually, doing the Crabtree shop the past couple of days has really cemented feelings around quite a few of the coats, and we’ve had quite a few people for whom this is the perfect coat
I was one of those people who wants a ‘good coat’ and don’t want to say much with it. Very nice experience on Friday morning trying it on and meeting Simon and Lucas, and James of William Crabtree Thank you all for being so friendly and knowledgeable, it was a delight. My expertise lies elsewhere so I’m happy that others have what it takes to make the many decisions that go into something as well designed and constructed as this coat, which feels just right for me. I intend to wear it for as many decades as are left to me.
Thanks Ian, it was lovely to meet you
I can see where you’re coming from too. I think it looks nice, but on paper, it’s like my dream coat. I Love it, but I wasn’t as blown away as I expected to be. Now that may be down to my own expecations, but I also expect this fabric, even more, has to be experienced to be fully appreciated.
Simon, you mention it’s smoother to the touch than previous versions, I take it this is more akin to a regular woolen coat in touch and feel?
Yes I’d say so
Oxford provides such a lovely backdrop to the photos. Each time I visit I feel lucky to be there, walking around the stone clad buildings.
I’m biased, obviously, and I would say it’s become far more touristy in the past 20 years, but I agree it’s wonderful. Particularly to be at a college and within that world
Any good men’s clothes shops you can recommend in Oxford? I’m going there next month.
Jon
Not really I’m afraid
Did you get a chance to look at Burrows & Hare? Aside from them, Ede and the Turl shops it’s slim-pickings
Hey Simon,
Of all the iterations, would I be right in thinking you are least enamored with the flecked navy Donegal?
Not sure why I think this — perhaps paranoia (I own the flecked navy), or maybe it’s because the black and cream version was such a huge success and that’s the one I see out and about. Was the flecked navy more flecked than you expected, so you revisited the idea of navy — and created something more plain and appealing to a wider audience?
Hey John,
I don’t think it’s a question of liking the iterations more or less, more one of unusual vs subtle styles, and what people prefer. The flecked navy was probably the most unusual we’ve done; the new plain navy is the most straight; and the black/cream sits in between.
Just sitting in William Crabtree today, I’ve met readers who fall into each of those three categories
Lovely combinations with the coat, Simon. What size did you take in the Rubato crewnecks?
Thanks. Medium – ideally I’d have a couple of centimetres more length, but the fit is perfect otherwise
Interesting how many iterations of this coat you’ve been able to do while staying tightly within the classic menswear color palette of blue, grey, and brown (thinking about it more, I guess this could be said for almost the whole PS range). Looks great!
Yes, true. And thanks!
Thank you to Simon and William Crabtree for the beer and hospitality at the pop up on Thursday. It was a pleasure to meet Simon (and other guests), and really useful to have the chance to try all the coats without the potential inconvenience of needing to send any back.
I was lucky enough to try to 3 of the PS coats (wax walker, the new Donegal and the reversible suede bomber). They are great products which doesn’t make decision making easy, and I am sure the new donegal coat will do very well. My only regret is not asking Simon for guidance on which coat to go for!
With regards to comments on a previous recent article, I’m reasonably tall and wouldn’t be concerned at all by the new, reduced length of the wax walker.
Beautiful color variation in that herringbone. Wow!
Thanks Ben
The brown cap with the blue coat (collar turned up), always such a great combination, a great look.
Cheers
Hi Simon, I bought the grey donegal last year, and I love it! I’ve received many compliments. There’s only one issue—the collar doesn’t stay up. The back of my head hits it and it falls down. Any advice on getting it altered so it stays up?
The collar is pressed flat when you first get it, so it does want to lay flat. I find the best thing to train it the other way is to keep it up when it’s hung up, and even button the top button so it stays like that all the time it’s not used.
You can also iron it to stay up more, but that shouldn’t be necessary. And always keep in mind a little natural variation in the collar is nice, you don’t want it straight up and rigid
I love the look of the new navy, I do regret not trying it on while I was in William Crabtree, I can certainly see it being a perfect coat for those who want something smart that you could wear with tailoring, though I’d probably avoid wearing it with a hard finish worsted myself.
Nice to hear. It will be in there in Crabtree until October 29th (it’s just Lucas and I won’t be)
Simon, this post got me thinking. I’m coming to London in mid November. Is a jumper over a shirt and topped with a Barbour quilted jacket sufficient, or would you recommend something heavier?
London is very variable Benn, this is your challenge. I’d check the weather closer to the time. Unlike say the East cost of the US, the weather is a lot less consistent – it’s why we talk about it all the time!
The best picture is the beer drinking pic. It has an authenticity about it.
It was the first beer of the day. It was blummin’ lovely
Just popped in today to try on all of the coats, a really nice selection – congratulations Simon, must be lovely building up the products.
The reversible suede is fantastic – I think the more relaxed bomber style goes really well. Since trying it on I think it compares really well vs the valstar shape, which I would have always thought as being my ultimate suede jacket. Whilst still having a great shape, it’s a much more relaxed fit that made me feel like it was wearing the jacket and not the other way round.
The Wax Walker felt to me like the jacket most in keeping with the PS ethos – best in class. The colour is a great alternative to the standard dark green option for other waxed jackets. The number of small details that improve it vs other options are really telling. The stud buttons on the vent were the most noticeable, but there’s so much to like. I forgot to bring a sports jacket to check length, but it looked like it would be absolutely fine – for context I’m a size 5 and 6’3” /191cm. I imagine the old cut would have been fine on me, but this one definitely didn’t feel short at all.
Hot on its heels was the bridge coat, which I’d say is another example of being best in class. Not lots to say other than I’d strongly recommend trying on if you’re after that style of jacket. The feel of the blend is very nice, a touch of sponge but not too soft (felt like it was spot on for this design).
I think the donegal wasn’t quite the right fit for me – I could be between size 4 and 5, but if the fit suits you they both look great.
The tweed overcoat – very unfortunately my size wasn’t in stock, but if I had to guess I think the fit would also not quite be right for me, but the detailing with the belt and the fabric itself was outstanding. I’ve not felt a wool like that in an overcoat – really leaning into the sponginess and other unique offering.
As said above, really worth a look
Thanks a lot Michael, great to have the feedback on the whole outerwear range
As an urban dweller, If I were to buy a PS donegal coat as my only coat, I think currently I’d pick this navy over the past iterations. After experimenting a bit, I’ve come to re-realise that navy and darker grey are the perennial classics for a reason, just so much more effortless to wear. Oh and I love the styling with the silk scarf.
On a side note, for a while now I’ve been looking for a really chunky and luxurious roll/O/V-neck cable-knit ( looser gauge / 8 ply+ ) to wear under a coat. Something like Cucinelli sells but that doesn’t cost 4000€. There are really only a handful of options available and I think this could be a good idea for a new PS product, The Indulgent Shawl Collar Cardigan in crewneck/v-neck/roll-neck form. The competing products from Italian designer brands are thrice as expensive and thus out of reach, Scottish variants on the other hand often have questionable design choices like less appealing colours.
Nice suggestion, thanks m
Simon – Do you anticipate the new navy Donegal will sell out in 3 or 4 before your NY pop up? I’m planning to swing by to try a few of the jackets I’ve had my eyes on (including this one now) but a bit worried it may already be gone before I get to try it out! Trying to avoid ordering two sizes and having to deal with returns, inbound customs, etc. Also potentially a silly question but if the coat isn’t flecked, what makes it a Donegal? I always associated that term with the flecks from prior versions
Good point on the Donegal – it is what makes the yarn distinctive, but you can request it without as well. Here we’re really doing it just for consistency with the other products.
I think we’ll be fine for NY. We’re a week away and we’ve sold 40% of the coats, but there’s always a big rush at the beginning, it’ll settle down
Hi Simon, can you fit a jacket underneath the coat in your normal size? I’m typically a 52 but the chest measurement on this coat seems a bit slim. Curious how much layering is possible.
Yes I can, though it’s not how I wear it most of the time. If I was going to wear it with a jacket a lot, I might size up.
When I see people trying on sizes, a bigger size never looks wrong, which is nice. It just tends to look like it has a little more swish, a slightly more classic style
Hi simon
from the photos this looks really nice. Quoted chest size for the medium is 56.5 cm. I was comparing it to drake’s wool raglan coat https://www.drakes.com/products/navy-wool-raglan-coat-1 and the chest size is 38/40 is 64.5/67. Am I missing something here but there is a big difference in dimensions. For what it’s worth I like the look of the PS coat more. I know the advice is to look at the measurements of something similar that I own, but I don’t have anything to compare
Hey Malcolm,
I think the Drake’s is a lot more big and boxy. If you’re in doubt on size you could size up one size on ours, but you won’t need more than that
Hello Simon, I went to William Crabtree to try on coat sizes. I think I’m somewhere between size 3 and 4. The chest fits well with size 3, while the shoulders fit better with size 4. Unfortunately, I couldn’t try on size 4 as it wasn’t available when I went there. I’ve attached photos of me wearing size 3 and would appreciate it if I could hear your thoughts.
For reference, all the outerwear I’ve bought from the PS Shop so far (The English Tweed Coat, The Wax Walker, and The Rider’s Rain Coat) are all in size 4. While size 3 gave a cleaner silhouette and looked nice overall, I did find it slightly uncomfortable to button up the top button when I wore thicker knitwear underneath.
Many thanks,
Jack
Hey Jack,
I’d go for a 4 in that case. It’s worth being a little oversized in this and definitely more danger in being too small than too big. There is a 4 in the store by the way, just in the grey donegal not the navy, so you can try that on for size
I agree, thank you, Simon.
This is a photo with the button done up. Thank you.
Yes this looks a touch tight to me. I’d go for the 4
Hi Simon.
After trying it alongside the Wax Walker and Bridge Coat at William Crabtree, I fell in love with the Navy Donegal and have ended up ordering it in size 3 (in case it helps others, would have gone for a size 4 in the other two).
I think the sleeves need to be shortened a touch (as did James from WC!) but I wondered if you agree and if so, how much shorter would you go?
The only comment I found on the PS website was about an overcoat sleeve usually needing to be long enough to cover a jacket sleeve, but I may have missed other advice already on there (and will mostly wear it without tailoring anyway)!
Looks nice Viktor.
Yes, on length the guidance is to cover whatever is underneath, whether that’s a knit or a shirt or a jacket.
This is such as fabulous coat. I’m currently debating because I already have a navy raglan coat from Drake’s (https://www.drakes.com/products/navy-wool-raglan-coat-1 ). If I buy this coat do you think it would be too redundant in terms of style or quality? Cheers.
They are slightly different styles, but I’d think they would be redundant together. Maybe the black/white donegal instead? That with this navy would make a very useful pairing – or the English Tweed in its grey herringbone, when it’s in
I have the bridge coat in a size 7. I love it. I’ve had it tailored down a little and I wore it on my vacation to Vienna and Prauge this past winter. I just purchased the Navy Donegal in a size 6 and can’t wait to try it on. Hopefully it fits well.
Nice to hear Nick. That sounds like it should be good, the Bridge is a little slim already and you’ve had it tailored down as well. The Donegal also has a little inlay in the seams (unlike other brands) so you can expand it if you need to (even later, in a few years)
H Simon
I’m the process of trying to get my brown Donegal lengthened.
According to my trusted tailor, it’s not possible. Apparently thoug there is inlay around the bottom, at the front it has been cut in such a way as to prevent lengthening. He said the result would look very weird.
Is this something you recognise to be true
Hi Jackson,
That is strange – would you mind contacting the support team ([email protected]) so Lucas can sort it out, potentially talking to Private White about it as well?
Thank you
Hey Simon – Will follow up with Lucas, but have been in talks with Private white.
Looks a little like lengthening isn’t actually possible, which is a real shame as being 6’5, the ability to get it lengthened was the main reason I went with the PS donegal in the first place. It’s a garment I have genuinely loved and taken pride in, whilst knowing I was going to have to lengthen it at some point as those extra 5cm of inlay that you advertise were basically necessary to get the length right.
Probably wouldn’t have bought it had I known it wasn’t possible as it’s a lot of money to end up with a coat that ‘just about works.’ I’d recommend taking the ‘5cm of inlay for lengthening off the site so other people don’t end up in this situation.
Hi Jackson,
Please do talk to Lucas. This was an error with only one part of one batch of the coats – all other coats before and since have had this corrected, and Private White should be happy to make a new coat for you as it was their error. We have spare cloth to supply to them too. Lucas will be able to arrange this – best not to go straight to Private White as the person there won’t necessarily know the background.
Thanks
Oh right I see! That’s interesting to know. In that case, I will contact Lucas directly. Many thanks Simon. Trust restored!
No worries
I would also add that I think you overstate how much it can be altered. I took the coat to Pinnas and Needles about a year ago to get the back/chest let out and they told me it couldn’t be done. They could squeeze about 1cm out of the alteration but that was it, as the inlay was cut at various points. They said that was very normal on RTW garments and to be expected and that the donegal was no different.
When I assured them that they must be mistaken and explained why, they scoffed and told me that a salesman had gotten the better for me.
Sad really, as you and PS is a very trusted resource. Perhaps I should have just gone for the size up. But even so, the possibility for alterations is I think overstated on your site.
Thanks Jackson, but this is just because of that error with this one part of one batch, as mentioned. All RTW coats are indeed like that, but ours are not.
Hey Simon,
Been in touch with Lucas over email and we discussed briefly, but haven’t heard back from him since thursday. Is anyone manning the desks? Hoping to resolve this fairly soon if possible. Cheers!
Hi Jackson,
Please be patient if you can. There are no replies over weekends, and we’ve literally just landed from New York having done the pop-up shop. I know Lucas is sorting out the details with Private White.
Ah – my apologies! Of course, forgot about the Pop-up shops you’ve had recently.
No worries. Even without those, we say things will be replied to within 2 working days, so that’s only just now!
Just on a lighter note, I lost a single button on a PS Oxford and contacted Lucas. He replied back and said this would be sorted. About a week or so later, a packet of buttons in different sizes for the shirt arrived direct from Italy. That was great.
Nice. Thanks Alex
Hey Simon,
Just to let you know the issue has been resolved, as I am sure you are aware. Want to thank both you and Lucas for your accommodations and the replacement it is much appreciated. It’s a gorgeous coat
However, I’m actually considering now just buying the brown donegal MTO, since I understand you still have material left.
Lucas mentioned you had one size 7 still, but that would likely have the same issue as my old one? Is that right? (If not and it is actually alterable, I’d happily buy that one off you!)
One more question for you if possible: has the style of the coats evolved over the years? Seems the arms have become a lot roomier on the newer models, compared to the old brown donegal. Is that right, or is that just a question of sizing?
Hi Jackson,
That’s great to hear.
The remaining brown donegal might be fine, it depends which batch it was. We can check for you if you’d like.
The pattern changed a little on the sleeves with the last two years’ batches, but the dark brown was also a thicker material, which made it feel a touch slimmer in the arms, yes.
Just out of interest, has the pattern changed in any other ways?
Well if that one can be altered (lengthened and sleeves widened a tad) then just buying that one would probably be the easiest option.
Though, if it is one of the unalterable batch, would putting in an order with the material you have left be possible too?
No it hasn’t.
Sleeves can’t be widened I’m afraid.
You can have one made to order, but you need to buy the cloth from us and then arrange the MTO with Private White
Ah I see. Do you know if there is much of a difference in sleeve width between the size 6 and the size 7? Also do you know how much wider newer versions of the coats sleeves are?
May be easier just to go for your remaining size 7, so I will wait to hear from either you or Lucas regarding if it can be altered. Will explore the MTO option if it turns out that’s not possible.
Hi Jackson,
There isn’t much difference between the sizes on sleeve width, no, and the difference is small, about a centimetre.
Let me know if you still want us to check whether the remaining brown we have can be lengthened
Thanks
How much would it cost extra to have the brown donegal made as MTO?
You’d have to check with Private White – I don’t know their current costs. They’d make it, but you would buy the cloth from us
Hey Simon
I emailed Lucas. But I think I’d like to purchase the remaining Brown in size 7 and hope that the length works, even if it can’t be lengthened…
If it feels a tad short too, I think I’ll return it and purchase either the grey herringbone, or the cloth itself for the MTO order. (Checked with Private White and apparently MTO without cloth will come in at nearly 2K, so obviously this isn’t my first port of call!)
Does that work?
Sure, but can you not tell quite easily whether the length of the brown works, without having to send it out and back?
Is the length of the Brown in a 7 the same as the New Navy in a 7? Just wondering as they are different generations of the coat.
Yes, the same
Sorry to pepper the comment board with messages about this, Simon!
How about this actually? Would very much appreciate it if you could let me know if that brown can be altered. As I’ll definitely be getting the navy lengthened by about 2-3cm.
OK, sure. Please email Lucas and let him know, and he can get the warehouse to check the brown
Sorry to keep responding to the wrong message by the way, but for some reason the post comment icon disappears on lower down messages.
This may be a tad ambitious, but do you think I could buy the brown donegal today, with it arriving tomorrow, so I can check the length to see if it fits well (or not an issue if it has the correct inlay)?. I leave for a trip Sunday, so could have my girlfriend return it to PS on monday, if a return is indeed necessary.
No Jackson, I don’t think we could guarantee it would arrive tomorrow in that way
Hey Simon,
Sorry to hit you with another instalment in this saga.
However, I recently purchased another Brown donegal from you. Something I noticed on the new brown donegal is that the collar seems to fall away from itself, meaning that one side of the material closest to the neck seems to come away from the other side facing away from the neck, as though the two parts don’t fully align. It also means it doesn’t really stay up when popped, but rather hangs limply down. I ran my hand under the lining (without taking it apart) and across/beneath the collar and realised there is nothing holding it together, just a lot of empty space. The whole collar can actually collapse inwards. Whereas on my old unalterable brown donegal and the new dark navy donegal, there is an area near the shoulder seams that attaches both sides together and if you slide it beneath, prevents your hand from moving from one side to the other. As far as I can tell, this keeps the front and back sides together and keeps the collar up when popped as it has shape and form.
I’m reluctant to send the coat back to Permanent Style, since it was the last one in a size 7 and I know that PWVC doesn’t have any remaining either. However, I’ve yet to take the tags off and haven’t yet worn it either. Is this something that can be fixed at Private White? Would love to get it sorted as it’s a beautiful coat – my favourite of the range, but this aspect of it does ruin the effect of the coat.
Also is this something else you were aware of? Not sure if this is a mistake in the making of the coat, or if one batch was simply made differently to previous + succeeding batches? Touching around certain areas, it does seem to have inlay unlike the old one I purchased years ago, so I assume this wasn’t the same batch.
Warmly,
Jackson
Hi Jackson,
I don’t think there should be any difference there. In fact I think both coats were made at the same time as we only did one batch of these. If you find the collar isn’t standing up as much, try keeping it hung up with the collar up, even with the top button fastened. The coats are stored with the collar down and sometimes this means it needs to learn to stand up a bit more easily, just the way the wool moulds. Thanks
Thanks for the response, Simon.
However, there definitely is a difference there in terms of where the collar connects, something I felt with my own hands. It seems to be sewn in place on the other coats, whereas on the brown I recently received it is not. I’ll try doing as you suggest though and see if that makes a difference, but the collar does seem to behave quite differently on this one.
Hey Simon,
Just had a look at it again. It does seem to have two areas that are genuinely not sewn in place, unlike the other coats. It means the collar bags out in a way that the others doesn’t.
I’m about to fly back out. I’ve got three separate trips this month so I’m back and forth quite fitfully. However, I won’t be wearing it in the meantime and will leave it with the tags on.
Can I return it to you to look at once I’m back with more time to spare?
Hi Jackson,
Yes feel free to return it if you want to. You have 30 days to do so.
Cheers
Thanks for the response, Simon!
Just to be clear, would that be something that could be sent back to be looked at/possibly repaired if a problem is indeed identified, or would it just be taken as a return?
No, it would just be a return
Ah fair enough.
In which case, may I ask you to check one of the other coats you’re stocking? It’s just between the collar and the body of the coat, around the shoulder seam and sort of parallel to the rivets.
On the other coats this part seems to be joined together, whereas this one seems to have nothing there. If that is not right but not fixable I’ll probably return it and exchange for the grey or the english tweed (obviously paying the difference)
I think it’s unlikely Jackson, but we’d have to wait for the coat to come back at the least to know
Thanks for the response, Simon. What do you think is unlikely sorry?
Would you be checking the coat when it arrives back? Obviously if this is just typical variation between coats, then perhaps the storing with the collar up will help, but given that it seems actually structurally different to the other coats, that’s why I was more concerned. I can send photos of exactly what i’m talking about if that helps, before going through with a returns process
If there is an issue that won’t be fixable, so if you don’t want the coat you would need to exchange for one of those others. The English Tweed went on sale yesterday by the way
Ok, thanks Simon. Will see what Private White says first, as I do hope to hang on to this one as it really is my favourite of the lot!
Hey Simon,
Currently talking with PWVC and they’re figuring out if its something they can sort out.
If it’s not, I’ll return it and exchange. Just wanted to ask, as on the return portal it says that the return amount is for the before VAT price. Does that mean the VAT part of the price does not get refunded?
Where are you based Jackson? It depends on jurisdiction
Ah I’m based in London!
Oh, no then no issues, it’s a full refund
Ok great – thanks Simon!
Hey Simon,
Last question on the matter! PWVC told me that they can take the coat back and and have a go at repairing it. However, I just wanted to ask you what the process is if they can’t repair it. Would it still be returnable after PWVC have presumably opened it up to look into it?
No, it would not be returnable if it has been opened up and repaired like that. But if they have repaired it, there shouldn’t be any issues with it anyway
Ah fair enough. I meant more if they open it up and decide that for whatever reason that it can’t be repaired. Essentially if they deem it faulty but cannot repair it, could it not still be returned then? If not, I will have to play it safe and simply send it back to you now
Sure, yes if they do so and decide the garment is faulty and can’t be repaired, you can return it, because we could also ask them for a refund on what we paid them in that case
Ok got it – will decide what to do when I’m back in London later in the week. Thanks a lot!
It’s probably far too early for you to say, but what do you think the chances are that this cloth will return next year? I already bought a different PS coat and a PS cashmere knit so I am kind of tapped out for AW, but would love to add the navy overcoat next year
I really don’t know I’m afraid Erik. Certainly we wouldn’t do both the colours that we’ve offered this year, next year. One of them will have to go
This is the perfect coat, especially if a man were to have only one. It would elevate a t-shirt and jeans or complement a smart casual button-up with slacks, which unfortunately is about as dressed up as men tend to get in the Bay Area. It would look dreamy over a suit. I can imagine a man traveling to colder climes with this beautiful Donegal coat or to a wedding and women wondering where the heck this guy came from.
Always nice to hear…
Simon, why did you design the Donegal Overcoat and English Tweed overcoat with slanted welt pockets, but then use postbox pockets for the Anthology polo coat? Do you wish you had added chest high plunge pockets to the polo coat?
I am designing a raglan sleeve DB overcoat with the PS light grey donegal fabric and am trying to figure out pockets as well as whether to elongate the lapels.
Hopefully the current design photo attaches to this comment.
You wouldn’t usually use slanted pockets like the Donegal or a DB coat, certainly not a remotely smart one.
On your design, I would take off the higher pockets, and generally resist the urge to overcomplicate it
Hi Simon,
I found your website and beautiful coats last year when things were already selling out – so have been waiting to see what’s in store this year – glad I checked at the right time! The navy Donegal looks very nice. Can you say a little more about the interior hip pockets – it is one pocket, or two (one on each side)? How large is this hip pocket?
And, I’m afraid I need some help with sizing and don’t know where to turn. I’m 5’9″ and about 200 lbs. I’m thinking the L/5 would be right, but I’m not sure. Any guidance would be appreciated!
Thank you!
Hey Steven,
Sure, no problem. The internal pocket is on the left and is the kind of size for a paperback book. It’s useful for a hat, gloves, that kind of thing.
On the sizing, the best thing is usually to compare the measurements of the coat to something you already own. Can you do that? And then I’d say with this coat, size up if you’re between sizes. It should be a little loose and have a flow to it
Thanks, Simon.
I ended up deciding on a herringbone Donegal coat, and got a size 5. It arrived just three days after I ordered it (very fast!) and I love it! The fit is really comfortable, and it is quite cozy to wear. I knew I was ordering a high quality coat, but I was not really prepared for just how high the quality is.
I do need to get the sleeves shortened a bit – how does one go about finding a good tailor? (I’m completely new to the world of tailoring.) I don’t see a “Guide to…” for this, but perhaps I’m just not looking in the right place?
Also, a bit of feedback on the interior hip pocket for future reference, for whatever it’s worth: I do wish that the hip pocket were a little wider – it is only marginally wider than the other two interior pockets, and it is just barely large enough for a “large” moleskine notebook (5″ x 8.25″), which is about the smallest book size that I am usually carrying around. For someone like me, a wider hip pocket (or maybe two, one on each side?) would make the interior significantly more versatile.
Thanks again for designing a beautiful coat!
Best,
Steven
That’s so lovely to hear Steven, and thanks for the feedback as well.
There are two articles on alterations places we recommend, for London and New York, at those links.
Simon
How is inventory of the Medium holding out? I am heading to New York tomorrow to confirm size and compare colors. I saw the Large is sold out in Navy and it’s making me nervous.
Eric
There’s quite a bit in the medium, no worries there
Very tempting. I bought the Private White coats in the grey and navy Donegal. My chief criticism is that the hand pockets are too shallow. I can’t put any valuable objects in these with any confidence, like keys and phone. Couldn’t even stuff my gloves in there without fearing they might fall out. Also, I felt that the pocket lining material was a bit flimsy, compared to the linings in my older tweed coats from the sixties by Daks and Crombie etc.
Useful feedback, thanks Edward. I’d put my gloves in the inside hip pocket and phone in the chest pocket, they work well there.
Hi, Simon
When are you going to release the new outerwear project, the sport one?
Thank you!
Hey Michael,
We’re just waiting to hear when it will arrive. The launch will either be next Wednesday or the Wednesday afterwards
Hi! Question about the sizing.
I have a 38 inch chest size and am 5″9 but i wear 46(EU) and Size S in most clothing but prettu mvuh never XS. Private white fitbot recommends Xs. Also on their website the chest measurement is a bit bigger. Should I still go S (TTS) on this coat?
I’d say so, yes. If in doubt on this coat I’d always go for the larger size – it should be free and hang loose, it’s terrible if it’s tight anywhere.
We still have small in stock on our site if you want to go there.
Hello Simon,
With winter on the way, I’m considering investing in a new coat, and I’m torn between the one you’ve done with Private White, or options from A&S and Drake’s. A&S seems to come in a bit higher price-wise, while Drake’s is around the same range. From an objective point of view, which would you say comes out on top in terms of quality?
Thank you!
The quality of our Private White and the A&S one is similar. The Drake’s one is a little below that. However, the biggest difference is style – the Drake’s is much chunkier, bigger, squarer. It is their style but not the one we were going for, which is more similar to A&S in that respect
It’s wonderful. Who makes the fabric? It’s enticing.
Thank you. It was made with Marling & Evans, but an exclusive development by us, not sold by the metre I’m afraid
Thanks for the reply! A credit to you then, the pictures make it look fantastic.
This colors, the size of the pattern, and the weight look wonderful! Do you know of anything similar that is available by the meter? The fox cloth for your Ettore coat seemed light to me, and the one by B&Tailor didnt present as a herringbone
I don’t, sorry Hugh
Hi Simon,
Do you happen to wear a Large when wearing this coat with knits (eg rubato) or do you stick to Medium?
Kind regards.
Charles
I still wear a medium
Dear Simon, which of the donegal coats – black & cream or dark navy – will work better in terms of versatility? My first choice office uniform consists of flannel trousers (mainly darker colors: navy, brown, different shades of grey), white / blue shirt and navy / brown sport jacket. I have had black & cream version on my wish-list for some time, but know I am a little bit confused. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I’d say black and cream. It would suit that look very well, and translate better into casual outfits as well if you ever wanted to wear it that way
Thanks a lot. Will the black & cream version work well with (dark) brown shoes?
Yes absolutely
Dear Simon, following your recommendation I have decided on black & cream version. I have ordered on Monday late evening, the coat has been delivered in Poland on Friday. Very quick and reliable delivery. The coat is absolutely fantastic, I have loved it at first sight. Thank you. For those looking for some sizing advice I am 184 cm high and 90 kgs – the size 5 fits very well and allows for jacket underneath. Highly recommend to everyone who is still hesitating. Pull the trigger before it runs out of stock 😉
Amazing! So lovely to hear
Simon, I must say I’m finding myself in a bit of a quandary between your black and cream Donegal coat and the dark navy option. Just to note, I already have your English tweed in the collection, and I’ve got a dark grey Donegal from Anderson & Sheppard, so it’s quite clear the navy would naturally round things out rather beautifully.
That said, there’s something distinctly captivating about the black and cream version. I’ve had my eye on it for some time now, and I suppose the question is whether it might feel a bit redundant given my current lineup. Still, if you think it would bring a unique touch without overdoing things, I’m quite inclined to go for it. What would you recommend?
That’s a tough one William. I do love that black/white a lot and it’s the most popular coat we’ve ever done, but the dark navy would fit in with your wardrobe very well.
I’d say probably the navy, but hopefully I’ve helped set out the choice a little more clearly
Good morning Simon,
I have worn the grey donegal for two years ( arrived sept 22) and i absolutely love it. I am however now considering whether the size 4 i ordered is slightly too small. It’s Ok, but a little tight in the shoulders and arms especially when i wear a knit underneath. I am very similar to you in build but slightly fuller in the chest and shoulders as i do a fair amount of resistance training and i thought the L looked great on you in the instagram post. I also now find it fairly slim in the body as my taste is evolving to prefer more volume, especially with outerwear. I have an attachment to this specific one because its been worn so wondering whether the arms and body can be let out to be closer to larger, as it suggests the new dark navy can be. Do you know if my iteration has the slightly larger sleeve pattern? I would consider ordering a new one in a L and selling this one but would like to try and make this particular one work if possible.
Also, i popped into WC a few weeks back to try on the tweed overcoat in a 4 but they did not hold stock in a 4. Do you know if they now have it? Would you say the tweed coat is more generous than the donegal in the shoulders and arm width?
Thanks,
Chris
Hey Chris,
William Crabtree never have stock of the coats, just try-ons. They did have a 4 to try on, though perhaps not in the colour you wanted. Hope there wasn’t too much confusion there. They don’t have anything any more, as that offer is only there during October (the month leading up to our full pop-up).
I would imagine yours does have the larger sleeve I’m afraid, and the sleeves can’t really be made bigger (unlike the body, and there only from the armpit downwards). So it sounds like you need a larger one unfortunately.
There is a pretty good secondary market in them, as they’re so consistently popular. You often see some on Marrkt for example
I am sure you’re asked this a lot, so apologies – but are there any plans to reintroduce the Brown Donegal? I’m after a size 3. Thanks.
Not currently no Cassius, sorry
Unfortunately, I don’t have another coat to measure against, but my chest is 38 inches. I would exclusively wear this coat with sweaters and shirts; never a jacket. Am I better off with an XS/2 or S/3?
Probably a 3 I think. That’s only a little smaller than me in the chest and I wear a 4.
When you get it, try to ignore body and sleeve length as those things can be easily altered
Simon, I’m torn between this coat and the older version with cream flecks. While I appreciate the versatility of this dark navy one, I’m concerned about its warmth since the wool appears lighter. Based on your experience, would the difference in weight (680g vs 720g) significantly affect its performance in winter?
No I don’t think it would to be honest, I’ve worn both and that’s what I’ve found
Thanks, Simon! Would you say the Donegal Coat is noticeably warmer than the Bridge Coat? I already own the latter. I know their styles are quite different; I’m asking to better understand the Donegal’s performance in winter conditions.
I’d say it’s a little warmer, yes. The cloth isn’t that different but the length makes it a bit warmer
Hi Simon, I’m a bit confused about the fabric weight. You mentioned it as 680g, but on the PW page, it says 750g. Which one is correct?”
I think that’s a typo on their part, maybe carrying it across from the other coats. But I can check with them.
Hey Simon, love the blog. Was looking at the navy donegal here, compared to the black/cream one. Just wondering if you had any idea as to when the black/cream one would restock. Thanks!
Hey John,
We’re seeing if we can get some more in January, we should have an update on that soon
Hi Simon, lovely coat. Would you say that the new colour would go well with the PS Arran scarf in natural?
Absolutely – that is the very combination that’s on the shop page for the scarf! I love it
Thanks, Simon. Do you know when a Medium (4) will be back in stock?
Not soon I’m afraid, we have no more stock coming
Beautiful coat Simon! Unlucky for me though its out of stock.
What other coat would you recommend for a first timer to winter? I’ve just moved countries and my first time experiencing “real” winter for the first time and I’m in need of a winter coat. What type of jacket/coat would you recommend as a first?
It depends rather how smartly or casually you dress Mark – what are you wearing typically underneath?
For work I typically wear high waisted trousers (cotton twill/worsted) with odd jackets and sometimes alternate with more casual tops like an overshirt. On casual days it’s typically one wash denim (Brycelands 133) or vintage Levi’s with OCBDs/white tee’s paired with loafers/sneakers and more casual tops (overshirts in different blends). To help with the cold I’ve just purchased a knit from Rubato to start but am starting to need a jacket on top now that its starting to get much colder.
Looking for a jacket with the most versatility to fit all occasions as it’s my first and will probably use it to survive this years winter.
In that a case a raglan coat like this one is probably the best bet. I actually thing our black/white version might be more versatile, but I presume your size is sold out in that as well?
If we don’t have any it’s worth checking Private White VC, as they might.
Unfortunately sold out as well even on PWVC for my size. Lovely coats Simon, will need to start looking on the 2nd hand market.
Actually I did have a question on sizing Simon. I have a 99cm chest, would you recommend a XS or size up to an S? I just double checked PWVC and there is a size 2/XS available but wanted to check the proper sizing given the fit of the coat.
Have you read my sizing guide here Mark?
Just missed this one, thanks Simon.
Interested to hear your thoughts on the raglan vs. the English Tweed Simon, to my untrained eye they are similar in overall look. Would you still take the raglan as a first and why?
They are quite different in cut Mark, and the weight and feel of the wool is rather different too.
I’d take the donegal first, yes, because it is more versatile
Hi Simon,
What is your take on a duffle coat? I am thinking at the Allevol version or Buzz Rickson’s. How would you wear them?
Thank you
Maybe have a search Michael? There is an article…
Hi Simon, may I ask what hangers you use for your Donegal coats?
Just regular hangers Jack, nothing special. Ideally you want something with a bit of a shoulder on it, not a one that’s thin all the way along like a shirt hanger. But really unless something is hanging for a very long time and has padding in there that could become distorted, having a specific hanger is not a big deal
Hey Simon, thanks for your reply. I was considering buying this particular style (total width: 45 cm, support width: 3.5 cm) as it might be best for the raglan-sleeve design of your Donegal coat. What do you think? Am I overthinking it?
Yes I think you are Jack, to be honest. I’ve been hanging mine on regular hangers for five years with no deleterious effects
Hi Simon – are intending to restock the other colours (cream donegal and navy donegal) this year? Some sizes are unfortunately sold out.
Thank yoj
No we can’t get anymore I’m afraid Simon
Hello Simon, I am not sure if this is the right place to ask and please feel free to redirect me if you would like. I wanted to ask for your opinion on my outfit today, as I’m not confident about how it looks. I’m wearing the navy coat, gray Dartmoor polo both from your shop, fairly black jeans, and a pair of dark brown penny loafers. Do you have any suggestions for changes? Thank you so much!
I think that sounds very nice Anton. Feel free to send a picture if you want (it’s possible to attach one to each comment) if you would like more specific input
Hi Simon,
I’m new to overcoats in general and the raglan style for outerwear in particular, which is why I’m unsure about the size. I typically wear XXL in everything, which is why I ordered the dark navy in XXL, but I feel like I’m swimming in it a little too much.
My use cases are going to be primarily single layers underneath (sweaters, polos, etc.), with some double layers (shirt & waistcoat), with only occasional use with a suit jacket & shirt. Effectively, it’ll be a jacket replacement in >80% of situations.
Specifically, the shoulders are throwing wrinkles just by wearing it, the sleeves feel too long, and though the coat is designed to be roomy, it feels a little bit too roomy, if that makes sense.
I’d exchange it for the extra large, but I’m unsure if my perception is clouded by simply not having any experience with overcoats. Maybe you could give me some advice based on the picture I’ve attached (that one is with a blazer underneath; I have a few more, but don’t know whether that should be via email).
Best regards,
It’s a little hard to tell, but my feeling is you should go down a size, yes.
Ignore the sleeve length and the shoulder, as one can be altered and the other will settle down with time anyway. But the body looks a little big
Thank you. Like I said, I have more pictures, like this one.
I could take another, if you have a suggestion how it might be more visible?
Hey Simon,
Slow morning at work sat with a coffee and I had a couple of questions. I wonder what you’ll make of them. 1) I wonder if the sheer number of raglan coats on the market has changed the way you feel about your Donegal line? Obviously, they are less unique than they were years ago, and despite being great coats, I wonder if there are ever things you’d want to change about the design now, with a greater exposure to different brands models. Once upon a time it seemed a choice between somewhere like Cordings or the far superior PS Donegal. Now every stylish menswear brand worth their salt offers a couple of lovely balmacaans, a trend that I suspect PS had a lot of influence on!
2) I have noticed PWVC as a company go into a kind of creative free-fall. The quality of their garments is always excellent, but as far as design and creative direction is concerned, it seems they have entered a bit of a dark age. Most of their non-PS clothes to me seem bland at best and actually quite ugly at worst. Their marketing is just odd now too, like they don’t know how to reach an audience nor perhaps who their audience actually is anymore. Their Spycraft line seemed to be a failure, since pretty much all of it ended up in ‘The Bunker’ at 70% off. The tongue and cheek approach – “Dear Agent, your assignment has been set…” – seemed more like the approach to content that a tacky immersive experience for children’s birthday parties and nerdy stag dos might take more than it did that of a prestige menswear brand. I’m wondering how their now at least a few years or more of decline as a brand impacts your attitude towards them? PS and PWVC’s collaboration has always seemed fresh, stylish and interesting, but now that so much of PWVC’s own product and marketing output seems disconnected, tired and boring and their reputation not quite being what it was 5 years ago, does it leave you reconsidering PS’s association with them in the longterm?
Morning Gabriel, hope the coffee is good!
1) It hasn’t to be honest, because I still prefer ours to any other, and because they’re not necessarily that common. Yes, lots of menswear brands do them, but if I walk down my street in one I don’t find many people at all dressed the same. And of course we don’t live online!
2) It is always something we think about, but as you say the quality is great and I think our readers are discerning enough to separate the manufacturing from the other points in PWVC’s own collection. Don’t you think so?
I’m in a writing mood today (so please excuse my third comment).
PS introduced me to Private White, and I have three items (all outerwear) from them. The quality is great. I also think some of their own core products are very well designed, such as the Manchester Pea Coat, the Flight Jacket and Jack’s Mac. The problem I see with Private White is that they offer far too many different outerwear products, which in my opinion often are quite exotic (in not a good way) and have major design flaws. I also think that their foray into non-outerwear doesn’t fit with the company’s profile and that these products are often completely off the mark (e.g. currently short-sleeved polo shirts with copper zips).
Furthermore, many of their products are almost constantly on sale with discounts of up to 70%, which destroys their own market (I would never pay full price at Private White, except for their PS products).
Thanks Markus, it’s useful feedback for them
It is interesting this. I love my donegal. it truly is a great item of clothing. But seeing it’s similarities with other PWVC items has started to devalue it in my mind a little. PWVC has started to seem like a brand that is almost by design terribly unstylish and uncool. Much of what they produce I have no idea who it is for. Potentially no one, as the above commenter put quite nicely.
I think the constant 70% off sales where pretty much all of their items other than the PS ones are there does make you wonder why the PS items are so much more expensive. Simon, if I were you I would be considering finishing my association with such an uncool almost industrial brand. You created a fantastic product with them, but since PS has it’s thumb on the pulse, you can surely see that PWVC is flatlining. Take your fantastic product design and find a manufacturer and brand to harmonise with, offering something where customers don’t have to ignore the stink of PWVC to enjoy it.
A bit harsh probably Chris, but thanks. Personally I wouldn’t stop working with a manufacturer because I didn’t like their designs if the quality of the make was still good
I agree that Private White’s marketing for ‘Spycraft’ is misplaced. The internal paradox apparent in their spy range is that spies don’t wear uniform. The exception to this rule, are authoritarian states where non-uniformed ‘special police’ deliberately want to be conspicuous in order to intimidate.
The marketing narrative is therefore mixing types. On one hand, the UK has a generally positive association with spying courtesy of the swashbuckling James Bond. On the other, Private White are offering an ‘Observer Jacket’ that might be Yugoslav Secret Police circa 1980s.
Which is not to say I wouldn’t want to wear it, since it is probably a very well executed and thought out garment. But I wouldn’t want to wear it with those associations. And because I am in the discerning and middle-aged demographic that can generally afford Private White garments (I own several), those are the associations I’m inclined to make.
I disagree with the comment that Private White’s other items are bland. I don’t want outerwear to be overtly fashionable or contrived, and they specialise in well made outerwear. But, marketing again, they don’t seem to combine their items with much flair in photos.
Military nostalgia is fine, but the problem with dressing like a hero is making it look like you’re having fun as well. This is something that Drake’s has down to a tee. Perhaps ties and silks are more frivilous. But Private White’s models have the battle-weary countenance of a field officer looking at assembled troops, at odds with the eponymous plucky Private who took the initiative and won a VC.
Some of Private White’s best items are charismstic. I have their Pendlebury jacket which is part terraces part Berlin skatepark and I absolutely love it. Plus it’s taped Ventile with double layered yoke, so absolutely practical.
Which brings to me my final point, if any of this message gets back to Private White, this is the one thing I really hope they’d act on. Would they reinstate their *archive* where previous items photos, details and their size charts are available?
There is such a strong second hand market for their items that rather than distract from their main market would actually enhance it through a halo effect. Plus they have such a strong back catalogue, it would be worth accessing for inspiration.
Hi Simon,
I appreciate the gold lining is a bit of a signature for PS x PWVC outerwear, but I wondered if you have ever considered a more subtle, tonal lining, particularly for longer and/or smarter coats like the Dark Navy? The gold lining is one thing that has held me back from purchasing (although I’m not sure others are too bothered based on how well it sells!).
This is another excessively specific request as a potential customer, so please brush it off if you’d like! I would love to see a(nother) dark grey donegal coat, but this time with more tonal flecks. I have seen the original Dark Grey donegal in person and found the flecks a bit too noticeable all over, even from a few feet away. Like you have done the Dark Navy after the first Navy iteration, I’d love to see the same done for Dark Grey, but perhaps without selecting a softer/finer merino — would be keen to have it just as tweedy as the original. I have a dark grey barleycorn tweed balmacaan that doesn’t have the details that your version has, but I find the shade immensely versatile, particularly for a raglan overcoat.
Thanks for listening to your customers’ thoughts. I very much appreciate that about PS products — that there is always a dialogue with the customers.
Cheers!
Thank you SS, they’re always very much appreciated
Yes a lot of people like the gold lining, so it’s hard!
Hi Simon, what do you mean by 680g? Unfortunately, 680g by itself doesn’t mean much if it’s 680g per meter, do you know what the width of the fabric is? I am assuming it would be the standard 1.5m roll, so around 450gsm for the coat. Is this correct?
Yes, per linear metre. That is the norm across most mills
Hi Simon, may I check with you how rough is the fabric? I have sensitive skin around the neck and avoid rougher fabrics, which is why I haven’t purchased the tweed versions of this coat. Are there any plans to restock this in L size? Thanks.
There aren’t I’m afraid Ernest, but the wool here is actually very smooth, not tweedy at all
Yes, but try to keep the same straight shape of the body if you can
I like this coat, but I will say that it reads quite “black” in most lighting (and I find that people universally assume I’m wearing a black coat). This does make it a bit hard to pair, since it looks quite smart despite being a raglan sleeve overcoat.
I find myself wishing it was a navy and blue herringbone instead of a black and blue herringbone (and I’d probably be tempted to repurchase if that were offered in the future).
Just my two cents!
Thanks Lukas.
Hey Simon,
How noticeable is the herringbone on this? I own the black/cream version and I love the idea of the dark navy in practice and would like something more subtle. However, from other pictures I’ve seen, esepcially indoors, it seems very flat and dark.
Sounds like a contradiction considering I’m after something less noticeable but it looks almost too understated and the original navy too showy with the heavy flecking, at least for my taste – I think I’d love a happy medium with a slightly lighter navy with more subtle flecking. Maybe the cloth needs to be seen in person to be fully appreciated, it does look absolutely stunning in the closeup.
I don’t think it looks flat at all, but it doesn’t have the character of the other flecked donegals we’ve done. The herringbone is definitely there and definitely noticeable, but it looks like a nicely textured navy rather than something that’s more unusual
Hi Simon,
I’ve been a long-time reader and truly appreciate the insight and style you share through Permanent Style. I’ve just pre-ordered the Dark Navy Donegal Overcoat and would love your expert advice on a few points:
1. Cold Weather Performance: I live in Seoul, South Korea, where winter often drops below -10°C with harsh winds. While I mostly commute by car, I do spend time outdoors for meetings. Do you think this 680g version, with proper layering, can handle such temperatures effectively?
2. Sizing (Size 6/XL): I am 175cm tall and weigh 84kg. I typically wear a size 40-42 blazer. For reference, I recently purchased a Chrysalis Kensington coat in size 54, which has a 130cm chest and 113cm length. This fits me generously over a shirt, knitwear, and blazer. Would Size 6 (XL) in the Navy Donegal be the right choice to achieve a similar fit for layering over a jacket?
3. Alterations: Given my height of 175cm, do you think I might need to shorten the length of the Size 6? I noticed it is cut quite long (112cm), and I want to ensure the proportions are correct.
Thank you for creating such exceptional garments. I look forward to your thoughts.
Best regards,
Hi Gwanhee,
Can I just check about the pre-order to make sure I understand – was this through us?
Sorry, I should have been clearer. I haven’t officially pre-ordered yet; I just put my name on the waiting list. I’m asking these questions in advance to make sure I get the right size when it becomes available.
Thanks, wanted to make sure we hadn’t miscommunicated at all!
Answers:
– The coat is a little light for that kind of climate to be honest. You’re probably going to want something heavier.
– Yes I think XL would be right, the best thing is comparing the measurements on another garment, as you’re doing there.
– You might end up wanting to, but I’d advise wearing it first and seeing how you feel, then you can easily alter it once you want to.
Hi Simon,
Thank you for your quick and honest feedback.
Regarding the weight, your point about the climate is very helpful. Since Seoul winters can be quite brutal, I’ll take some time to reconsider whether this 680g version will be sufficient or if I should look for something heavier as you suggested.
I’m glad to hear the XL seems like the right size, and I agree with your advice on the length—I’ll definitely wear it first before making any decisions on alterations.
Thank you again for the invaluable advice. It’s given me a lot to think about.
No problem. We might do a heavier navy this year potentially on pre-order as well, just so you know. That hasn’t been confirmed yet
That’s very interesting news! Thank you for letting me know.
Since I was a bit concerned about the 680g weight for the Seoul winter, a heavier navy option sounds like it might be exactly what I’m looking for. I’d be very interested in that instead if it’s more of a true “overcoat” weight.
I have a few quick follow-up questions to help with my winter planning:
1. Specs: Do you have a rough idea of the target weight (gsm or oz)?
2. Style: Will it be similar to the current Donegal, or something different like a double-breasted or a more formal cut?
3. Timing: When do you expect the pre-order or launch to be confirmed?
If it’s significantly heavier than the Donegal, I’ll gladly wait for that pre-order instead. I’ll keep a close eye on Permanent Style for updates. Thanks again for the invaluable heads-up!
No worries. The style will be the same as the donegal and the pre-orders are done in March. As it’s not confirmed yet I can’t give any other specifics though I’m afraid
Thanks, Simon. That’s very helpful. Looking forward to the updates!
Hi Simon! Would like to know if you’re also wearing a size 4/M in the picture below during pitti this year ?
Hey Christopher – did I just answer you on Instagram? No that’s a 5, I was trying out the size up
Thanks Simon! Yes you answered me on Instagram but didn’t mention the size. My build is roughly around the same as yours and contemplating between a 4/M or 5/L. Seems like the 5 looks better on you in my opinion. Would you say it fits better than the 4?
I’d say it’s a question of personal style – both fit me, but the 5 is more roomy and traditional, the 4 more neat and contemporary
Alright thanks Simon! So basically all the pitti photos from this year of you wearing the Donegal is in a size 5/L? Are all the iterations of the Donegal in the same cutting ? Example the grey & dark navy Donegal
Yes they are, and yes
Hi Simon, just received my piece in size 5. Everything fits well except the sleeves are abit too long which will require a significant amount of it to be shortened which means the cuff has to be moved. Is this an easy alteration to be made ? Or does it require a bespoke tailor of some sort?
No that’s a fairly easy thing to do Chris
Just stumbled upon the coat and love the look. Are there any plans to restock some of the sold out sizing? (3 in particular)
It will be available as part of the pre-order we do on the coats in March, yes Dave. Look out for it
Hi there,
ready to join the waiting list, wondering about size. I already own a Private White x PS Reversible bomber in dark brown size 6/XL, I’m 1.91m, 95kg, athletic build. It fits me kind of loose, sized up from a 5/L as it was slightly cutting through my armpits, if there was a size in between it would fit me perfectly.
Is the Donegal Overcoat looser in fit than the bomber? Should I go for 5 or 6?
The bomber fits a bit big, so I would go for a 5 in the donegal
The bomber fits a bit big, so I would go for a 6 in the donegal
Will this be restocked in the Medium/4?
No, but it will be available on pre-order, which is launching next week
And for a Melbourne winter which would not get below 10c would you need to add the liner for this?
No I don’t think so