Brioni bespoke jacket and trousers: Review
This Brioni jacket was made for me under their bespoke programme, using the London store on Bruton Street. We also made a pair of cotton trousers, which I cover lower down, and a shirt.
In our previous article, I made the case for Brioni as a bespoke option for those that like the experience of a luxury brand, and the easier access of having a network of stores.
With bespoke starting at £5,360 (inc. VAT) Brioni is around the same price as the biggest-name tailors, whether in London, Paris or Milan. The quality of the make was also, from what I could see, very good.
The only missing piece of the puzzle was fit.
Fortunately, this has also turned out well. There are a couple of small areas that could be improved on the jacket, but overall the fit is at least average among the top bespoke houses, and you’d hope would be improved over time in the same way.
I wasn’t that confident at the start, though, for two reasons.
First, the system of taking measurements and aspects of the body shape was quite programmatic, working from amending house blocks. Often this is a warning sign that what you’re going to get is closer to made-to-measure than bespoke.
However, it’s only a rule of thumb, because what really matters is how much, how often and how finely the tailor is willing to alter those pre-existing ideas of fit.
Having an individual paper pattern, drawn from scratch, suggests there will be more of this. But there’s no reason you can’t do that from a block as well.
The second thing that worried me was that under this Brioni system, the first fitting would be in a spare piece of material, and largely in a Brioni-style jacket - not the style I would necessarily want in the end.
This can be useful for the tailor to get the ideas of balance and proportion right, before moving onto style. But it does mean the customer has fewer opportunities to see their desired style and perfect it.
At the first fitting many of the fundamentals were good, such as the front-back balance and my sloping shoulders.
But we did make large changes to the style, lowering the buttoning point almost two inches (to 18.5 inches from the shoulder seam), adding an inch in length, and widening the shoulders, as well as making the waist and back larger.
At the second fitting (there were four in total) Brioni’s approach seemed to work, with the jacket now in its correct cloth, fitting well and in a style I preferred. Tailors might well question this step-by-step system, but if it works for Brioni to coordinate between the store and the Italian workshop, the only thing lost is one extra look at the style.
The cloth I picked for the jacket, by the way, was a wool/silk/linen in a pale beige. It was intended as a replacement for this jacket which, despite Elia's best attempts, I have simply outgrown. (There’s a whole separate article there, on the longevity of tailoring and changing body shapes.)
Brioni do have a lot of cloths to select from, but they tend towards the more silky and luxurious, the Super 180 wools and the superfine cottons. So a lot of them I wouldn’t go for.
I still found something I loved, but a service like MTM at Ralph Lauren Purple Label would have more cloths that would appeal to me, as well as perhaps a greater range overall - both luxurious worsteds and hairy tweeds (and nearly all proprietary).
The trouser material was a silky-feeling cotton, in a lovely cream. And the shirt they made by default was also in a luxurious twill. But both were superfine cottons, which feel lovely but do crease quickly.
It’s also fair to say that Brioni charge a greater uplift for luxurious fabrics than most tailoring houses. Although there is a good range available at that starting price of £5,360, the cloth I picked meant the jacket would have cost £4860 and the trousers £1640 - a total of £6500.
The trousers fit very well from the start. In my notes on the first fitting it says: “Trousers good - nice fit, nice balance, overall impressed. Widened leg slightly, took in waist a touch, but that's all.”
These corrections were made precisely at the second fitting, and from then on there was just some umming and erring over length.
The jacket was a little trickier to fit, because the first fitting had been so much tighter than I would normally want. But by the third fitting, there were only minor things to correct, like a little wrinkling on the front from the way my shoulders are rounded forward.
The final result, as is shown in the images below, was solid. Perfectly balanced on the front and under the arms; following the contours of my back nicely from nape to seat; sleeve pitched cleanly despite being a relatively slim cut.
All this was more impressive given it’s such a lightweight cloth, and unlined.
I wouldn’t normally have a summer jacket completely unlined, but it’s the style Brioni usually do, and it gave them an opportunity to show off their internal finishing.
That combination of being unlined and using a lightweight material meant that the back was not as clean as a heavier, lined jacket would be. But still, I think there was a small issue with the slope of the shoulders on the back of the jacket.
This is never perfectly clean, as otherwise you wouldn’t be able to move, but it looks to me as if the back could do with being picked up on either side, to make it less messy behind the armhole.
There is also, perhaps, a little wrinkling still on the front of my shoulders where they round forward. This is very slight, and I think actually exaggerated a touch by the shadows of the photography, but it’s something else that could be improved in any subsequent commissions.
Overall, though, I should emphasise that this is a solid bespoke fit - better than pretty much any MTM I’ve had, and better than a good number of bespoke tailors too.
The finishing on the jacket was also superb - better than most Italian tailors. Only the top-end names like Ferdinando Caraceni are comparable.
The pick stitches around the edges are exactly what such details should be: clearly handmade, but small enough that most people wouldn’t notice them.
The binding on the inside seams is delicate and precise. The buttonholes are finely done, and it’s always a nice touch when the top buttonhole is sewn twice - on the inside and the outside (see below).
This is done because, unlike the other buttonholes, the top one might be seen on both sides as the lapel rolls open at that point.
The trousers also have attractive finishing touches, like the extra strip used on the side pockets. This adds strength, but also looks nice and clean.
Interestingly, a reader commented on our first Brioni post that they would expect the Roman house to offer very padded, square-shouldered suits.
This is a cut that has been associated with them in the past, and you still see on some ready-to-wear. But actually the summer suits and jackets I was looking at were all softly made, with minimal shoulder padding and inset shoulders.
There is a range of makes, all with names that you can ask about and use for reference. Mine was the ‘Plume’, which I picked because it was the lightest style that still had a full construction in the chest.
Brioni also does styles with nothing at all in the chest or shoulder, and they can do the same inset shoulder as I had, but with the ‘shirring’ or ripples associated with Neapolitan tailoring.
So - again, as another reader asked - they really are a good option for a range of Italian cuts, from the stronger shoulder I’d associate with the Milanese, to the very light and soft Neapolitan.
The first article on Brioni contained a mistake about hand padding of the ready-made jackets. A reader questioned this (thank you) and when I talked to head office, it turned out I had been misinformed.
That original article has now been amended, and if you have any questions on this aspect of the RTW, I recommend reading that. It also means that those jackets, while still very well made, aren’t as unusual or great value.
However, this whole process was about covering the bespoke at Brioni, rather than RTW.
It was meant to establish whether what they offered was proper bespoke, and whether it was executed well.
On those points I can confirm that it is, and it was. There were some small fit issues, as described, but this was still strong bespoke and I think should be considered by anyone that likes the luxury experience of a big brand.
My only caveats would be house style - it helps a lot if you like the natural style of the brand or tailor - and the rising price for different cloths.
I haven't covered the shirt in detail, because it wasn't the focus and because there wasn't room. But I can at a later stage if readers are interested.
Note that there is a surcharge for the full bespoke fitting and hand-padding I had, of £300. This is referred to internally as the ‘LM1’ service, and is included in the price quoted above.
Other clothes shown:
- Green knit: Linen, made to order, from Dalmo
- Brown oxfords: Yohei Fukuda
- Brown loafers: Edward Green Belgravia in mink suede
- Belt: Brown suede from Rubato
- Grey trousers: Crispaire, made by The Disguisery
- Pocket square: Cream cashmere from Anderson & Sheppard
- Watch with brown strap: Cartier 'Chronoflex' Tank Francaise
- Watch with black strap: Jaeger Le-Coultre Reverso
Photography: Alex Natt @adnatt
Like the jacket,goes really well with your grey trousers.The cotton pants are fine but I’m not a big fan of trousers that wrinkle easily.That said,they do look nice though.
Yes, I’m with you on those types of cottons.
I think the jacket is nice with the trousers particularly because of the higher contrast created by the white shirt, and the bit of colour with the brown shoes – that stops it looking too washed out
Excellent post as usual, Simon! Brioni was one of the earliest sartorial brands I knew when I was first acquiring the taste for dressing well, so it is good to know how and what they are now.
I was struck by your reference to your old Caliendo jacket from ca. 2012. Is it a case of your having outgrown it physically? I thought that one of the advantages of bespoke are the generous inlays which allow for alterations over the years. What’s the story there? When do you actually give up on a suit or a sportscoat?
Hi Simon – Really interesting read. Would widening the leg on the cotton trousers after the first fitting not have resulted in marks/holes in the fabric? It’s always been a concern of mine when going for MTM trousers and has kept me away from cotton as a result. Also, would corduroy hide these marks better if a seam were to be let out because of the more textured feel?
It doesn’t usually leave marks in the fabric, no. Even with cord, which can leave marks, the issue is usually more the hard fold there is where the crease has been made, or perhaps a different colour inside if the trousers have been worn for a long time, rather than visible holes.
I did have this issue with a pair of bespoke W Bill twill cotton trousers. The marks are obvious to me when I’m hanging the trousers but when being worn I highly doubt someone else would even notice let alone care. Otherwise it makes a good trouser fabric, fairly crease resistant and durable with an attractive look.
Hi Simon, great read as always. A question on the second-to-last photo: do you have a preferred configuration for sleeve buttons, ie 3 or 4 buttons, kissing or stacked? I went back to the Guide to Suit Style entry on buttons, and in the comment section you said you might do a post on the subject, but it’s been a while since then…
I ask because I’m looking to lengthen the sleeves on a flannel sport coat and am considering adding a fourth button (kissing) to fill the space. Would this suit some styles more than others?
Generally I have four buttons on most things, kissing rather than stacked, and one button on casual Neapolitan jackets. Just because it’s a little more of a tradition there.
But it’s also not something I feel very strongly about, and I do have one or two pieces with stacked buttons, or three. Adding a fourth button on your sport coat sounds like it would work well.
Nice, thanks Simon.
I notice a lot of overlap at the buttoning point that I am not sure I like. It is a nice jacket but it doesn’t establish its own style. I think that for less than half the price you could get something very similar in Naples, minus such extensive handwork. I would have been pleased to see Roman shoulders etc. but this style does not seem to exist anymore and its a shame since variety is always interesting.
Thank you Feurich. I hadn’t thought about the overlap at the buttoning point, but looking at it now in my wardrobe and comparing it to another jacket, the overlap is basically the same (the position of the button and buttonhole). Perhaps the photography isn’t that accurate there.
It is certainly not a style that is unique to Brioni, though I imagine it will be one that will be quite popular. It would be nice if the Roman shoulders were also a prominent option too however, absolutely. I see the most similar style in in the Caraceni branches there and in Milan.
Cost-wise, of course, there are many Neapolitans that are cheaper. My biggest case for Brioni is one of convenience, luxury and then to a lesser extent finishing.
Great photos showing the combination of colours.
Would be interested to learn, from you , more about ‘blocks’ that your articles often refer to.
It would certainly give a better appreciation of MTM and the technical details involved.
Nice point Robin.
I can, although they’re basically just the shape of a RTW suit. If you walk into a brand’s store, and they sell RTW tailoring, then the proportions of that RTW will be the ‘block’ or one of the blocks they use. So its proportions from shoulder to waist, its shoulder line, sleeve width, lapel shape, height of vent and so on.
Really like this, Simon. Particularly the colour palette and overall balance.
You’re best placed to critique fit, of course, but it looks great.
I certainly am now more inclined to pop into their Bicester store for a mooch around, although I appreciate it will likely be odd bits and pieces.
And finally – if there was ever a need for inspiration for an alternative colour in the Dartmoor, the olive (ish) of whatever it is you are wearing with the cream trousers above makes the case perfectly. I’m wearing my cream one today actually, but certainly would love a green, or brown.
Cheers Ant, and yes great point on the olive
Last I checked the Brioni Bicester store was just full of slim stretchy pants and polyester polo tops.
Great review as always.
I’d be interested in a review of the shirt. As well, I don’t believe you’ve ever reviewed your bespoke Marol shirt—I’d like to see that review as well. Thanks!
Have you outgrown many of your older tailoring?
Personally I prefer the Caliendo jacket (partly because of the herringbone pattern) but this is very nice. I think I would appreciate the cloth choices that Brioni have to offer.
Not really. It’s only the Neapolitan things (as they’re cut closer) and Cifonelli, and then only two pieces I think.
In that time I reckon I’ve gone up at least a chest size, 48 to 50, maybe a bit more
Jacket looks beautiful and works well with the grey trousers. Is fabric from Brioni’s exclusive range or a particular mill like Loro Piana?
I don’t think it’s exclusive, but they don’t label the fabrics, they’re all under the Brioni name, so I don’t know what mill it is from
How long did it take from start to finish to complete the commission?
A long time, about 10 months, but that was because of two lockdowns. I’ll check what they normally estimate for beginning to end
Hey – they normally estimate five weeks, from the first appointment to delivery
Hi Simon, would you say that CdL and Cifonelli have offered a clearly superior fit, in your personal experience?
To this? Probably yes, but it’s a matter of small details
I was curious to see this result and pleased it is quite successful. As you remarked, the convenience and professionalism is appealing for those frustrated by visiting tailors! I’ll give the bespoke service in NY a try if I can find a cloth I like. How long did the process take, from the first meeting?
Hey Albert. See above comment on timing. This wasn’t a normal experience given Covid
Albert, they say the time would normally be five weeks, from first appointment to delivery
Very interested in a piece on changing body shape and longevity of commissions as you mention. Would be interested to hear if there are any specific considerations you have made with specific items that has increased their longevity from a fit perspective.
Ok, will do David. Thanks.
If a client has had a thorough discussion with a tailor and the measurements have been taken by the person drafting the jacket and/or trousers (presumably the tailor) – four fittings are absurd. Three should do it and in many cases two if the client and tailor have worked together previously.
There is no small amount of pretension in deciding more is better. I have attended many fittings of celebrity talents with top tailors and these are my observations over 20+ years.
In this case, it’s worth noting that the first fitting was in a test cloth, and that the last fitting involved only one or two very small tweaks – more a check up before delivery than anything more major.
However, I would also say that in my experience the number of fittings really just varies with how the tailor prefers to work. Some like Joe Morgan prefer to work with small adjustments each time, and might take four or five fittings. Someone like John Hitchcock preferred to do it all at once and might just do one fitting.
Now, on occasion Joe could perhaps have done it in one less, and John was too ambitious and needed one more, but the important thing was that they were allowed to produce the best jacket they could in the way they wanted. It doesn’t make any sense for the customer to try and impose or demand something different, if they have any faith in that end result.
Four fittings still seems like a lot. As for not imposing restrictions on the tailor, I think it has to work both ways and the tailor should be mindful of the customer’s needs. If you happen to live in the vicinity of the tailor, then I suppose it’s fine. But if you’re being fitted at a trunk show, as many people do, that would really extend the wait time. My first jacket with W&S was done in two fittings and I was very happy with the final product.
Absolutely, it’s a balance and if you’re being fitted ideally it’s far from ideal. But I would also say that if you are asking a tailor to do dozens of hours of highly skilled work to make something for you, the least you can do is give them the space to do what they think is a proper job. When customers push for speed, that’s when craftsmen start cutting corners that they know the customer won’t notice
Nice, detailed coverage. Thanks for clarifying the pad stitching situation.
The fit is nice and conservative. No big issues, but no particularly flattering lines either. The sumptuousness of the fabric does a lot of work in these shots.
How was the general tailoring experience? You made the point in the first post that some of Brioni’s price is justified by its reliable communications and seamless, pleasant experience. Has that borne out?
Good point Ben, sorry I should have touched on that.
Yes it has. All appointments were communicated efficiently, everything was always ready when I arrived, and all adjustments had been made perfectly. It was a lovely place to be and the staff were friendly and effective.
Of course, you’d think much of this would come from any tailor, but as we know it’s not always the case
Hi Simon, I have a question regarding the alteration of sleeve length. Do you alter the sleeves of jackets from the cuffs or shoulders? Regardless of the length they need to be cut and the price what do you think would be the best? Thank you!
It’s best to alter from the shoulders, so there is no amendment to the position of the buttons relative to the end of the sleeve.
It’s a more involved and often expensive job that way, and if the changes to the button position would be small then there’s nothing wrong with doing it from the cuff instead. But generally altering from the shoulders is best.
Imagine a cone, larger circumference at the top coming down to a smaller circumference, this is a sleeve. The measurement of that larger circumference is the size required plus fullness to go into the respective armhole. Move down the cone, shortening the sleeve length, and you’re reducing the circumference measurement, hence, reducing the fullness allowance. This produces a “dry” looking sleeve, lacking fullness and probably showing a shortness of crown. A job never to be done by anyone other than a tailor who makes the full job in the first place.
On mtom, stick to sham buttonholes and if you’re that particular find a good tailor that can hand sew your cuff holes at a lesser cost and hassle of shortening from the crown.
Oh, and what happens to a check jacket with long sleeves?
Absolutely, there is that difference. Obviously the difference in circumference is not that large for a small change, though, and I’ve never noticed a visual or comfort difference when I’ve done it.
Of course it is a much harder job than altering from the other end, and I’d always go to the same tailor or a very good alterations tailor to do it.
Simon, first photo of you about to walk into the Brioni store is great, very nice color combinations and overall a “cool” look. For decades I have always thought that Brioni was perhaps a bit “flash” but your article certainly resets that opinion and I wish them the best after many years where their ads and marketing campaigns seem to really stray from their heritage. Enjoy the clothes.
Thank you Thomas. Yes that top image is particularly nice isn’t it? A good example of neutrals working well to create an elegant but not corporate look
Brioni should be a reference for most tailors for creating a luxury experience from the moment you walk into the store ( Bruton Street interior design being my favorite). Though the price tag is hard to swallow, the work on the Jackets is really refined and well executed, but the trousers do lack a bit. Having a pair of trousers that cost £1640 with machine made buttonholes and straight machine sewing on the pockets seems a bit off. Needless to say a great commission Simon!
Thanks Gianluca. I think the straight sewing on the pockets is more a style thing than anything else.
Very nice Artikel. I would have appreciated an article that covers a matching jacket and trousers from a 160s+ wool more though, since this is the material a ps reader would most likely choose when going bespoke with brioni (at least in the dream of doing so).
Thanks Tim. That would have been nice, though I’m not sure you’re right on what PS readers would choose. I don’t tend to talk about or cover suits in Superfine wools like that.
Not that it wouldn’t be nice though, just less my style
Nothing wrong here. All clean and high quality and modern.
Just seems pretty wildly over priced.
Fit matters. Finish matters.
However, I think “purchasing optionality” matters too. I feel you could get something very close to what is in the article for a great deal less money.
However, if you want, as an example, a cream flannel double breasted suit of high quality, you need to go to a top tailor. You won’t find anything like it elsewhere.
Why do you think a top tailor needs to do a cream flannel DB, but anyone can do a beige wool/silk/linen SB?
Great article. It seems that Brioni is still in the game. This article got me to think about an article that I read some years ago in Parisian Gentleman. It seems that Hugo has a more negativt view of Brioni. (To be honest. I trust you Simon 1000 times more than I trust the recommendations from Hugo). https://www.parisiangentleman.com/blog/wake-up-brioni
That article is from 2016. I myself was trying to figure out if maybe then going to Simon was sign of course correction. All brands have become more casual, but the website is not as Vulgar today as those images.
I can agree that your commission were made very well and fit very well too. However, if you don’t like their house / signature style (and having to largely alter them to your own taste), what’s the point of making it with them? Kind of goes against your own previous advise to seek the tailor who’s style you appreciate.
Good point. The primary reason is that my coverage on PS is always partly for myself, and partly for readers. I try to be as broad as possible in what I cover, so that it is of benefit to readers even if their preferences are slightly different to myself.
But yes, as noted in my first article on Brioni, the house style would be one thing that I would count against the experience.
Thanks Simon. Certainly do appreciate your coverage on a variety of makers and styles. Looking at the number of responses, there indeed seems to be a lot of interest/curiosity in Brioni.
lots of praise but to my eyes the back of the jacket looks bad. Look at those wrinkles in this photo
Also, why are there an inward bump on the left upper arm just below the shoulder seam? Not nice.
Thirdly, and this may be a style thing or a photo angle distorsion, is why the back of the jacket is shorter than the front?
4th, is why the jacket´s arm cuffs are not parallel to the shirt cuffs here
Most of these things I talk about in the article. Perhaps it’s worth reading those points again?
– The wrinkles on the back of the shoulder I talk about, and are the largest issue with the fit, but it’s exaggerrated a little by the photo
– That inward bump I also mention, but it is very minor, and again really a question of shadow and the very lightweight cloth and structure
– The back of nearly all jackets is shorter than the front. English tailors don’t always do that, but generally being very slightly shorter at the back looks better.
– That’s very slight, and often sleeves are cut with a slight angle there because it means overall, through range of movement, it sits better alongside the cuff
Overall, I think it’s worth taking my assessment – given my experience with the best tailors in the world, and the fact I’ve worn the jacket here in person – that as I say in the article the jacket is average for a top bespoke house, while certainly not being perfect.
Rather than closely examining images
Thank you for your reply.
A small remark re the front vs back length. It has to be level if you are getting a bespoke garment made. You have slightly prominent shoulder blades and a curve at the top the back that pull the cloth at the back upwards. If the prominent shoulder blades are properly accounted for in the pattern, the skirt of the jacket front and back will be levelled.
Thank you, but this is a point of opinion at least. Tailors differ as to whether it should be perfectly straight from back to front, with the English tending to prefer quite straight, and the Italians more sloped, with the Neapolitans often the most.
The shape of my back has nothing to do with it. A good fit accounts for all that in terms of finding the length at the back that is desired by the tailor.
Why not post a pictures of the baste or forward fittings like you do for all the other bespoke tailors?
Usually I do two articles on someone I’m reviewing – a general introductory article which functions for lots of different products and areas, and then a full review article on one piece.
With Brioni, it felt more important for that introductory article to be about style, value and experience, rather than a preliminary fitting
We just have to confess that this jacket – and the overall outfit – is really chic!
By the way, two trendy items that make people behave like ships: the white or off-white trousers and socks. And above all the socks being worn with casual and even smart trousers whose colors are not near white!
Frankly, I’ve come to prefer those who go sockless, as this trend impoverish our sense of style. Why this irrational focus whereas so many colors are available? One just need to take a look at the current assortment offered by Mes Chaussettes Rouges to know that the choices seem limitless.
I can absolutely see that view John, but personally it’s not my style.
First, because I find most coloured socks to look a little cheap. A dark green or a maroon with a fairly simple outfit elsewhere, yes, but nothing more.
And on white or off-white socks, that’s an Ivy thing. If you don’t like that look, that’s fine, but it’s worth understanding where the philosophy comes from
Do you not specify things such as the size and position of pockets, you seem to be content with whatever the tailor offers as his standard.
Good point Duncan. As with many things I cover, there is a balance there between wanting to have something I prefer, and wanting to demonstrate to readers what the house naturally does. This is relevant, I find, because in many cases it pays to go with what the tailor naturally makes, rather than trying to completely change their design
I can understand that Simon but wih a bespoke garment surely such a test can be justified if it is not essential.
Certainly something I insist upo.n
I’m sorry Duncan, I’m not sure what test you’re referring to?
When one consults a bespoke tailor one expects him to be able to understand and deliver all ones requirements. This is an additional test of his skills thus.
Correctly sixed and positioned pockets are an essential to me and would certainly inform a decision whether to afford the man a second commission. I sue my pockets in a specific way and I am not for varying that for ech suit.
The coat is short in back balance, needs to be passed up through middle an inch, nothing to do with shoulder height ie slope, I would not have let that go from my workshop
John, to be honest I find it funny now that people still write comments like this. It’s been happening for so many years, and so often the opinion is wrong.
I’m not saying yours is, but I always find it puzzling – and today as I said, amusing – that tailors proclaim such certain opinions on something they haven’t even seen in person.
Simon it’s quite obvious it’s short in the back,it isn’t meant to be a critical comment ,it’s just from a fitting comment, I’m sure the make is great but fitting is a different aspect, many tailors are great cutters but when it comes to fitting they are lost at sea, this is an observation not meant as personal, if read as such my apologies
No worries, no it didn’t read as personal at all. It’s just that this kind of comment has been made so many times on my articles over the years, and then the tailor in question will see the garment personally, and change their mind.
The best tailors I know would never make an unambiguous, public declaration of a problem just based off 2 or 3 photos – let alone diagnose exactly how to fix it, and by how much. At the most, they might suggest or ask whether that is an issue, as others have done here.
Not to make an argument but it’s painfully obvious it’s short in the back from all the photos, I understand the problems with fitting as I have many body builders as customers they are very difficult to fit to say the least, but observing your body figure it’s obvious that your inclination is more than the usual proportion and therefore you need back length, it isn’t an argument but after 3 fittings it should be bordering on a perfect fit, I’m lucky on occasions to be able to ask the customer to arrange a second fitting, just to add I can’t fathom out how you would find the matter funny after paying such an exspence
I think you’re getting into a different area there John, perhaps, which is whether front and back should be the same length or not. See above comments on that.
It was the certainty of the required correction, and measurement, that I found funny.
Simon I admire your unshakeable view of the coat but fitting is fittinng and any good tailor/ coat maker would not have let the coat to be left the workshop, please excuse if I sound direct but it annoys me in today’s standard of so called fitting, your figuration demands back length, please forgive me for being direct, it isn’t meant in a personal fashion just my annoyance at today’s standards
Thank you John, and again don’t worry I don’t take it personally at all.
I would just suggest that such strong views should perhaps be tempered by the fact you haven’t seen the garment in question.
Would it be possible for Simon to commision John Weeks to make a bespoke jacket for a future article?
I’m happy to consider it if John could show me some examples of his work
I think you would be a very difficult fit for a tailor as judging from the photos you have a slight increased dorsal kyphosis and the consequent rounded shoulders that are also very sloped, with a fairly wide base of neck. That said, the tailors have seriously failed, especially in the second frontal view photo which shows major wrinkling behind the lapel, and the same problem at the back which you comment on. Perhpas the style does not go with your physique?
Although commenters have unambigously stated both that I am an easy shape and a difficult one, the consensus of tailors tends to be that I fairly easy on the front, as the sloping shoulders aren’t too difficult, but the prominent shoulder blades and hollow lower back make that much trickier.
I think saying they ‘seriously failed’ here is a definite exagerration, whether it’s something that can be accurately judged online or not. As mentioned that wrinkling is a little exagerrated in the imagery.
I think the style is fine for my physique, unless we get into discussions of wanting to flatter or not. But, the style is very unforgiving, because there is almost no structure inside at all, no lining either, and it is a lightweight and delicate cloth
Thank you for posting my comment, I thought I was a little bit hard on you, but I am an arthritis specialist physician used to looking at the shape of people! I admire your sense of style and love your website but there does seem to have been an unusual amount of criticism on this particular item. I was obliged to have a bespoke suit made a couple of years ago, my first for a long time, because as the RTW fitter said- they can accommodate one physical imperfection but not two!
No worries Patrick, specialist views are always appreciated.
Hi Simon, have you ever tried Cesare Attolini mtm? (jacket or suit). Have searched here in PS without any results. It would be interestering to read your thoughts about it. I have read from Andreas Weinås that the two brands he is most satisfied with when it comes to the fit of the jackets or suits, are actually Saman Amel and Attolini, even if he compared it with the bespoke pieces he has bought.
I haven’t, no Stefan. I was meant to last year, but the pandemic put paid to that.
Unfortunately they don’t come to London, so it’s not easy
Hi Simon, is there anywhere we can find some more information on the green knit? I have the read the article about Dalmo but you don’t mention a linnen knit I think. Not an obvious material for such an item and it doesn’t look like linnen either. Would be interested in knowing a bit more!
Sure Jan, I can try and do something more on it in the future, and I can find out from Dalmo where the linen was from. Of course, that still means you need to find a bespoke knitwear maker to get one, and they’re few and far between.
The article was based off my first commission with Dalmo, and I’ve tried a couple of things since. Currently waiting on a completely hand knitted (old ladies with knitting needles!) roll neck for winter
Hi Simon, how much did the shirt cost? Is their entry-level shirting comparable in price to the main bespoke outfits on Jermyn Street?
I’m not sure on the shirt actually, I’ll have to check.
Hello Simon. I enjoyed reading this article.
One thing I noticed right away was how low the button stance was on this jacket. I then read that you purposely had it lowered to 18.5 inches from the shoulder seam.
This lowered stance seems to create the illusion of a longer upper body/torso and tends to shorten the lower part of the jacket. Perhaps this works well on someone with longer legs and a shorter torso?
Can you explain the rationale for lowering the button stance and its’ effect?
Hey. Have you read the chapter of the Suit Style Guide on single breasted jackets? That goes into it. It sounds like you might find the whole guide helpful.
I’ve read the chapter on single breasted jackets in it’s entirety but am still uncertain as the the effect of the button stance.
To my eye, jackets you’re wearing in your posts with a slightly higher working button placement look much more flattering on you. In contrast, the Solito jacket’s button placement appears too high and is less flattering, but so are the much lower placed buttons as seen on the Brioni and Anglo Italian jackets you had made.
I can visually see this, but can’t explain why. I’m quite certain that the button placement has something to do with proportions (being an orthodontist leaves me with an astute eye in this area).
Do you have any further thoughts?
Sure. I’d say that in general, there is 2 or 3 inches around the natural waist where you can put the button, without the proportions looking too off. Some modern jackets and fashion jackets in the past go too far on this, but with what we’re looking at, that’s the room to play in.
The advantage of a lower buttoning point is that you make the chest area longer and more open, making that look a little bigger.
The advantage of a higher buttoning point is that the lower half of the jacket, the skirt, has a more attractive sweep down around the hips. It also means the waist can be a little smaller usually.
The biggest reason to pick one or the other is how much you prefer those different effects.
Apologies if I missed this, but do you know what weight the cotton trouser cloth is? I’m looking for some smart summer cotton trousers MTM (I have read your guide to summer trouser cloths and understand the cons, but already have a few linen/high twist wool pairs so though it time for a go). I’ve noticed a lot of Italian books (Solbiati etc) having cottons around the 250g range. Is this too light in your opinion?
I think so, yes, and these are about that weight. But I just find they wrinkle so quickly and easily, I wouldn’t recommend a cotton like that
in my ongoing search for an suitable cream cloth for an odd jacket, I’ve found this:
Despite being intended primarily for a suit, I guess, with its light nap, heavier weight and unusual colour (and twill structure similar to your Brioni jacket here), I think it could work for an outwear spring/autumn jacket (let say in rather dramatic DB cut compensating for its texture).
Do you think this one might work or still it does not have enough of body for this purpose? (Certainly it is not as smooth as other cream worsteds I’ve seen.)
Thank you very much!
That is a lovely cloth, but it’s designed for a suit or trousers John. It would be very sharp as a jacket and I’d worry about it – I would only use it if you have seen someone using the same bunch for a jacket
No matter who designs your clothes, wearing a shirt with three unbuttoned buttons looks unkept and sloppy.
I disagree. Perhaps some time I’ll write a whole post explaining why
Thank you. I look forward to reading that !
Any reason to think that the quality of Brioni’s bespoke service would differ across the London and other (e.g. Milan) outfits? Or is it the same master tailor who attends to them all?
Good question. I don’t believe they offer the bespoke in all the stores, but I would have to check with them. Certainly in other locations, such as Milan or Rome, they have separate tailors on site.
I’ve always liked Brioni and they have generally remained constant in quality and fit, except perhaps during their unfortunate collaboration with Justin O’Shea. Their RTW products are a good bargain if you can find them at one of their several outlets or on online discount stores like Yoox or eBay, etc. I hope they keep their current momentum unlike their main competitor Kiton, whose designs are becoming more and more youthful.
The alteration that you’ll see on the image attached would improve the back balance of your jacket
Thank you Gerardo, but I really think tailors shouldn’t suggest alterations to garments they haven’t seen. Any bespoke tailor I know wouldn’t do so
Thank you Simon,
I’m so sorry for my inappropiate comment. I just wanted to give some advice because from the photos that you have posted, wearing the jacket, I could see that you have a prominent shoulder blade.
No worries Gerardo, I didn’t think it was inappropriate, just that it is always hard to give specific fixes to fit online.
I agree with you.
Thank you for your advice!!
Hi Simon. Would you wear this combination to a wedding? I’ve seen the other post showing the linen jacket, paired with the black tassel loafers and grey trousers, but wondering if this would do, too, as it appears a bit more formal. I’m trying to find inspiration within my wardrobe, but coming up short as I only have office styled (and colour) suits – think navy, dark grey. It’s a struggle to create something out of my existing options due it looking too business-y. Your guidance is appreciated.
I think this could look really nice at a wedding, yes. Not too business-y. Do have a look at our articles on wedding attire here though. Unlike a lot of events, the dress code is really driven by the bride’s family at these events, whether explicitly or not, and meeting their expectations is the most important thing.
I really like how the jacket goes with the grey trouser. I think the outfit looks better with open collar. However if you have to wear a tie, what tie would you go for?
I’m not sure, perhaps a dark green or a dark brown? A grey might be nice though a little formal