Reviving the navy chalk-stripe suit: Ciardi DB in Fox collab cloth
In the past few months on Permanent Style, we’ve shown a few outfits that are a little more unusual than perhaps typical: a notch or two further along the subtle/showy scale.
The Art du Lin suit at Pitti probably falls into that category, as does this evening outfit with Bucherer. Both are stylish ways to wear tailoring, but they’re not really office wear - and not everyday clothing at all for most people.
One reason is that I’m interested how tailoring can find a new outlet as evening or occasion-wear - times when you have an excuse, if not necessarily a need, to dress up. As fewer and fewer people wear suits to work, this feels like one of tailoring’s biggest opportunities. It’s something we touched on last year looking at cocktail attire.
A nice aspect of this trend is that it can give traditional materials a new lease of life. A mohair or solaro suit has long been too unusual for most people day-to-day, but when you want something just that little bit unusual, they become relevant again.
For me, chalk-stripe flannel falls into that category. It hasn’t been common in business clothing for a long time, but it remains a beautiful heritage cloth. Wearing it as an elegant option in the evening is a great way to revive it.
That was one reason I wanted to make a navy chalk-stripe flannel with Fox Brothers - one of three collaboration cloths we launched earlier this month.
For me, this suit is something I’lll wear regularly in the autumn and winter, much as I already wear my brown single-breasted chalk stripe. But I’m a menswear writer poncing around Mayfair. I’m not the typical reader.
More readers, I think, will find it useful when they want to wear a suit to an event or dinner party and a navy business suit seems, well, too business. This chalk stripe, particularly in a double-breasted cut, feels far removed from the office today, and it suits being worn with less corporate things as well.
Examples of these things are the tops I've shown it with above: a heavy western shirt from Husbands and a black collared knit (the PS Dartmoor).
I particularly like the look with denim, as the dense Fox flannel has many things in common with that robust cotton. The jacket could almost function as a coat here, and I think I’ll often wear it this way in the winter - flannel suit and denim shirt, with options of vest, scarf and hat to layer for the weather.
I’ve also tried the suit with my Bryceland’s sawtooth westerner in a dark denim, and that’s a great combination, perhaps even better than the pale blue. They’re all good with a belt too, in fact I should probably have worn one of my Ludens belts with this outfit, as an extra point of interest.
That blue denim shirt can create - for me - also a day-in-town outfit. The black knit above, however, is something I’d probably keep for evening.
I love black knits under tailoring - it’s something I showed last year with my brown chalk stripe, and with that Art du Lin in the summer. I wasn’t sure it would work as well with navy, but as I deliberately picked with the darkest of navy flannels - something Fox didn’t already offer as a chalk stripe - it seems to work well with black.
And the chalk stripe does look great with a regular and tie, if you want to wear it that way (below). I like a thinner stripe for the shirt, and then a block of dark colour for the tie. It’s a long time since I’ve talked about things like density of pattern, but they haven't stopped being true.
The shirt is my old blue/white cotton/linen from 100 Hands, and the tie a black knitted silk.
Other things the navy chalk stripe looks great with are beaten-up caps, for a bit of high/low feeling (below) and pops of complimentary colour like red in the PS Watch Cap (above).
As for wearing the jacket separately, that would be one more notch along the spectrum but it can work for those that like more unusual looks. I’ll explore it in a separate post, alongside wearing the trousers separately too.
I should say, I know there will always be people whose personality and style suit these more fashion-y looks - people like Niyi perhaps, who I know would wear it very well. It’s just less me and less the core PS reader, so we tend to focus on it less.
Menswear is a broad church these days. You need to maintain a little focus to remain useful.
The collaboration cloths we’ve done with Fox have sold well, but interestingly this chalk stripe has been the most sampled and least ordered. Hopefully these images help with people’s questions, but if some remain please do ask below.
The full details on the collab can be seen in the launch article. The cloths are available through the Fox website and to tailors through their normal channels.
The suit was made my Sartoria Ciardi, in the same double-breasted style as I had in pieces like my grey corduroy jacket. The only difference here was that I asked Enzo to make the lapel roll a little lower and more open, which i think balances his slightly pointy lapel style.
The trousers are also considerably fuller than Ciardi have done in the past. If I compare them to the first suit they made for me, there’s a full inch more in the thighs. Another data point on how things have changed (moderately) in the intervening six years.
Other clothes shown are:
- Suede/alligator Sagan loafers from Baudoin & Lange
- Black calf Piccadilly loafers from Edward Green
- Cap from Ralph Lauren via Crowley Vintage
- Tie from Tie Your Tie in Florence
Fantastic!
I would never call this a versatile piece of clothing. But you show us that it actually works well in many different ways.
Nice, thanks Carl, that was the intention
I also think that the neapolitan tailoring is very important for the versatility. It would be much harder to dress down this suit if it was made by – for example – Huntsman or another traditional Savile Row tailor.
Yes, very true
Probably already asked at some point – but can’t seem to find it again – what is the watch you are wearing?
And also, great suit with beautiful pinstripe! Nice.
Thanks. All details on my watches here
This suit looks fantastic and I really like the outfits. I’ve always felt a draw to navy pinstripe suits and watching Kingsman again recently has really had me itching to commission one. The Kingsman suits are in a worsted vs this flannel and I had been wondering if the flannel would give enough texture to allow the jacket to be worn on its own. I’d love to see some examples of this – do you think it could even look good with jeans, seeing as it goes so well with denim shirts? Thanks
Thans Callum. As mentioned, we will look at this separately – it is possible, but even more of a look than wearing a navy DB blazer with jeans, for example, which many people already struggle with.
In a worsted a lot of this would be harder
Austin Butler looked quite cool in a navy DB blazer with jeans (https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-to-wear-double-breasted-blazers-for-men-d5ef1882). I think your pinstriped would work equally well. But it’s a look, I agree.
Yeah, I’d do it more subtly myself, but that’s me. Eg here
Look forward to the article. Two things you have had made recently really appealed to me, this Navy chalk-stripe suit and the grey herringbone tweed DB jacket Assisi made you. I was planning to have WW Chan make one and Assisi the other. If it were you, which house would you choose for each garment? And why? Thanks
If you don’t mind Callum, can I ask why you would make at the same time with two different tailors? Is there not one of those you would prefer already?
These will be my first bespoke commissions and I wanted to experience two different tailors before committing to one for future commissions. I like the style of both these tailors a lot and so feel confident I’ll be happy with the end result from both. I know it is not ideal to shop around different tailors in the long run but I’m not planning to try 10 different tailors.
Understood, thanks Callum. If I may, I would suggest leaving a little gap between the two orders, as you will certainly learn something from the one experience that you will want to bring to the next one.
Of the two pieces, I’d say go with Assisi for the DB tweed, as that is a more particular style to replicate
Hi Simon, I ended up following your advice. I met WW Chan at their last Bryceland’s trunk show and placed an order for a DB suit in the beautiful PS x Fox navy chalkstripe cloth. I’ll wait until I have this piece before I order anything with Assisi. WW Chan mentioned possibly only doing one fitting and then making the finished garment to speed up the process for trunk show clients I guess. I know it’s more normal to have at least two fittings on a first bespoke garment with a tailor. My general mindset is to take as long as needed to get it right so would you recommend doing two fittings even if the first is good to hone in the pattern? Thanks!
I think I’d leave it up to them and you’re feeling when you try it Callum, rather than try and pre-judge it
Somewhere in the article it says “And the chalk stripe does look great with a regular and tie”, I guess “shirt” is missing there.
Even though I could see myself wearing some of the more casual looks (not the ones with the beanie/cap and popped collar, that’s too #menswear for me), when I get to the second to last picture, with the jacket closed, shirt and tie, I am like “Ok, we have a winner here, this is the way it is meant to be worn”.
That being said, I bought a DB chalk stripe suit at the end of the winter and I am waiting for the colder days again to try and wear it with boots and a rollneck, is it something that you have tried with this one?
Thanks Dario, good spot.
I haven’t tried it like that, no. To be honest I think that might be even more of a look than some of my other looks – a casual shirt or a collared knit is less striking than a roll neck
By the way I forgot to add, I really like what you did there with the collar roll. Another reason to wear it done up.
You’ve Brilliantly illustrated how a suit can be worn without a tie .
If only more men embraced a good quality knitted , long sleeve polo they’d understand that wearing it with a suit is comfortable and stylish .
I’m on a mission to buy afew in navy, green, grey and brown (possibly a burgundy) and that’s all bases covered .
Agree completely with wearing a long sleeve polo with a suit. It’s a very subtle, but sophisticated look. Take a look at the John Smedley Dorset model. All the colors you want are available and the Dorset collar is designed higher so it won’t collapse under a jacket.
I agree but the Dorset, made from merino wool, is too warm for me to wear with a flannel jacket. I’d choose the Finchley, the Dorset’s equivalent in sea island cotton, instead. The Isis, the same but with short sleeves, is ideal for when it’s warmer. Like you, I love their high collars and Smedley’s easy fit is very comfortable.
Yes sir, the Finchley is the cotton version of the Dorset and I love it too, owning several colors. I wear the Finchley under a jacket even when in very warm weather and always find it comfortable. I do like the Dorset for Autumn/ Winter though as the merino wool 30 gauge fabric looks better with seasonal clothing in my opinion while still being very comfortable. Fortunately Smedley does a fantastic job with both fabrics in the easy fit model.
“But I’m a menswear writer poncing around Mayfair. I’m not the typical reader.”
That really made me laugh! However, I am looking / wanting more opportunities to wear suits and tailoring as I miss it, so I agree with the sentiment of the article and will continue to potentially overdress / ponce about when I can!
The same with ties, where when I wear one it almost feels subversive. I was at a meeting yesterday and thankfully one other person was wearing a tie.
I’m off to Goodwood Revival on Sunday, which will be another opportunity to wear tailoring and a tie.
Enjoy Matthew.
Yes, I think it’s about that balance of dressing for yourself and for others, that we’ve written about before. You just need that degree of self-awareness
Agreed.
I don’t think you are a car lover / fanatic like myself, but have you ever been to the Revival? It is interesting from a clothing perspective, a lot of vintage clothing stalls as well, although some of the clothes people wear veer towards fancy dress.
It is a spectacular event and Goodwood really pull out all the stops.
I haven’t, no. I’ve often been interested in the idea of it, but it’s the fancy dress images that put me off. If I’m not interested in the cars, the clothes I guess have to be a lot more interesting than that!
That makes sense!
I laughed too. Although I think Simon is incapable of poncing.
One man’s meat I guess.
More than happy to wear this suit with the dark knit as you have shown, and equally happy if the knit was cream, and of course the shirt and tie combo is just classic.
But I’m afraid the denim, beanie, cap and popped collar are mildly silly to me.
I agree with most of that but the dark knit does not work for me. I’d choose a white shirt and a maroon grenadine tie. Chalk striped suits were the City “uniform” in the 80s and 90s. Bankers and lawyers wore them with striped shirts and spotted ties. Rik Mayall as the awful Alan B’Stard MP in the “The New Statesman” probably killed them off. Drake’s has grey and navy chalk stripe flannel suits (not my style unfortunately) in stock so they may be making a comeback.
I agree with most of the things Martin had mentioned. But ‘silly’ is a bit strong word for this site, in my opinion. I think that look with denim, for me, falls into the category of trying ‘too hard’ to pull formal clothing into informal looks category.
Health to enjoy, Simon – beautiful suit.
Best
AKG
Thanks AKG, good point. We can disagree with more usefulness and substance that way
Sorry, I didn’t mean “silly” in its normal sense, but I couldn’t think of a better word! “Off” perhaps, or “not obvious”?
No worries, thanks Martin, particularly for taking the criticism well and contributing to the friendly and informative atmosphere we try to foster
For me I think the detractor is the pockets on the denim shirt, not the fabric itself, although perhaps if it weren’t for that detail then the high/low look wouldn’t work as it could be seen as just another blue shirt. I would draw a line at the hats though, partly because I don’t think they work for me.
One of the many contradictions with style is trying hard to look like you’re not trying too hard.
Good point on the pockets, yes.
And very true. Helps when it’s the twentieth time you’ve worn the look rather than the first
What an incredible point you did Simon.
Maybe that the main diference between a “look” and a “style”.
At first its looks affected, but in the persistent is the key.
I think that all its about confident. And the main reason (obviously not the only one) why same clothes looks so diferent between people.
I remember the Man United squad did the whole suit and cap thing 25 years ago… at least they wore ties as well! Simon looks less relaxed which is natural given they are staged photos but obviously doesn’t help… good to try new things though otherwise this would quickly become boring.
Ten points to Gryffindor!
The look with the western denim shirt is very Husband’s. I like it a lot, but as others said, look really #menswear for me (which I love, just don’t think I would wear it). However, the suit for an evening event looks great
Thank you for doing this exercise so that we don’t have to and risk commissioning a suit we wouldn’t wear
No worries Tamaki, and always interesting to hear when you would and wouldn’t wear the different looks
Tamaki, agree on the #menswear and your opinion on it. I think maybe a nice way to wear western with it would be a denim dress shirt (like Simons). But yeah, kind of struggling to find other casual high/low shirtings…
An OCBD seems off..
A white western, maybe?
A very pale yellow?
A dark silk shirt would be too evening-wear for daytime but may look nice.
Simon any thoughts?
From what I’ve tried (always a lot!) a white western is good, an OCBD is good in a brighter colour like pink, a cream silk shirt would be nice in the evening. Then I’d go to collared knits
cream silk!? bold choice haha. I would think the contrast would be too much?
OK i get the ocbd in a pop of color to provide the contrast. I always like the white western. Although i would caution that if it is western-adjacent, similiar to brycelands tear drop, it may not click IMHO.
Great looks. I find it intriguing that business dress has become so anodyne that the once-stereotypically ‘City’ outfit of a navy chalkstripe suit feels positively rock and roll nowadays. It genuinely reads as counter cultural to me, even with the shirt-tie combo, because no actual City or Tech executive would ever dress like this. They’re all in slim chinos, blue shirts with tiny collars, trainers, and gilets.
When were you last in the City Robin?
I work in the City, private banking, and I can tell you I see quite a few people, myself including ,wearing navy pinstripe and chalk stripe suits. Shirt and ties are still going strong but I do see more odd jackets nowadays.. Not many people in banking wear gilets as it makes them look like hikers that got lost half way trough..
That’s reassuring to know. Most of the men that I see in the City appear to wear cheap tight suits and pointy shoes. They also carry their laptops in hikers’ rucksacks, usually ugly black nylon! By contrast, my bridle leather briefcase is just big enough to hold a slim Macbook, a folding umbrella and (sun)glasses. Simon would probably describe it as “old fashioned” but, to me, it has classic (or dare I say permanent?) style.
A friend runs one of the better known tailoring houses in the City, and he says he’s never been busier. Lots of odd jackets and trousers, but still knocking out classic two piece suits in traditional cloths.
Kent – I think your perception and Robin’s articulated view is far more accurate than TomTom’s. However there is no neee for this to be a bad thing, as it has never been easier to look exceptionally good in comparison.
I work for a large bank and really disagree… chinos, gilets and white trainers are very common,m even in front office jobs, especially in investment banking. Yes, the private bankers with client commitments will probably be smarter but navy suits will rule and chalk stripe would be exceptionally rare.
Even the CEO just wears a blue suit and open neck white shirt, ties reserved for investor relations days.
It may be an artifact of where I work — it’s not Mayfair, or even central Zurich for that matter — but I’ve never felt that wearing a suit of any kind was necessarily corporate. Almost all of the people I see who do wear suits to work have adopted the ghastly modern-day European uniform of a navy business suit with a white spread-collar shirt, black shoes (often derbies), and no tie or any other accessories. Even just wearing a solid two-piece suit with a tie already smacks of occasionwear to me, and assuming I’m not the only reader who thinks like this, this may be why the fabric is so little ordered. You need to be in a position to want more than one set of such clothing to begin with…
Hello Simon,
I commented in the Fox collab. launch article that I really need to stop ordering 16/17 oz. tweed jackets, living in such a temperate climate.
I was so smitten by the houndstooth cloth at the time, that I didn’t even register how lovely this chalkstripe is. Thank goodness you did a follow-up article; 13/14 oz. might just be doable!
I really do like the idea of this with a charcoal or black roll-neck for an evening cocktail look.
Thanks Nick, and yes that could be lovely in that setting
Perfect timing. I was just about to throw out a 2005 chalk stripe that I haven’t worn in years. I imagine it’s like a scene from Toy Story where all the old suits are grumbling about Chalky getting promoted back to the main wardrobe.
Hi Simon, I really like the versatility shown here, but have you tried it with a regular denim shirt, as supposed to the Western. There is something that goes lost in the symmetry of things, with all that is going on with a Western shirt. It seems somehow a bit conflicting in terms of the lines of the clothing.
I have, and yes that works well too. I think it helps if there’s a little interest in the shirt other than just being a plain blue, but a normal denim shirt does that
I am reminded of Cary Grant’s advice: “To dress stylishly is to dress appropriately. There is an elegance for every age, what looks great on the young can look ridiculous on the aged, and tailoring your attire to the occasion is essential.”
I prefer to not to dress a suit down but rather, to wear it as intended and appropriate. If a social event calls for casual wear, I dress casual.
Still, some interesting looks and it’s good for people to find inspiration.
Hi Bob,
‘As intended and appropriate’ references an incorrect view of how suits were historically worn – the salaryman look is only one way. As suits were overtaken by other forms of casual wear outside the office common perceptions of how they ‘should’ be worn have narrowed, but these are a-historical. I’d suggest taking a look at some of the ‘menswear in classic movies’ or apparel arts posts in blogs like ‘a little but if rest’ or on Pinterest to see examples. There are also examples on this blog, though Simon is less focused on period looks.
Hi Simon, thank you for the article, really nice and classy look. As a reader more leaning towards casual spectrum of tailoring, and this suit perfectly fits it for the fall and winter seasons, and I’m seriously considering it for that matter. Do you think patch pockets would add to it more versatility and causality. Thank you for the advice.
No problem.
I’m not sure patch pockets would make a big difference to be honest. A little more casual, yes, but only a little and I don’t think it opens up more possibilities really
Drake’s sells RTW chalkstripe flannel suits (single breasted, two piece) with patch pockets. At just under £1700, they are expensive as the jacket’s spec is only half canvas. For an extra £300, you could get fully canvassed MTM (made in Tuscany) from Anglo Italian. Hope this helps.
Hi simon,
What a useful article.
Do you think, in this way, that a single breast suit is more versatile?
I love the DB, but it seems to be a lot more difficult to avoid the association “i have a business suit and i dont know what to do with it”.
In other hand, i use to pair a single brest flannel chalk stripe, with denim shirt and ties in roughers materials like flannel, cashmere, cotton, ect.
Thanks,
Dan.
Generally, yes a single-breasted stands out less and is more versatile.
With something like this, it makes some difference but the cloth is the most important thing driving the look. I think my brown chalk stripe was probably best as a single breasted, but it doesn’t stop it being pretty unusual
Could you please elaborate why you think that the brown chalkstripe was better single breasted? I have a jazz club association with brown chalkstripe, and it is double breasted … Thanks.
Simply because it is a more unusual material again, and a single breasted is a less unusual style. Not sure if I want the jazz club association!
Hi Simon, i saw the article on wearing red that you have written,with the PS watch cap which is red. Is this an example of clothing IQ where if you have knowledge you can combine clothes nicely whereas normally a person would not make these choices? Likewise to a slightly lesser extent with the faded RL baseball cap.
“The jacket could almost function as a coat here, and I think I’ll often wear it this way in the winter” wanted to ask for a while, how does an item like this stand up to rainy weather, it must be fine otherwise you would not write what you have written. I’ve been looking at technical coats to go over a jacket like this or is that redundant? This would be more for summer when a proper coat is not practical. Or is it even the difference between a worsted and flannel?
So, on picking a colour like red to go with the suit, or the tonal but importantly beaten-up cap, I think a lot of it is instinctual over time. It’s not IQ, more just trial and error – and seeing someone do it in a way you like, as here, and trying it yourself.
You can point at reasons why it works – eg the battered nature of the cap contrasts nicely with the smoother and smarter suit – but those only get you so far.
On wearing this as outerwear, yes you’d want something over the top (or an umbrella) if you were going to be in a lot of rain. I wouldn’t leave the house if it was raining wearing just this.
But, wool is also very resilient, and if you did happen to get caught in a downpour, the suit could probably be pressed back into perfection
Of course, the battered ball cap works so nicely with this particular sort of suit jacket because it’s a nod to American prep/ Ivy League style of, say, the past fifty years. The trail’s been blazed… though, I don’t mean this as a criticism, as the look still works so well,
The cloth is exceptional in both the navy and brown. I think the single breasted model is much more useful and therefore preferable. I think that a black flannel chalk stripe would be gorgeous as well Simon. What’s your opinion of that idea?
I can’t say I’ve ever seen one, let alone worn one. My instinct is it might look a little too flash with the contrast with the stripes perhaps. A dark charcoal might be more interesting
The dark charcoal would be fantastic, definitely better than black.
I have known barristers who wore black and dark charcoal chalk stripes. Apparently, they looked intimidating with black gowns and wigs.
Yes I can see that. Probably almost Victorian
I like striped suits on occasion but I think they especially benefit from being paired with a dress shirt at least, if not a shirt and tie. I’d be curious to see these same outfits recreated with a plain navy flannel suit. I think the plain navy would seem more harmonious. The fabric certainly is beautiful.
Thanks. I find a plain navy is lacking something – maybe because we’re so used to seeing it with a tie. I would need something like a belt on show, maybe something peeking from the top pocket, to make it interesting
I’m increasingly finding ‘odd’ suiting fabrics like this are the only ones that fit in my office these days. If I want to wear a tie, and I often do, I find I need to wear something other than a worsted super 1XX. Cottons (inc corduroy), flannels, and tweeds (it’s been winter down here in New Zealand) seem to avoid the ‘have you got a job interview?’ question. In that context I’d definitely find this office appropriate – and had been looking at Drakes versions just before your release 🙂
Beautiful! When you say you asked to make the lapel roll lower, does this mean the button point was changed? Curious how this change affected the look of the jacket. Also, is this Ciardi’s typical length? I read that the normal length of DBs is lower than SBs, is this true? It would seem the opposite, but wanted to get your feedback. Cheers sir!
No, the button point was the same, but normally the roll ends a little above it. That was pushed down a touch. It makes the fronts look more open and the lapels rounder and wider. But as with all of this, only slightly
Sometime DBs can be longer, and suit jackets as opposed to separate jackets too, but generally I have them about the same
Simon,
That suit is utterly beautiful…period.
I wonder how that would work with say a fine Ulster double breasted coat and a fedora!
All health to enjoy.
I think it might risk looking a little costumey, to be honest!
I was eagerly awaiting to see how this cloth looked once made up and I’m not disappointed. The stripes almost vanish in the sunlight. I’m seriously considering having a suit made in this material. Single-breasted, with maybe a waistcoat as well. For reference, I’m an attorney. Not sure I could pull off the denim look, but I think a pale chambray shirt would definitely pair well with the chalkstripe.
Yes I think that would be nice.
I’d think twice about the waistcoat, just because it could push it a good deal more towards the traditional – though that might be the look you want of course
Thanks for this piece. It comes just as I am looking to transition from a job where I wore suiting five or six days a week to one where this would seem overreaching. Looking presentable will matter, as might conveying a whiff of hierarchical authority, but not without a little ease and even humour…It makes me think of all the aspects of what ‘formal’ can communicate now — lots of in-betweens: dutiful but not dull, sober but not somber, persuasive but not ‘power’-full… It doesn’t help that this is all taking place at the edge of the fool’s summer of early September! I have two suits I acquired recently, neither of which worked at my old job: a pale grey herringbone tweed and a navy flannel chalk stripe, both with Husbands-like flat-front wide leg (though not the newer, really-wide leg), high-waisted-ish trousers that allow the fabrics to drape nicely down the thigh as one lopes along… I’ve never felt shy about wearing a tie, but have lately wondered about donning one less religiously than before, as much to draw a line between old and new lives as anything else.
So yes, articles like this are really helpful, including comments from readers taking exception to (or tweaking) your choices. I think one key consideration that must be acknowledged is that we are looking at the navy striped suit from across the great post-modern divide in which the suit is now ‘the suit’… Here I’m implying Susan Sontag’s italics as observed in her wonderful 1964 essay “Notes on Camp” [worth a read — you can track down the PDF online]… Is anything more at the heart of the danger than a navy stripe? We are trying to avoid camp here, but you can observe the discomfort in people referencing #menswear, which often steps into the camp camp of sensibility as theatre. Seeking an alternative solution I find myself thinking of some of the ways old Ralph Lauren adds would throw together weathered denim, herringbone tweed, a washed-out ball cap, and a classic rep tie, with perhaps a old army parka or a Navajo textile for good measure. The point seemed to be that each of these ingredients represented complete design idioms whose meanings could survive a judicious mixing intact — the passionate aficionado might combine them with the same aplomb as a Victorian decorator dipping into The Grammar of Ornament. I’ve had mixed feelings about Ralph over the years, but I enjoy the seriousness of his appreciation for materials, forms and modes, and can see how for some on the far side of postmodern fatigue it amounts to a kind of valour. The proposition that a navy striped suit (crucially in a more slouchable flannel) is as much of a platonic staple as a pair of blue jeans or suede chukka boots, or ribbed navy watch cap a pea coat, as a both a reasonable hypothesis and a challenging experiment demanding skill and practice, is just the kind of what-if that makes a person get excited to open their closet door each morning.
I’m going to play with some of your ideas and a few of my own…One idea I’d like to try is beginning with far too many ideas (no tie but a coloured sweater vest over a spread collar, a graphically textured scarf or even a large indigo cotton bandana neatly knotted under a raffishly ragged blue ocbd, mahogany or Bordeaux loafers not black cap-toes, etc.) and then gradually subtract, stopping just short of the dreaded uniform one of your readers has mentioned: a dark suit with white shirt (no tie, no pocket square, no subtle but unexpected choice of hosiery hue, no visible ink, no idiosyncratic personal totems of any kind.) We’ll see how it goes. I expect one thing that might help would be (as demonstrated by your western short experiment) some monochrome play… Making the blue a feature that transcends the ‘suit’ of the suit might help a person pull together stand out all at once.
Brilliant commentary albeit it’s interesting how the younger flaneurs (I assume – me being 71) leave out all references to past influences. It’s like they’re discovering things for the first time – maybe they are ?
The fact of the matter is that the late Serge Gainsborough sported this look for most of his debauched adult life. It’s a classic sartorial winner. Plus ca change ?
Thank you for that reference point! My knowledge of his way of dressing has been limited, though I admire what he was able to do with those white Repetto/Zizi homme shoes he wore so religiously despite the fact that I could never pull off such a thing. I will read up! Also in the department of things from that period that I cannot personally pull off are the wonderful sartorial stylings of James Baldwin— las with Gainbourg, it was unmistakably the way he carried himself that brought it all together.
Hi Simon,
This is nazim from Paris. We met last June at Beige for your latest book signing.
firstly I would like to say, that the cut of ciardi and Ferdinando caraceni is what suits you best. I would go further, you can even pair the jacket with well-cut-Brycelandsco- dark blue jeans and a chambray shirt. like the famous French singer Serge Gainsbourg. Take care.
Thank you Nazim, lovely to hear from you, and I will certainly try that
i see you have succumbed to the black knit tie, which I like more than navy.
the denim and chalk stripe is excellent. that is just the mixture i am looking for. High end tailoring should be about comfort but also about the style that is under threat from the anodyne.
I was looking through the shots and thinking mmm, interesting, then when I saw the shirt with tie photo I immediately appreciated how much better that looked. Nothing comes close to the suit in its true setting.
In many ways I agree – it doesn’t mean I should wear it given where I am, who I am, what I want to put across, but it is the most beautiful
A great look. Particularly with the denim shirt.
There again, this was pretty much a staple with Serge Gainsborough back in the ‘70s.
The suit is great albeit I’d have left the cuffs off the trousers – I think we are way past peak cuff !
And I’d definitely have sported a belt . Black alligator skin would be nice.
Navy blue turns heads and draws compliments. And here you’ve shown us why. Nice outfits, all of them.
I cannot quite get over the fact that, as some other readers have observed, striped suits have gone from ubiquitous, and at times almost mandatory, to rare and possibly eccentric. If nothing else it shows how heavily influenced we all are by the tide (if not one hopes the ripples) of fashion.
Of course there are stripes and stripes. I have a single breasted summer suit with fine (and closely spaced) pinstripes which draws no comment at all. But my double breasted suit with more broadly spaced and bolder stripes is considered a little (but I think just about pardonably) loud. However my partner, with whom I usually see eye-to-eye, winces when I leave the house in it. No one would have batted an eyelid between 1985 and 1995. They are strictly for business though.
Neither is chalk striped or flannel which i would have thought typically less showy because the slightly smudgy stripe stands out less against the material (which is of course more mottled than the background in a dark plan worsted).
I would have thought that for most people dipping a toe into pinstripe for evening wear would probably be better of going for a single breasted suit to avoid doubling down on the potential old-fashioned/costume associations. I’m also inclined to the view that single breasted goes better with non-shirt and tie accompaniment such as knitted polo or rollnecks.
Hi Simon,
How do these ‘niche’ Western shirts compare to classics from Levi’s barstow?
They’re a much higher quality level – Levi’s is a high-street brand now, particularly with the closing of LVC
Simon,
could you not wear that same tie but with the denim shirt?( I know it looks better on the Oxford)
Not with a denim shirt like this one, I think, it’s too thick. But a more regular denim shirt, yes certainly
hi Simon, cool looking suit. I am having one done by T&G Caraceni in a similar fabric that I should collect this autumn. I find the outfit with the tie a bit austere with the black tie and black shoes – is that the look you were going for? I would have instinctively paired this with brown suede shoes and a beige, brown or grey cashmere tie, which for me would be a bit more welcoming as a look.
It is quite austere, this is true. The chalk stripe is deliberately dark, and the shoes would have to be a rather dark shade of brown to work I think. If they were it could work nicely though, and those colours of tie would certainly work as well
Yes I agree it would have to be a very dark brown suede, otherwise the contrast with the blue would be jarring.
The way you wear the suit works well for sure. It would look great at night and would perhaps be less strong if it were worn then.
True. Thanks as always for the suggestions Andrew
I thought you would have gone with pleated trouser when it comes to double breasted. Or is that too conventional?
I don’t relate the style of the trouser to the style of the jacket in that sense. Pleats or plain fronts are a separate consideration.
Hi Simon
You mention this is a little further on the subtle/showy scale. Do you mean towards the showy end?
To me this all looks more subtle (blending in with non menswear people in London) than most tailoring here (eg cream trousers, grey herringbone or taupe jackets)
Yes I do. Cream trousers certainly can be more showy, but generally a herringbone or taupe I don’t think would be.
I think it’s pretty unusual to see people in London in a double-breasted chalk stripe suit these days myself
Absolutely beautiful suit. I’d probably pair it with a navy roll neck myself.
Hi Simon. How would you consider the sizing of Bryceland’s sawtooth Western shirt compared to other button up shirts? I’m between a 40 and 42 on their sizing chart and was curious if I should lean towards the larger size for the unwashed option.
I’m lean towards the bigger size myself – you want a bit of room in a shirt like that, and it will come in a little bit with washing
Great article Simon. I have a beautiful Attolini Fox flannel charcoal single breasted suit that I ordered from Simone Rigi when he used to manage Tie Your Tie in Florence. Miss those days! I have had it for many years and having rarely worn it is literally as good as new. The cloth looks identical to yours only mine is charcoal grey. Was thinking of getting a cream cashmere turtleneck for the autumn/ winter in CT / NY. Thoughts on the look? Thanks in advance.
Nice! Yes that was such a lovely shop, a real shame. There’s a lovely photo of me here with Simone back in the day
I find cream roll necks tricky myself. I’ve had them in the past but I always find them a little showy under tailoring. Very much a question of your style of course
That is a lovely photo ! Thanks Simon.
Hi Simon,
Eventually, I better understand what you meant by “unusual” outfit! Personally, I would call it “the rescuer’s style”.
So what would I do with such a lovely suit? Sorry for cutting to the chase.
Assumption: one item at a time. So, the jacket for AW.
Shoes: black or dark brown loafers such as the EG Picadilly, or black / dark brown semi- brogues such as your EG Asquith or a single monk-strap such your EG Oundle – also saved en passant from oblivion. Please, forget your Sagan for once to avoid sabotaging your rescue operation.
Trousers: black or dark brown cords with turns-up. For heaven’s sake, resist any temptation to wear jeans here.
Shirts: quite simple. Plain white, light-blue, sky-blue, or even a fairly darker tone of pink of button-down shirts, worn with or without a plain silk neckerchief, and in case you wanf to, fied in a fraditional manner.This would save you from going so far down the levels of formality – relatively to the DB’s – to pull off the one pictured here. I would also eschew black and navy shirts in this context.
Worth bearing in mind: actually, a rescue operation of a great piece of tailoring is an opportunity to pay hommage to its maker and the craft he upholds.
I hope it makes sense.
John
I love a chalk navy flannel suit. My favorite look these days is to wear it in Fall/Winter with a darker navy rollneck. Along with black loafers it gives it a less business vibe and great for all around wear. The style/shape of your loafers are really ideal.
I have two blue chalk stripe suits, one a DB, the other a 3 piece SB, both from Gieves, and I had no idea they had gone out of fashion!
When reading a novel one goes through happily until at times and if the novel is good there is an extra uplift here and there: a slightly new take on the world or an existing take perfectly expressed. I love that.
The chalk stripe to me has such a strong traditional image and you have crafted that extra uplift: a new and surprising remoulding.
Thank you, I did enjoy.
Fantastic suit. One of the best this year. One question – the move to a more fuller/wider trouser…is that not going against what you’ve normally advocated for in working with bespoke tailors…i.e. avoiding bringing latest trends in menswear into the process rather than (more or less) sticking with the house style etc? Maybe an extra inch of width is not such a big deal but I’m a fan of a trimmer line in trousers. More flattering to me.
I know what you mean, but no I wouldn’t say that applies to trouser width. There might be a default the tailor uses, but it’s not as complex a style as changing a shoulder for example
I’ve noticed you seem to get loads of wear from your black Piccadilly loafers. Could you perhaps comment on how you think they are best optioned based on your experience for material 1) calf, 2) utah, 3) delapre, or 4) suede (perhaps not as versatile or better if brown was desired) and the construction 1) unlined vs 2) lined?
If we’re talking black, I find the suede hard to wear myself. It’s too unusual.
Calf is the smartest, but all three would be OK for business wear I think. On utah and delapre, I’m not sure how much they’re offering them now – worth checking
A beautiful suit. I really like it with the shirt and tie and the black polo neck. With the western I’m worried it would look too forced or effortful, almost to menswear cosplay; as the contrast is so huge. Do you see this as a problem?
To be honest I don’t think anyone in the real world sees it as cosplay – they don’t know what menswear is.
But it is a more unusual look certainly. If you’re concerned about that then a plainer denim shirt would also work well.
Great idea thank you Simon
Hi Simon, Any recommendations for a brown summer chalk stripe suit?
Not off the top of my head I’m afraid. Is there one in Fox Air?
The last look – with the blue/white shirt and he knitted tie – is a killer. Subtle odd.
Beautiful cloth and a lovely suit. I love the idea of wearing it with denim and a black knit as well as more formally.
This piece made me (sadly) remember that I’ve sold the only pair of flannels I used to have, nearly unworn, and since then I’ve been going on disregarding the menswear maxim that flannel trousers are the absolute staple. “Sadly” because I’d like any excuse (or rather, opportunity) for variety, but I have found nowadays ever-warmer climate (coupled with excessive use of heating in winter in most indoor places) to be simply too warm to basically ever suit flannels in any urban setting, since you can always remove the jacket once you get indoor, but of course, not your trousers.
Now I mostly make do with corduroy for smart-casual, and cavalry twill for smart, so unfortunately I wouldn’t know what to do with a flannel suit. That being said, the cloth looks lovely, particularly in that very dark navy.
Chalk-stripe suits always remind me of politicians in the Thirties, worn by people who were not quite a gentleman and fashionable with U.S. gangsters.
I’ve always found them to be quite attractive, but never had the chutzpah to wear one. If any suit can be said to be the epitome of male aggression, to those who find the suit to be threatening, it is the challk-stripe suit and in these egalitarian time it probably needs to be toned-down by being accompanied by more casual wear.
Hey Simon. Your approach seems that every clothing item can cover a certain range of formality. Here I understand you have expanded the more common range of the navy chalk stripe flannel suit towards less formal spectrums, pairing it with less formal items. Which of these would would not be possible with
a) a grey flannel suit
b) a brown corduroy suit (> 10 wales)
?
Which other less formal spectrums can be covered (that might stretch this navy chalk stripe flannel a bit too far) with
a) a grey flannel suit
b) a brown corduroy suit (> 10 wales)
?
Just trying to improve my understanding of the formality scale.
Hi DS,
All of these looks would be possible with both of those suits. The effect would be slightly different, but only slightly.
With a brown cord suit I might be more likely to wear a crewneck knit or T-shirt underneath, which might be a bit too much with the chalkstripe, but really these three aren’t that different to each other in terms of formality, more in terms of which is more showy/unusual (a grey flannel being the safest, then brown cord perhaps, and chalk stripe the most unusual)
Business travel and impending autumn means this would slot nicely into short trips from the Netherlands.
Time to rethink traveling in suits.
I love the “high-low” concept, especially with a cloth that has as much harrumph as flannel chalk stripe. I know you shy away from worsted flannels, but I can’t help but wonder how that more practical cloth would take the stripe?
When I ordered my first MTM suit some 25 years ago, it was a navy chalk stripe three piece . . . at the time I considered it the apex of dressing like an adult.
Yes it’s interesting, there is a range of worsted flannels and the wooliest might be good. Just not so great when they get very lightweight
Would you say 12oz+ only?
Yes, or maybe 11 is fine. Basically, worsted flannels are often worsted to make them more Italian-y lightweight, which is normally 10oz and below. If it’s above that, the reason for being worsted is not really just to make them lighter, as there are regular flannels at that weight too
Wheres the waiscot.
I understand you mentioned that you’d cover how to wear the jacket on its own in a separate post, but given the time constraints I’m facing, I’m thinking of placing an order for a bespoke jacket with this flannel fabric this week. Any advice would be much appreciated.
Hey Ken,
I’d say it would be an unusual jacket on its own. Hard to say whether it would be your style or not, but even with dark jeans I think it’s not the easiest to make into a cohesive outfit. Either way I would go DB though
Thanks for getting back to me. Unfortunately hearing your response has made me even more confused. According to the original guidelines, wasn’t it the case that a DB design makes things more complicated? I’d like to understand why you’re suggesting a DB style. Since navy flannel itself is not a common fabric for jackets, is the intention to make it even more unusual by going with a DB style?
Yes. I can see how it could be confusing, but with more unusual things it’s often a case of either trying to dial it all down, or really leaning into it, making it more of a clear style.
For me, a separate jacket in this cloth is something you should really lean into. A plain navy would be easier and could go either way
Hi Simon, I really like the look of flannel but have never bought it because of its reputation for ‘trouser-bagging’. In fact, I think you allude to this in one or two of your articles. However, you also seem to be a fan and buy a lot. Can the bagging problem be dealt with by buying heavier weights, regular pressing or some other care ritual? If it occurs can it be remedied?
When I look at your outfits I usually resolve to buy a flannel suit and then remind myself that Anderson & Sheppard are currently charging around £6500, which would be psychologically scarring if trousers had to be discarded after 10 or 15 wears. In the past I’ve bottled it and gone for ‘worsted flannel’ instead. I doubt I’m the only reader living with flannel anxiety. Is there anything you can say to help us find closure?
Flannel is great as long as you are prepared to do a touch more ironing. I do it maybe every 8-10 wears, something like that?
Also, don’t wear it to do things like cycling, and if you want something tougher, don’t go for heavier necessarily, go for denser.
Thanks very much, Simon. I’m happy to put in the extra effort. I treat my A&S with the same reverence as I would a medieval chasuble – so definitely no cycling. Thanks also for making the distinction between weight and density. Your chalk-stripe combination looks great by the way. Best, Sean.
“poncing around Mayfair” — that’s funny, Simon.
Great career you have made for yourself!
And an excellent d-b pinstripe suit, cheers, Maurice
I really want a suit like this!
So, what colour are those buttons? I was expecting dark brown and then I thought they were black, but now I’m not sure at all. And there seems to be some variegation — horn, I guess? I’m looking at the pics on a phone which doesn’t help. Anyway, it would be good to know your choice and thought processes.
Thanks and best.
They’re dark-brown horn, yes. Just very dark.
There is a post here on button choice, not sure if you’ve seen it.
Aha! Ok, thanks. I saw the buttons post a couple of days ago, which is what got me thinking.
Ah I see, cool. If you have any other questions not answered in there, please do ask (here or there)
Slightly off topic, but the Husbands western shirt is really beautiful, and the combination with the jacket is stunning (yet bold!). However, it’s been out of stock for quite some time. Would you recommend any similar alternative?
Not one with a nice collar like this and the mid-blue wash, no
Hi Simon, from the pictures it looks like you went with a ”standard” shoulder as opposed to the spalla camicia. Is this correct ?
With this one, yes I had a little more roping in the sleevehead, just a touch. It’s still spalla camicia actually, but that’s a minor point. Video here explaining the difference if that’s interesting
Interesting. I have a Neapolitan hopsack DB for summer, which is spalla camicia (no roping), but I wondered if a standard shoulder isn’t more appropriate for a DB suit (or a slightly more formal jacket)?
It is a more natural combination, yes. It’s a minor point a lot of people wouldn’t pick up on, but that would be the standard pairing of styles – so it’s a question of how much you like being a little bit different
That’s a beautiful bit of cloth. I’m ordering a sample. Hopefully it’s got the same hand and drape of Holland&Sherry’s Sherrycash line. I just got my first jacket from Camps De Luca and I’m looking for a DB suit to work with Julien on. Praying this is it.
It will have more body than the SherryCash, not being cashmere, but that’s what you want in a suit.
Say hello to Julien for me!