Recently a few readers have asked about my dislike of quarter-zip (and half-zip) sweaters. This is probably, at least in part, because they've become so popular – both as a finance-office staple and as fashion.
In the same way as navy chinos, my objection to quarter zips is narrower than people often remember. The issue is also partly a result of that popularity (again like navy chinos). Men think they're the answer to everything because they go with everything; but they're not, because they don't. Just with some things.
The idea is that a quarter zip is great because it can be worn with a shirt, but also with a T-shirt. Thus you can wear the same thing at work and at the weekend, and not have to think about it.
Unfortunately, most of the time a quarter zip doesn't look great with a shirt. The sharp collar of the shirt points downwards, diagonally towards the arms, and the soft collar of the knit points upwards, diagonally towards the ears. The two are always going to butt against each other, and not sit together effectively or elegantly.
The quarter-zip sweater was originally a piece of sportswear, and it works best today over something like a T-shirt, with free rein to be zipped or unzipped. In that position it is both functional and flattering – framing the face nicely when it is open, and having an effect akin to a roll neck when zipped up under an overcoat.
A collared shirt has other knitwear that’s designed to work with it – a crewneck or a V-neck – and generally they sit much better with the collar.
The only issue with a crewneck or V-neck is that it’s harder to wear with a T-shirt – a topic it’s probably worth doing a separate article on at some point. And, a little depressingly, sometimes people say they’re too much fuss.
This came up recently in another article, where a reader was saying a crewneck is too hard to take on and off in the office, and so he wears a gilet.
Now, I get that some people are working very hard, are very tired, and clothing is nowhere near the top of their priority list. But it seems a little odd to take the time to read a niche blog about menswear, yet feel that taking off a crewneck is too much of a faff.
There’s perhaps another article here at some point – taking the time to enjoy, experience and maintain good clothing, in proportion to the time shopping for it. It’s something I’m certainly guilty of – I should spend more time having my clothes altered and cleaned, and in fact polishing my shoes, and less time browsing the internet in search of something new.
But I digress. I was saying, quarter zips can be great but they should be thought of primarily as sportswear. Now here come the caveats.
First, some shirt collars work better than others. A soft button-down oxford will roll outwards more with the neck of a quarter zip, and be a better partner than a stiff dress shirt. But still, I usually prefer a crewneck or a V-neck.
Second, sometimes the point of wearing a quarter zip with tailoring is the contrast with a sports wear. This is common in Ivy clothing. But, the point is that clash of ideas. If a clash is not what you’re going for, don’t wear it.
Third, wearing a quarter zip with a tie is in some ways better, because the shirt collar is tied down and flatter. It's how they were worn originally, as ski wear and then for sports like golf. But still, these are different times and I'd prefer a V-neck.
Modern office uniforms are a little trickier than the suits and ties we had in the past, but not that hard.
Wear a soft-collared shirt, a nice crewneck sweater, a pair of chinos or tailored trousers, and a loafer/boot/derby. Just like a suit and tie, focus on good quality and a small number of pieces that go together. Top it off with a lightweight coat or jacket, and a heavier one. Sprinkle with accessories for interest.
A quarter zip is a great thing for the weekend, over a T-shirt, even if I personally wear collared knits like the Cashmere Rugby. And indeed prefer half zips to quarters - the latter can seem a little like V-necks that have all become too shallow, at least the shorter ones.
Lastly, there's a current trend for extra-tall zipped collars, which fold down over the shoulders. I’ve tried this (above), and eventually found it too annoying that it doesn't actually zip up, at least comfortably. There’s lots we can take from women’s fashions when it comes to half zips (see Chanel, below) but I don’t think that’s one of them.
This is again a very good and balanced take Simon! As I had previously commented elsewhere, I really like wearing quarter zips as sportswear in spring. I wear them in the same way that I would wear my cashmere rugby on colder days (just with jeans and a white T-shirt). I like the Collan model from 18 East and have it in navy and brown (both size Medium). In fact, I am about to pick up my son in an outfit that is very similar to the Chanel model pictured above (washed blue jeans, Anglo boat shoes, white T-shirt and the brown Collan sweater).
Hi Simon, do you put polo collars with buttons in the same category.
Do be honest, I have a hard time wearing fine polo-collars in wool / cashmere knitwear because they do not sit well under a jacket. By contrast, thick polo-collars in wool / cashmere look good by themselves.
No I’d say they’re rather different Markus. I think it’s clearer with them that they don’t work so well with shirts, and the issue of not working so well under a jacket is not a style one but a functional/engineering one. Something we’ve talked about with the Dartmoor, Exmoor etc
I politely disagree. Luca Faloni styles wool polos with shirts and I personally like the look (although it may be too “busy” for some). I think it works better with chunkier polos like those from Sunspel.
Sorry for the double comment, but I forgot to mention that I also really like the Wythe Aertex half zips for this kind of look (it’s just too cold for them today). I have the “unbleached” colour and it’s perfect with washed blue jeans…! The half zip also allows for a bit of playfulness when it gets really hot (I would recommend people to size up here, as the style looks best when it’s roomier and and that also allows for more airflow).
Thanks Liam, that’s very helpful. How have you found the quality on those? I’ve found the Wythe pieces a little hit and miss quality-wise
Yes I know what you mean. I have a Wythe flannel (Medium), Madras (Medium), and Aertex (Large). The important thing to keep in mind is that the Wythe products are also priced at a level that is significantly below some other products featured here…
I’ve only recently gotten my Airtex and have worn and washed it twice so far. The quality looks good . But the real selling point is the fabric – the texture is nice and “slubby” and the unbleached colour is super versatile. I‘s definitely a very cool and unique product.
I also find the combination of the deep zip and the pockets really nice. The style just works… I wore it recently and my wife (who is not super into these things) said something along the lines of “now *this* is a really cool shirt!”.
The quality is certainly not at the level of a brand like LEJ (I also own a CUTTS and a officer shirt and they are definitely on another level). But I think the quality looks good enough for the style. We’ll have to see how it holds up…
I would *definitely* size up though. The fit seems similar to the flannels and I find those a bit short in the body and narrow in the shoulders even on myself (I am 180cm and about 72kg with a 38/39” chest). The Airtex in Large is definitely roomy on me but that’s how I wanted it. I think a Large would be perfect for you.
Thanks Liam. Yes I often like the styles but would love something at a slightly higher quality level. Great for others at that lower level though, and the inconsistency has to be seen as part of that
Yes quality and quality control cost a lot of money, so there is a clear trade-off here for consumers when it comes to quality vs. price.
If you like the style of the Aertex half-zip, I would personally try it and see for yourself. It looks much better in person than it does on the website (as I mentioned, the fabric is the real selling point) and the quality seems good from what I can tell. The comparison with LEJ is maybe a bit unfair, as LEJ is the very best on the RTW market. Even a brand like De Bonne Facture is clearly not at that level (but again significantly cheaper…)
Of course, ultimately the proof is in how the shirt will look two years down the line. But it’s the kind of shirt that will also look okay with some wear and tear (as long as it does not start falling apart). Wythe suggests to wear it around a campfire and that actually does not seem far-fetched at all…
Thanks Liam
Hi Simon. I’ve never considered half zips before but those Chanel pictures are cool. Who makes good ones in your view? Rather than quarter zips, I tend to prefer a rugby like yours or those made by Colhays.
Good question, I didn’t even consider that for this piece and I don’t own many. I have a great one from Johnstons but it’s not currently available. Most are quite generic – short zip, thinnish material and make. The LP ones like the Roadster are great, but of course very expensive
I’m a fellow Wythe Aertex owner after purchasing two last summer – one in dusty violet, the other apricot, I agree that the fabric is excellent – perfect for wearing over an undershirt, easy to look after and pieces that will often yield a compliment or two when paired with some MiUSA 501s. The hardwear used is also excellent (the zip) – this matters a lot when so much about how the shirt can be worn depends on its functionality. My only complaint is that this season no international buyers picked up the sage colour for sale, meaning that it will stay firmly out of reach given the additional costs of importing post tariffs. I can hope!
Yes the Sage colour looks great. I am also tempted to get a second one at some point…
Thank you for making me aware of this brand! They have some lovely pieces.
So true. I own a Loro Piana cable-knitted cashmere half-zip (I think the model is called Roadster). I bought it at a sale when it was just very expensive and not ridiculously so. It is perfect at the cabin in the Swedish mountains but I have never really liked it with something smarter than jeans. I also agree with you that navy chinos is an odd bird. It is like some kind of compromise that pleases nobody.
I second the remark on navy chinos. They’re a very poor cousin to ecru, beige and khaki and definitely do not “go with everything”. I’d say nothing can claim to go with everything, even black or white.
I’m going to weigh in with some love for navy chinos. No, they aren’t as versatile as beige, ecru, or khaki but, like olive, they’re a useful alternative when paired appropriately. Navy chinos with a white OCBD and a beige or oatmeal crewneck, V-neck, or jacket for example.
Maybe this is a UK vs US cultural thing but a gilet isn’t something I would consider office appropriate. It comes across as a bit too “Office Space” and cartoonish.
Is the navy taken from jeans for which chino substituted? Thus instead of blue jeans, navy chinos?
I tend to wear chinos in situations that call for something smarter than jeans, so not a direct substitution, but a lot of the same criteria would apply in terms of matching shirts, etc.
That’s the motive behind the chinos – smarter than jeans although one sees Simon likes that denim cloth. Strange no denim chinos?!
Denim chinos, ie trousers cut in a light denim material do exist, but are much more of a niche look
Navy embroidered chinos look cool when they fade. They could be considered the exception to the rule. The main issue with navy chinos is that petrol blue chinos just look better for casual wear. The navy chino isn’t awful, its just that the ROI on them becomes lower and lower the more people get into clothes. e.g. indigo jeans fade better and with more character, khaki chinos play nicer with more colours, grey flannels are softer and more sartorial. The navy chino makes more sense when a persons “sartorial map” has been less uncovered so to speak. That’s probably the best way to think of them.
I agree with a lot of this but slightly disagree with navy chinos being an “entry level” item. I think they are better thought of as a fairly advanced item that fits a very particular niche very well (I would always go for dark indigo jeans at the entry level).
I have quite an expansive wardrobe but still wear navy chinos quite a bit because they suit the dark tonal blue/black looks that I like and also work surprisingly well with olive or brown sportcoats.
But it’s all about the details with navy chinos… Personally I would get either the Rubato french pocket (I own them and they are amazing if the leg line suits you, but probably size up) or the De Bonne Facture balloon trousers in the heavy cotton drill for something more casual (I own them in brown and love them).
Since the pandemic we’ve seen a run of office‑friendly pieces – the gilet, the overshirt and now the quarter‑zip – go from clever little updates to everywhere‑you-look basics in record time. Each began as a neat, niche solution for modern workwear and, once everyone picked it up, quickly felt overdone and dated. Which quiet staple will be next to slide from stylish to tired (temporary style)?
Great observation
Hi Simon
A great summary and I personally agree with all your points. I tend to wear quarter zips either under a Belstaff or similar. If zipped up it works as a turtleneck and can be unzipped if I get hot, particularly when going from outside to inside.
Hundred percent agree on spending more time looking after things rather searching for new, but neither do !
Lol – “ But it seems a little odd to take the time to read a niche blog about menswear, yet feel that taking off a crewneck is too much of a faff. ” talk about a first world tech bro problem! All the best.
Good article and I agree with everything. Another point about quarter-zips surprisingly omitted here is the zipper itself. One reason I love knitwear is its cozy, traditional charm. On the “flash-fuddy” spectrum, knitwear is almost always on the fuddy end (at least the best kinds are–this is why they work so well paired with flashier items like denim or leather jackets, as brands like Colhays demonstrate). The zipper’s shiny, metal, technical, 20th-century nature kills its old-world charm–it’s almost the antithesis of what I look for in a great sweater. This is precisely why the cardigan is a better substitute for those who don’t want to feel “trapped” in a crewneck or v-neck (though I agree with the point here that crewnecks and v-necks are the best forms of knitwear).
Fully agree – the cold metal teeth of zippers are at odds with the soft coziness of a sweater.
I also agree. Discordant juxtaposition. Buttons work much better both conceptually and visually. Zippers are best when hidden or downplayed. (Although the current Schiaparelli exhibition at the V&A shows a few dresses by the designer using the then-novel zipper as ornament with surprising success.)
Yes! Zippers are irritating and unnecessary. I suppose they’re pretty useful for zipping up a tent or parka. But on a boot or a sweater or a pair of trousers or anything that’s not a technical garment, get ’em outta here. We’re not babies in footie pajamas; we’ve got buttons for this sort of thing, and they work very well.
As is almost always the case, the women’s looks are the most stylish of all, and the ones from which I would draw the most inspiration.
Indeed Jeldrik. I’d say the same – the caveat being that I would never take a lot from it, eg not the tucked-in knit or the jean cut necessarily, I would be inspired by the colours, the deep zip, the relaxed vibe
“Deep” in the sense of longer i.e. “half” zip?
Yes
I particularly enjoy topical pieces such as this one, so, thanks!
I totally agree with Simon’s views on this having ‘graduated’ from this trend as I became more interested in menswear, style and appearance more generally. I reflect back on what made me perceive this to be a good look previously, for which the only answer I can arrive at is because that’s what everybody else is/was wearing in the office and so unknowingly became subtly influenced. It becomes a uniform from which familiarity, comfort and safety are found. Which then comes back to the many articles Simon has written on dressing for the (or your) office and wishing to differentiate without alienating oneself. I do hope the menswear afficionados of this world continue to fly the flag in the hope that they too might unknowingly influence those around them.
I for one would like to see an article on the subject of T Shirt as an underlayer. I find them often to be problematic under a crewneck; slightly easier under a shirt when appropriate. With a crewneck they seem to slip into a kind of “neither out nor in” position.
Yes the hard one is with a crewneck, as it very much depends on the neckline of the two. Easier with most other styles
Dear Simon
If I correctly understand your consideration, you present the combination of crewneck with t-shirt depending on necklines. Your reflection on advantages and disadvantages of quarter-zip and half-zip (full-zip is not considered unless cardigan widened from buttoned to include zip) fits in my limited budget which presents decision:
either zip or no zip i.e. crew- or v-neck?
My zip-friend considers zip better than no-zip crew- and V-nack because of flexibility to need if too cold or too warm, but zip is innovation which may not enthuse those who didn’t invent and apply it?
I am so happy to see the inclusion of Bhavita Mandava in the examples you have given. She’s such a nice person and has a very cool story, it’s cool to see her represented in the menswear blog I read on a weekly basis.
I agree that quarter/half zips don’t really work with tailoring. I have 1 I like which is the Colhay Alpine one, I believe the one you are wearing in the 3rd to last picture. That one is oversized and feels cool to me, I like wearing it and it feels distinctive enough for me to not feel like a finance bro.
A
Cannot agree more with quarter zips: I bought a beautiful navy quarter zip in cashmere 5 years ago and… nearly never wear it! But navy chinos have become my preferred piece when travelling, especially with a mix of professional and casual meetings. Recently I was able to travel 10 days to the US and Canada with just a carry-on luggage, and with just navy chinos and raw denim trousers, a light navy cardigan and a navy crew neck, 5 shirts, 5 T-shirts, a pair of black loafers and a pair of white Common Project. I just took a blue safari jacket, which worked perfectly to dress up or down depending on the occasion. Navy chinos are the most versatile trousers to be able to dress up or down, but I never wear them with a classic jacket… only with a Teba, a safari jacket or a Arnys Forestiere… I would never wear trousers of a navy suit without the jacket!
I must admit that I wear a quarter zip when the collar shirt is deeply worn.
We often talk about associations. To me a quarter zip is linked to ”finance bros” almost as much as the puffer vest. I can see though how it can work well with a t-shirt.
Hi Simon, please will you elaborate on the soft-collared shirt recommendation? Is this about fused and unfused collars or pique cotton polos and button downs? Why is a soft-collar important in this context?
It’s about anything that makes the shirt collar softer, so that can mean a lighter lining, an unfused rather than fused lining, or a softer material. Generally oxfords are softer, and more so if they’re coarser. Being a button down helps too
If I may respectfully challenge the point raised about taking crewnecks off and on in the office (I remember the comment and your reaction Simon!) – the issue in my mind is not necessarily the convenience (the effort of moving hands/arms around isn’t that different for removing a buttoned gilet vs removing a crewneck, for example) but more the impact to the rest of one’s appearance, especially hair.
I don’t think there is an especially foolproof way take a crewneck off without dishevelling one’s hair. Maybe stretching it aggressively, but who wants to do that to a lovely Dartmoor/Finest Crewneck?
For many/most readers, their hair/grooming forms part of their appearance and while as I’ve got older, I do care a little less (I’ll take the accidental sprezzatura) about a little bit of mess, I can see this as a legitimate reason.
I can see what you mean Amrit, and perhaps given I haven’t had hair for a long time I don’t know the issue. But people have been taking sweaters off over their hair for a long time?
Absolutely (as long as humans have had hair and sweaters :)), but as you’ve written about, things have changed in terms of what clothing is acceptable in which environments; a sweater in many workplaces wouldn’t have been acceptable in the past, and now it is; for some people with heavily styled haircuts they didn’t have this issue with a suit jacket which is easy to slip on and off and now they would with a sweater. I definitely notice the impact of taking off and putting on a sweater when my hair is longer.
Maybe just me…
Thanks for this article, Simon, I myself was one of those who had asked for it, and you certainly delivered. I feel like I have a much better grasp of your objections now, and I’ll take it into account and have a critical look at how my favorite quarter zip really looks when paired with a collared shirt. I’ll try it out with softer and smaller collars and with an OCBD just to make sure, but I don’t think I’ll be able to look at it the same way after reading this very well thought-out and reasoned piece.
Good to read this as quarter zips seem ubiquitous and yet I don’t feel comfortable with them for the reasons you make so well.
I do look forward to the T-shirt / crew neck article. I see men of my age and personally I think doesn’t flatter having nothing around an ageing neck line. Looks great on a younger , athletic figure but generally not good on most. Interesting to get your take on this
Thanks Glenn. There is this piece on heights of necklines which is related
Ciao Simon,
interesting as always. So many aspects and details to consider for such simple , utilitarian clothing.
I think cardigans can be useful, office friendly – the Loro Piana’s Walnut is a nice example of a soft, considered , if expensive expression.
There can be some fun with the buttoning up discipline ; middle buttons, no buttons, all buttons.
Shirt or t-shirt, the statement of elegance is there if the quality and fit of the cardigan shrouds a man correctly ; sloppy and it will have that Old Man in the Tomato-Patch look….
Grazie, JR.
One of my favourite articles so far, so precise and with excellent visual underpinnings. If I may add a romantic argument against quarter zips: the metalware is cold and does not want me to physically approach the wearer, too uncomfortable.
Oh that’s a good point Susanne, though I think many guys on here sometimes forget considering “that” part about what we wear unfortunately.
Sorry Simon. The half or quarter zip just doesn’t look right to me. Like it can’t decide what it really is with a zipper: ne pesce, ne carne. Maybe that’s the problem with so many attempts to modernise classic looks.
There is a cardigan version of this style with bigger buttons, which I find far more practical and elegant. It can be buttoned all the way up or left totally open or just buttoned differently that gives different looks. I have three I just impulse bought in Shetland wool, and I wear them way more than I originally expected to. Working at a desk, I’ll sometimes swap the jacket with these – like Cary Grant in “That Touch of Mink” Not quite the shawl cardigan, which almost feels too cozy for an office or work environment, these buttoned cardigan versions of the quarter zip above work better IMO.
I think it’s called the Barbour Cardigan, but I have these Alan Paine ones that my girl is always stealing. The buttons make this thing so much more versatile and comfortable and ultimately more elegant – to me, at least.
Years ago, the CEO of FIAT, Sergio Marchione wore these half or quarter zips all the time as his Italian bad boy “hoodie” look. Actually, he wore the dark navy crew more often, but for some reason the half zip stuck, and the offices all over Italy added another weird item for the uniform of “mid-level” employee. And that, to me, is why the zip will likely be a regretted purchase – already dated looking, i think.
Thank you, I cannot argue with that, a good thing if people dress for themselves. And could not agree more re buttons, especially as a replacement for shawl collar cardigans in the workplace, they are a lot friendlier. The only exception for the zips for me would be skiing, where buttons might be too difficult to handle with gloves/cold hands.
Hi Simon,
Totally agree – 1/4 or 1/2 zip knitwear just does not work with shirt collars at all. Perhaps with a tie and sports jacket at a push but I think they do best with a t-shirt or roll-neck knitwear underneath.
Colhays do a great 1/2 zip – the alpine model – which is very stylish but I’d never wear it with a shirt. Shirt = v-neck or open cardigan in my eyes.
A knitwear style I do like is this…. (trying to link to a photo from a Google search here – let me know if it doesn’t work or is not allowed)
6Z0A9273-sq.jpg
…but they seem uncommon in the U.K. Collar is somewhat Valstarino-esque and a bit more forgiving if worn with a shirt.
T-shirts under crewnecks is a whole other conversation and I recommend going through the fit process with Son Of A Tailor to get this right.
All the best,
M
Cheers M, yes that style is more of cardigan one, but can be a nice jacket alternative if done well.
The quality on the Colhays one is great but I found the fit didn’t work for me, partially because it’s made to be close (eg in the arms) to layer under skiwear etc
I’m surprised no one apparently mentioned this but personally I find quarter zips simply very uncomfortable to wear with collared shirts. The collar is collapsed/crushed around my neck in an unwieldy way, so i never do this.
Also, I actually agree on the annoyance of taking sweaters on and off (if wearing a shirt, not a t-shirt) and think you are underestimating a bit the actual reality of most people’s office.
It probably isn’t a problem in a small and/or super-modern office with a constant temperature you can dress for, but if (like me) you work in a large complex of buildings with “spotty” fixed central heating creating very significant temperature differences between different floors/buildings/rooms, then yes taking the sweater off and on repeatedly I find very annoying, since it usually also requires quite a bit of repositioning of shirt collar/sleeves/tails. But I personally avoid this by just wearing a jacket instead, which is usually enough with an undershirt + shirt. If it’s really cold (rare) I might go for a flannel shirt or at most add a gilet (under the jacket), which usually comes off at mid-day.
I know I’m in the minority, so I never fuss about this, but there’s something odd about a metal zipper with a knit. I can accept that I may be the only person this bothers. I prefer buttons.
I certainly don’t think you’re the only one, Steve. It’s more suited to the knit’s original use in old sportswear – think someone skiing and wanting the quick ventilation variation
“This came up recently in another article, where a reader was saying a crewneck is too hard to take on and off in the office, and so he wears a gilet.”
For me, it’s not that taking a crewneck on and off is difficult in itself. The issue is that I carefully style my hair every morning and use product to hold it in place, so removing a sweater completely wrecks it. That’s what makes it such a faff in the office.
Thanks Ahmed – see comment above on that. Surely in the past hair was even more carefully coiffed if anything, and yet it wasn’t a problem?
With regard to the point about it being a faff to remove a crew neck in the office… It really depends on your hair style.
Those with sharp styled haircuts and possibly very fine hair will find that removing any kind of knitwear that needs to go over the head is likely to then necessitate a trip to the washroom to comb their hair carefully back in place. Others may just find shirts need carefully retucking afterwards.
These are what we call first world problems.
Just a better version, I think…
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Jeans and tee or trousers and shirt…
Nice, thank you
I’m not a big fan of v neck cardigans over t-shirts – was genuinely considering one like this just for tees.
Agree 100%
Huge fan of these cardigans from Zanone / Slowear, called the Chioto model.
Good chance to generally express my joy for the Zanone sub-brand, it is on the slimmer side but they have a lovely broad range, from ice cotton in the summer, to thin and thick merino or cashmere jumpers in winter. They also have the Incotex brand for pants, with nice chinos, although I find their jeans to have too low of a rise, and lean to Jacob Cohen instead. Most of my shopping while in Tokyo ends up being from here, or Beams for smarter clothing.
On the article itself, I work in an office but with covid and casualisation I mostly wear undershirts and a sweater throughout winter, often a cashmere polo shirt, or a 1/4 zip over a t-shirt etc. If I need to wear a shirt for a client meeting, I bring a sport jacket or if more casual a shawl cardigan or the above chioto. Main reason being I find the shirt collar not comfortable when tucked under the 1/4 zip collar, and the heating is often too high so need to take the sweater off during the day (and as other readers have mentioned, taking off a crew neck can mess hair up which is easier to avoid).
Preppy, not Ivy! One is meant to be showy, the other understated.
Well, yes a good distinction to make, but still, Ivy was originally all about mixing unexpected things together, in particular sportswear with traditional tailoring
Couldn’t agree more – I’ve more or less given up on quarter zips for this reason. If I want a higher neck line I’ll just go with a turtleneck. Plus I find quarters zips are tricky to match with most casual jackets too, creating an odd shape which looks too busy. Crew neck all the way for me!
Great article and balanced perspectives as always, Simon. I will say that as a gent with a very long neck and head (even more so than yours) I’ll do what I can to frame the face and take away from the extended neck, half zips included. That said, I tend to wear them with a tall, single-piece unlined buttoned-down collar, so that the collar and knit have parallel shapes.
This was a really good article. I agree with every point.
What are your views on something like the rubato sportsman with a dress shirt underneath?
I generally think it doesn’t look that great with the two collars, but even if you do, it’s much better with a softer collared shirt in the same way
QOTD: “Men think they’re the answer to everything because they go with everything; but they’re not, because they don’t.”
Thanks for the precise diagnosis, as always, Simon. More clarity where there was less is great!
I’m in the “yes” camp for more insights on t-shirt necklines as I find mine can tend to get lost or unbalanced under crewneck knits.
Taken out of context, I read this as a dig at the patriarchy – I.e the “they’re” refers to the men.
Hi Simon – I mainly agree with you on this, however I think there is a still a place for them in the workplace, where well executed. Yes, some styles of shirt collars don’t sit as well as under a v or crew neck but I find the higher neck can help frame the face/upper torso particularly for those with longer necks. I wear them in a good quality fine merino or silk cotton mix in a dark olive or muted brown paired with the right trousers. I tend not to wear them more casually and if I did it wouldn’t be in the fine knits
Thanks
Colin
Thanks Colin. Would the shirt itself not frame the face in the same way though?
Food for thought….I might need to rethink.. I always thought that the “capsule” of blue chinos, un-ironed dress shirt, quarter zip, fleece and Vans would cover most options. Orphaned suit jacket and fake LP city Loafers for a meeting with the CEO….
Ha
Obviously like a quarter zip better under a tee etc but what do you think of full-zip jumpers? Particularly if it’s something like a heavy rib knit.
I think they can be nice, but often the weight you want in a knit like that makes them better in a half zip than a full zip. Also the little zip on the bottom can be annoying!
For both those reasons I’d always prefer a half zip, but can see how people want a full zip out of convenience.
In fact going to some other comments here, I think part of the popularity comes from the fact that people really want a cardigan in terms of functionality, but a cardigan seems too traditional
Exactly, Simon – I have a full-zip from Anglo-Italian for those reasons. Even wear it unzipped often.
The main point of your article was underscored yesterday by my brother-in-law who was wearing a very nice shirt, but the collar was sadly suppressed by a quarter zip.
I don’t own a quarter-zip. I tried on a very nice one in Hermes 10 yrs ago or so when I was buying a grown-up tie for my son to wear at his graduation (his only tie being that of a House prefect at school, and it still had soup down it). The jumper was cashmere and it was absolutely gorgeous. I looked at the price tag – £485 as I recall reading, and was more than tempted in spite of buying my son a fabulous tie (ok, and one for myself). I then read the tag again – £1485, a little more than I was prepared to spend, particularly for an item that the dreaded moth was almost certain to pounce on.
And you know what? I have tried a couple of other qtr-zips and they just don’t match up to that Hermes cashmere. I’ve never been to keen on zips in wooly jumpers anyway, so the qtr-zip fad has passed me by. Hey ho, no great loss methinks.
Thank you for your articulating my dislike of the quarter zip. I always thought it was its uniquity in the City (along with the plastic gilet), combined with a mild jealousy because I run too hot to wear any kind of jumper all day. Anyway I’d much rather wear a jacket/blazer than a jumper of any kind….
Good post. Way too “industrial” for my taste….
I have yet to find a handsome zipper. I’ll take Quality buttons, please.
(Leather/fabric laces, no thank you.)
Very nice article. Quarter zips just gets too busy overs collars. Also, the suit and tie at the office are not dead yet, where I work they are mandatory when meeting clients. And a nice suit and tie make a world of difference over cheap ones, even more than before I would say.
Hello Simon.
I agree with most of your points but one : When you say that the downward, externally facing curves of a shirt collar clash against the direction of the upward facing curves of a quarter zip…
This configuration is exactly the one of dress shirts meeting the lapels of a jacket. I will however agree that the knit flatten and prevent the shirt collar to take is righteous place. A matter easily corrected by wearing a tie.
I’m happy you mentioned tie wearing, but it’s most definitely a look, and not one for most. That being said, I have a friend who is never without a tie, but don’t own a jacket. He sports all kind of knits, often quarter zips, and I always found the result good looking.
I’d add that I dislike the quarter zip on top of a T-shirt personally. To my eyes, something is lacking. I’d wear a very fine roll neck, or maybe a scarf ? But again, in truth, I simply don’t own nor plan on owning a quarter zip…
PS : if needed, I’d consider adding a collar stay on the shirt. Not the flimsy plastic ones that are sold with the shirt, but a separate one, maybe in mother of pearl… It would give the boost in shape needed. I admittedly always sports stiff collars with stiff collar stays on all my shirts (bare the button down ones of course) even casual. I like the contrast between a very soft body, and big strong collar dancing in the wind….
One solution to the t-shirt neckline and crewneck conundrum mentioned multiple times, if a shirt collar feels too much or doesn’t fit propertly under the crewneck, is to wear a stand-collar/collarless shirt under the crewneck.
I originally got inspired by the combination worn in https://www.permanentstyle.com/2017/10/how-to-wear-trainers-part-3-style.html and like the little pop of contrast and/or neutral color a white or light-blue chambray stand collar adds between the face and the sweater.
Much ado about nothing. It can look good with a shirt. A lot of your jeans don’t really work in my view. But that’s my view and not a rule.
In my case it’s not that crewneck and v-neck are too much fuss with a t-shirt. I think that the issue is more related to one’s relationship with one’s own body: a tshirt with a crewneck seems like something is missing and drives the eye towards the neck. I have a fairly long neck and as such the crewneck makes me look more like an ostrich, I use t-shirts with v-necks a lot (often I don’t need to wear a shirt, but I like the comfort of wool), because the sloping of the latter mitigates this sort of “neck nakedness”. Funnily, I usually don’t wear quarter zips with t-shirts…
Johnstons picture is a full-length zip from their FW24, not a quarter. It had two zippers, you can see it partly unzipped at the bottom.
You express exactly how I feel about quarter zips. I can’t see any way they can fit into my wardrobe. But now I may have to get some navy chinos. I haven’t had any in about 20 years!
Speaking from experience in my finance office, most of the guys wearing gilets are because it’s so cold! Centrally controlled A/C. Some of the women wear coats!
Is a gilet with a shirt really much warmer than a long-sleeve cashmere crewneck?
its not much warmer, but i can see the appeal. it allows better thermo regulation IMO. you can zip down, roll up sleeves, and definitely less fussy to get on and off…no need to adjust sleeves, collar or tuck shirt back in (with a jumper for example). also if you get some coffee down a gilet, then that’s no big deal. they’ve become such a part of the uniform that some banks give out branded ones to staff. and you can get fancy versions too, i think Saman Amel make a really expensive cashmere one because why not.
Reading the article and comments makes me think there’s probably a longer consideration that could be written about otherwise sound articles of clothing which have been ‘ruined’ by association or ubiquity. I’d be intrigued what would be on readers’ lists. PS often produces their own versions to escape some of those associations! The article deals with quarter zips on its own merits, but it is very hard to separate judgement from the fact this garment is enjoying its moment in the sun. Have always preferred a crewneck but one of my favourite Army issued bits of kit was a cotton Norgee (Norwegian) shirt. So warm but practical in that you could unzip and untuck and immediately shed excess heat when on the move. Same reason I plump for a quarter zip when skiing. Can’t achieve entirely the same effect with a wool version though. Aside from aesthetic considerations I think some temperature regulation is a key attraction of the quarter-zip.
Absolutely Patrick, the function it was built for. I like the idea of the article too
All valid points. On the one hand it’s nice that knitwear is being worn, but on the other it’d be more elegant in another style. On the subject of gilets though, I just don’t get the puffer vest under suit jacket look. Horrid.
I know, that one is so bizarre. It’s not even practical, as the suit jacket becomes so tight, and practicality is usually the excuse with a lot of this
HI Simon. Yes the puffer vest for warmth often seems a little awkward.
For a little extra warmth with tailoring there’s a slightly “old school” look you still occasionally see where an older gentleman wears a navy V-neck under a suit. The UK politician Michael Heseltine springs to mind, and there are one or two photos on the internet showing this look
I think the key is that the collar is fairly deep, with the points framing the face so the V-neck itself almost disappears. The effect is understated, and gives off that English country house feel you posted about a few years back.
Also in passing I also quite like the look of longer collar points worn outside crewneck knitwear. To me it creates a shade more relaxed, carefree vibe.
I’m with you on the latter, though I find the shirt really has to have a soft and slightly smaller collar.
I don’t think there’s anything that old school about a V-neck under a suit? It’s something I do quite often with our vest for example
Hahaha I usually dress live you in those pictures with the jeans! LOL
I watched the Championsleague final this weekend and the zip polo of Mikel Arteta really annoyed me. (This is probably the final proof that I am now more obsessed with menswear than with football.) It just didn’t make any sense to me. A short sleeve polo is already sportswear. No need to try and make it even sportier just for the sake of being different. Reminds me of the principle that great design stems from function, not mere fashion.
I will forever the navy quarter zip with Rishi Sunak.
I could never buy one.
Good article. Before I got to “The quarter-zip sweater was originally a piece of sportswear” I already was thinking this. They are actually great as sportswear.
I always think they look uncomfortable with a shirt – I have tried it and the clash with the shirt collar is simply too much for me.
Disagree about the extra tall zipped collars. They’ve been available for men for years – not always easy to find – from good quality brands. I like them but they are very casual. They are comfortable when you want something loose and baggy to throw on and don’t want to wear a hoodie.