Not everyone likes flannels. They can bag a bit, at least more than the worsteds guys are used to wearing to the office. That just means a press now and again, but hey some people are very lazy busy.
If flannels aren’t an option, and it’s too cold for high-twists, men can be at a bit of a loss for what smart trousers to wear with their tailored jackets. They often turn to things like whipcord, covert or cavalry twill.
But these are quite niche categories. Cav twill is a tight twill with a double line rather than a single - which isn’t necessarily what people want. What they’re actually striving for is a broader category of cloth that doesn’t have a name: worsted trouser fabric that doesn’t feel part of a suit.
Readers often ask about this. So many articles like this come from repeated inquiries. The question is basically: “I don’t like flannel; what else should I wear with my jacket that’s sharp but doesn’t look half of my old suit?”
This type of cloth does exist, but it doesn’t have a common label, a tag. Language is often like that - it’s rarely the kind of cohesive, consistent taxonomy you get with an area of scientific study, for example. It’s usually a mess of industry terms and common usage, constantly evolving with the needs of the speakers.
If there were to be a taxonomic rank of cloth, it might be something like:
- Fibre: wool (mostly anyway)
- Fineness: not super fine (too shiny) or super coarse (too hairy)
- Yarn: worsted (not woollen)
- Weave: twill (probably; it’s the densest)
- Finish: Not milled (like flannel is) or super pressed (shiny)
- Weight: Heavier (otherwise we go to high-twists)
I used to have a pair of trousers like this; Elia Caliendo made them in 2012. They were a charcoal twill from Zegna if I recall. Sometimes readers would ask about them, or ask what I would wear for this kind of trouser, and I’d refer to them.
But I wouldn’t have a name. Perhaps we could create one - the Non-Suit Worsted (NSW). If anyone has the reach to make a term common enough to enter the language, it’s Permanent Style. But still I doubt it will.
And that name isn’t that good, as it implies the cloth can’t be used for a suit, when it can - it’s just that it can also be used as a separate trouser. Any other suggestions that aren’t unusably complicated, do let me know.
Anyway.
The point of this is that I do have a cloth of this type to recommend, having recently replaced those Caliendo trousers.
In the photo above are three worsted-wool bunches. Left to right they are:
- Universal from Harrison’s
- Botany from Smith’s
- Oyster from Harrison’s
- And out of shot, Classic Worsteds from Holland & Sherry*
These represent a rough spectrum of coarseness and finish. Classic Worsteds is lighter, finer and has more of a press, feeling very much like a suit fabric. My suit below from Whitcomb was made in it.
At the other end of the spectrum Universal is heavier, coarser and less pressed. You could definitely make a suit out of it, and historically it was the kind of thing that was commonly used, but it’s not associated with suits today, which tend to be lighter, smoother, shinier.
I used Universal for my trousers (74202), and it’s worked out well. That’s them below, made up by Whitcomb & Shaftesbury, worn with my Ciardi jacket in Anglo-Italian cloth, Yohei Fukuda shoes, a PS Yellow Oxford and PS Bullskin Tote.
Universal is not light - it’s 15/16 ounce. But it doesn’t really feel that heavy. You can always wear more weight on the legs than on the torso, and the smoothness of worsteds means they feel cooler than tweeds or flannels.
There is a necessary connection between weight and this type of cloth. Heavier cloths tend to produce a coarser finish, which is what you want - it gives texture without the milling of flannel. The amount of press then pushes that texture down or doesn’t.
I should also give credit to Manish, who had a pair of trousers made up in this material - in black, at Bryceland’s 0- and it was admiring them that led me down this rabbit hole. I think he’ll cover the Bryceland’s MTO trousers offering at a later date.
I’d recommend this type of material to all those readers that have asked. There’s nothing wrong with whipcord, cavalry twill or covert cloth, but often it will have colour variation you don’t want, or few business/city/formal colours. These are all suiting bunches, and the range of colours and patterns reflects that.
There are some other options worth mentioning too. I’ve never really liked worsted flannel, because it’s usually designed to be a lightweight version of flannel and as a result loses most of the characteristics (the combination of softness and body) that make flannel appealing in the first place.
But, if worsted flannel is the same weight as woollen (normal) flannel, it can actually be a nice option, as it’s similar to flannel but not as textured and harder wearing. Fox has a nice 12/13oz option that I had made last year and included in my page of favourite Fox fabrics.
Let everyone know if you’d had something made in this area that you like, though. I’ve only had a couple of pairs in the past 12 years, so it’s hardly a wide experience.
What have you used that works well?
If you’d like more explanation of any terms in this article, have a look at The Guide to Cloth
*Classic Worsteds has recently been discontinued as a bunch. The closest from H&S would be the City of London bunch
Interesting. I think I have a pair of Rota trousers in dark grey made from a material like that that I bought on YOOX (so not entirely sure). I actually wanted flannels but the description on YOOX is so bad that I got a surprise here.
They have less weight than my Cavallry Twills, but not much. In terms of appearance, they look the same – including colour – as the trousers in the first two photos above.
I don’t wear them very often though and prefer the Flannels or Cavallry Twills I have, which have more texture and seem more robust to me.
I have a trouser made in a very similar fabric and I wear it all the time, so much so I am thinking of ordering another. Mine are from a vintage cut (not sure which mill) that Nicoletta Caraceni had and they are the first trousers she recommended to me when I asked for something to wear with a jacket. It turned out to be a very good recommendation. For me the great utility of this type of trouser is that they can be used for more of the year than flannels.
Good point Andrew
They look like the trousers we all used to wear to high school in the South Island of New Zealand. I loved those trousers.
One other thing, I definitely concur on your choice of Universal. I know all of the bunches you mentioned and I think there is a risk that trousers made up from Botany and Oyster look too much like orphaned suit trousers. Both are really great bunches for worsted suits, but I wouldn’t use them for a separate trouser.
I can agree with that as I have some of these sample clothes to prove it.
Simon, I believe that you have beautifully filled a gap in trouser clothes as I’m not a big fan of flannel because of bagging at the knees and the like.
Also, I prefer separates rather than a suit, because of more versatility of mix and match of trousers, jacket and shirt and tie.
I like strong and fairly durable cloth and although I like cavalry twill, whipcord which are great, they can be rather warm, even in Winter. Maybe an option in Harrison’s Universal would fit the bill or one of the other’s aforementioned.
That beautiful jacket… is that prince of wales from the glorious Fox’s tweed bunch, it’s very nice indeed!
Thanks Lindsay. No it’s an Anglo-Italian cloth, made by Ciardi
Interesting
Sorry for my ignorance – what do you mean by “bagging at the knees”. I refer to this picture of Simon from the look book and couldn’t see the issue? Many thanks in advance.
Over time some fabrics stretch out at the knees – leaving a ‘bag’ of knee shaped fabric. It’s very common with cotton pants like jeans and chinos. And less so with worsted wool ‘suit’ pants. Flannels can have this problem – I’ve found looser cut trousers tend to have a lower likelihood of doing this.
Hi Alex,
I should have clarified, if you read the beginning of the article, it alludes to flannel bagging generally and needing more frequent pressing.
I have one pair of trousers made from W.Bill Whipcords & Cavalry Twills made by Steed Bespoke and they have yet to need pressing, very rugged durable trousers even at 12oz and I am superbly impressed with them.
The Universal bunch sounds interesting also as mentioned in the article.
Look at the Holland & Sherry Seasonal Classics (successor to the Dakota bunch) or the Dugdale Invincible bunch for good rugged trouser cloths.
For Summer:- Holland &Sherry Airesco – I have a light mid grey pair and they are fantastic. Drapers Ascot bunch is a beautiful Summer cloth also.
I hope I’ve helped you….and others also!
I’m open to any corrections if I’m wrong!!
Alex, I forgot to add, and others can correct me here if I’m wrong but flannel is not happy with wet weather and will definitely need pressing afterwards …which puts me off flannel somewhat.
That will happen with a lot of wools, but you’re right Lindsay it’s more of a problem with softer and lighter wools – flannel is softer
Hello Lindsay and Simon. Thank you for providing this helpful guidance. I appreciate it.
Simon – in a previous article (if you only had five smart pairs of trousers), grey flannels occupied the top spot and charcoal or dark brown occupied the second spot. Now, would you be proposing NSW for one such pair instead, or does it all come down to whether you like flannels or not?
Whether you like flannels or not
Good to know…thanks for that.
I always love the fabric articles. My trousers are generally heavier high twists (Spring Ram, Ascot six ply). In London, I find these are wearable about nine months of the year. The Spring Ram in particular has a lovely matte finish which looks quite un-suit like when on its own, especially in mid/pale grey or olive.
Dugdale Fearnought or Invincible could also be good options here, if you’re not afraid of weight.
Separately – that W&S suit is beautiful. I know we all love Neapolitan, super soft tailoring these days, but it’s nice to be reminded of the quiet elegance of a really good English suit.
I am having a Trouser made up in Dugdale Fearnought.
An old school, slightly marled heavy twill.
Could be good.
Hi Johannes,
Quite interesting. Would you care to share the end product and your impressions after wearing it? Also woudl be interested in the code of the cloth.
Thanks!
I have a few swatches of Fearnought and seems a nice cloth also.
Simon do you take flannel trousers etc into a dry cleaners for pressing, or do it yourself at home?
Myself at home. There is a video here with some basics on doing it
While noting the subjective element, given the Universal fabric has a coarser finish, does it risk falling into the “itchy” category?
No it doesn’t, being worsted it’s smoother than that
I have just made up a pair of charcoal Thornproof (Porter &Harding) which I’m finding to be a really nice alternative to flannels, with enough textile to go with knitwear too.
My main driver to avoid flannels in this instance is that I commute my bike in London, and the cost of good clothes now is such that I couldn’t really justify a pair of flannels that i know would perish in perhaps 12 months.
Thornproof is a rugged cloth and I’m very tempted to get a pair in the Charcoal shade one day!
Are there any plans to re-release the yellow PS oxford?
Yes. We’re releasing some new colours soon, and then the yellow should be back in the next update after that
“Worsted Separates”?
Yes I guess that’s pretty close
Simon, I note that again you are wearing a belt. Does this mean we are now past ‘Peak Side Fasteners’ ?
It depends where you’re looking (I’m not sure most of the world noticed the rise and fall) but in the menswear world, yes I think so.
See article here ‘why I’m wearing more belts‘ from a couple of years ago if you haven’t seen it
Personally I always had a penchant for a belt.
That said, don’t you think trousers are best left uncuffed with a belt ?
No, I think it can look good either way
I think we’ve also passed ‘Peak Cuff’ – with a belt they just don’t look right.
Would you say that trousers in this material would work in different colours as well? I’m thinking beige/light brown, dark brown and olive.
I’m less sure about beige, but the others certainly
Hi Simon, would you say that the charcoal trousers made up from the Universal bunch look smarter than charcoal flannels? Would it be fair to say that they’re closer to cavalry twill or whipcord in terms of formality?
Many thanks,
Jack
Yes
Imagine this will be a very well timed article for a lot of people. Many thanks for sharing cloth options Simon – appreciate that you’ve only gone down this rabbit hole recenty, but I was wondering if there was anything you’ve seen that’s close to Charbrown flannel / or a cold dark brown?
I haven’t really looked for that Michael, no. Do shout if you see anything yourself
I’ve actually had two 3-piece suits made up in Harrson’s Universal. It isn’t as smooth as other worsteds, but otherwise, I really like the drape of the heavier material and will likely do more suits in it. To the concerns about heat and scratchiness, it hasn’t been an issue. It is only subtly more hairy than other worsteds, and I’ve managed to wear the suit in the summer heat for short periods (< 30 minutes) without problem.
As a taior myself, I agree on all counts. I think this is a great recomendation that readers will find usefull. These are the same I both wear and recomend to clients. Would also add Harrisons Fine Classics to the mix.
Not to be controversial but I do want to ask: what’s wrong with trousers looking like they’re part of a suit?
My problem is only shine, wear, and tear if they happen to be light worsteds. But other than that I see no shame/problem here. I do like more texture on my spearate trousers than I wear on my suits, like cav. twill, but that’s a different issue.
What’s your take Simon?
Well, you want trousers that aren’t being worn as a suit, to not look as though they should be. Otherwise it looks like you’ve done something wrong. Does that make sense?
I am rather lazy but I do air out my jackets and trousers after each wearing. The trousers especially flannel ones are then placed in a Corby pants presser before the suit is put away. The next time I wear these items I will hang them in the bathroom when I take my morning shower which lightly steams out any remaining wrinkles. It is not that much effort even for a lazy guy like me and saves me a lot of money in pressing and dry cleaning costs.
Excellent article as it hits all the right notes for my cooler weather issues. Tailoring is necessary for me 2-3 days a week, but smart trousers are a must all week.
My stalwarts for years have been the usual flannels and Calvary/whipcords. More often than not, the denser twills happen to be too warm for indoor work environments.
My go tos: Stoffa does a pressed flannel with excellent drape. Yes it’s a flannel, but I haven’t had bagging issues. Rota offers 4ply wools with characteristics as noted above, and I just placed an order for a brown pair at the armoury last week. I have a few in I think 6ply spring ram which are excellent and usable in NY for about 5 months of the year.
Another characteristic I’ve considered is how to detail/finish dress trousers to make it obvious they’re not meant to be worn with a suit. Obviously not with something like cargo pockets but perhaps an integrated belt like on my Pommella’s.
Fantastic article as always especially since flannel isn’t always what people want but need.
Another question, what is your take on doeskin wool as it has been utilised heavily in naval tradition.
I don’t know that cloth very wool, but my impression is that in most weights it wouldn’t be so good for trousers, being softer. The military uses were probably in quite heavy and dense versions
Everyday Worsted: simple and emphasizes the idea of a worsted cloth that’s not necessarily just for suit trousers? Or maybe Universal Worsted, suggesting adaptability for multiple uses?
Good brand names, but I don’t think they really get across the fact that this works so well for separates rather than just a suit?
I agree, but surely any term you coin would come to mean what it means by a process of general acceptance? It’s rare for terms of art to denote precisely what something is, while simultaneously excluding everything that it is isn’t, _solely_ on the internal logic of their names. (Sport coat, brogues, bomber jacket, Oxford shirt, derbies…) I suppose you get this in math and science — polygon, bipedal, etc. But even there, neologisms that attempt to do this tend to be monstrous. Maybe, tongue firmly in cheek, we can call such a term an “autoexclusive definitive lexeme.” I’m reminded of some book (can’t remember which) of Richard Dawkins where he tried to convey the idea that natural selection can bring about seemingly improbable adaptations by allowing countless variations to be tested over generations. The events that result in evolutionary advantages may seem random or rare, but they emerge because there are enough opportunities for them to occur and be selected for. Basically, tiny probability times massive denominator = nonzero numerator. He coined the term PETWHAC for this, for “population of events that would have appeared coincidental,” and (to me) he looked silly having to repeatedly refer to the PETWHAC whenever he wanted to invoke that concept later. It was a literal description — autoexclusive definitive lexeme — but hardly an idiomatic one!
Whatever term you coin, please don’t get PETWHACked.
Thanks.
That certainly does happen with terms, but as I mention in the piece, I don’t think we’re going to get anything broadly used by tailors or others, so it has to be more descriptive
Seems to me this is a solution in search of a problem. When the temperature drops, there’s nothing nicer than a pair of flannel trousers. And now that dress codes have gotten looser, flannels and sports coat with or without tie are fine for most professional situations.
Of course, there are situations when more formality is required (court room appearances, weddings, formal events), but in such circumstances, you’re probably going to need to wear a full suit rather than separates, and swapping flannel trousers for ones that are slightly “sharper” isn’t going to move the needle.
It’s not about the formality of flannels, it’s about the fact some people don’t like flannels
I’d say that it really does depend on your office too. Going back a while to Manish’s early Reader Profile sometimes dressing in between formal and casual is harder to pull off / can stand out more. I’d personally see the benefit of a flannel alternative for that reason.
Yes, true
What’s your view on H Lesser 13oz?
You mean the No.303 bunch? I haven’t looked at it in a while, but from what I recall it’s a more straightforward suit-worsted bunch
Very useful article! I actually think that you have also lodged an indirect indictment of contemporary suit fabrics here.
The fabrics you cover in this article were, perhaps until 30 years ago, a central pillar of suiting fabrics but they were ‘discarded’ by the industry due to their unfashionable weight and finish.
So setting aside fabric ‘engineering’ limitations (inability to maintain shape)- the article presents a very interesting question: is there anything intrinsic in these fabrics that makes them a good fit for trousers apart from simply being different from ‘conventional’ suiting?
The inverse question would be: can’t trousers work well as separates and as part of a suit so long they are not made from fine and well-pressed fabrics?
And finally: would that mean that a permanent style reader is better off building a wardrobe today with suits from fabrics that could pass in an office environment but could also be ‘broken apart’?
Sorry, but this article got me thinking!
No worries
– Yes, there are certainly performance aspects that this kind of heavier, coarser worsted does better
– Yes that type can also work very well as as suit, it just doesn’t have that kind of contemporary look, as I think you’re alluding to
– Yes that could work well for a reader, though keep in mind that I’m not saying the jackets of these suits could be worn on their own
Thanks!
If someone asked me today how to begin building a bespoke wardrobe I think I personally would recommend commissioning a suit that could be broken apart and worn as separates- even if it ‘compromised’ the suit itself.
I would suggest a more ‘casual’ dark navy fabric and suggest adding stying elements that make it more casual as well.
This might be a controversial take- after all you might want a ‘perfect’ garment when you go bespoke- but ultimately I think you will get to wear it (or parts of it) more often.
Anyway- you got me thinking!
Thanks Shaoul
This is a topic we have talked about a lot over the years, and a lot of readers like that idea (understandably). In my experience though, it’s very hard to do with a remotely smart material – some hopsacks are the best, but otherwise it’s only things like linens and cottons. I generally advise against it because readers often end up with jackets that don’t really work on their own, even with casual details
Yes- it will be compromised for sure. Hopsack with patch pockets and horn buttons would probably be my recommendation. The exact shade of navy will matter as well.
Quite a useful article for me, I think I’ll have a pair like yours very high on my priority list. In my part of the world flannels and cavalry twill are quite exotic and wearing them can throw people off in some situations so trousers that look a bit more like regular worsteds will come in handy.
About the name Non-Suit Worsted – it’s a bit awkward and possibly confusing. How about just “heavy worsteds” it’s a bit all encompassing but could work as general term and more specific depending on context.
What do you think of Fox’s City fabric? I was at The Armoury downtown, and Alex had recommended that bunch as an effective replacement for flannels, especially in heated offices.
Subsequently, do you think this newly coined subcategory of trouser fabric lends itself well to non-jacketed outfits? I don’t really wear jackets, primarily shirts/knitwear. so my flannels and textured high twist (Standeven Explorer bunch) is casual enough to not look out of place.
Fox City is nice but a little bit more of a suit fabric I think.
Without jackets, these trosuers are great, just a little smarter – they would work well in the way you describe though
Lovely article, personality i adore flannel but having more options is always great!
If you don’t mind me asking; What’s the width of the hem of your trousers? In the last picture they seem a tad wider than your usual 19-20 cm (if I recall correctly)?
I’m at 20cm usually today and that’s what those are
Interesting article. Simon – any sense of whether this kind of fabric is available in any RTW trousers? Or poss MTM?
Good question. I don’t actually, sorry. Do tell us if you find it being offered anywhere!
Something like this perhaps?
https://natalino.co/products/single-pleat-trouser-charcoal-grey-twill-wool
Though I think I detect some milling on that cloth so perhaps it doesn’t quite fit the bill.
Ah yes, that looks good. Hard to say precisely without seeing it in person, but looks like a good candidate
I propose “lounge worsteds”, as they are to worsteds what lounge suits are to business suits.
I also like Universal worsteds as a brand name that could become the category name.
I have a pair in Loro Piana ‘The Smarter’ s150s 460g wool ‘denim’ in the biscuit color. The cloth is nothing like denim. It is definitely moreso in the ‘smart but not a suit trouser’ category. That said I cant remember if it comes in grey. From memory there were a few shades of blue, white, dark brown, biscuit, possibly black and maybe a grey.
I have a pair in the grey so that is an option. For the grey and blue the denim effect is probably more pronounced with the white weft creating more contrast, and makes it slightly less formal than a flannel.
I found a few pictures of it here.
These cloths are very nice, but they do have a suit look to them. A more old-fashioned suit look. Then again, flannel is an equally old-fashioned suiting too that also is ideal for trousers. This is probably as neutral of a wool as can be found. A basic worsted serge. I have trousers like this, but I do find it dull. It’s just short of being too formal to not work as separate trousers, but I think that a cloth with more character like a fine whipcord does a better job at the same thing.
Hi Simon. I see that you are wearing black oxfords with this outfit. Wouldn’t you say that black oxfords are borderline too formal for this outfit (OCBD and brown sport coat).
Or would you say you are wearing this specifically because the trousers you are showcasing here is too dark for brown shoes to come into play?
I think they are borderline, you’re right, but it’s OK. If the shirt were blue, if the jacket were tweedier in texture, they would be too smart
Semi-related…
I’m having trouble accessing the “Trousers and what they go with: A sliding scale of formality” article. Seems to be an issue with that specific URL – perhaps a broken link?
https://www.permanentstyle.com/2022/09/trousers-and-what-they-go-with-a-sliding-scale-of-formality.html
How strange. That did happen once in the past. I’ll have a look into it
Seems to only be an issue on my iPhone (via Safari). I can access the article on my Mac.
Me too
Glad to see praise for Harrison’s Universal, one of the few bunches left with a good weight.
I would suggest taking a look at Dugdale’s Fearnought and Invincible bunches, the solid twills, twist serge, woolen and worsted twist can pair well with a navy blazer in 18oz hopsack (Fearnought), cav twill (Invincible), or a substantial tweed (min 18 oz like Fox tweed).
Fox also has 3 “Worsted Flannels” in 14-15oz, the charcoal makes a good trouser.
Another option is AW Hainsworth True Heritage, the greys and khakis make a strong, substantial trouser that holds a sharp crease and pairs well with a d-b blazer in Hainsworth cav twill at 660 gram per meter.
A comment on flannels — Holland and Sherry still have a handful of flannels in 18-19 oz, and the greys make a nice trouser that does not bag like the lighter weights.
I have not tried the “True Authentic Flannel” from Fox, but it looks good (there was a heavy bunch I liked at Fox, I forget if it was called “Heritage” or “Vintage,” but it had a good 18oz or so weight and maybe the “authentic flannel” replaces it?).
Yes, the Authentic Flannel is meant as a replacement for that. I have the Heritage one and it is great, strong and drapes well, but I’d say it’s too heavy for much of the year.
I vote for “hybrid cloth”. A citizen of two cities so to speak.
One of my favorite trouser, made by Lanificio Fedora fabric. It’s easy to care,without oftenly ironing can still hold the shape very well.
I wear it with my navy blazer. Thanks for the texture, it works fine as seperated trouser, I think.
But I’m going to have a jacket in the same fabric, make it can be a suit.
That does look like it has some texture, more as a summer weight perhaps. On getting a jacket in the same fabric, be careful because often fabrics are not exactly the same from piece to piece
I think the weight is not as heavy as yours,yes .It’s great for tropical fall and winter season(average tempeture is 15 to 24 degrees Celsius).
Thanks for your friendly reminder.
My tailor has the same bunch of the fabric, will it still be a problem?.
Here is the first fitting of my new jacket.
It’s not really the bunch that’s the issue, it’s whether the mill still has the same ‘piece’ (60m) as the trousers were made from.
It might well be fine, but that’s the only way to be absolutely sure
Oops, I might be should call it the same bundle? Sorry for the wrong term.
After made the trouser for me, my tailor still has the fabric, that he bought it at same time.
I can’t express it accurately in English,sorry.
Ah I see…. in that case no problem at all
Simon, aside from the weight, how do you think Smith’s Botany compares to the now defunct Smith’s Blue Riband? I have a suit in the latter, with a second on the way, ordered with the last of the stock – it’s one of my favorite fabrics.
I couldn’t say I’m afraid Craig, I haven’t used Botany for a very long time and haven’t used Blue Riband
I’m not understanding this:
“They often turn to things like whipcord, covert or cavalry twill.
But these are quite niche categories. Cav twill is a tight twill with a double line rather than a single – which isn’t necessarily what people want. What they’re actually striving for is a broader category of cloth that doesn’t have a name: worsted trouser fabric that doesn’t feel part of a suit. ”
What is it about whipcord, covert, or cav twill that people don’t necessarily want? Is it that they feel part of a suit? Because I don’t think they do–the texture that you describe in the previous sentence helps to avoid the appearance of a suit. Is it that they are too “niche?” I’m not sure I understand that point. To me, whipcord, covert, or cav twill seem like the perfect solution for someone who wants a heavy odd trouser that’s sharper than flannel.
There’s a few things:
– Cav twill has that prominent double line, which isn’t necessarily what people want when they just want an everyday trouser
– Covert often comes in more country colours, and even when it’s in charcoal, has flecks in there or variation, which again is not what people necessarily want
And overall people want a whole bunch of very office-type colours, which whipcord and covert etc don’t always have
Got it. I’m a big fan of cav twill in particular but I can understand these points.
Ah nice, pleased I could get that across. It’s not a big thing, but a lot of readers do ask about what they can wear apart from flannel for these kinds of uses, and cav twill is a pretty narrow answer
Is the risk of suit trousers only a problem with wool trousers or does heavy weight linen trousers also risk looking like that?
I have commissioned a high twist charcoal wool trousers. I have attached an image of it. It looks okay with my knitted polos but as soon as I wear it with a shirt as can be seen in the image without a jacket it just looks a bit off or tired, I don’t know how to describe it but it just feels flat. When I wear the same shirt with my olive linen trousers the outfit in totality feels so much coherent. Is that the problem you say happens when you say that suit trousers doesn’t look good on its own where something doesn’t feel great or feels flat?
It doesn’t really apply to linen, and I think your issue here is not related to what we’re discussing, more the fact that you probably don’t like this type of trouser material that much – the flat, textured nature of a high-twist perhaps
how about ‘flustered’ not quite flannel, not a straight worsted, and it’s a little bit confusing to get across. And then you can avoid becoming flustered when picking out separate trousers?
Nice! My favourite
SOTO? (Suit Or Trouser Only)
Or to be more technically descriptive, SOTOW? (Suit Or Trouser Only, Worsted)
I like it
Where do you think the weight tipping point is for these to be advisable as possibly “trouser only” cloth? 13 oz? Or is it more about texture than merely weight?
Also, do you think these could stand up to cycle commuting? I ride about 25 minutes each way to and from work and I’m wondering if this type of trouser could handle it.
Thanks very much for this very useful article.
So you mean, is that the tipping point below which the cloth starts to look too smooth?
It’s about texture as well, not just weight. It’s just that you tend to get more texture with this as you go heavier, as the yarn is often coarser. I’d go off the texture you can see in cloths you’re looking at, rather than just weight.
On cycling, it’s hard. This will stand up better than almost anything. Some cav twills or whipcords might be better still. But trousers worn for cycling are never going to last as long as ones that are not. It’s just so much friction – and moisture, wool in general is so much weaker when it’s wet.
If you do wear them to cycle, never do so two days in a row, so the wool can fully dry out
On trousers and their possible combinations. I know these are fine margins but I would love some advice on formality, please.
I am quite confident a smooth cashmere sweater might combine well with cavalry twill trousers and the likes presented in this article, but how about a shetland or cricket sweater? Would those feel more at home with flannel trousers? Or more casual materials like corduroy and jeans only?
I think most of this is intuitive, once you know that finer things, more luxurious looking things, less textured things, look more casual. Both of those sweaters could be fine with cav twills, they’re not that different, but I think you might find you prefer something that is a little more smooth
I’m having a pair of trousers made for me now in Fox Worsted Flannel, in charcoal grey in the same fabric I think you link to above. I have high hopes and certainly both the colour and weight/ feel on the bunch seem to bode well as something I can wear in both the warmer and cooler seasons of the British year.
Hello Simon.
Really love these kinds of articals.
The bunch on the top picture, is not mentioned.
If you can remember, would like to share its name? I can see that it is from Dugdale bros & co.
Best regards,
Christian.
I can’t remember I’m afraid, but I’m not sure it’s relevant, as it’s one I decided not to include as not being useful here
Obviously, this type of cloth should be known as “Crompton”. As in, “I just had a pair of trousers made up in a lovely Crompton.” Or possibly lower-case.
Apart from the fact it suggests I’ve been skinned and tanned, to make leather for the greater good of menswear, I love it
Hi Simon,
May I ask what belt you are wearing?
Alligator from Rubato. They’re not currently available I don’t think, but they said they were planning on bringing them back at some point
Why not gabardine? Is that not the fabric you’re describing? They add more weight to a standard fine worsted for cooler weather, but they’re less textured than a cavalry twill. I have pairs in gray and tan that I use for separates during fall and winter and I think they fit the bill perfectly for what you seek.
Gabardine is more a subset of this, I’d say. It tends to be a little sharper and shinier than some would want, but it definitely falls into this area