Introducing: The Permanent Style collection at Fox

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Wednesday, August 14th 2024
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When I visited T&G Caraceni in Rome last year, a particular bolt of vintage cloth caught my eye. It was a brown-and-black houndstooth tweed, mid-weight but densely woven (as a lot of that vintage tweed tends to be). 

Unfortunately only 1.5m of it remained, so it was useless for anything but a waistcoat - but the pattern and colour stayed with me. Eventually, having occasionally put looks together and thought ‘what would be great would be a black-and-brown houndstooth’ I talked to Fox Brothers about reweaving something similar. 

I chose Fox because their tweed was the most similar to that vintage piece I was aware of. It too is denser than some of the more open Harris tweeds, though not as tight as the shooting-suit variety. It also helped that I’d already had two jackets made in the Fox Tweed, so it was a known quantity. 

Fox were keen on the proposal, but also thought it would be nice to do something bigger - maybe come up with three or four creations, plus existing cloths to go with them. There must be other cloths I’d thought about, but couldn’t find elsewhere?

So Lucas and I went down to the mill in Somerset in order to plunder the Fox archive, and discuss ideas with the wonderful design team. 

We came up with two further ideas:

The perfect navy chalk-stripe flannel

This one was kind of funny. Looking through all the Fox bunches, I couldn’t find the navy chalk stripe I’d want to make into a suit (I’ll cover later exactly how I wear it). There was a narrow chalk stripe on a good, dark navy background - and a wide chalk stripe on a lighter, rather bluer ground. 

I wanted the wider stripe on the darker ground. It seemed like the perfect combination to me. Fox were sure they had it somewhere, but it turned out, after a bit of searching, that they didn’t. So we decided that would make a good second collaboration cloth. 

My dark olive flannel

I’ve always liked a green-flannel suit. I actually had one made by Brian Smith at Fox Brothers years ago (quick PS research - it was 2015) made in a vintage piece I found on the shelves. I loved it, particularly with a specific burnt-orange challis tie from Church’s. 

But like a few things made in that era, it didn’t survive my changing physique so I ended up making a sequel with Ollie Cross when he was at Benson & Clegg. (Who’s now set up on his own by the way, under the sobriquet ‘Ollie’s’). The cloth that time was from Caccioppoli, because Fox didn’t have a dark olive. 

The suit was and is great, but really I would have preferred Fox because I like the set and finish of their flannel (pretty much all my other flannels are Fox). So it made sense that our third cloth would be that - a classic Fox flannel in a lovely muddy green (above). 

The plan is that we will have these fabrics made up into jackets or suits over the next few months, to demonstrate how they look and feel. This will also give me more space to go into why I like them.  

The tweed has already been made by Bryceland’s using their made-to-measure system with WW Chan. That’s what is shown above and below in this article, but I will also review it separately as I think their MTM option is worth covering in detail. 

The chalk stripe will be made up into a double-breasted suit by Ciardi and also covered separately (focusing on the style of a navy chalk stripe more than anything else). The green flannel, meanwhile, will be made up by The Anthology for Manish, and reviewed by him. 

All three cloths are available to buy through Fox, on a dedicated page of their site. You have to buy through them, not us, on this one. 

In the name of making it a bigger collaboration, you will also find on that page a list of my favourite other Fox cloths - most of which have been featured on PS in the past. So it includes my favourite grey flannels, the charbrown I wear a lot, my other Fox tweeds, and two overcoatings (one covered in the past, another one hopefully in the future). 

Readers often ask for flannels and overcoat materials in particular that I’d recommend. As far as Fox is concerned, there is now one dedicated place to point them to. 

Another useful piece of logistics is that swatches of all three materials will be available at The Valet in London for readers to go and see, if they want. This made sense given The Valet are now distributing all the other collaboration cloths we do

As soon as they’re back from their summer hols, Lafayette Saltiel in Paris will also have swatches available in Paris, as will several tailors. 

And you can always order a sample directly if you want, as you can with any of the fabrics Fox sell online. 

Any questions, please let me know. In terms of the colours, by the way, the images above are both from Fox in their studio and us on the street. I'd say both are a pretty good reflection of the colour, but seen inside and out. 

Here are the technical details on the cloths: 

  • Houndstooth Tweed:
    • Code A3344/11
    • BCC9 quality
    • 480/510g, 16/17oz
    • 100% British wool
    • £230 a metre
  • Chalk stripe flannel:
    • Code A1797/54
    • CBT5 quality
    • 370/400g, 13/14oz
    • 100% superfine merino wool
    • £230 a metre
  • Olive flannel:
    • Code A3174/1111
    • CBT5 quality
    • 370/400g, 13/14oz
    • 100% superfine merino wool
    • £230 a metre

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Vik

Love the olive and the chalk stripe. A quick question on wearability? I don’t see anywhere near as many people either wearing or ordering chalk stripe anymore. Do you think itrd is heading towa obsolescence?

Andrew B

Hi Simon. I like the look of both flannels and am currently having T&G Caraceni make me a DB suit in a navy wide chalk stripe from Fox’s slightly heavier Heritage Flannel Bunch. I think the navy may not be a dark as the one you’ve done, though I couldn’t check as I no longer find Heritage Flannel on their website.

I have been looking for an olive flannel for some time, and I find it too bad you didn’t have it done in the Heritage Flannel weight. I have always preferred Heritage Flannel’s drier and more pressed finish to their Classic Flannel bunch, which I find a bit too spongy. I don’t mind the extra weight of Heritage Flannel, though I do understand that at 450 grams or so it would have been somewhat of a niche cloth.

All the best
Andrew

Andrew B

For sure it would be less interesting to many readers, as the Heritage is probably not wearable by a pretty big percentage of your readership.

Do you know if it is no longer on the website because Fox stopped producing that bunch? Given how niche it is I was afraid they would do so, and bought up several of my favorite cuts over the last few years in case they stopped producing it.

Shaoul

As a fan of heavier flannels I share your frustration with the Fox website Andrew. However, if you ask your tailor they can inquire with the local Fox representative. In my experience Fox still has heavier bolts- but they will provide fabric only upon request.

Vik

Thank you. I have several including a splendid A&S that was my fathers!

Johannes

Lovely!
I have been looking for a dark olive flannel or tweed for a good while now.
Most olives aren’t muddy enough and to green for lack of a better term.

Sample ordered and looking forward to checking this one out.
Hopefully it is close to Colhays Dark Olive Cashmere colour.

Jack

Hi Simon, these cloths are as great as I expected! I’ve been struggling to find a muted and cool-toned olive flannel for the past few years, but I can finally get it commissioned for this winter. Also, I have a question about the houndstooth tweed. It seems to have a similar weight to the PS Harris Tweed—do you think it can be worn in the same season, or will it feel a bit warmer or cooler?

Many thanks,
Jack

Jack

I see, I actually had a chance to look at the new launched cloths in The Valet yesterday and I noticed that the green flannel is much less hairy than the navy chalk stripe fabric, almost like the difference between worsted and woolen flannel. Could you possibly explain why there’s a difference between the two?

Nick

Hi Simon, really nice! Looking at the other cloths you have selected, how would you have the soft grey made up? Also, what would you combine it with?

Johannes

Also having Massura make me a Raglan in this cloth corrently. Should we good 🙂

Nick

Residing in Sydney as I do, I really need to stop commissioning tweed jackets – but I love that houndstooth so much! Sigh!

Robin

Beautiful cloths .
Always respect what you sell , Simon , and now with you partnering with Fox it’s a double plus .

Really looking forward to how you wear the chalk stripe. Wonder if you’ll make use of it as a separate.

pete

hi simon, when is the review of the brycelands ww chan m2m going to be published?
regarding the black brown houndstooth, is it thick? does it require the jacket to be cut bigger to accommodate the thickness?

Juan

Beautiful cloths, Simon! I have a question regarding pricing of these pieces, particularly when compared to the PS Harris or Shetland Tweed, or the new lambswool plaid. The Fox cloths are over twice the price per Metre for what, to an untrained eye, seem to be similar products in terms of raw materials, weight of the finished cloth and country of production. What, in your view, is the reason for such a significant price difference? Thanks in advance for your input.

John

Hi Simon, a lovely initiative! Can i ask a few question about the houndstooth?
1) Would you consider it a ‘cold’ fabric, given the black and brown?
2) How well would it go with jeans?
3) Is it as casual/versatile as the grey herringbone you often wear? I assume the houndstooth is a touch smarter, so the herringbone would be better for jeans? Obviously the houndstooth could go with grey flannels?
Thanks!
John

Johannes

One more thing:
Really glad to see the “more unique cloth” suggestion from the reader survey being done so quickly ( I realise it had nothing to do with my suggestion there, but still).

Will you also be selling the new Lambswool Herringbone Coating as a cloth in the shop or only the new Raglans?

Thank you!

Johannes

Edouard

Congratulations Simon. A nice milestone.

Andrew Poupart

As a couple of other commenters also wrote, I’ve been looking for a nice olive flannel for a while, more or less since Fox did that Palazzi flannel a few years ago. So, I picked up a few meters. Don’t know if I’ll be able to get it made up in time for January Pitti, but perhaps.
I also enjoyed the description of you as having a “reputable reputation”. I suppose that’s the best kind to have, after all!

Andrew Poupart

I received it a week or so ago and it is already on its way to my tailor. So, the suit ought to be ready for Pitti. It’s a lovely flannel and an excellent color. I’m looking forward to the suit.

Alexander

Ok. You need to stop (I don’t mean that). You’re make too many good and tempting fabric choices.

All of these are lovely. The navy pin stripe just gives so many ideas for a good business suit (at least out here in California).

On the houndstooth, I know the inclusion of black and the overall tone feel a bit more muted and formal, but would it be a mistake to think of this as a fabric that could be versatile enough to wear with jeans and with trousers and a tie? Admittedly, the tie options may be somewhat narrow.
Finally, if one were the type to enjoy double breasted jackets with soft shoulders (maybe even patch pockets) and likely to wear it open, on occasion (chalk it up to my California eccentricities), would the houndstooth be a good option?

Alexander

I suppose you’d shy away from the DB because it simply narrows the use, by adding a bit of formality (even if done with soft shoulders and patch pockets). In other words, although it can be a rathe striking, or fashionable look, it means a bit less versatility with jeans, and slightly more “formal” looks with ties, are sill narrow. Thus, one has only taken away options?

Is there any fabric you would recommend as a “more casual” DB (say soft shoulders and a 4×1)? I guess my instinct is maybe the PS Shetland Tweed or the new Green Flannel (either would still be less “versatile” than a single breasted version, but with these fabrics it may be a bit more marginal).

Alexander

Thanks Simon. That actually does seem like a wonderful option in that way. I meant to ask if there were any of the PS fabrics you thought might work in that way? Totally fine if the answer is none of them would really quite work.

Alexander

I appreciate that response. I suppose your general advice of proceed with caution and know that choosing a versatile fabric in an unusual design will necessarily limit the use of the garment remains in tact here (I was re-reading your “if you only had five jackets” post)
Admittedly, I have found that I am more drawn to DBs, they just tend to fit my personality and general style more. However, I try to temper myself by asking, or thinking about, what thoughtful individuals would advise (probably why DBs are around 30% of my suit and jacket wardrobe).
Perhaps there’s a post to be written about fabric or design choices for a more “casual” DB (might be a bit niche).
Well, you’ve convinced me that the wiser choice is a SB in the houndstooth should I purchase a length. Perhaps a wiser choice to do a DB with the PS Shetland given I already have a similarly colored SB jacket, but even then the SB houndstooth just seems so lovely. Thanks for entertaining my questions and thoughts 🙂

John

Hi Simon,
Lovely cloths – congratulations on the collaboration. To check, do you think that the houndstooth would work as a cloth for the brown jacket you suggest in your complete capsule wardrobe?
Best,
John

Craig

I really like the houndstooth tweed. That pattern fits what I usually wear.
Are these going to be limited releases? Or can I expect them to be available for some time?

CK

Really beautiful cloth, Simon.

I just wanted to say, the outfit with the Alden color 8 loafers and black denim, man, that’s a really beautiful mixture of texture and colour. The whole outfit, including the bag, I just love it!

Carl

Great ! I like all three and are thinking about doing a tweed jacket. I guess that all tailors that uses Fox as a supplier can order this cloth?
I have a navy chalk stripe with Minnis cloth that is very similar but that is not something I would buy.
I am not sure about the olive flannel. I love olive linen trousers and chinos but a bit skeptical about olive wool. I have the same feeling about odd trousers in blue and navy (except jeans). Navy is perfect in suits but I rarely used the blue chinos I once owned.

Robin

“The suit was and is great, but really I would have preferred Fox because I like the set and finish of their flannel (pretty much all my other flannels are Fox)”
– just interested as to what exactly it is about Fox flannel that you like. What qualities/characteristics of the set/finish?

Filip

Beautiful work! The olive flannel looks wonderful.

William

Those are really amazing fabrics, congratulations! If I purchase through a tailor, would it be possible to get them at a lower price?

Mr Spears

These are fantastic, Simon. The dark brown houndstooth tweed in particular is something I’ve been looking for but couldn’t find from any mill.

I hope you do something with Fox for warmer weather also!

Lindsay McKee

Super cloths and Fox cloth is superb anyway.

David

Hi Simon,
I’ve heard some pretty negative things about Fox, particularly their flannels, and from some knowledgeable people in the industry at that. The main gripe being something about them using shorter fibers, if I recall correctly. I’ve only had one piece made of Fox flannel and although the fabric was quite heavy at around 20 oz, it indeed wore thin after only a couple of years.
I’m aware this is somewhat anecdotal, but I was wondering what you had to say about that. Also, have other readers had a similar experience?

Andrew B

I must admit that part of my hesitation on the Classic Flannels bunch is for exactly the same reason. My previous tailor Nicoletta Caraceni really didn’t like that bunch and didn’t recommend it to her clients. She described it as empty, I called it spongy in my comment above. I must admit though I’ve never tried it because I was/am hesitant to try anything that my tailor so strongly disliked.

For solid colors I always used Hardy Minnis 450gr and find it to be great quality and it holds its shape well. It also wears a little less warm that Fox Heritage as it has a slightly less woolly hand.

I also have a suit made up from Harrison’s Archive Flannels, which is made by Fox to their Heritage Flannel specification, and really like that.

Andrew B

Yeah I think it was more personal preference than anything relating to quality. It seems to me flannels can be divided into those that have a drier hand and are most pressed (the best example is probably Hardy Minis) and those that are a softer (Fox Classic is the best example I can think of). I find people tend to prefer one or the other, a bit like Irish vs Italian linen, and not cross over too much.

Alexander

I never understood why Mr. Panico used the VBC flannel for that suit. I vividly remember how he spoke about lighter cloths in the movie “o mast”. That they were not for him.

Andrew B

Yes you’re right, I forgot about those ones as I haven’t tried them.

In response to DS’s question: I can’t personally tell the difference by looking. Maybe others can but I’m not so expert. I have to touch them. The flannels I have described as drier aren’t really more like worsteds, rather they often feel a bit more woolly and more compact to the touch.

The ones I described as softer tend can tend to feel a bit more like cashmere, and probably feel a bit more luxurious in your hand. Think of a cashmere jacketing or maybe a cashmere blanket. Very soft and warm, but maybe not as dense.

Maybe Simon can explain this better than I have.

DS

Hi Andrew.
Seems you have mentioned this concept of dry vs spongy flannels before. How do they differ in their appearance? Do the drier ones lean more towards worsted wool and because of that look more formal as they hold their shape better? Are the spongier ones more suitable for wearing with knitwear underneath?
I am currently having a charcoal birdseye suit made from the classic flannel bunch which I plan to use for business, nights out and also less formal daywear.
Maybe in the future I might want a mid grey flannel suit which should be more robust and no, I‘m not worried about warmth so maybe you can recommend something there.
Thanks and regards
DS

Andrew B

Hi DS

I replied to your question but it somehow ended up above yours in the string.

For mid grey, Harry Minis has three or fours greys starting from a light grey all the way to charcoal. They send free samples so you can see and feel them before you buy. I like them because they are nice and mottled, which I think adds a lot of the charm of flannel.

510032 is probably the closest to mid grey. I have a cut of my own at home but I can’t look at the moment to confirm.

https://www.hfwltd.com/collection/47

If you ever make it to Milan, the Vecchio Drappiere also had some old stock of Fox Heritage in mid grey as well. It is a great shop and the owners are very nice but you will certainly pay for it as Vecchio Drappiere’s prices are rather high.

AKG

Just want to chime in with my 2 cents, I have a trouser in exact Hardy Minnis mid-grey fabric mentioned by Andrew B in his comments and it is actually very nice. 😊

Has anybody got any experience of the heavier flannel from Holland Sherry. It is 17/18 oz per their website.
https://apparel.hollandandsherry.com/en/fabric/use/suits/8422203-classic-woollen-flannel-charcoal-solid

Thanks in advance

DS

Thanks for the replies, Andrew.
That cashmere analogy is very insightful and makes me aspire the drier and heavier ones even more.
Regarding my wardrobe development, Simon, what would be your recommendation for a next suit? I *can* wear suits and ties to work but don‘t want to look too much like serious business. So far I have light grey windowpane 260 gr, charcoal fresco double breasted, hazel brown crispaire, charcoal 280 gr, charcoal birdseye classic flannel. Next one should be for Winter.

Andrew B

I got an email today from fox that they have introduced a new bunch called Authentic Flannel, weighing 530 grams. I suppose this replaces Heritage. Right now it comes in three shades of grey that look good. Might be worth having a look at this too.

eric-c

> “When I visited T&G Caracani in Rome last year …”
Is that T&G Caraceni — with an “e”?

Colin

Hey Simon, I think there’s a bug on the site — the last two posts (this and bespoke pocket one) are showing that there are 0 comments for me, though based on the latest comments section, it appears there are comments on these posts.

Joon

Very very tempting. I’ve been meaning to get a chalk stripe made, but need something for warmer climates. Is there a chalk stripe you like for summer? Leaning towards a brown or even tan chalk stripe.

Joon

Thanks for that Simon. Did you mean this one? https://www.permanentstyle.com/2019/05/kathryn-sargent-chalk-stripe-suit-style-breakdown.html

I take your point about flannel being more natural. It’ll restrict the amount of potential wear I can get out of it, though. Planning on an Assisi commission soon and must decide shortly, argh!

W

I was curious about the worsted flannel from the Fox x PS collection – does it differ from other mills? I remember from your earlier posts that you tend to prefer woollen flannels over the worsted variety. In your opinion, do you think the worsted flannel would work well for trousers?

Joe

I followed your link to the 2015 green flannel suit (lovely color) and noticed the turn back cuffs on it. I don’t recall seeing this detail too often on suit jackets you’ve written about here, or maybe I’ve missed it. I’m curious, given that you were not doing this full time then, did that type of detail, along with the patch pockets pointing in a casual direction, limit how much use you got out of it? When your changing physique caused you to have another made, did you still opt for these unique type of details? Now that you’re writing full time in this space, do you see yourself having more jackets with unique or rare details like that?

Jerry Parkhurst

After enjoying your clothing adventures for some time I thing it would be nice for you to include the retail price on clothing you have made. Thank you

Jerry Parkhurst

Simom,appreciate the reply. I believe adding the price of the garment adds credibility and clarity for understanding the wonderful process you explore in custom tailoring.

Will

Approximately what quantity of cloth would one need for a single breasted blazer?

Will

thanks!

Nick

Hi Simon,
I was wondering if you ever though of bringing back the ciardi gunclub check and/or the cotton you used for your caraceni db?
Also, are shoe colabs something you have considered?
Best,
Nick

Nick

The shoe idea really came seeing the Alden loafers in the images here. I really, really love the style of the full strap and the colour 8 is fantastic, however I find the last uncomfortable (as, I seem to remember, do you) so an idea i would suggest would be to make it on a more comfortable last. Alternatively, if you have experimented with widths on that shoe would be keen to hear any recommendations!

Martins

I think you can sort of say colour 8 full strap is a hole. Where can you buy them in London (UK?) with a possibility of either trying on or no risk of paying taxes 3x if you need to return and exchange?

Martins

Thank you!

Andrew

Hi Simon, great clothes! The houndstooth begs to be worn with black trousers, as does a recent mid brown/taupe jacket I just had done. Similar to how Saman or Anthology would do. Trouble is, not having done straight black trousers in my adult life- I’m having trouble getting past the waiter or funeral director look of flat black. While I understand a more adventurous material over worsted wool would help resolve this, I need them to be on the more formal side for work- which leaves out some great options like black jeans, corduroy. Also, I would like them to be more versatile seasonally speaking than linen or flannel. Anything I’m missing that you’d suggest? I guess a dark charcoal would be the next best color wise, but since I have a fairly dark “mid grey” trouser I’d prefer not that. Thanks

Jan

Brilliant! The tweed is exactly what I want for a fall / winter jacket – ordered!

Bryan

Where is that denim shirt from? Thanks.

Peter

Simon when Fox describe a fabric as being 13/14oz what does that mean exactly?

Dario

This is very interesting… so an 8oz Italian fabric would be comparable in weight with a 12oz from a British mill?
I just assumed the weight was per square meter.

Dario

Thank you very much Simon!

James Fettiplace

Thanks Simon – really interesting on how English and Italian mills use a different sized area to establish weight. Does that mean they aren’t like for like (which I had assumed they were) and you would need to inflate the Italian weights (by~1.5x) if you are used to English cloth weight?
I suppose ultimately with experience you can decipher the ‘right’ weight just by handling the swatches/cloth.

Liam

Hello Simon
You’ve created some beautiful tweed fabrics, but there’s something I’ve always wondered. Why do the British, almost obsessively, one might say, have such a deep love for tweed? Historically, tweed was designed as an outdoor fabric, and while those who live or spend a lot of time outdoors might still find it incredibly useful, can tweed really be considered practical in the modern, well-heated indoor environment of a city like London? Do you often find yourself wearing such heavy tweed while working indoors or when going out for dinner?
Sorry if my question came across as critical of your tweed. That was not my intention at all, and I hope you understand.
Best,
Liam

Charles S

Hi Simon,

The brown houndstooth looks superb. I see your reply to another commenter affirming it would work as your capsule wardrobe “Dark-brown wool or tweed single-breasted jacket”. To add to that conversation, I like the side-by-side photo of you wearing different trousers with your brown Harris Tweed sport coat. Do you think the brown houndstooth can be paired with as many trousers, particularly gray flannels? Based on the photos, I’m not sure if it’s too dark to pair with gray flannel trousers like the middle photo of you with the Harris Tweed. I generally avoid super dark outfits, if that helps. Thanks!