Last month we talked about how small changes in the proportions of a double-breasted jacket can have a radical effect on its style - and therefore on the people or situations it suits.
This week I've used five of my own jackets to demonstrate these differences.
It's tremendously helpful that tailors of most of the major tailoring styles have made DBs for me, so we can compare house cuts on the same body and figuration.
I've also generally let the tailor cut his house style - so the proportions are representative of the house and local tradition, rather than any individual cutter.
Below we have: Anderson & Sheppard (British drape), Henry Poole (British military), Elia Caliendo (Neapolitan), Ferdinando Caraceni (Milanese) and Cifonelli (Parisian).
With each example, I have added six measurements to the images. This will hopefully help quantify the differences suggested by the photos.
Those measurements are:
- Length of the jacket (back seam from collar to bottom edge)
- Height of the waist button (shoulder seam to centre of that waist button)
- Height of the waist button proportionate to the length (2 divided by 1)
- Overlap (width of the waist buttons)
- Width of the lapel (from the edge to the roll, at the height of the gorge)
- Belly of the lapel (draw a straight line from tip of lapel to turn at waist button; largest distance from that line to edge of the lapel)
There are of course many other measurements I could have included, such as the height of the gorge, the angle of the peak, and so on.
But these five describe perhaps the most important things to the style achieved by a DB - where the buttons are, how far apart they are, and what shape the lapel is.
Henry Poole, London
- Length: 32 inches - joint longest
- Button height: 19.25 - joint lowest
- Button height proportionately: 60%
- Overlap: 3.75
- Lapel width: 4.25
- Lapel belly: 0.5
Ferdinando Caraceni, Milan
- Length: 31.25
- Button height: 17.5
- Button height proportionately: 56%
- Overlap: 4.75 - widest
- Lapel width: 4.75 - widest
- Lapel belly: 0.75
Anderson & Sheppard, London
- Length: 31.5
- Button height: 19.25 - joint lowest
- Button height proportionately: 61%
- Overlap: 4.25
- Lapel width: 4
- Lapel belly: 1 - widest
Caliendo, Naples
- Length: 30
- Button height: 19
- Button height proportionately: 63% - lowest
- Overlap: 3.75
- Lapel width: 4.25
- Lapel belly: 0
Cifonelli, Paris
- Length: 32 - joint longest
- Button height: 19
- Button height proportionately: 59%
- Overlap: 4.5
- Lapel width: 4.5
- Lapel belly: 0.75
Interested in which proportions you prefer and why - though obviously they lose something in being on a mannequin, rather than the body they were cut for.
Handkerchiefs shown are (from top):
- White linen from Anderson & Sheppard
- Multicoloured cotton from Simonnot-Godard
- Grey linen from Simonnot-Godard via Mes Chaussettes Rouges
- Green/white silk from Rampley & Co
- Pink silk from Kiton
Very good comparative. A&S and Caliendo my favorites.
Cifonelli mix of curves and measures look a bit effeminate to me (exaggerate padding in shoulder and too big lapel).
Poole would have been better with chest buttons (imo).
Peak of Caraceni’s lapel lacks of proportion to my eye.
Of course, I’ve been very critic, all jackets look superb in their own style.
Best,
I prefer the Caliendo due to the lower buttoning point and the shoulders + the overall proportions that are really pleasing to my eye. Close second is the Cifonelli. The rolled shoulder and the massive lapels that has a perfect “sweep” across the chest (maybe the belly helps here?)
Kind regards from Sweden
Andreas
Hi Simon,
it is a great idea to make such an article.
But can you please update it with photos of you wearing the jackets in full body.
Everything looks great on the mannequin photos, but it is interesting to see the impact of the different styles on your body – do you look taller, broader ect.
On the mannequin I like most the F. Caraceni jacket. I like the high buttoning and it is aesthetically the best style for my taste.
The A&S jacket would take the second place. I think the A&S Loro Piana windowpane DB jacket that you have in other posts is the best looking jacket that you own.
Regarding the rest – I don’t like the lack of belly on the jacket from Caliendo even though it creates an interesting look. I don’t like the 4×2 style of the Pools jacket and the low buttoning point, but this might suit your body. Without a full body photo it is impossible to tell.
The Cifonelli jackets looks somehow female. I don’t know why.
Thanks Hristo. I can do that at some stage, but wanted to do all these on mannequins as all the other pictures of any of them in other posts are on me.
This is a SUPER article. Extremely useful because you normally never see such jackets in a comparable way. I especially like that you put them on mannequins and fotographed in a neutral, non-stylized manner. It’s really hard to overexagerate just how useful that is.
Could you please make this a series?
I.e. have a similar comparison for single-breasted jackets, maybe even trousers, coats etc.? That would be so useful. Also you are probably the only guy who has all this stuff and blogs, so would really be a unique thing to do for the simple fact that no other blog could even if they wanted.
C
Thanks, that was what I hoped! I’ll certainly do more, though there was a previous one on How wide should my jacket lapels be? too. Look it up
I think another interesting thing you can see is the amount of structure in a jacket. For example, the A&S has lovely curve and shape from the chest canvas, while the caliendo droops when it is unable to sit on your body.
Very interesting article indeed. For me it’s Poole. I like the structure, the longer skirt, the shoulders and the British hour glass shape. And I find only 4 buttons flattering.
Next Caraceni, but the peak lapels are somewhat low.
(PS if technically possible could you add just 1 picture where we see all coats in small at a glance? I can open the pictures and put them next to each other of course or scroll back/forward, but 1 pic says more than… 5 separate. 🙂
Good call, I’ll try to do that or at the least do it next time for a similar piece
Hi Simon. How does your Edward Sexton compare to the aforementioned jackets? Or at least which one does it closely mirror? Thanks.
Good point. Probably the Cifonelli but it varies on the six different measures we had here.
Have had my DB suits & Blazers made by Caraceni for 20 years now & continue to receive unsolicited praise for the cut. I am a short 5ft 7in , broad shoulders so an Italian – type build. Nicoletta has taken up the baton left by her father superbly well.
Simon,
Beautiful coats all. The softness and the drape on the A&S are particularly beautiful and it is perfectly proportioned — shows Mr Hitchcock mastery in the cut .
The Poole on the other hand had beautiful shoulders but seems to miss a lot in the chest/body.
Double Breasted’s to me are about aplomb — which Caliendo is severely lacking.
As to the others, nice but not my cup.
It all looks nice, but still in my mind, a selective look. (In the city I grew up in, the only men I ever saw wearing double-breasted suits/coats ran mens’ clothing stores..)
A difficult fit for someone such as myself (large “drop” between shoulder/chest, and waist)..and one other thing that occurs – all that I have tried on, left me with a rather heavy fabric sensation mid-tummy (obviously where the fabric is “doubled up”)
That being said, my favorite overcoat is a cashmere DB from Pal Zileri, but I don’t look for the same wear sensation as I do in a suit/sport-coat.
Tell us Simon, as someone who enjoys this style, do you notice the sensation of extra fabric up front, is there a way around it (assuming it makes you uncomfortable)?
To be honest, no. But it is certainly something you get used to, and it is perhaps still noticeable in heavier cloths.
I would also say that it is a beautiful thing to have made bespoke. There is a much bigger gap between how a DB off the rack and bespoke will fit you, just because the wrap is so much harder to find a good average for.
The Caliendo and Cifonelli are my favourites. Both button lower which is my preference and look as though they would suit my slight frame.
Wonderful.
I love the drama of the Cifonelli, which is what a DB is about.
Then the Caliendo ( his light structured jackets look much better worn than on a dummy).
Interesting how similar lapel widths look completely different compared to the shoulder, example Poole and Cifonelli
A couple of other dimensions that would be interesting shoulder width and height of the lapel.
Interesting – makes me think about a pet peeve of mine; I have all my DB coats
made with the horizontal distance between the buttons bigger than the vertical ditto. This should also make the overlap wider.
In this respect the Caraceni excels.
Try it!
Best
Henrik
This is very informative and an interesting exercise to compare and contrast – once you start to look closely there is quite a difference between the various house styles. Would choice of style be altered for you, Simon in picking a jacket style intended for a suit or separate jacket, given that you may also be then at different ranges of cloth etc?
Probably not, no. I might opt for a more casual make like Neapolitan given I’d be more likely to wear a jacket casually but that’s all
Hi Simon,
What about your grey flannel Edward Sexton, to my mind the best of all.
Stephen Dolman
Yes sorry, I just went with these five.
The Edward Sexton is my favourite too. But, it wouldn’t look so good on my frame unfortunately, but it has a balance that none of these can match for me.
My first DB was a bit of a disaster as I didn’t appreciate quite the extent to which a DB can look different due to these factors. Far too narrow lapels and overlap. As much as people say learning is the joy of bespoke, I just can’t afford expensive mistakes and have steered clear of DBs since. Bit of a shame really!
I have to say I am surprised just how bad all of these look on a mannequin when we are so used to seeing them on you. logically they shouldn’t look good on a mannequin, but they look awful.
Great article!!
I’m curious as to your height? Gives me a sense of the back length measurement.
6 foot and a half. The half is important
Simon, a very interesting and useful article to be utilized as a guide for planning a future DB jacket, as a lot of technical details are provided . In my opinion the A&S jacket is the best balanced one and its belly line appears unsurpassable.The Caliendo DB seems very poorly proportioned . In between in decreasing order Henry Poole , Cifonelli and Caraceni. More of this kind of articles are welcome.
My favourite is Anderson & Sheppard double breasted.
I like it much!
Poole is interesting: is very clean (is a pity that are very few pictures of Henry Poole’s double breasteds on the web).
To me, Cifonelli has the most drama (in a good way), Caliendo is the most relaxed, and A&S is a beautiful default for whenever you just need to look your serious best. Cifonelli and A&S have great balance in the belly. Caliendo at 0 does notably stand out there, just a little bit might actually be perfect.
Caraceni looks a bit boxy with the wide overlap and therefore seemingly high closure, curious for a live shot. The wide lapels make for a lot of fabric up there. And Poole with only four buttons looks like a very looong torso.
Very interesting comparison!
The Cifo and A&S are the only two I would proudly wear. In my opinion what matters most is the shoulder line and the lapel, rather than the waist button heightt, which in % does not differ much. So maybe my comment is not really specific to DB suits.
The Caliendo looks miserable, the Caraceni looks old fashioned because of the lapel, too horizontal, the Poole has four buttons which is great and a nice waist-to-bottom line, but the dropping/convexe shoulder is a turn-off. A shame that the A&S shoulders also are convexe.
The Cifo concave shoulder is propably why some commentators found it too much feminine. Still it is only lightly concave and the strong rope strengthens its manly look.
By the way, on most pics I see everywhere there is most time one concave shoulder line and one straight one, even on bespoke suits, wondering whether it is a minor fail by the tailor or a shoulders asymmetry of the customer that would knowingly never be corrected by any tailor. Any idea?
Great article thank you.
No one has both shoulders the same – in height or width – so there is often some adjustment by the tailor either in the thickness or position of the shoulder pad to mitigate this. But they will often still be subtly different, as correcting them completely can look a little unnatural.
Very interesting, and I just wonder how much the takes on these are not merely arbitrarily subjective but culturally conditioned. I find the A&S flawless and the Caliendo gruesome but assume it isn’t done justice by a lifeless mannequin. The Ciffonelli is a drama queen, but I like that in a DB.
It would have to be Poole for me, though it needs the two extra buttons on top for balance. On its own, however, I think Poole looks too long. A&S looks more balanced in the length with the same button height. It’s also a little difficult to judge these jackets without seeing them on you. How the proportions of the jacket relate to your body is different than how they relate to each other. My opinion may very well be different if I was comparing how these jackets looked on your rather than by themselves on mannequins.
Love this article & would welcome more in this style, thanks. To my eyes the A&S is the most pleasing, I like its proportions and it looks well balanced in terms of curve of lapel and shoulder shape etc. I like the sleekness of the Henry Poole but would prefer six buttons. Perhaps the dramatic Cifonelli lapels overpower the rest of the jacket & the patch pockets don’t work for me on that one.
Hi Simon,
Cool article! Very interesting comparison. I love Cifonelli’s take on the DB. And while I’m no fan of Tom Ford in general, I must say their DB cut is pretty much bad ass.
As for British or British-inspired tailors, I really like WW Chan’s double breasted cut.
Thanks for the good article.
Paul Fournier
Indeed TF DBs are great. Even RtW with no alterations , they make one look sexy.
Here the Poole double breasted with extra two buttons and a little more short.
The coat improves very much,in my opinion.
http://s22.postimg.org/8qvmdlg7l/henry_poole_british_double_breasted_jacket1.jpg
I agree! But then I suppose it is these different takes on the DB style that makes this interesting.
Wow the grey cifonelli is awesome !!
any idea of the price for a suit like this ?
thank you
Franck
I wouldn’t make a suit in it, it’s too loosely woven for trousers – they’d have no shape. Cifonelli suits are around 6000 euros though
Simon, there’s something special about Cifonelli’s lapel–it’s the only one that curves along the folded edge. Am I right?
Yes, good spot. It’s actually something Lorenzo tries to amplify on some DBs by cutting the lapel from a different piece of cloth to the body, so he can cut it on the bias and so get more shape through there.
nice curve indeed but I thought a few other brands offered it to, Tom Ford to name one.
Thanks for this Simon, a very creative and detailed approach. The Caraceni and A&S are, to my eye, the best balanced. However I think Hristo has a point; we are unable to truly guage the quality of silhouette, cut and style until worn by the figure to which they have been singularly cut and shaped – your own! If you are to repeat the same for SB could we see you rather the mannequin?
There are shots of all of them save the Caraceni on me, just on the various posts – so they are all out there to find, as they were with the piece on lapels on single-breasted jackets. The point of the piece was just to highlight the differences in the numbers shown here, rather than the silhouette, cut or style in other respects. I rather felt that if they were shot on me, it would be that that would be the focus of attention and comments, rather than the pure statistics
Hi Simon, lovely article on the double breasted styles. I am of the personal opinion that the tailor that cuts the most debonair DB is Panico. There’s something about the lapels that give them that very relaxed flair that will avoid effect of the DB wearer being too “uptight” or “stiff”. Would be great if you could find some pics of his DB and comment!
On a person it will give a better idea of the fit
Thanks. The idea here is not to give an idea of fit… All these jackets are pictured on me in other posts – you can look them up and see the fit there. This post is intended to focus purely on the cut and the style, from which fit would be a bit of a distraction
Simon, thank you – a very informative and helpful piece, as always. I recently looked at a grey flannel DB suit where the length seemed pretty short by comparison to all of the ones you featured here (with the jacket ending less than an inch below the level of the end of the sleeves). Is this very unusual? To be avoided?
Many thanks,
Stephen
If it’s shorter than all the ones here, then yes I would.
Thanks very much Simon
Hi Simon, this is fascinating.
On a related subject, I wondered whether you had a view on the best maker(s) for a soft tailored, lightweight sports jacket for summer? I have a very nice linen suit (Irish linen, by a Savile Row tailor) which is beautiful, but it simply wears too hot (even for the English summer) and I’ve been thinking for a while that an Italian maker might be a better option. My thinking is a single breasted in a hopsack of some sort, unlined. Any thoughts?
The colour options are probably too much detail to go into here, but in terms of makers I’d recommend Caliendo, or Ettore de Cesare, whom I have just tried and would highly rate. (Review coming soon)
Thanks Simon. Look forward to the Ettore review. Out of interest, could you elaborate on why you’d recommend Caliendo over other makers?
It’s a fairly long reply, mentioned in various pieces on him over the years. But largely, it’s frequency of visits to the UK, consistency of delivery, and quality finishing
Dear Simon,
Many thanks for your great article! I’m wondering to what extent you can specify the amount of “belly” you would like on your lapel, i.e., before the garment is tailored for you? The reason I’m wondering is that I saw several DB Henry Poole suits with different amounts of belly and I was wondering how much the customer’s choice can influence it or is it only down to individual variations or changes in the house style?
Very best wishes,
Andrew
You can influence it a little, but in general my advice would be to avoid doing so too much. Don’t try to re-design it – show the cutter a Poole one you like.
Dear Simon,
I am thinking of having a db blazer being made in a heavy cloth (eg 20 oz) fox or similar, which I would use in the colder months as a warm layer or coat, depending on temperature. First of all, what do you think of this idea? Secondly, I’m slightly worried that two layers of heavy cloth infant would make the whole thing a bit bulky?
Thanks,
Nikolai
Hey Nick. I think wearing a heavy jacket like that in the winter can be a nice way to wear tailoring, particularly if you wouldn’t do so otherwise.
And no, it shouldn’t be that bulky at the front – unless it’s something like a very fluffy tweed for instance
Hi Simon,
I am commissioning a new suit for the first time in 10 years come the beginning of October! I am having it made up in what is described as a pure woolen “cavalry gabardine” in navy blue, a twill, of course with no pattern. I am having a Brooks Brothers sack cut double breasted suit with a 6×3-roll 2 fastening to be rolled to the bottom if I like, undarted, unvented, soft shouldered, and high arm-holed with flat front trousers, a waist-coat, and an extra pair of trousers, and lining only in the front, sleeves, and shoulders with a finished interior…..That said, do you think that the pure woolen cavalry gabardine will wear well, or should I instead opt for a pure woolen hopsack? I don’t really want fresco, but do want something that will be relatively crisp and wrinkle resistant. The cavalry gabardine states that it is wrinkle resistant in its description, is about 10-13 oz., and is listed as a “Winter suiting”.
the suit will be similar to the one in the link below with the bottom row of buttons in line with the tops of the hip pockets, no ticket pocket, and all 3 rows of buttons functional, but rolled to the middle row. My trousers will of course not bag like those one sadly do.
Please give me yr advice or impressions.
Thanks again!
Gabardine will certainly wear well – it’s tightly woven and feels dense yet sharp. It will look excellent, and be robust, but yes is more of an Autumn/Winter cloth generally. Hopsack would be more the other six months.
The style sounds great – even though the sack suit is not really my style – and the image inspiration also looks like a really good starting point
Hi Simon,
Thanks for yr quick response and insight! I had considered hopsack, but as I already have a navy blue 3 piece hopsack suit, I thought I’d like to try a different fabric at least for variety – I’ve currently got about 30 suits in regular rotation – all seasons considered. I had originally wanted to reproduce my Grandfather’s gray woolen twill DB sack suit, but I have been unable to source the fabric, and I also remember how unbearably hot it was to wear in the summer, it was at least 16 oz. fabric, and even being only quarter lined, it was virtually unbearable in the depths of Summer! I figured that the gabardine would be a good middle ground as I mostly spend my time in air conditioned environments. I was unsure about gabardine, despite the description though, as I rarely wear it, and haven’t had any gabardine in my wardrobe for about 10 years, outside of raincoats.
Thanks on the style comment! I have developed an obsession with sack cuts as they appeal to my OCD for patterns in that they do not interrupt them on the breast (the most visible part of any suit, silhouette aside). I have also found that by creating a steeper that is to say a more angled dart from the rear of the hip pocket up to the armscye, and by playing with the depth of the seam allowance and intake at the rear side seams and center back seams and proper canvassing, a very fitted silhouette can be achieved without the use of the front darts which typically break up patterns and create (to my eye) an inescapable road to nowhere from the hip pocket to the middle of the chest. I am very excited about this new suit. I think my Father and Grandfather would have liked it, and I am very pleased that a man of yr taste also has a positive opinion of this new sartorial endeavor of mine.
I shall update you with any new developments in this project of mine, if you are interested.
Thanks again, Sir!
-Sincerely Yrs,
E.A.E.
I know my odd comment on hopsack sounds…well, odd, but I was thinking about it, and thought that as I already had a hopsack suit, I should probably go with the cavalry gabardine, sorry if it sounded weird in the context of the written conversation! I was also thinking that perhaps the hopsack might be a bit more informal than the desired effect for my DB vintage Brooks clone. I am thinking that while I want the suit to be wearable in most circumstances, that I also want to unequivocally be able to dress it up as a dress suit as needed, but that I also generally tend to eschew the lighter weight plain weave worsteds that I see in so many contemporary bunches and general tailors’ selections these days….There is something romantic in a plain twill in a solid color, very simple and almost elemental, to me. Sorry for waxing poetic upon the sartorial. It is a bad habit of mine, as my ex wife can and will well attest to.
Thanks for yr input, information, consideration, and patience in our correspondence, Sir!
I also just received a notification that my tailor is offering me a nearly 1/3rd discount in pricing from what I had originally planned upon, due to various factors, so that is quite pleasant as well! Happy day indeed!
-Sincerely Yrs,
E.A.E.
Hi Simon,
As per our previous communique, I am posting my question here, though I am unsure as to whether this is the correct location on yr site to do so, if not, please inform me as to the correct place to post this question.
So, I am commissioning a new suit from my tailor for the first time in 10 years, a double breasted sack cut suit (a reproduction of a 1910 to 1920 Brooks Brothers model) in pure woolen cavalry gabardine of navy blue of 10-12 oz. I have been thinking upon it, and I want to have the jacket lined in ancient madder silk or similar, something with small neat figures or small repeating paisleys, in the red to maroon family of colors, the suit will be 1/4 lined and the waist-coat will be lined in this silk on it’s exterior back with discrete polished cotton or plain woven silk inside, or possibly bemberg rayon of viscose. So, does anyone have any idea of where I might source either some ancient madder silk yardage, or a similar foulard silk with small neats or figures to use as lining for my suit, as my tailor does not offer such lining options? It is a sentimental point for me, as my Father and Grandfather used to have such linings on many of their garments, but honestly I cannot afford my Grandfather’s old tailors and would feel strange contacting them just to source lining fabric, and my Father’s tailor is no longer in business.
Anyone, please inform where I can source such silk yardage for lining my suit in?! Thanks in advance for yr help and consideration in this matter!
Thanks Evan – I don’t know anywhere to source Madder in such small quantities, but if anyone else does, please do chip in.
Thanks Simon! I reached out to a local tailoring supply B. Black & Sons, but sad to say it, they did not even know what ancient madder was…..I attempted to contact The Andover Shop to see if they might have some suitable yardage that they would be willing to part with, but apparently the contact button on their email link does not work, at all. I might try to call them today. Aside from that, I’m trying to source some through vintage fabric dealers as well, though not much luck in that arena either. I guess I will have to wait and see. I hope someone has an idea. Even neat or small paisley silk foulard yardage would be acceptable.
Have a Great Day, Simon!
I’ve struck upon an idea! I am going to contact E. Marinella Napoli, and this other tie manufacturer out of England, I can’t remember their name at present, but I’ll find it when I get home. They were mentioned in Roetzel’s Gentlemen book as one of the main producers of traditional silken neckwear in England who made for most of the other sellers of such furnishings under those other furnishers’ house labels. If anyone would be able to supply or give a lead on ancient madder or foulard yardage in appropriate patterns and colors, it would be one of those two bodies, and I am leaning towards the English maker as a discrete crafter is likely to be less inflated in pricing than a known name seller in Italy what with the present cultural mark up and name cache. I’ll update!
Evan, I’m not sure that will work. Any weaver (eg Vanners) is only going to be able to supply in a certain volume, and any tiemaker is also not really set up to sell cloth to final consumers. You may be lucky, but bear in mind any company doing this is going out of their way to go through a process they don’t usually do and will make no money out of
Hi Simon, Hmm, good points, I hope that I can find lee-way amongst the bottom lines of sales and production……my saving hope in this, is that typically from my research, ancient madder is made up in relatively small batches, 12 yards or so at a time. At that point, even if I have to procure a larger amount of ancient madder than I might want just for this one project, I might be able to procure enough to perhaps line 2 or 3 suits, or a suit and a few ties. I do know how to make ties the way that Great-Grandma showed me, so it could work out being both beneficial to me, and enjoyable in an entirely different manner. My only other option might be to see if an old line tailor might be willing to sell me some of their yardage….Though that may be a dubious proposition. I know that both Chipp and the Andover Shop on the East Coast of the U.S. were known for producing suits and jackets with “adventurous” linings or tie silks. I suppose at this point it is a quest?….I am in search of the holy grail of suit linings. I just wish that my regular tailor had anything other than Oriental silks or jacquards or bemberg rayons for his linings…..I found some beautiful vintage fabrics though a dealer acquaintance of mine, but though the fabric was still listed, they informed me that it was sold out….
Hi Simon,
I’ve gotten at least 3 leads to manufacturers and purveyors or linings through friends of mine after I put out an “APB” for my goal, and I am going to be verifying them today during my down time! Very exciting! Somehow, I think that this will make the suit and its wearing much more satisfying as I will have done this work to furnish part of it! Perhaps if I can get enough, I might make myself a tie as well. Something amusing that most people would never see…..
Hi Simon,
I have a tobacco linen DB (my only one) suit. I frequently use the jacket separately. I would like a winter DB that has the same flexibility. Would a grey flannel (prince of Wales or plain) work as a separate jacket (with say charcoal trousers) or would it look like a suit jacket? What other fabrics, colours or patterns would you suggest for a winter / autumn DB suit for the jacket to work separately?
I don’t think flannel works as a separate jacket, no. I also don’t know a winter fabric that would work in that way – tweed is closest, but rarely makes good trousers.
Hi Simon,
Thanks for the answer. I agree that it’s hard to find a DB that can work both as a suit and a separate jacket in winter. What about corduroy? Or some heavy tweeds that can work as trousers.
Also in this post it looks like you’re wearing a grey DB with charcoal trousers. Isn’t it part of a suit? https://www.permanentstyle.com/2018/08/the-rules-and-how-to-break-them-8-button-a-db.html
It’s a problem with single-breasted jackets too.
But yes, corduroy or a tweed that could work as trousers would be good. It’s the denseness of the weave of the tweed, its hardness, not its weight that makes the difference by the way. Heavy materials can still be light and spongy.
And no, that jacket is not part of a suit – it too is too open and soft to make trousers
Dear sir Simon
I am going to order a bespoke double breasted overcoat. A bespoke suit is getting ready for the next days and will be reference for measuring my overcoat. But I would like to have some information about a detail which is not in the web. So I decided to ask you , grand maester in men’s wear.
Would you please telling me about the width or maybe length of fabric which goes along the other part of the fabric and that way we button up our jacket or overcoat to the second button.
Best regards
Ebi
Hi Ebi,
Sounds nice. Do you mean, how much do my DB overcoats overlap, at the waist button? Like the overlap measured on this piece about DB jackets?
Yes.
Actually I would like to know is there any rule or calculation for measuring overlap or not ? And what I’ve noticed in your great comparison is most of the time lapel width and overlap are equal.
Should we talk about classic or casual overlap or It is not considered as style.
(Is overlap width in your jacket based on inch ?)
Best regards
Overlap is usually measured from the centre of one button to the other.
Interesting point on that and lapel width often running in parallel, I hadn’t thought of that.
Yes, inches. Come on, you knew it wasn’t centimetres!
Another thing that I’ve noticed is that the operative button place and It’s opposite are parallel with lapel gorge. By the way If we draw a line from the gorge down to the button place we can find the correct position of buttons.
Am I right Maester ?
No I wouldn’t read as much into that. Depth of gorge isn’t much of a style point, certainly compared to width of buttons
Hi Simon
Refer from your articles for English drape cut SB suit there are three houses A&S,Steven Hitchcock,Whitcomb shaftesbury and your choice is Steven.I would like to know how is it different in DB Suit of these houses and your choice?
Hi there,
Personally, I would go with A&S, but I should say that on the one hand I haven’t tried a DB from either Whitcomb or Steven. On the other hand, the reason I haven’t is that I love the A&S style so much!
Dear Simon,
I am starting to consider a double breasted suit for my wedding.
I’m at the beginning of the journey, but I guess I wondered if you had any insight into which house style might be most appropriate for a suit to be married in, in England, in Summer. A few thoughts I had – would a soft shouldered Italian be too informal perhaps? Sexton a bit dandyish? My day to day life does not really involve suits so Henry Poole would feel a bit out of character for me. Trying to find a middle ground… my first though was Gieves , but that seems potentially out of my price bracket.. it would certainly be a big stretch and perhaps inappropriately far more expensive than the Brides dress. Any thoughts on options to maybe hone in on, would be appreciated.
Hope you had a wonderful Christmas.
Hi Chris,
I realise now you’ve already seen this post!
I think Sexton might be a little over the top, yes. I don’t think Neapolitan would be too casual, no.
You might also want to consider this suit – one of the best wedding pieces I’ve seen.
Also, keep in mind there is a wedding section to the PS site
S
Hi Chris, I suspect only you can decide what is too formal, informal or dandyish! Perhaps the best way to help you decide is to look at the style of each tailor though and then decide which one speaks to you the most? I started by looking primarily at the quality of the finishing (and the price) but I think picking on style is a better way to narrow down choices at the beginning.
I’d suggest looking at the instagram accounts of the tailors that you’re interested in to help you realise what you like. Some tailors may also have RTW that reflects the house style (at least a little) and that might also help.
I’d also suggest that you consider who you can see easily if you’re aiming to have the suit this summer. The first suit is always the most complex to produce and it might be harder than usual to organise the fittings that you want. (I’ve no experience of remote fittings, although I think some tailors have investigated this?)
Whatever you decide, I’m sure you will look fabulous and hope you all have a magnificent day!
Nice advice MB, thanks for adding it
Funny enough I am going through a similar process, though I think I’ve settled on a tux (it will be an evening wedding).
I think I’ve come to it from the approach of 1) it is my day as much as my fiancee’s, 2) I want something to speaks to who I am (which means if your subtle be subtle, if you like something dramatic get something dramatic etc…..all within reason of course), 3) I do wear a suit for work (or will certainly still have to once things are normal) and would like it to be different enough that I won’t be tempted to wear it into the ground.
All of that has meant doing exactly as MB has suggested. Viewing Instagram for different tailors, considering who I can or cannot easily see, what I can afford, etc. I’ve settled on “bespoke” (really MTM with one basted fitting) from Divij Bespoke (MyTailor.com) – likely a very dark, midnight navy, single breasted tux with a well structured and roped (but not overly dramatic) shoulder. Only question in my mind is whether I do “dinner cuffs” – I lean yes, but welcome opinions.
SIDE NOTE: My fiancee’s dress will likely be made by her mother or one of a handful of simple bride’s dresses she’s seen for about $1500 – and any time I speak to my fiancee about maybe doing a suit since I can wear it more often than a tux (making the cost per wear lower even at a slightly higher price), she responds by saying she prefers a tux because she knows “I’d enjoy and look good,” even if it will be more expensive, per wear.
Sorry to refer back to such an old thread but wondering if the wider wrapped jackets (eg: the Caraceni) have the placed buttons closer to the pockets or if the pockets are cut closer to your back side? Notice that the wider wrap jackets tend to have the buttons arranged in a rectangle vs a square as well, presumably to keep the buttoning point for the top button from being too high. There seems to be a world of difference as to the placement of side pockets and the bottom row of buttons on DBs between different tailors.
No worries Leo – all articles are meant to be for ongoing reference. They never die!
With the pockets, it’s both. When the space between buttons and side seam is reduced, the pocket is balanced between the two in the same way – the same proportions – as when the buttons are closer together. You just maintain the balance.
With the top set of buttons, yes these will often look closer together when the ones below them are further apart. But it’s not a rectangle – the top set are always further apart than the others. Otherwise it looks like a naval blazer.
Thanks Simon! Re: button spacing, sorry I was referring to the middle and bottom buttons sometimes being a rectangle vs a square. Notice any difference between tailors as to bottom button placement and pocket height/jacket length? Sometimes I see DBs with the bottom row aligned with the pockets and sometimes the pockets are in the middle, have even seen a 6×2 with the bottom buttons ever so slightly above the pocket line yet all still looked in proportion. It’s an odd thing to obsess over I admit but think it makes a big visual impact and can’t tell which I prefer.
I see, sorry. I do think it’s a small thing – the important thing is whether you think the parts are in balance, and if you like the overall style. It’s risky tinkering with just one part of it
Simon, what are your thoughts on having a ticket pocket on a double-breasted navy blazer? Thank you!
It will be fairly subtle, so not a huge decision, but personally I would avoid it. There’s already enough going on with a DB – you don’t need it
I have just come over from the New black bullskin tote, and angled DBs, and now that you have pointed it out, the A&S Double Breasted looks fantastic with that angled edge. It really adds something to the jacket. I also noted that the Button stance on the two English jackets is lower than the others, is this normal?
Oh good.
It’s normal for those two makers, yes, though I wouldn’t say it’s universal across English makers compared to others
Simon,
When or how do you decide when a fabric would make up well a double-breasted sports jacket? What are some of the criteria makes the cloth appropriate to make up as a DB SJ?
Thank you.
I wouldn’t say there is anything specific about a cloth that makes it good for a DB SJ rather than an SB. There’s an argument a DB is more formal, but actually it looks just as good in linen, cotton or cord.
Perhaps one thing would be that you don’t want a very thick material, which would be bulky in that wrap. Or that a hairy tweed would be too casual (and perhaps thick as well)