Last week, I realised I had worn my Belgravia loafers three out of the five working days.
Ever keen to look after them, I never wear them on consecutive days (the leather will not fully dry out – and wears quicker when damp).
So I was basically wearing the loafers every day I could. At every opportunity.
It made me realise that this is probably now my favourite pair of shoes: a title that for a long time was held by my Oundle monk straps. (See my three ‘How great things age’ posts on those shoes here.)
The monk straps had an emotional significance because they were my first really good pair of shoes. It was the first time I could afford them (thanks to a deep Ralph Lauren sale).
However, the two pairs also have several things that have made them my favourites over the years.
First, they are both versatile. Their mid-brown colouring means they go with many things, from flannels to cottons. And their style helps too, neither being a formal whole-cut oxford nor a chunky derby.
The Belgravia loafers are probably even more versatile, and reflect a gradual shift in how I dress. But I’ll get to that later.
The second thing is that they’ve worn in beautifully.
From an aesthetic point of view, the calf leather of the Belgravias has taken a huge number of scratches and scrapes, yet through wear and occasional cream, they’ve simply been embraced, softening and becoming part of the leather’s intricate texture.
The colour variation is also lovely, with the factory’s original burnishing of the toe and heel – to slightly darken it – made more varied and personal by my own polishing.
And to be clear, I’ve never done patina work, or deliberately used darker polish on certain areas. I’ve simply done good, basic maintenance of a fine shoe. Regular cream and polish. The kind of thing anyone can do.
[See more advice on shoe polishing in our two videos here.]
Third, both pairs of shoes are really fricking comfortable.
The older I get, the less patience I have with shoes that don’t fit. Those that tweak my little toe, or are fine for a few hours but torture by the end of the day. Narrow shoes from Berluti or Corthay have fallen by the wayside for that reason.
But these two Edward Green lasts (for me) – the 184 on the Belgravia and the 888 on the Oundle – are comfortable yet still look sufficiently slim and elegant to match my tailoring (or as pictured, slim dark denim).
I don’t think too much emphasis should be placed on comfort. A leather dress shoe is never going to feel the same as a sneaker or an espadrille. It cannot and still look like this.
And prioritising comfort above all else is a slippery slope: one that men and women today seem not only happy to slide down, but throw themselves on with reckless abandon.
Still, shoes must be comfortable. How that’s defined is subjective, but I’d suggest you need to be able to put them on and forget about them, all day.
The reason my Belgravias do that is partly the fit, but also partly the leather. This has worn in, softened with time and cream, and of course adapted to my foot. The footbed bears an impression of my sole; the upper creases where I need it to crease.
This lesson is worth highlighting because – again – people often want not just comfort, but immediate comfort. They don’t consider that if something is going to adapt to you, it cannot be the same on day 1 and day 50.
Earlier in the year I bought an identical pair of Belgravias in black cordovan. I know they will take time to wear in – even more so because they are hard horsehide.
But I also know what the final result is like, so I’m happy to wait. Just wearing a few hours a day to start with; not perfect comfort from the first; regular cream to help them along.
Finally, a word on style. These shoes, these great things that have aged, have become so because they suit how I dress today.
I rarely wear a navy worsted suit, shirt and tie. But I regularly wear a grey flannel suit, a green cotton suit, a tan corduroy suit. Or a jacket with grey fresco, green flannel or beige cotton. I also wear sharp chinos and dark denim. And these loafers go with all of it.
They’re perhaps a little casual with grey flannel – and a little smart with denim. So not to be worn with flannel that’s structured, dark and double breasted; or with denim that’s old and worn and accompanied by a T-shirt.
But nonetheless, they do go with that full range of clothes. The only other shoe that could be as versatile is a brown suede loafer.
Which of course, is why suede Belgravias are next on my wishlist.
Other clothing shown:
- Jeans from Blackhorse Lane – post here
- Beige cotton chinos from Dalcuore – post here
- Dark grey Crispaire trousers from The Disguisery – post here
- Mid-grey Fresco trousers from Gieves & Hawkes – post here
- Olive chinos from Drake’s
Photography: Denim shots and chinos by James Holborow, all else by Jamie Ferguson
Interesting that your favourite pair of shoes are RTW- why do you prefer them to your bespoke shoes? Or would you qualify that they’re your favourite pair of RTWs?
Good point. No it’s my favourite including bespoke. I think it shows that style, leather and everything I highlight here are still more important than make, hand sewing etc. And the fit is good enough for that not to be a point of difference
Nice! My favourite pair are #8 cordovan tassels from Alden, 9 years old, well worn. I also find they go with nearly anything, and the style never fails to makes me happy. Currently on the lookout for the right pair of brown pennies (calf or suede) to complement them.
How long have you owned this pair? Resoled or not?
About four years I think, resoled once
I would like to believe that suede chukkas, in the right style, would be just as versatile — going with everything from jeans to casual menswear and even flannels given the last is elegant enough.
At least that’s how I wear mine.
True, they would be very versatile. Perhaps not smart enough for some tailoring though, while these loafers would be too smart for some jeans etc?
Interesting that you prioritise comfort above all else, but also wax lyrical about your Common Project’s. I’ve got a pair, which I like a lot, but (when new, and being broken in) they must be the most uncomfortable pair of trainers I’ve ever owned. Or do I just have the wrong shaped feet for them?
Perhaps. I’ve always found them very comfortable, but the last is quite narrow.
I generally recommend them based on that slim shape, by the way, and good materials, rather than comfort or value for money, for example
Oh, they are definitely beautiful trainers. Just rather oddly shaped, and (for me at least) absolutely lethal on my heel when new. I’m now on to pair three (having inadvertently destroyed the first two pairs), but it’s always the same pain initially.
I recomend
i) go for CP Achilles retro – wider toebox
ii) ask EG to make the Belgravia in a wider fitting – F or more. No extra charge!!
Simon
The loafers are very nice. But I’m surprised you’ve worn tasseled loafers with jeans. I love loafers and regularly wear penny loafers with dark jeans. I’ve toyed with the idea of a tasseled pair with jeans but somehow, they seem too formal for jeans. This being, seeing the photos has made me reconsider. What are your thoughts in general around this area?
I think you’re right, they are a little formal and also a little more showy. I’m happy wearing these with smart jeans, but a pair in suede, even tan suede, might be a better fit for all jeans as the colour and texture would make them more casual
Polo suede penny loafers are my go to shoes with jeans.
Hi Simon,
I, like you, have developed a fondness for the Belgravia loafer. I currently have them in dark oak calf, black calf and mink suede. EG made them in snuff suede this season and they are calling my name, but I have resisted so far. I would like to ask your opinion as a fellow admirer (addict?) of the model. Do you think they are worthwhile considering I already own a mink pair? FWIW, I do have a pair of snuff suede EG loafers but they are unlined and much more casual, really more a no socks in summer thing. Thanks in advance!
I was going to say yes, given you’ve got everything else covered, but if you already have another pair of snuff suede, then I’d say no. You’ll get far more use out of something else – a mink suede derby or boot for example
Thanks! I get your point. One more question: assuming I didn’t have the unlined snuff suede loafer, would you recommend a Belgravia in snuff suede or in chestnut leather? Thanks
The difference there would be largely formality, the leather being smarter.
If the suede would work with lots of things you have, and you seem to like it as a material, then the suede
I second the comment about loafers and jeans – I see what you mean, but in these photos they look a tad mismatched. It’s not even about the formality, more about certain summery and dandy connotations of loafers versus colder weather and workwear for jeans. But you might be right, Simon, that suede would solve this.
About versatility – I actually find Oundle-style monk straps to be extremely versatile. It might just be me, but I have a bespoke pair modelled after Oundles and I am perfectly happy wearing them with both a suit and a pair of dark, slim jeans.
Along the theme of both this and the recent post on the capsule collection: if you had to start again with just five of your existing pairs – which would they be?
Hmm, interesting. I think they’d be very similar to that capsule collection I think. But perhaps these loafers, the same in brown suede, a dark brown Oxford like a Bemer I just had patinated, a black oxford and then a chukka boot like my Saint Crispin’s
Hi Simon,
Does the fact that your #1 shoes are RTW place footwear into a different category to tailoring (in terms of fit)?
I’m trying to reconcile this post with your recent post highlighting that fit is the most important benefit of bespoke.
Regards,
Pyc
Absolutely. I would never buy RTW tailoring today. But I’m very happy with lots of RTW shoes. Fit makes much more aesthetic difference with tailoring than it does with shoes
“And prioritising comfort above all else is a slippery slope: one that men and women today seem not only happy to slide down, but throw themselves on with reckless abandon.”
Amen to that.
They are indeed beautiful Simon.
My favourite shoe all time so far was Piccadilly from EG, they aged well and the patina they get after wear and tear plus the maintenance with just cream and polish was outstanding. Unfortunately i had to let them go because they were half a size to small.
Actually looking into getting the belgravia as a replacement for SS20 but in the meantime, luckily, the dover on 666 in dark oak will play a huge role this autumn instead, even though i would have preferred to shuffle around in the Belgravia.
Best
Simon
Do you think cordovan penny loafers in a brown colour work with dark jeans? Or is cordovan too polished to go with jeans?
No I think it looks great with jeans. I have colour 8 full-strap Aldens I wear with jeans. The way cordovan creases helps it work with jeans
Simon, you’ve had a lot of good things to say about Alden shoes over the years I notice. As an American, I find it really interesting that an Englishman likes an American shoe brand, given the plethora of choices you have with excellent English and Italian shoes for example. What do you like about Alden shoes?
I haven’t actually talked about them much – I’m not sure I’ve ever written anything substantial.
I do like them however, mostly for their cordovan and for specific styles. Usually slimmer lasts like the Aberdeen, and only as casual shoes really
I concur that versatility is key. I find that for business travel and the need or desire for economical packing leads me to go with a suede Crockett loafer (Sidney), a leather Ferragamo (even more casual) or a soft Bontoni loafer in mid brown. Only the bontoni, however, works (even if a bit of a stretch) if Im wearing a dressier suit instead of an odd jacket. With one of these, I find that I only need to pack running shoes.
I own the Edward Green Piccadilly which is, in my opinion the more ‘casual’ and also very versatile version of the Belgravia.
I also own the Loro Piana Open Walk in Brown and I have never and I mean never put a more comfortable, stylish and more versatile shoe on my foot.
What are your thoughts on them Simon?
To be honest, I’m not much of a fan. They’re incredibly comfortable, and made with fantastic materials, but not very elegant in the last or sole. I would never wear them with anything smart, and even as a trainer I don’t really like the style (which is more subjective than the smartness point)
I’m wearing that very model and color today, it’s grown to be my favourite shoe too. But I agree with Simon it’s not suitable for tailoring.
As a tassels admirer, I love how eclectic they are from trousers to casual jeans. I look forward to seeing more pairings with this amazing footwear!
Several people have mentioned the fact that two of your favourite shoes are RTW, which I think is interesting. I have never had bespoke shoes, but have had bespoke tailoring made and I agree going back to RTW jackets (trousers don’t seem to be as big an issue for me) is tough. Can it be concluded from this, that the there is no such marked contrast between RTW and bespoke shoes? Ie bespoke shoes are good because of the style, leather and aesthetics options but in terms of comfort they are not that much better?
For comfort, some are better but only a little, and some are worse – and of course you really feel it when they’re uncomfortable.
And on style, leather, aesthetics, you can get that on some RTW shoes now, from the Japanese makers and others
on confort, i follow the words of david coggins: “raise the level of what you are confortable with”
I have a pair of suede cap toe oxfords I wear very often in the colder months. They are mid-brown and go with everything less formal than a worsted suit.
Hi Peter how do you find they handle the rain and cold? I’ve always been put off suede thinking they’d get ruined in the wet
Suede actually handles Rain better than calf leather does. Just use a good repellant spray with some frequency, brush the nap up with a suede brush when they dried up after being wet and they`ll stay great for years.
Thank you Rollefc
I mostly wear them in the office. I cycle commute to work in the summer and wear boots through our snowy winter so these shoes don’t see much use outside.
That said, a good suede protector does help. When they have gotten water on them it hasn’t caused a problem. I also have a pair of Swims overshoes for when it is really wet and I have to wear them outside.
This is very interesting, Simon. Would you mind expanding on why do you prefer these to your “Crompton” G&Gs? I would have thought the hatch grain used on those would have made them even more versatile – a happy medium, if you will, between calfskin and suede.
I do love that texture for the way it ages, but it’s a lighter, reader brown than this and I find the slightly darker colour more versatile. You couldn’t wear that Crompton colour with any kind of dark trouser
Hi Simón,
Reviving this discussion to ask whether you would think that the Crompton on oak hatch grain (https://www.google.com/search?q=gaziano+girling+crompton&client=ms-android-verizon&prmd=insv&sxsrf=ACYBGNTpNM4Eu-MO1WkSY78tbh78KZJ6zQ:1578969278151&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi9t733hoLnAhVJMt8KHTXNBhEQ_AUoAXoECA8QAQ&biw=412&bih=724&dpr=2.63#imgrc=zEGjOnVZb9F08M) would achieve the versatility that you find lacking in the chestnut color of your bespoke pair?
Assuming similar color between the Gaziano Crompton and the EG Belgravia, how would you decide between them?
Thanks so much!
Yes, a darker brown would make the Crompton more versatile.
Between that and the Belgravia, I’d say it’s a question of the styles – Crompton is more chiselled and perhaps smarter, Belgravia rounded and slightly more casual. Also it depends how you feel about the tassels
Hi Simon,
I’m a freelance artist working in the creative industries – building up my sports coat and trousers/jeans wardrobe.
My shoe wardrobe is a bit eclectic, and has a dark brown penny loafer (corno blu), black penny loafer (Crockett and Jones), dark brown Oxford (corno blu), dark brown suede derby (Crockett and Jones), two pairs of RM Williams Chelsea boots in black and brown.
The black and brown penny loafers get the most wear by far each week, followed by the Chelsea boots.
Given that I don’t require anything too formal – would this Edward Green loafer be a good next purchase or would you (or any of your readers, really) suggest something else?
Thank you.
It sounds like you’re pretty well covered for the basics. I’d suggest something slightly more unusual, like a tobacco suede loafer or a colour 8 cordovan loafer perhaps from Alden. Both great with jeans and pale trousers
Interesting.
Brown leather tassel loafers with jeans is not really a good idea. Too formal mixing with informal.
Wear them with any shade of grey you like, worsted or flannel, and you are on much firmer ground.
Loafers, with our without the tassels, with jeans, need to be suede, and can range in colour from snuff to espresso. Somebody referred to Polo suede, but I’m not sure I know what that is.
There may be no rules. but the obvious is pretty simple.
And then add some snap, so the socks linking the suede loafer to the jean adds to the ensemble.
You say you are developing your style in casualwear Simon, which is great, so be open to the opinions of others who have been doing this for a while and everybody reading your site will benefit.
Thanks Tony. I disagree obviously, but welcome all the opinions of others too.
Sorry, disagree with what precisely? I made a number of points. Do you disagree with all of them, or one in particular?
Thanks
No worries. I disagree that brown leather tassel loafers with jeans is a bad idea. There are some details in replies to other comments
Thanks, so it comes down to personal taste in the end, although it seems I am not alone in saying it’s not a good match.
Absolutely. And I would always say that suede is a safer choice, and the choice someone who doesn’t normally wear that style should do first. It’s the starting point.
I even like experimenting with black loafers in the same style with dark denim, then cold things above the waist like a white shirt and grey knit. But again, that’s harder to do well. Brown suede is safest.
@Adrian
A suede Chukka-Boot would be next on my list.
Straight after that, Piccadilly would be next. But maybe in Suede.
@Simon
I can see why some disslike them with denim, but I quite like it. In my eyes they work better with dark grey fresco/crispaire rather than lighter grey fresco/crispaire though.
Are those blue socks with the grey trousers, Simon?
No, dark green
It’s a good article but I agree with Robert – I don’t think they go with the jeans. There is a reason: you wear them with jean turn-ups, I wear in a similar way with suede shoes however as the turn-ups show the inner seaming (unlike tailored trousers which are constructed differently), they detract from the formality and the denim and inner seaming clash with the smooth shininess of the loafers and the jeans therefore look a little over-mannered.
There is, generally, a reluctance to wear tasseled loafers in the UK (they are not widely worn), however, having read more widely on the subject there seems to be a strong US following with an additional acceptance in business circles?
That said it’s a very interesting read with a surprising conclusion re. RTW. I find RTW shoes to be mainly terrible (due to a difficult fit) but can easily find RTW sports jackets that fit extremely well without alteration. I therefore wonder if the essence of good fit from RTW (shoes and clothes) is the person’s form and it’s match to the various silhouettes and fits available (taking construction quality as a constant).
I love the shoes bar the tassels! Just a bit chief-y
Interesting. I eschewed bespoke after paying a King’s ransom for a pair of ‘Berluti’s’ that proved so uncomfortable they made me want my feet amputating.
So yes, as I’ve always advocated, shoes are different to tailoring and a good pair of RTW are just fine.
That said, for me my most versatile shoe is a Chelsea boot. Outside of summer I wear them with just about everything. They look great with casual suits and flannels whilst being a lot more appropriate with jeans than a tassel loafer.
Loafers do have their place however and certainly every self-respecting flaneur needs a pair in their collection. Personally I favour the ‘Joseph Cheaney’ Hadley Penny loafer which at £365 are less than half the price of EG and are, in my opinion, every bit as good.
Simon, have you tried Cheaney ? It would be good to see them road tested alongside the likes of EG and Lobb because I’m all for buying quality but don’t like spending money like a drunken sailor. My millions were hard earned !
Yes, I have tried them, though not for a few years. They’re still very good, but you do get more for your money as you climb the Northampton makers – just not necessarily twice as much for twice the price. All things like this have diminishing returns in that sense.
Great write-up. Simon, is there a reason you favour the Belgravia over the Piccadilly?
The Piccadilly isn’t my favourite style of penny loafer – a little high in the vamp for example.
I also like the tassels for adding a little extra character/being slightly more unusual
Interesting. In my book they’re the perfect pennyloafer.
Which one’s do you prefer?
Simon,
I would be genuinely interested in your view on this.
About a year ago, I visited EG’s Jermyn Street store with a view of buying a pair of their ‘Camden’ suede Chelsea boots at £1150. It was a considered purchase and I was to be straight in and out. I was put off by some poor service and left.
Having read a review, I thought I’d take a flyer and buy the Cheaney ‘Godfrey’ on line at £365.
They came the next day, fitted like a glove and are really quite beautiful.
In all honesty I really couldn’t see the difference between the two either stylistically or qualatively and the price difference is absolutely huge.
Now, you do this for a living and I have a huge respect for your qualitative eye – so tell me what is the difference ?
I ask this question both to satisfy myself and help others.
EG, Lobb , C&J and the like get a lot of play but I’m forming the opinion that it’s Cheaney that is the diamond in the rough.
There are a few things, most of which will be materials. An oak-bark tanned sole, for instance, the quality of the upper leather, and the internal linings. They might make no difference to you, but it’s those kind of things.
Northampton shoemakers are quite an easy one to compare, as they’re all making in the same place, with the same kind of workforce, and spend roughly the same amount on marketing, stores etc.
Much harder to compare a big fashion brand with a maker, for instance, or something made in Spain to made in England, as other costs all vary
Interesting. I’ve had a similar experience with regards to service.
I have some nice shoes from Cheaney and I find C&J to be good (particularly the Handgrade). I’d love to upgrade and I’ve tried several times to buy shoes from EG and G&G, but none of their lasts seem to fit me well. Some Cheaney, C&G and, particularly, one or two lasts from Church’s fit me much better. The issue seems to be the slimness of my heel – not any defect in the quality of EG and G&G, of course, just the idiosyncrasies of my anatomy. This also seems to rule out loafers from just about anyone. I’ve yet to find a pair that fit well enough, which is a shame because I’d love to have a pair (though not tasseled ones. I’ve always found them too fussy). Suede chukka boots and monk shoes are my default casual alternatives to Oxfords, though I’m always on the lookout for a pair of loafers that will fit. All suggestions gratefully received!
Hi Richard,
I have long but narrow feet and heels.
I too have an issue with heel slippage in loafers.
My Alden loafers in American B width with the slim Aberdeen last fit perfectly.
I also have a pair of Edward Green Piccadilly loafers in English C width which are a fairly good fit although the heels aren’t fitted as well as in the Alden’s.
I hope this helps.
I‘m sure the craftsmanship on these is exceptional, but to me tassel loafers died at the same time as that whole misguided preppy trend, around 2010. I gave away all the Alden and Crockett & Jones loafers I had, and it felt almost liberating. If nothing else, at least tassel loafers taught me a valuable lesson: Stick to oxfords, derbys and sneakers.
Almost all wool worth its while abides by this adage. Although Budd calls the wool in their dressing gowns “lovely” this is clearly a judgment at 5 to 10 years. At first, it is hard, dry and scratchy. After a number of years it is wonderful.
Most traditional British men’s suitings are in this category. I have a heavy navy hopsack suit ( I think it is 15/16 ounces ) and after about 5 years it is starting to be lovely, soft and really fit to me, while still having the wonderful drape and weight of real cloth.
Conversely, a fused suit can look wonderful and sharp day 1. But soon it behaves badly, or actually, doesn’t behave at all. It is a rigid carapace that soon looks shiny, stiff and odd with lapels curling and doing odd stuff.
Wear is the ultimate guide to quality. Bar one category : cashmere socks. These are just a slightly slower way of spending money than shovelling currency into a blast furnace.
Hi Simon-
I’m a huge fan of these and have wanted to try on a pair for some time but there are no stockists on the U.S. west coast so I’ve been unsure of sizing. Do you wear the same size in your Belgravias as you do in your Alden unlined loafers (but with the one size delta between English/US, i.e. US 11 = UK 10)? Thanks Simon.
Yes I do. I hope that’s helpful
Hi Simon,
I love loafers! However and strangely enough, I prefer seeing tassel loafers worn by friends! I’ve even succeeded after weeks if not months in goading a good friend to buy these Belgravia! I especially love their raised apron, something that signals to me the craftsmen behind their making. But unfortunately, this kind of feature is disappearing from today’s shoe industry, and I wonder why.
EG’s loafers that really match my expectations were their Pimlico. Apparently, not anymore available as RTW. Where about are we heading?
A question to you, Simon: could an oxfords’ last be easily converted into a loafers’ last?
John
I think often brands go for a lower apron as it seems to fit more men, but the fit overall is often poorer, because the foot isn’t held as well in the foot?
And no, generally you’d need a new last for loafers
Just to be clear, C&J lasts 341 and 348 are used both for oxfords and loafers.
Sorry, I meant making a bespoke last.
It’s hard to believe these are four years old and have been resoled too – they look great. It’s not only about how things age but that a little love and care keeps them looking so good for ages. It’s also quite therapeutic doing it!
Best wishes N
I love these articles showing how things age. Also refreshing (and a bit surprising perhaps) reading an article on tassel loafers that are not the C&J Cavendish.
Hi Simon,
Since you often write about suede loafers, why haven’t you worn your plain G&G bespoke suede loafer as much as the Belgravias? Are they less versatile for some reason? I’ve noticed they get less wear.
Yes, they are rather less versatile because the slim design and bespoke make means they look sharp and dressy – and yet are in suede. It’s a contrast I really like, but means they are only suited to particular things, such as a suit you want to make a touch more casual.
We’ve also had some issues with the fit and Daniel is stretching them a little at the moment
1. That’s quite interesting. I would think the plain front would make it even more versatile, and look very nice with knitwear. So you tend to wear the G&G bespoke loafers more with suits?
2. Stylistically what do you the butterfly loafer by Yuigo Hayano: (https://shoesavante.com/2018/09/20/underrated-shoes-the-butterfly-loafer/)? Would the formality sit to the equivalence of a penny or tassel loafer, and just look a bit different? Would it be as versatile a look? I appreciate the style and was thinking of commissioning it as a first suede of calf loafer.
3. You previously mentioned disliking loafers with elastic in-steps — how come?
1. Yes, the shape and make still it fairly dressy. So it wear it with tailored trousers and a sports jacket
2. I like butterfly loafers. Ever since Will Boehlke wrote about them in fact. Pretty much as versatile as a penny
3. They just look a little lazy to me, or perhaps affected (eg fake laces). It’s very personal though
Thanks. For point #3, do you have an link to an example of elastic on instep shoes that is more visible for me to understand what it is? I think maybe I’m misunderstanding what they are. I emailed Hayano and he says that these are butterfly loafers are actually elastic on instep shoes, so it isn’t a used loafer last. He says it’s called “inlock shoes”. I’m a bit confused…
Hi Simon,
I just purchased my first pair of EGs (Berkeley – Dark Brown on the 202 last). I’ve been wearing them around the house, but have yet to take them out owing, primarily, to not having had flush toe plates put on yet. Do you think them necessarily? Or do you think I can venture out in them safely without? I’m hopeing that through good care, my EGs can age as well as yours have! Thanks!
Another, seconary question: what measures can one take in order to prepare dress shoes with leather soles for a sudden downpour? I have applied sole oil, but past this, I’m not sure what else I can do.
Whether you need toe plates or not depends on how you walk really – how much you wear the toes down. But don’t worry about taking them out. You can easily put on toe plates at any stage, even when they’re a bit worn.
Polish is the best thing for the leather, it builds up protection. On the upper and around the welt. Don’t worry so much about the sole.
Thanks a lot, Simon. I appreciate it, and so do the shoes, who have just been treated to their first stroll.
On the subject of how things age (slightly tenuous segue, but it’s the best I can do!) do you have any tips on what to do with jackets when the elbows start to wear thin? I have two lovely cashmere jackets on which I’m starting to see the threads. Is there any way to have them brushed to bring the nap back, or are patches (tweedy professor style) the only option? In both cases the rest of the jacket is in perfect condition, so it seems a shame to retire them.
Brushing is unlikely to help much – it would if the hair were matted, but if it’s worn down it won’t help.
Some kind of patch, either under or over, in similar wool or cashmere, or suede or leather, is the only option.
Thanks, yes, I feared as much. Have you ever done anything like this? Would be curious to know how it turned out if so…
No I haven’t, sorry. The Richard Anderson video gives some insight on how it works if that’s helpful.
Hey Simon I’m wondering what are your views on cordovan loafers from alden?
I’m thinking of getting a pair but am debating between a color 8 cordovan or a dark brown calf loafer. Which in your opinion is more versatile? I currently own dark brown suede and black calf loafers
I love them, but more the Aberdeen last (which is rather slimmer) than the Barrie (which you get mostly in Europe and is better known).
I also love the colour 8 – I’d go for that if it’s your first pair. It’s a classic in cordovan; you can can get plenty of dark brown in other shoes.
Hi simon i have two dark brown calf suede loafers and a black calf loafer. Looking to either add a dark brown calf or a cordovan color 8 loafer. Would one pair be more versatile than the other? I’m swaying more towards the cordovan pair for novelty as I have never owned cordovan shoes before and I like how it looks with a workwear type aesthetic. How would it look with more traditional office wear? Eg blue Oxford shirt and grey high twist etc.
The cordovan would certainly be more interesting, but the brown calf would be more versatile and I think, in the long term, the better choice.
Cordovan might struggle with some formal outfits, depending on how smart/slim the design is.
Mr.Crompton,
I take opportunity of the most recent article on EG to bring you a doubt I have.
I’m bit skeptical in wearing high end shoes (EG) with leather sole when the weather is humid or even wet…I look after my shoes with all the needed attentions but still, I almost suffer when a leather sole hit a non perfectly leveled and dry cement 🙂
Do you think that an added thin layer of rubber (added by my shoemaker) would be that negative for the sole transpiration?
Thanks and best regards
Henry
To be honest, I don’t think you would feel the difference of breathability with an added rubber sole. Few people do I find.
However, I wouldn’t worry too much about soles in wet weather. They’re meant to stand up to it, just make sure they and the upper are left for long enough to dry out afterwards.
And leather shoes are meant to be worn in, looked after, and look better for it. Lean into the wearing process
I absolutely love these shoes and they are next on my list. How did you size them compared to your other shoes? I bought C&J penny loafers a few years back and was advised to go smaller than my usual size, because they would stretch and become comfortable. Unfortunately they’ve never stretched quite enough, so I wear them sporadically for short periods.
I’m also interested to know what you think of horse-bit loafers, as I remember my grandfather (who was always a man of style) often wearing them when I was a younger, but I am struggling to find a nice pair that’s Goodyear welted (an hopefully long lasting). Would love to hear your thoughts.
I took my usual size, and I’ve pretty much always done that with loafers. The only time I’d consider sizing down for that reason is when they’re unlined.
I don’t like horse-bit loafers, but it’s all fashion and association. For me they mean cheap, showy Gucci loafers.
Hi Simon-
I hoped to get your opinion. I am deciding between the EG Greenwich in black cordovan and the Alden tassel in the same, the latter I think of as slightly more casual (I have the Alden tassel in brown suede and wear them all the time). Obviously a decent price difference between those two but I’d rather stretch it a bit if the EGs are a better choice.
My day-to-day is similar to what you reference above- grey trousers and odd jackets, with the occasional navy or grey fresco suit (I’m in LA). My question is, now that you have the EG in black shell, have you found them to be as useful as you describe above in integrating them into a semi-formal wardrobe? Thanks Simon
Hey Justin,
Yes I have, they’ve worked very well.
Between those two models, I’d weigh up the fact that the Greenwich will be smarter (slimmer, narrower welt etc) and better quality of make – and how much those reflect your priorities
Why don’t you wear any butterfly loafers that you like them so much Simon?
I just don’t happen to have any, that’s all. I’ve just generally gone for tassels or penny straps.
Hi Simon,
I have been wearing a pair of black C&J Sydney Loafers but found the leather to be a bit too stiff and dull. Since I want to upgrade to a higher quality leather now, I am thinking about Carmina cordovan or Bontoni. What is your thought on a good upgrade from a C&J standard line black calf leather loafer? Most importantly the leather should be softer and the color should have more depth and shine.
Thanks!
Hi Raphael,
I don’t think Carmina would be an upgrade in that regard. Bontoni might be, but I don’t know them well enough to say really.
The obvious upgrade would be to the next level of English maker, Gaziano, Green, Lobb. They would certainly feel different
Thank you.
Still have not made up my mind.
Have you had the opportunity to look at the collaboration between the Armoury and Yohei Fukuda? I like aesthetics of the Jiro-Last Duane Penny loafer- reminds me of Green’s Piccadilly loafers.
Yes Raphael, I saw the Armoury shoes when they were launched, in our pop-up shop. They’re great shoes, and well made, but to be honest the styles didn’t appeal to me that much. I would stick with my English standards of Crocketts or Edward Green.
When one has shoes like this resoled, what kind of sole does one hope for and what kind(s) should one not settle for? I ask because you mention oak-tanned soles in connection with these, and I would imagine that cobblers might well not have those in stock, at least not in the northern Midwest of the USA where I live. Thanks.
You’re right Augustus, they’re unlikely too. It’s one of the reasons many send the shoes back to the factory – it’s expensive, but you get the same quality of parts and a complete refurb.
Other than being oak-bark tanned, I’m not sure there’s an easy way to tell the quality of the soles you’re getting I’m afraid. I would suggest seeking out the best re-soler locally – one that others have used and can recommend, and not the cheapest.
Simon, what do you make of Foster and Sons new RTW range made in-house? Competitor to EG/GG as to quality?
It seems so, yes, though I haven’t tried either in person, so it’s hard to say much more
Hi Simon, I am slowly building a nice and versatile collection of quality shoes and I recently bought my first EGs. The Fulham in burgundy. Very happy with them so far but I am a bit disappointed about the following. The optional EG shoe trees available in the shop where I bought the shoes were not specific to the last – totally different shape actually. The EG shoe care guidance note enclosed with the shoes literally recommends using shoe tree with the exact shape of the last. Contacted EG to see if I could order those and they told me that ordering lasted shoe trees would costs £245.00. For a ready to wear pair of shoes on one of their standard lasts… I don’t understand why one would stress the importance of having trees in the right shape and then make it prohibitively difficult and expensive to get them. Makes me wonder how rational their other decisions are.
Would you just use trees that are sort of the right shape and size or would you go for lasted ones? I am doing the former and seems to be OK but just wondering if you have any thoughts on this. Many thanks
To be honest Jan, I’ve never used lasted shoe trees on ready-to-wear shoe trees, only bespoke ones, and never noticed any negative effects.
As long as the shoe tree is pushing out all round the vamp and flattening those creases, it’s doing the vast majority of the job.
Many thanks for your response, Simon. I guess pushing out all round the vamp and flattening those creases is not entirely possible with a shoe tree that has a different shape but it works OK and I will stop whining now.
As long as there’s decent tension all round, it should work OK Jan. I wouldn’t worry too much about it
Hi Simon,
I have a question regarding the durability and value for money of suede vs leather.
I am considering purchasing penny loafers (EG Piccadilly, depending on whether they please me in the flesh).
Preferrably I would purchase brown suede, but can imagine that brown leather would be more durable, less prone to stretching, and more value for money. What is your view on this?
Furthermore, do you have any preference on a leather vs a rubber sole for loafers (suede is rubber, calf is leather)?
For some perspective: This is part of my yearly splurge, and not a purchase to be made without consideration for me.
Thank you in advance for your suggestions and have a great day!
Hi there,
In my experience on suede shoes like this, I wouldn’t worry too much about stretching. Or value for money really. It’s more a question of what suits your wardrobe, and which you will like more over the years. Suede can look good for a long time if looked after well, but won’t age like leather – changing colour a little, gaining character and so on.
Perhaps have a look at today’s article on leather vs rubber soles?
https://www.permanentstyle.com/2020/04/shoes-in-wet-weather-the-best-ways-to-prevent-rain-damage.html
Cheers
Hey Simon,
What kind of sole would you prefer?
Classic leather sole or the R1 slim rubber sole?
Be
It depends a little on how much of a workhorse they would be in the wardrobe. See this post for some thought there
Hi Simon,
They really are gorgeous things. I actually just inherited a pair of EG loafers made for Ralph Lauren Purple label on the 909 last. They look very much like the Belgravia, but the tassle strings (?) are flat rather than woven.
They are very comfortable, and I can comfortably walk on the flat without heel slippage, but when walking up stairs, for example, I do get a bit of slippage. I personally do not like to keep shoes and other items like this that I am likely to wear for decades if the fit is not ideal; I would rather pass them on to somebody for whom they would be perfect.
Other than these, I only own oxfords (Chelsea and Berkeley) and one pair of derbies (dover) from EG. I wonder if I am simply expecting too close a fit from a loafer.
I notice in a couple of the photographs of your Belgravias that there is a bit of room at the heel. Do you experience any slippage at all? Would appreciate your thoughts!
Hardly any Luke, no. Being ready-made, I’d never expect that to be perfect, but they function well which is the main thing.
Sounds like your old RLPL loafers are lovely
I think that loafers should be bought snug.
I find EG leather awesome in modelling around my feet , that’s why for EG loafers I always preferred a snug fit (snug, not short).
First time I’ve worn my EG loafer i was tempted to say “ouch…I bought the wrong size” but after wearing for 3/4 times (even for just few hours) they became my go-to loafer (formal or informal) – I even wear them with shorts without socks.
My foot never sleeps out of the shoe.
…while with laced shoes I prefer to size up 1/2 number(or wear my “real shoe size”), laces do their job and the shoe gives more room to allow heavier/ticker socks.
(I must admit that my EG loafers all have leather sole which I tend to use only in warmer months without or with lightweight socks.)
p.s. I always wondered if my foot is just lucky to have the EG 6.5/7 perfectly fitting my shoe shape 🙂
Thank you so much, both! It must also be said that I have been breaking them in around the house, being as I am in lockdown still. I think that once I am wearing them out and about, my feet will probably swell a little more also, which should help.
Three further questions if you don’t mind my asking: will resoling have any effect on the snugness? And Simon, typically how long does it take to have shoes resoled by EG? Finally, I agree with you, Enry, that EGs leather molds beautifully to the foot. I wonder though, having no experience with secondhand EGs, will the leather moulded to the previous wearer’s foot remould still further to accommodate my idiosyncrasies?
In just my experience Luke:
– No, resoling didn’t make them any snugger, at least not for more than a wear or two
– I’m afraid I can’t remember how long mine took
– The leather will mould a little, yes, but it won’t be the same as if the shoe was yours from the start
Thanks again, Simon. And thank you for the series. I wonder whether you are thinking of perhaps covering an old suit and how it has aged? A real workhorse? It would be interesting to see how some details, such as elbows and buttonholes, wear over time.
Ok sure, good idea
Hi Simon,
I have a pair of this but on the Utah leader. To be honest, I’m scared to use them much outside because I feel they will have to be resoled quite frequently (not the cheapest if the closed channel is to be maintained). Given that you use them quite often, I wondered how often do you tend to resole them? Do you walk long distances outside with them?
Hi Noel,
Yes I do, and I’ve only had to resole them once in this time. Don’t be too precious with yours – good leather shoes are meant to be worn, and look better with age. Just look after them well.
I saw you trying on EG’s Cranleigh boots on IG. How did you like them??
A lot. A nice example of something that looks rugged enough to wear with quite casual clothes, Workwear etc, but feels amazing for using luxurious materials
Thanks Simon for great write up! I have been following your Permanent Style pretty much from the beginning and I remember you were not so fond of tassel loafer in the beginning. Am I mistaken or it was just a change of preference during your sartorial journey. Do you wear the same width on your black cordovan and brown calf Belgravia? Do you notice any difference? As I was told people usually go one width smaller for cordovan as the cordovan does not stretch as much as calf in the making so the fit will be looser when the show is made. Thanks for your reply in advance.
Thanks WK, yes you’re right I didn’t used to like tassels as much. I think it was largely a cultural thing, with the association largely faded now.
I take the same width – I haven’t noticed a difference in the fit
I’m curious: What cultural associations did tassels convey?
I think some people associate them with upper classes in England, and Ivy dressers in the US, which aren’t necessarily positive – makes you a bit of a ‘toff’ perhaps.
What brand are those ribbed socks? I really like that style but don’t know what to search for or how to find them.
They’re Bresciani, bought from Mes Chaussettes Rouges. The latter website has the biggest range for all these knee-length socks
Hi Simon,
Great write up and the article Made me look into tassel loafers as my next purchase. I came across the c&j studridge Made for angloitalian. Have you seen these in person and how do they compare to the belgravia’s in terms of style?
It looks like the c&j’s have a lower vamp and a rounder toeshape looking at the pictures.
Yes I think that’s right. I haven’t tried them, but that’s the style. It’s very much the Anglo-Italian look in the shoes – a little stubbier
Do you think the braiding in the EG and the AI models makes them a tad more formal? I have a pair of tassels from Alden (in #8 shell) that I wear with everything from jeans to flannels. I’m considering the AI model in black to wear in a similarly wide range of outfits, but I wonder if the braiding would look out of place in casual outfits.
I’m not sure it makes much difference to be honest. It’s a very small thing compared to the presence of the tassels themselves.
If you had the choice to have or have not, then perhaps go without, but I wouldn’t let it override any other factors.
Hi Simon, would you say that you can spend a good few hours comfortably walking in these? Which shoes would you recommend for going out for a long walk in the city without reverting to sneakers?
I can, but loafers are never going to be the best thing for long periods of walking.
Derbys are usually the best, and I’d put my unlined Dovers from EG in that bracket.
Hi – I just wondered what colour these are? Dark oak? Presumably it is partly the mid brown colour which makes them so versatile?
Also are standard EG shoe trees ok for this model – I vaguely remember reading somewhere that the standard trees are just for the 202/606s but I am probably mistaken.
Best wishes
Yes, dark oak. But with a good deal of wear over the years, the occasionally darker polish and so on.
Yes it’s the mid-brown that makes them so useful.
The standard trees are fine, yes. Most of the time ordinary trees are fine I find. Unless the shape is quite unusual – particularly slim, or particularly wide. Or of course bespoke
Hi Simon,
What shoe tree do you use for these? EG own in the same size as the shoe? I didn’t get a pair of their shoe trees when I got my Belgravia pair(they seemed pricy). I’ve found the shoe trees that I have too big for the size, so I’ve been using a travel pair which isn’t ideal. I wonder which trees I should get that will fit well and not stretch them.
Anything that fits OK is fine, you don’t need the EG ones. Buy anything decent in wood that’s the same size and fits ok for the width
Yes of course. It’s just that none seem to fit well (with the exception of a travel one). It’s somewhat odd, but perhaps the loafer’s last is slightly unusual. Before buying another one online I can’t try in advance, I wondered if you had the EG trees. Perhaps those are guaranteed to fit.
They should certainly fit well, yes, but I’d be surprised if you couldn’t find a decent fit elsewhere. The key thing the tree is doing is just keeping that vamp at the front a little stretched out, so it doesn’t dry out or form permanent creases
Hey Simon. I´d be very grateful if you could opine on EG´s “Rochester” loafer, as sold by Gentlemen´s Footwear: https://gentlemensfootwear.com/collections/edward-green/products/edward-green-rochester-full-strap-loafer-in-mink-suede
What do you think of the styling?
Thanks.
I think that’s nice, elegant styling for a dressy loafer. Great with smarter clothes and tailoring, but not something I’d usually wear with more casual things
Hi Simon- you refer to your Belgravia shoes as being mid-brown. I can only find them in dark oak. That’s the shoe shown when following the link in your posting. Do you think we’re talking about the same color shoe?
Thank you,
Bill
Yes we are. It’s still dark brown I guess, but to me it feels like more of a mid-brown given this is what I refer to as dark brown
Hi Simon, thanks to you, I am inspired and looking to purchase my first pair of loafers, and was wondering if you had any advice for me. From what I see here, you often wear and claim that the EG belgravia is your favourite pair of shoes, but I also do see you wear a lot of the Baudoin & Lange Sagans. You also end off the article saying that a brown suede loafer might be even more versatile than a leather one. I know they are not in the same price bracket, but was wondering if you had advice on which loafer (or any others) that I should go for as my very first loafer, and maybe the variation (tassel?), leather choice and colour that i should get. Thanks!
Hi Vincent,
To start with, don’t consider the Sagan – that’s just a lightweight summer shoe really. Certainly, it shouldn’t be your first good loafer.
On maker, Edward Green is great but so is Crockett & Jones if you want to go slightly cheaper.
On colour, brown will always be the most useful unless you work in a formal office.
On material, leather is smarter than suede. Think about how smart you will normally wear them.
On design, if it’s your first one then go with a simple penny loafer. Tassels are great but it is much more of a style choice.
If just one pair of loafers, ever, would it be brown penny/tassle? Leather?
For me, a brown suede tassel. But that wouldn’t suit everyone of course (taste and circumstances)
Hi simon, do you find yourself sizing half size down for loafers off the shelf? I find loafers that are comfortable off the shelf seem to expand by almost half a size within a years wear (I can almost insert a whole finger into the heel when i’m wearing the loafers) However trying a shoe a half size down off the shelf seem to hurt terribly as well. Is that conundrum you have too?
I don’t have any rules for sizing up or down consistently based on the style of the shoe. It always surprises me when people do – it’s too dependent on the last shape used. A slim loafer from Edward Green has less room in the width than most dressy oxfords from Alden.
I buy much more based on the last. I also don’t find that loafers expand that much over time either, no. Sometimes what happens is the sole is quite stiff to start with, and that softens over time, and you feel your feet move around inside more.
Hi Simon, I’ve now purchased a pair of the Edward Green
Belgravia in Dark Oak based on this article but I’m now debating whether to
purchase a pair of Edward Green ‘Dover’s. I’ve seen your pair on many occasions
either on here or on Instagram but I’m torn between the Dark Oak or the Redwood
colour. I own several Edward green shoes/boots in the Dark Oak but wondered
what would go best with this Redwood colour? I tend to wear relatively dark
slim jeans and lighter coloured cords/chinos. Your opinion would be appreciated!
Hey Stuart,
Well if you’ve just bought the Belgravia, I’d wait a few months and see how they bed in before buying another pair of expensive shoes.
As to colour, I think the only argument for the Redwood really, is if you wear a lot of paler trousers and don’t have many good shoes to wear with them. With any dark trouser, the dark oak is always going to be better.
Dark Oak in the ‘Dover’ it is then! Thanks again.
No worries, pleased I could help
Given that you seem to have some insights – I just read an article about the closure of the Skoaktiebolaget shop mentioning that when they started ca. 10 years ago, they sold EGs at ca. EUR 700. Now prices are mostly in the 1200-1400 EUR range. Other than inflation, any ideas why? Did something change substantially about the cost of manufacturing, or did they just maximize margins? Is the company actually family owned or is it some institutional investor?
There are a few factors I think. Leather prices have gone up substantially, for example. I’m not sure if that accounts for all of it, but you can see price rises at other makers too.
Yes, EG is family owned as far as I know too, by Hilary (her nephew Euan you are more likely to have seen perhaps – he runs the marketing and ecommerce).
Does the Belgravia loafer run true to size ?? I currently do not have any loafers in my shoe wardrobe. Would you recommend the Belgravia or the Picadilly as a first Edward Green Loafer Purchase ?
Yes, I find it does Scottie. The only hard thing with loafers, if you haven’t owned them before, is getting a heel that holds you enough not to slip out a lot. Easiest to try that on in person if you can.
Both the Belgravia and the Piccadilly are great, just different styles. The Piccadilly is probably more conservative, a touch smarter. It’s a simpler style and easier to wear with smarter things in particular.
The Belgravia is a little lower at the front, but the biggest thing is whether you like tassels or not. I do, but I know a lot of people don’t.
Hi Simon, After trying different sizes and fittings in Edward Green’s shop, I made to order the Belgravia F fitting in suede and finally received it.
However, I find it pretty tight around my ball of the feet and toes. The length feels fine, but I feel like my toes are cramped together. Did you also feel this when you first bought it? Would it go away?
Many thanks,
Jack
I didn’t to be honest, no. Suede will soften a bit, but if they feel cramped together now then it’s always going to feel tight.
Did you try that width and last in the store first? Did that not feel tight?
Yes, I did.
I tried four different sizes (8e, 8 1/2e, 8f, 8 1/2f), but they were leather as they didn’t have stock for the suede. 8 1/2f was the most comfortable for me at the time (my measurement is 8 1/2 length and width f). Still, the staff suggested going for 8f as the length wasn’t short for me and would stretch more than leather as it will be suede. I bought 8f, which was still pretty snug around the width of the toe box, but it was manageable if there would be some stretch.
It is not very tight now but less comfortable than what I have been wearing (C&J’s Cavendish, Church’s Pembrey). How does it sound to you? Do you think I chose the wrong size?
Many thanks,
Jack
If sounds like you could probably wear that or the half size up, with one being tighter on the front and the other looser on the back. There’s often that kind of trade off with loafers
Oh right. I think the loafer fitting is tricky. I feel so much better with silk socks. Maybe I should wear thinner socks for now. Thanks, Simon.
Yes, I did.
I tried four different sizes (8e, 8 1/2e, 8f, 8 1/2f), but they were leather as they didn’t have stock for the suede. 8 1/2f was the most comfortable for me at the time (my measurement is 8 1/2 length and width f). Still, the staff suggested going for 8f as the length wasn’t short for me and would stretch more than leather as it will be suede. I bought 8f, which was still pretty snug around the width of the toe box, but it was manageable if there would be some stretch.
It is not very tight now but less comfortable than what I have been wearing (C&J’s Cavendish, Church’s Pembrey). How does it sound to you? Do you think I chose the wrong size?
Many thanks,
Jack
Hi Simon,
I have Edward Green’s Chelsea in dark oak, but I find this too light as I bought this to wear like ‘dark brown’ shoes. Edward Green’s staff suggested sending the shoes back to their factory to paint to make them darker, almost like a dark brown. Would you recommend this, or should I polish them myself with time for a natural darkening effect?
Many thanks,
Jack
If the factory can give you a clear indication of how they look (perhaps in reference to another shoe) that sounds like a good idea
Hi Simon hope you’re well. I saw you have few pairs of EG loafers (Belgravia) did you got it your usual size or half a size bigger. I get two pairs in January in size 9 but just tried today and feels bit tight on the arch . Any thoughts and suggestions please
Thank you
I got my usual size. However, bear in mind people’s feet do vary, and different lasts will have different effects on them. Most of the time that’s the cause of sizing issues rather than the model running large generally, if that makes sense
Hi Simon
Yeah that’s true. Also I got it in winter which might be a factor that it’s feel bit tight on summer.
Hi Simon. I’m struggling to gauge what would be a nice suede version of this but without costing >£600 and without the tassels?
Is the C&J Harvard 2 insufficiently slim to work with tailoring?
The Harvard 2 could be fine with tailoring, just a slightly different style. Maybe more suited to a wider leg and more relaxed jacket.
But I haven’t really tried out any alternatives so it’s hard to say specifically I’m afraid.
Hi Simon, which colour do you use to polish EG’s dark oak?
Also, I polished my mid-brown shoes last night with neutral cream, but there are so many white creases. Could you suggest what I can do about this?
Many thanks,
Jack
It depends whether you want to keep the same colour or change it, Jack. I would use a tan colour to keep it the same, a dark brown or black to darken it.
I’m a little worried you are saying you polished with a cream, as polish and cream are different. But anyway, those white creases mean you’ve applied too much. Try polishing the shoe more in those creases to get rid of it, or brush it, or simply wipe it off.
Thanks, Simon.
I believe the product I used was neutral beeswax-based polished cream by Saphir. Is this alright? or should I get another product to bring it polished?
Generally creams are for keeping the leather from drying out Jack, but not for polishing them. They need to be used less often
Gosh, I didn’t know that. I thought Saphir’s cream polish was similar to polishing wax product,, except it gives less shine. Should I use their ‘wax polish’ product then?
I don’t know the specific differences between those products Jack, I’m just talking about creams and polishes in general
Hey Simon,
Wanted to get your thoughts about the belgravias but in black. Would they look good with dark denim jeans? Or are they better suited for formal trousers? I guess moving to a more general question – black tassel loafers in general with jeans.
Cheers,
Enzo
I think the can look good with jeans, yes, but it’s not the normal look, more of a contrast, almost fashion look. If you want something easier I’d go for an Alden in cordovan black or Color 8
Enzo, sorry to edge in. Simon do you reckon this has to do with the high oil content of Cordovan vs the sheen/gloss whatever we can call it of calf?
So a pair of Alden tassels in black cordovan vs a pair of EG Belgravias in black calf? Or a pair of EG boots in calf vs a pair of Alden tankers in black cordovan? particularly unpolished cordovan.
I’m also trying to incorporate more black casually, but I know there is definitely a knack to making it look good. I’m taking some inspiration from Letiquette most recently.
Cheers
Yes I think that makes a difference, though a small one. If you polished cordovan it would be a smaller difference still. Personally I think a dark Color 8 would be easier there
Hello Simon, Edward seems to have launched an updated version. What do you think about it? I am not so sure… https://www.edwardgreen.com/shop/belgravia-unlined-mink-suede-brown-184-last.html
I actually helped them with that! I love it, it’s incredibly comfortable.
What were you unsure about?
Doesn’t making it unlined weaken the structure somewhat Simon?
I have a pair of EG’s Shanklin unlined and the top part almost collapses when the shoe is ’empty’, making it harder to put them on. I’m unsure how much cooler unlined shoes are. So far I’ve only had them for a few years so I can’t really comment about longevity. Wouldn’t an unlined loafer make even less sense given that much more of the foot is already exposed?
It doesn’t really, no. The structure is different to the Shanklin. For example, because of the interlaced strip around the top of the Belgravia, it needs a strip of lining around the top on the inside to cover it. Then, like the Shanklin, the heel cup and the toe puff have to have lining behind them.
So it’s really only the sides of the foot that are unlined – but that’s the bit you want unlined, because that’s where you press on and where the extra comfort therefore comes from.
I can’t comment on the longevity obviously, having not worn them that long, but I can’t see it would make much difference given where the unlined area actually is. I’ve never had that part on any shoe get worn away or need repairing.
I would buy them for comfort rather than coolness though. I don’t think they are that much cooler. Though I guess comfort matters more when your feet are hot perhaps.
Hi Simon, I think it would be great if you could please consider writing a review about the Belgravia unlined loafers.
Many thanks,
Jack
Hi Jack,
Sure, though can I ask what you want to know exactly? They’re very similar to the lined ones which I’ve covered so much over the years, as here
I see. I thought some general review of what made you start the project EG when you still love the lined version. Also, whether you think you would wear the unlined version more often than the lined version and visa versa. If so, which occasion would you pick them and why?
However, it’s absolutely fine if they are too similar and you think it would be tricky to write as an article. I personally thought something like the C&G’s Harvard review would be helpful for EG’s mink suede loafers.
Understood, thanks Jack
Hi Simon, I was wondering whether you find unlined EG’s Belgravia loafers’ fit slightly roomier (especially around the toe box) than the lined version?
Unfortunately, I had to sell my lined version of Belgravia after trying several times, as they were pretty uncomfortable around my balls of the feet. I am hoping that the unlined version may be better.
Many thanks,
Jack
I wouldn’t say they were roomier Jack, no. Softer, but not with more internal room. You might be better off looking at a half size up
Thanks, Simon.
It sounds like they could be slightly better for tightness if they are softer. My main issue was that the straps on the side of the loafers were compressing the balls of my feet.
Do you think you could still wear the unlined version during the late autumn and winter?
Yes, I think you could wear them in any way you’d normally wear a loafer
Hi Simon, I was wondering whether your pinky toes slightly touch the toe cap’s wall of the Belgravia? My toes aren’t cramped but slightly touch the wall, and I want to ensure a proper fit this time.
Many thanks,
Jack
Mine don’t Jack, no. You don’t want them to touch really, because then they’ll get crushed a little bit when you walk and the foot rolls forward. But I would also say that it’s very hard, almost impossible, to judge fit remotely like this. I think you need to speak to an experienced shoe fitter
To be honest, they were not very helpful at the store. Would you have anyone professional to suggest in central London?
Also, Simon, do you have a high instep? I am trying to figure out whether this pain from the ball of my feet is from the relatively low instep shape of the EG’s loafers.
Since you have Harvard loafers from C&G, how would you compare them with EG’s Belgravia in terms of the fit? (narrow, low instep, vamp, long/short). The Harvard model fits me very comfortably. I think it would help me much if you could compare these models.
Not really Jack – the people in the stores should be the best, though they themselves will vary rather.
I would discourage you from trying to compare your feet too closely to mine like this, it really is too difficult to tell.
Sure, thanks, Simon, for your advice.
Dear Simon! Some advice please: So far I have only one pair of black shoes (oxfords) in my wardrobe. I wanted to add a second more casual one to wear with sport coats and with casual suits (= not worsted, maybe flannel). So I thought about a black tassel loafer. I really like the low vamp style of Alden (I have the same colour 8 full strap like you). But I don’t think that the Alden design works in combination with tailoring (a bit chunky), although I realize many people disagree. So I thought about the EG Belgravia in black calf. Since I am still longing for that low vamp look I was also thinking about the Armoury “Hudson” loafer (which can obviously not be the same quality as EG). https://thearmoury.com/products/hudson-tassel-loafer?variant=32131235610695
I already own the Hudson in brown suede and I am really happy with it (although I should propably try one size up).
I guess you would naturally always go for EG, because you like the style, quality etc.
To be honest I am also tending towards the Belgravia. I am in my mid 30s and I want to buy the shoes now that I will hopefully wear for the next 15-20 years. That is (partly) why I don’t want to economize with shoes, because I think it is the wrong place to do that. Arguably it is also more fun to buy a different style (the Belgravia), than to buy the same shoe a second time in a different upper (the Hudson).
Am I missing something apart from that I am left alone with a style/price/quality decision?
PS: Would you wear your Belgravia with a grey high twist or flannel suit? Imagine it without a tie and with a black polo underneath. (I guess still not. And I know the discussion about wearing suits without a tie.)
I think your logic all makes sense Alexander. I wouldn’t feel bad about getting the same style in the Hudson if it works for you, but you appreciate the little differences in aspects of quality.
On the PS, yes I would. See them here with a flannel suit and a black polo!
Thank you for your response and the link!
Considering your writing on loafer sizing I ordered the Belgravia in half a size up from my standard UK size. Please allow me a follow up question concerning style: Is there anything out there that comes close to the Belgravia for you in terms of style? It seems to me that the style of a tassel loafer is especially tricky to get right. For example the loafers of G&G or Saint Crispin’s are just too flashy for me. The tassel loafer shoe in itself is already pretty bold, so to my taste brands should try to play it down with a rounder last etc. what they almost never do. I hope the Belgravia delivers that necessary amount of understatement.
I think it does. It’s a little on the slim side compared to some of the American makers like Alden, though. If you wanted something rounder and still subtle (also with a lower vamp) you could look to them.
Thank you. I own two Alden loafers and wear them with chinos and jeans. But like I said I feel they are not a good match with tailoring.
Yes OK, that makes sense. The Belgravia is probably good then
Yes, they are slim, but nonetheless comfortable on my wide feet according to my first impression. And the vamp is surprisingly lower than I expected. Do you also wear your Belgravia in E width?
Yes I do
Hi Simon, hopefully this article is the most appropriate place to ask this question (re your first photo of the Belgravias with denim). I was about to walk out the door this morning with a double cuff on my jeans (gentle taper, fairly straight cut done by BLA as a colab) with a pair of EG Harrow loafers and the cuff looked off to me – bit too much of a contrast of the wider finish at the bottom of the jean with the sleeker loafer. Switched for Crockett boots and felt more right. Do you find that double cuffing generally is harder to pull off with smarter shoes, or is it a case by case thing for you?
Going without the cuff is definitely a bit smarter, if you were going to pick one. But I don’t mind the cuff with both smart and casual. I think it’s a personal style thing – go without the cuff with smarter shoes if you prefer
Cheers Simon, I found that the single cuff made the jeans look a bit more cleanly tapered but they were too long for that and the double cuff seemed to make the line a bit bulky on the inside (could be my lack of technique but really struggling to get the a double cuff spread evenly). Will stick with it a bit and see if I just get them shortened (and live with the sacrilege)
Hi Simon, could I ask which cream you use for the EG’s dark oak?
Many thanks,
Jack
Uncoloured.
Hi Simon, I’ve been looking at purchasing a pair of Belgravias for a while now, given I’ve seen how versatile they’ve been for you. I already have a pair of dark brown calf penny loafers, dark brown suede tassel loafers and black pebble-grain calf penny loafers. As such, I think the only pair of Belgravias I could justify are black suede. Curious as to whether you prefer your black calf or your black suede Belgravias and why. I think I’m leaning towards the suede as they feel slightly more casual and the soft texture takes the edge off of the connotations of a shiny black tassel loafer (in Australia, it’s seen as being very Ivy League/lawyer/banker). Thanks!
I think black suede is an edge case, an unusual look, and I’d always wear the calf more. Suede is in theory more casual, but in black it’s quite striking
Thanks Simon, really appreciate having the benefit of your experience (I had thought the opposite given my experience with this in brown loafers only)
Oh good, pleased it was helpful
Hi Simon, it was nice to see you again at the pop-up store the other day. I am pleased with the items I bought from your collection, and I think they fit me well. I wore the Edward Green Dovers yesterday, and I noticed they were really comfortable, a completely different feeling from my other pair of Edward Greens, perhaps because these had been worn and softened up several years by you. I am not sure if you remember, but I had many fitting issues with their shoes, especially the Belgravia. However, after wearing your pair for a day, I realised maybe I wasn’t patient enough with their leather. Would you say most of your Edward Greens are similar to this pair? If so, approximately how long did it take you to soften them up and for them to become comfortable?
Many thanks,
Jack
Hi Jack,
I’m sure wearing them has made some difference. They’ve also been polished and had cream on them five or six times over the years.
However, I’d imagine the biggest improvement with the fit comes from the fact that they are a derby, which is so much easier to fit on a wider range of feet than a loafer – there is the biggest range of ability to tighten and adapt to different shapes.
They have aged well. Also, I think they look good with smart jeans too.
I was wondering if you have ever tried re-lasting the shoes from Edward Green to half a size down? If so, do you think doing this could make any difference in terms of the heel slippage issues with the Belgravia loafers? Do you also feel they do not hold your feet well compared to other loafers, such as their Piccadilly? Personally, they don’t provide any support to keep my feet in, even though they are the right size for me.
I haven’t, no, how would you do that, through EG themselves?
It could perhaps make some difference, yes, though it depends how extreme the change was that was needed.
I have the same effect with the Piccadilly yes
Yes, they can either shorten the length or narrow the width by sending the shoes back to their factory.
Interesting. Let me know how that works out for you
Sure.
By the way, Simon, is the Dover in dark oak or redwood? What colour did you use for the cream?
Redwood, and a tan
I had the same issue with Belgravias (and Alden Tassels) because my heel is narrow. Adding a tongue pad makes all the difference for me as they force my food down and back, anchoring the heel in the shoe but leaving sufficient toe space. Just a thought based on similar experience.
Thanks, Justin. I also have the same issue with the Alden tassels, although they are slightly better than Belgravia. I shall try the tongue pad if that would also work for me. Could I ask if you have flat feet (fallen arches)?
Hi Simon-
I have a pair of Belgravias and love them. While the fit is comfrotable, I find that the front of theshoe is narrower on the EGs than other loafers I wear, and my toes can end up a bit carmped by the end of the day (particulatly if it’s hot).
I know you work closely with the brand, and was curious if you’ve had any experience with EG doing minor stretching for tighter spots in the shoe (or generally if they offer this service). I recognize most many cobblers can do this, but I would feel more confident having it done by the shoe maker. Thanks.
I haven’t, sorry Justin, as I haven’t had that issue, but if you ask them let me know how you get on
Morning, Simon.
One question. Do you need in the Belgravias half size down that Picadilly? Thanks.
I want to buy the Belgravias but the size is a problem.
No, same size – it’s the same last?
Yes, is the same last. 184. Thanks.
I would like to know if you have the same size in Belgravia and Picadilly or if you wear 1/2 size down in Belgravia, Thanks so much, Simon.
Sorry, Simon. I had not seen the answer.
Dear Simon, what colour is this exactly? The articles link to dark oak but your pair looks so much lighter? Thank you. Wishing you a great time in Japan.
They’re dark oak, it’s probably just the light – and they’ve changed a little over the years through wear and polish
Hi Simon, your Begravia loafers have aged beautifully. I am curious if you think that Alden tassel loafers are more versatile than the Begravia loafers, since the former’s casual shape allows them to be paired with jeans while the latter’s elegant shape could be too dressy to do so. If you could only pick one between these two in the same skin, which would you pick? Thanks.
If that versatility were a top priority, then perhaps the Alden, yes. They could be a little casual for the smartest of suits though too – few will cover both
Hi Simon, I was wondering if you have EG shoes in their mocca suede? It looks colder brown than their mink suede to me. Do you think it could be useful colour?
Many thanks,
Jack
I don’t, but yes I think it would be
Hello do you also like Johnlobb Lopez?
It’s a very nice loafer – style wise, I generally prefer the Belgravia or Piccadilly at EG, but then the Lopez is a little more of a a more rounded classic penny. I’m also not a huge fan of the oval cut in the strap, though it’s hard to say why. Perhaps it seems like a slightly inelegant shape
Hi Simon,
I’ve found a view expressed in this post about which I would be happy to get your clarificaion, if you don’t mind.
“The footbed bears an impression of my sole; the upper creases where I need it to crease.”
How do you get the upper crease where you need to?
Thanks for your reply. A great post, by the way! Honestly, I don’t know how many times I’ve read it!
John
Thanks John.
You don’t get the upper to crease in a particular place, it just does so when you bend your foot?
Ok! Many thanks!
Hi Simon,
I know this is an old post, but it inspired me to buy a pair of these beautiful shoes. This is my first pair of Edward Greens (for the past decade I’ve almost exclusively worn Aldens), and I wonder if you could share the products you use to care for them, since yours look so good. You mention cream…do you use Edward Green’s “Dark Oak” cream or another product? I plan to purchase a tin of that cream and use it together with Saphir’s “Mirror Gloss” and “Renovateur.” I’ve watched your shoe care videos, which are great. Thanks for your help!
Nice Kevin! I hope you enjoy them.
I tend not to use coloured creams, just because they can change the colour of the shoe so much. I’d use a natural cream from Saphir, and a tan polish or dark brown
You’re wearing these tassel loafers with a pair of selvedge denim. It was my understanding that tassel loafers were a bit more formal on the loafer scale. Is that incorrect? I assumed that a penny loafer was the only loafer you could get away with in terms of jeans and chinos, I guess I’m wrong in that regard right? Also, what do you think of the bit loafer, not from Gucci, but one from Carmina for example? How does that factor in with the other (tassel/penny) loafers? Is it something you like/recommend or has it been tainted by the Gucci association?
On tassels, it’s kind of more complicated than that. A slim, bespoke, leather tassel loafer is very different from a wider, wide-welted, suede one. I’d happily wear Alden tassels with jeans, but these Edward Green are on the border.
A tassel is probably a little smarter than a penny, also, but more significant is the difference in style – that one is just more understated, less of a style itself
Hey Simon,
First off, thanks for your article(s). I’ve been following your videos, your question-and-answer times, etc. for about 9 months now and I’m learning a lot!
The reason I’m writing is because after reading this article I’m seriously considering buying a pair of Paul Stuart by Edward Green Belgravia’s that I found in Miami (I live in Los Angeles) for a fair price, BUT I am hesitant to buy them because of my lack of understanding concerning the entire UK vs US sizing issue AND because I can’t try them on!
Just so you know, I wear a 9D in my Alden Cordovan longwing bluchers…
The EG pair I want is 9.5 D in the UK sizing (I assume it’s UK sizing since that is what the markings inside the shoe say and they are made in the UK).
I know the last is the 184, which Gentlemen’s Footwear said comes with the standard E width…
Here’s my question…and I know this may be asking too much…and forgive me if it seems too confusing and my request too naive…but do you think they could work?
Regardless, I appreciate your work!
Thx!
Hi Tom, lovely to hear from you
I suspect they might be too big I’m afraid, as if they are a UK 9.5, that will be a US 10 or even 10.5. You could check with the shop to be sure that is what they are, but unfortunately it sounds like they won’t work