So how shall we review a suit? Let me count the ways.
One: style.
Still the most important thing, as much as we encourage men everywhere to care more about quality and fit.
[Read my first post, with the background on Musella Dembech and its style, here]
I adore the style of this, my completed Musella Dembech suit.
I’m not such a big fan of the Musella single-breasted cut, but the lapel of the double-breasted is just beautiful.
A lot of belly, but not to excess. A high peak, but not so it’s floating off the shoulder. A slightly flatter gorge (where collar and lapel meet) that gives it a slightly vintage feel. (Of course, the gorge also helps the peak from being too high).
The wrap is not too narrow, emphasising width in the body rather than height. The shoulder is soft, finished in a ‘shirt’ sleeve construction, but with the tiniest lift in the sleevehead at the end.
Other things are largely in moderation: a sleeve that is full and masculine, but not messy; a subtly suppressed waist; a skirt that is relatively close in the hips but does not visibly curve inwards.
The only things I would change are perhaps a touch more on the length (a centimetre at most) and a trouser that is slightly narrower in the thigh.
I think here Gianfrancesco was trying to make absolutely sure the trousers didn’t pull and open the pleats. He partly succeeded, but perhaps at the expense of that leg line.
Two: fit.
This is not perfect, but it is very important to bear in mind the limitations of lightweight cotton. It has no line and no drape. It does not have the body or weight to hang straight.
Cotton is not a material for tailoring puritans, and many tailors dislike it for that reason.
I like it because it is fiendishly comfortable, and subtly casual. Not a business suit, but not country clothing either.
The sleeves are about a centimetre too short.
This is partly my fault, as Gianfrancesco suggested keeping them a little longer to compensate for the wrinkles in the elbow that would come with wear, and inevitably shorten the sleeve.
I decided against that. But a centimetre is easy to add without making the button position look odd - and if done now before the end of the sleeve develops a line through wear.
The shoulders could be lifted slightly, just at the ends, but it’s marginal.
The pitch of the sleeve is fine, but ruined by the rumpling of the cotton.
Three, quality.
I’ve deliberately separated this from decorative sewing and handwork.
Quality is about all the basic things we know and love about bespoke - the hand padding of the collar and canvas, particularly. Which you can see from the image above.
It’s about accuracy in the finishing. So straight seams, even if done by hand. Rear trouser pockets being straight and closed (whether buttoned or not) and nothing falling off or falling apart.
This quality is what a few southern Italian houses sometimes fail to deliver - and indeed even smaller tailors elsewhere.
But it’s something bigger, established houses are nearly always better on - through practice, and good management.
Part of that is also service and reliability. Always delivering on promised timings; not getting anything wrong with the order; no silly mistakes.
On all these quality points, Musella Dembech is more like a big tailoring house than an at-home operation. And increasingly that’s something I’m happy to pay for.
My only caveat would be Gianfrancesco’s preference for not having side adjustors on the trousers.
He dislikes them as he says they never work well, and the two buttons for the waistband mean you tighten there if you need to.
Those buttons do work fairly well, but for me not as well as a side adjustor, and I will ask him to add them on.
Four, decoration.
Here Musella also excels. As you can from the images, there is fine and consistent pick stitching along almost every edge and seam, by hand.
The sleeves were unlined, and the finishing of these seams inside was also wonderfully neat.
The lining is not hand-sewn in and then top-stitched over the top by hand, as only the aesthetes at Cifonelli or Camps de Luca would do.
But the edges of the lining (it is only half lined) are turned and sewn by hand, which is nice - even on the pocket bag where it peeps out of the lining.
The buttonholes are finely wrought - although as noted on the first post, I don’t particularly like the relatively large hole at the end (sometimes known as a keyhole buttonhole).
It’s easier to sew if the hole is bigger, but of course that doesn’t mean it’s the reason it’s done.
Other largely decorative things (or perhaps they belong under style?) are the grey mother-of-pearl buttons on the waistband - and the thinness of that waistband. Both of which I like.
Overall, a very good suit that succeeds in making something wonderful out of a cheap, unruly cloth.
I can understand readers who commented Musella is too small to be charging €5,000 for a suit, but the product is certainly beautiful.
I just need to find a way to afford the next one, in a harder, more sharper-edged material.
Background on Musella in my first post here.
Gianfrancesco is based in Milan and currently only travels to Hong Kong (with The Armoury).
I am also wearing:
- Bespoke cotton shirt, Luca Avitabile
- Matte silk tie, Paul Stuart
- Indigo bandana (as handkerchief), 45rpm
- Linen socks, Bresciani
- Bespoke suede slip-ons, Gaziano & Girling
Photography: of me, Jamie Ferguson @jkf_man. Detail shots: Permanent Style
Great looking suit. I’d go for a mohair over cotton for this sort of stuff, though.
Thanks Matthias.
Mohair is nice, but of course a lot sharper and crispier than cotton – doesn’t have the casual edge of cotton.
Agree it is too short, as are the sleeves. The cuff buttons are badly spaced, some touching, others not. For this type of money I would honestly expect much better.
Thank you. The cuff buttons are actually quite even – the photograph is a little misleading in that case. The position of the buttonholes themselves underneath are a better indication.
As mentioned, the sleeves are partly my fault, and of course the jacket length is slightly subjective
I love the cut of the suit, but personally I’m not a fan of cotton trousers either.
You you plan to wear the Jacket as separates as you did choose patchpockets?
Good question. I’m not sure – I haven’t tried it as a separate jacket yet, but it will be borderline whether it works or not. Perhaps if I put on some lighter/higher contrast buttons…
I’ve never seen a seam on a collar before. Whose idea was it?
Gianfrancesco’s. He says it is hard otherwise to get enough curve in the collar with cotton. It’s certainly true that there is much less capacity with cotton to shape the cloth, but then again I have other cotton suits without a seam in the collar and the fit through and round the neck seems fine.
I was also surprised to see a two piece collar. In terms of curve of the collar, i have a seersucker bespoke jacket which fits just as well as any wool jacket.
It’s because he’s a purist and has shrunk the whole length before cutting – hard to get much shape out of cotton after that (if collar cut as single piece).
I’ve noticed that your blog appears to be increasingly focusing on Italian tailors, or tailors who work in the Italian style, when it comes to suits and separates.
Any particular reason for this (other than personal taste) and do you have any plans to commission and review pieces from any English tailors in the near future?
Hi Matt,
It’s not really a question of my taste or preference changing – more just that I spent the first few years of this blog using almost entirely English tailors, and I want to try and cover everyone significant. I’ve covered 16-18 British tailors (depending how you count), including most of the big Savile Row names. See list here.
Hi Simon,
Are you planning to cover any UK bespoke tailors outside of London? I often wonder whether there are any good bespoke tailors outside of London that are being missed? For some of us who live in the UK, it is not always easy to get into the capital.
Many thanks.
There are many, but it’s hard to prioritise covering them.
Most of the time, the only thing they offer is price – there is no other differentiating factor. And they don’t travel. So they’re only useful to.cover for readers that happen to live near that town/city. And that’s not very many people
Whose idea was the centre-seam in the upper collar? Does MD cut all their upper collars in two pieces? – To me that looks distinctly odd.
See response to similar question above…
I actually don’t mind it, in the same way I don’t mind front darts that extend to the bottom edge. But I completely see how others would.
The photo from the back makes you look like a friar, Simon
Ah man, don’t be mean about my balding!
Would you ever consider a bespoke ‘weave’, Simon? Wayne Rooney looks far better these days apparently
No, I think toupe is the way to go
Good call, Simon. I presuming something a la Paul Daniels? Now that would be magic!
Simon, would you seriously consider a toupe ( or “hair system”)? It would be very interesting to see if you could pull this off. Reviews of suppliers and details of your experiences would probably also be of interest to a sizeable proportion of your readership!
No Jay, it was a joke
Is there any celebrity who wears a hair supplement or whatever type, that is indistinguishable from the real thing?
I have never seen one which is that good. Every man I have ever met who has one form or another, I have instantly picked up on it …
Just checking on the “state of the art”, if there any updates..
As my father used to say, “Grass doesn’t grow on a busy street”.
Hello Simon, do you plan to broaden your bespoke discoveries to houses such as Knize or Zaremba in the near future?
Like to do Zaremba, less interested in Knize from visiting them last year
May I ask you why?
On Knize? I met them and saw their production, and it seemed both expensive and not a particularly interesting style.
I agree, their shirts start at 400 euro. But did you find anything interesting in Vienna besides Ludwig Reiter and Jungmann & Söhne?
Yes, a handful of other shoe places and other traditional shops. Should write more fully about them some time
Brian Eno (music producer , technologist, genius) says that before you read a critic’s review the critic should state what albums they like and what they don’t so you can read that review in context.
Likewise , reading this , I’m looking at a fantastically well fitted suit but overly noting (improperly) the very small points you don’t like.
(Regarding the cotton cloth, why not re-commission with wool and get the same great pluses without the negatives.)
I appreciate 1cm can have a noticeable effect on sleeve length but all these factors lead to a OCD type fixation on tailoring.
Even Hugo Jacomet (Parisian Gentleman) states “it must not become an obsession .It must remain fun .”
It would be good if you could show and write what you consider the closest you have to perfection in a suit/ jacket / trouser/ shirt.
Anyway , having read a number of your suit reviews this looks beautiful and you sound more impressed with this than others reviewed for a while.
Thanks, and you’re correct I do really like it.
I also certainly agree that this should remain fun. If you become obsessive, all the fun is likely to be sucked out of it. Debateable at what level something becomes obsessive!
On the wool point, it’s because I like the casual style of cotton. Even in a navy DB, this doesn’t look or feel like a formal or business suit.
I certainly would consider this a well balanced review in line with others on this blog. The reviewer tells us what he likes/dislikes and what could be better (partly due to his own communication or his own taste).
Too many blogs on menswear (if not all) have become like coffee table books: they’re not critical at all, just echoing information.
Thanks Burt. Glad that’s recognised
Hi Simon
Is the cloth from a current bunch?
Yes – ‘So Cotton’ is the bunch, number 276015.
It’s the same bunch and weight as my Caliendo cotton
MD is my favorite italian tailor and this suit looks very nice. Can you let us know the specs of the cloth?
Yes – see comment above
Thanks. The H&S website very poorly reflects its color and beauty, looking boringly dark & matt instead.
Considering a suit from the same “So Cotton” bunch from H&S, a Sand Colour for a Summer Suit.
Simon – with regards to Drape, retaining shape, noting this is at least your 2nd Suit from this bunch – what do you find most annoying about cotton? For me the attraction is the texture of cotton is refreshingly different whilst also the colours tend to be muted and that to me gives it life.
I agree, I like those things too. The most annoying thing is a lack of a hard line, eg trouser crease.
I really want to like cotton, for all the reasons you’ve mentioned, but have had very limited success so far. Despite being a casual, rumply material, it doesn’t seems to work for separates as well as rougher materials like linen, hopsack, tweed or flannel. Maybe it’s just a bit too shiny? Garment washes definitely help for trousers, but the washed RTW jackets from places like Boglioli are cut rather short (plus I have a relatively long torso for my height – one of the reasons I was drawn to bespoke in the first place) so the fit is never good. Do any bespoke tailors offer garment washing services?
No, as garment washing is generally done in bulk – it’s also hard to control and always has some wastage.
just picking up on some of the less flattering comments, the photo from the back is simply shocking, and the seam on the collar doesn’t line up with the long seam on the back.
5K euros for this. really?
I’m afraid, as ever, you just can’t judge for points like this from photos. The collar is a perfect example – because it does line up…
Hi Simon, you have mentioned several times that we should not judge for points like those based on photos.
My question is, how then, should we judge those points if we cannot be there to look at the suit/jacket in person?
It’s really for fit, more than anything else. You can make a poorly fitting suit look good in pictures, and vice versa. And there are always small distortions.
The answer is that at least for fit, you need to rely on the text and review, not the images.
I think this post is only confirms that this is a good tailorshop but overpriced.
And I guess why )): this is the price for armoury HK, they agreed that MD will not offer lower price to other customers. But he sell to armoury not more than €2,500. Simpl business logic.
I’m afraid that’s simple not true Timofey. And I’m going to guess that you’re merely speculating, which is hardly helpful.
But he sell in armoury at the same price. That is the profit of armoury??) it was the same with liverano who doubles he’s price upon entering to Japanese market.
Those price increases are largely to reflect travel (but and forth to Japan three or four times for a suit?) and a richer market. Places like the armoury make very little money off bespoke visiting tailors
Hi Simon. I’m sure that suit will grow to be quite comfortable.
QUESTION: what is your view on 2 x 4 double breasted (blue) suit? I am thinking the blue jacket can be worn separately, where as a 2 x 6 button will not work alone as it’s too formal. Thoughts? thank you.
I think that might make a slight difference, but the biggest things are always going to be colour, texture and cut
Being cotton how will it be maintained ?
I’m thinking odour from under arms and not having the ‘less maintenance’ qualities of wool.
How will dry cleaning affect it compared to dry cleaning wool?
P.S. on the subject of underarm odour I read somewhere theatre wardrobe folk spray vodka to kill odour and bacteria .
Ive never had issues with underarm odour on cotton, but I don’t sweat too much. Dry cleaning is fine, in fact can bring out the nice worn and faded look of cotton
I thing it’s a gorgeous suit– in the way great bespoke gives that overall intangible style, this suit has it. Might be more than some are willing to pay, which is fine, but doesn’t take away from the suit.
And calling out cotton for being rumpled and not fitting like wool is like calling out a sweater for being warm.
Dear Simon,
As ever I appreciate your exploration of subtleties.
What holds me back from cotton suits is that they seem harder to look after than wool. Cotton requires so much more cleaning and pressing. So although casual in appearance it is actually more fuss than wool.
Your thoughts?
Yes, it is, but I think you just have to accept it will look like this most of the time, and not try to press it into a sharper look
I see no point in spending 5000 euros on a suit like this. There are plenty of real bespoke tailors in the uk who would make you a better garment for far less.
Would you mind adding a little substance into this comment? How do you consider Musella Dembech not a real tailor? In what ways do you think another would be better?
Always useful to have rather than generalities. Thank you.
Not intended to be a generally, but perhaps not the best use of English. Let me try again.
Why spend 5000 euros on a bespoke suit in Italy which fits poorly when you could get a bespoke garment made by an English tailor which would fit better and cost a lot less?
Thanks. Well, I don’t think it fits poorly – and as mentioned above, you can’t tell much as regards fit from photos. More importantly, no English tailor could make this style. And finally, money is not a question of nationality. There are much cheaper Italian tailors and English tailors that are as expensive
Sorry, but we are swapping postings.
It does fit poorly, because you yourself said it is too short in the length, the sleeves are too short, and the shoulders need passing up a bit.
If you don’t know of any tailors in the UK who could make like this, then you don’t know where to look Simon. I could name four who could make this better tomorrow. Perhaps you need to do a bit more research.
Just my four penny worth………
Well, a question of language. It’s not perfect, but I wouldn’t say poor.
And yes, I know, have interviewed and covered suits made by good UK tailors – many times.
That’s a beautiful suit, Simon. I have a similar blue jacket I got from DuchampLondon a few years ago, lovely piece. The fading does make it better, very cormfortable too. Would you wear it with a silk tie though, or it’s just for the shoot? Is it ok to wear it with silk tie or pocket square?
I would wear with a silk tie, yes, though more as a suit, not with a jacket
In my humble opinion this suit is great. Both in style as in execution.
Ok, it’s quite expensive but the finishing is superb and the cut quite unique as well.
It seems like you have to pay a premium for shops that have a future ahead of them. Which may be right. Sooner or later all the great ones will be gone and there are fewer young Tailors that make exquisit products with it’s own character.
I share the opinion of most readers though in regards that I would not want a cotton suit. I’m not a fan ot this used look and tend to step away from cotton trousers as well. I think they are just to hard to look, after especially if you’re not a fan of rumpled trousers.
Would you mind sharing pictures of this suit (maybe together with the suit from Caliendo) in future when it will be used more? I’m interested to see how it ages. Maybe I’ll change my opinion 😉
Sure
Lovely suit but very pricey.
Nice post. As always, Simon, you offer thoughtful and enjoyable reading. Thank you.
When seeing this suit, noticing it’s traits that are intended to contrast or stand out – peak lapels/patch pockets, DB/cotton, navy color/casual suit, etc. – it makes me wonder if you’re beginning to accept more “dandy points” in your look these days?
(I can’t recall the post where you referenced the phrase “dandy points,” … maybe something like “there’s only so many dandy points I can accept…” Whatever it was, made me laugh out loud and it has stayed in my mind ever since.)
Thanks. Yes, I know what you mean, but it’s still not as dandy as many, particularly in cotton. And I did just write about an SB flannel as well!
Hi Simon,
Thank you for the review of this lovely suit! I do have two questions:
1. Do you think the jacket could be worn on its own?
2. As to the side adjusters you seem to prefer, do you really think they are better than the buttons in general or is it just about your own quirk?
For tailors, cotton is indeed very hard to deal with. And yet very suitable to Summer!
By the way, this kind of review is what we, PS readers, should expect from bloggers!
John
Thanks.
See comment above on wearing the jacket separately, and yes I think side adjustors are better than just waistband buttons in general. It gives you more range and doesn’t distort the front of the trouser
I think I have to say the Caliendo one seems a better fit by miles, although it might be the photos. This is the first time you commission anything from Musella right? I guess that may be part of the reason.
The hip area of the trousers looks good though. I’d rather keep the line than opting for a narrower cut.
Yes, good.point on being first suit
I like the fact that you are reviewing more casual suits but I remain unconvinced about cotton as a suit fabric. I just don’t like the way it creases.
A good linen creases in a nice louche way whereas straight cotton just looks like it’s been badly ironed.
Also, I think the shirt & tie are too formal.
Beyond that, it is well cut and as always, the DB style suits you.
After seeing the previous Dembech post, I was anticipating a very questionable commission (that high-contrast, medium-density check seems so busy), but I absolutely love the way this turned out. There’s something youthful about the crispness of cotton (at least in the first couple hours of wear) that goes well with this shade of blue. I would have gone for a more on-trend slim cut in the body and sleeve to further extend the impression—a personal taste issue for sure.
Also glad you didn’t go with the fasten the last row route here.
Thanks.
A note on wear – I always review things and photograph them when they have been worn for at least a few full days. Showing crisp, just pressed tailoring is pointless and unrealistic
I have to say that I have always shied away from having a double breasted suit made but this could change my mind. Very, very nice and it also has a wonderfully relaxed feel about it. Now if I could just find a few thousand euros down the back of the sofa…
Do you have a picture of the trousers on without the jacket? Im interested is seeing pleated cotton trousers that don’t look dorky. In the past it seems that you were more opposed to pleated trousers. Any reason for the change of heart?
No, sorry.
See above in comments on the pleats – it was more a challenge with Gianfrancesco
Firstly I like the suit and, as always, the review is excellent. However, as a long term reader I am slightly concerned at the growing sense of narrow (by design), slightly scatter-gun approach (what aim is the commission?). You now have many double breasted suits and well tailored SBs. If commissioning in cotton why not go with something a little more louche? Additionally, whilst I understand the logic of research, there seems little planning in the overall componentry of your wardrobe. Beyond people such as Bunny Roger we, in the main, commission for purpose, with the odd fancy or whim to add interest. I seek not to criticise but to question the shape, logic and purpose of the commissions (another DB, another grey flannel coming up) – what gap are you seeking to fill, what purpose are you seeking to address in the commissions. Repitition of well made, similar style DB and SB may serve to explore Italian tailoring but does little to expand our ideas on variation of style. Returning recenly from Italy I was struck by the use of differing textures and fabrics in suiting – many of which had an ‘English look’ (tweed, gun club check, cord). Not an unfair question given how many people look to PS for inspiration and wish to know how to build a wardrobe beyond blue and grey business suits.
Thanks. It is a good question, and while there isn’t a big, multi-year strategy, I am always filling a hole.
For example, I don’t have a smart Neapolitan suit, and only one grey flannel SB suit. And I don’t have a navy cotton – I had one years ago from Choppin & Lodge, but it was a mistake to have it in so structured a style.
It’s interesting that you consider the range of commissions narrow. I don’t feel that personally, having tan-cord suits, green-covert suits, royal-blue flannel suits etc. I also have plenty of tweed (brown Harris, green Harris, pale-blue Shetland etc). But I’m not much of a fan of windowpane checks or gun club checks – a little too old-fashioned and rural for me.
I am relatively conservative in my tastes, and work in an office most days – so most of my tailoring is for a professional environment, not a louche one of leisure. Something like this DB navy cotton, where anyone else would be in navy SB worsted, just pushes at those professional dress codes without being over the top. Most importantly, I also find it’s something a lot of readers respond to, given many of them work in an office of some sort or other.
Hope that helps.
Lovely suit! Did I read correctly that the sleeves are unlined? can I ask how you find that in day to day use? I’ve always thought with lighter summer jackets, in cotton, linen or hopsack, having the sleeves unlined would be more comfortable in the often intense summer heat of southern Europe or Asia.
Yes, that’s right.
I find they work well – no pulling or catching on the shirt. But I’d only recommend that with cotton or perhaps linen. I’ve had it on wool or cashmere too, and it’s annoying.
To be honest, I haven’t noticed much of a different in terms of heat though. I’ve worn lined and unlined sleeves in the heat and I don’t notice anything – there is a difference I’m sure, but it is small.
Thanks for the response. Whilst informative I think that I am asking for more commentary as to why you commissioned, where it will fit in your wardrobe and what purpose it will serve (you covered this in your response…for work, something to differentiate from worsted, a replacement for the Choppin suit – this all adds up to a logical choice but unknowable before your statement). As for the ‘English look’ being old fashioned the Autumn retail offering of 2017 reflects this very look (though it may not be to your taste). It might be that a new generation of buyers is discovering these cloths and patterns for the first time…(30s/40s tweed gave way to 50s club checks to 60s mod sharkskin then to 70s velvet and man mades etc…)…I think we have passed peak tweed and are now on to club again.
Thanks, and I’ll try to include such comments in the future.
Interestingly among tailors and brands I see far more Harris and Donegal tweed these days. Gun club has been a fashion, particularly among online enthusiasts, but seems to be dying out a little.
Thank you Simon – that would be great. The science of building a wardrobe is an interesting one – your insights will help. I also appreciate your comments re. cloth – could this be expanded into a piece addressing the fashion and style of cloth at point of sale; where do mills and tailors see the current direction of pattern and colour development going.
Dear Simon
Two more questions for you, when are you going to try Brioni and Kiton bespoke?
Secondly, what do you think about the big price difference between bespoke shoe makers, particularly English ones?
Regards
Gohar
Hi Gohar,
I have tried Kiton bespoke, with some slightly poor results. Have a search.
On the latter point, you’re right there has been an increasing disparity in recent years, particularly as various costs have gone up (particularly leather) and people have taken decisions on whether to pass those to the customer or not. To be honest, while price is still very important, I’d happily pay more for a shoemaker I liked the style of and trusted – particularly if I already had a good-fitting pair of shoes from them. That well-done last is gold dust.
Dear Simon
Thanks for your reply.
Kiton was made to measure or actual bespoke? What about trying Brioni bespoke?
I was referring for example the price difference between George Cleverley and Gaziano and Girling bespoke. I remember reading your article on your Bemer bespoke shoes, when you wrote they were the best fitting shoes you have ever had and they are in comparison cheaper than English bespoke shoe makers.
Regards
Gohar
It was Kiton’s highest level. They don’t really do bespoke – it’s all just a variation on their standard make, with variations in quality and handwork, for example a hand-padded chest.
To be honest I don’t have much interest in trying Brioni, as most real, traditional bespoke tailors I cover are better quality and cheaper.
Bemer is a bit cheaper, yes, but a large part of that is being in Florence rather than Mayfair
Dear Simon
Once again thanks for your reply.
I think you will find that Brioni are a real traditional bespoke tailor as their worldwide bespoke customer base of 20000+ will testify. Just because they have become a worldwide brand does not mean they have forsaken their traditional bespoke roots. They offer bespoke both in Milan and Rome and their master tailors fly all over the world taking bespoke measurements.
On the point of Kiton their K-50 is the highest suit they offer approximately $50000, if memory serves me correctly the Kiton you had made was done via Harrods and the person who took your measurements (manager of the Kiton store on Clifford Street), is neither a cutter or a tailor?
Regards
Gohar
Hi Gohar,
Thank you. I was told the Brioni service was not full bespoke, but I don’t have personal experience of it, so happy to bow to your knowledge if you do. Hard to make an argument for good value though.
On Kiton, yes it was through Harrods but the process was the same as being in the Kiton store in London. The initial measurement and consultation was done by the head of the production from Naples (though himself not a cutter), the first fitting by the manager of the London store, and the second by a member of Harrods staff. The biggest issue was lack of consistency in experience, I think, though regardless it’s again pretty much impossible to make a case for value for money there.
S
Dear Simon
Far from it, you are the expert , I am just a mere novice in comparison, but thank you all the same.
One more question for you. In your expert opinion does the Gaziano and Girling “Deco” line qualify as bespoke given the level of handwork involved or is it very high RTW?
Regards
Gohar
RTW.
Definitions of bespoke are tricky, but with shoes I think you need at least a hand-sewn welt and a personalised last. Deco doesn’t have either
Hi Simon
Would you wear these trousers as separates and could you wear them with your common projects? Or would you only do that with your Incotex?
Thanks so much!
Good question. I probably wouldn’t, but only just and largely because of the pleats.
Thanks so much Simon.
I’ve been thinking of cotton trousers for summer and love these and the Caliendo suit (which I think you said is from the same bunch). Sounds like something flat fronted might work out.
Thanks again!
Hi Simon,
Thanks for your great work on Permanent Style. What an excellent resource it is.
I have two questions for you. 1. Have you ever had a two button double breasted jacket made? Or seen one done well? I’ll be getting married next May and am very interested in having a suit made in this style. Why? The wedding will be in Jamaica, and my thought was that a two button double breasted would give me the wrap and silhouette of double breasted (which I love) while retaining a lightness and casualness because of its having two buttons instead of four or six. (The wedding will be a fun and understated and casual kind of event.) I’m imagining something like a navy fresco. I’d also consider one button sleeve cuffs, which somehow feels of a piece with the two button stance. 2. I’m keen on having a Neapolitan tailor make this suit for me. I have somewhat broad shoulders and have always liked the way an unstructured jacket hangs on them. I’m also keen on the way the neapolitans do trousers. I’ll go for a single outward facing pleat with a relatively thick waistband. Do you have a sense of which tailor might be best for this job? Cost is a factor. I’ll be pushing the limit to pay more than 3000 euros, and would prefer to pay less. Ive considered Solito, who will be in NY (where I live) next week… but I would consider getting myself to Naples if necessary.
Thanks in advance for your counsel.
Hey
1. No, only years ago with one in HK. And then I had a four-button at Poole. To be honest, I’d stick to six. Just try to get buttons without too much contrast.
2. Sounds nice. I’d recommend Solito at that price, yes. I don’t know any others I’d recommend at that price
Dear Simon,
It is a lovely suit and has great style. I would like to ask you to elaborate on why you do not like the M. Dembech single-breasted style? I have been trying to figure out what I find a bit off in the style, but the pictures on Instagram are probably not the best source. For me, it is related to how the lapel rolls but again, I cannot judge it fairly. The double breasted are simply stunning.
Best Regards,
Alex
Hi Alex,
I find it hard to pin down myself why it doesn’t appeal so much. I think it’s the relatively square shoulder perhaps, which could be more suited to a DB. But I’d have to carefully compare, even measure, one to another jacket to really understand I think.
S
Hi, have a beautiful sky blue cotton jacket from Duchamp, question is, what material and colour trousers to wear with it, you’ve certainly made me aware. Please.
I would try cream and beige first. Then also a light grey and a dark green. Hope that works for you!
I just watched the Jacket Required video on Gianfrancesco. I love it. Such charm in his shop with his magnificent old father. I wish I was part of it. There is softness in his work. And I very much appreciate the suit he made for Simon.
Dear Simon,
1. How do you find the pleats on these trousers?
I understand that cotton doesn’t keep a crease but does this mean that the pleats don’t work or that they open up?
2. I know that you often mention you dislike pleats. What makes you order pleats from some makers/commissions?
The finishing and style of the suit is great.
Thank you
Alex N.
1. They’re ok. They still open up though, and probably more than with wool as it’s lightweight cotton.
2. When I’m trying a tailor for the first time, often I go with their house style. Partly out of personal interest, and partly because it produces a better summary for Permanent Style
You stated that the sleeves are 1cm too short but it would be easy for Gianfrancesco to lengthen them. Is it easy because he will have left an excess of cloth tucked inside the cuff or is there a straightforward way to add material without it showing? And did you have them lengthened in the end?
Yes, there is always material left inside the cuff to lengthen, although it is usually better to do so from the shoulder, as then the cuff buttons don’t change in their relationship to the end of the sleeve.
No, I haven’t had it done yet. I was planning to go to Milan in March, but that obviously got postponed. It is also a small point.
Hello Simon,
Is this suit also in a 9 oz. cotton from Holland and Sherry like your Elia Caliendo? Attempted to find the details but was unable to. Thanks.
Yes, same range of 9oz cotton gabardine
Hi Simon,
Do you regret going for a patch pocket on this suit ? Looks quite good for an informal db suit I think.
Thanks !
I’m unsure about it – I wouldn’t say I regret it, but it might have been nicer with flapped pockets, yes
Certainly makes it easier to wear as a separate no ?
I wouldn’t wear it as a separate really. The jacket is too smart/sharp
Yes! Thanks a lot !
Hello,
I would like to know the colour of tie you are wearing in Musella Dembech suit.
Thanks
Hi. It’s a pale-brown linen
Hi Simon,
Sorry to dig into this old piece. You’ve written several rewiews of cotton suits, from 9oz to 13oz. Could you tell what is your take enventually ? I am interested in thé W bill 13oz, but it might be a mistake. Sûre you can help. Best regards.
Nothing is too old! This a reference library, not a social stream.
I much prefer the lighter, 9oz.
Hi Simon,
I have probably commented on this suit before, I go back it often- a masterpiece I think, and for me, next to the green linen from Gieves, the absolute pinnacle of modern tailored style in my eyes.
I have a different question though- in some of the shots (particularly the final one), your shirt is pulling around and under the tie area into a kind of triangle. Seemingly starting at the collar points.
I have several shirts from luca that do this too. It is not something I have on my other shirts however. That may be to do with fabric, as my shirts from luca are all finer and less casual than my others, but I am curious if you have noticed and categorised this, or perhaps found a way to avoid this in your shirts? It’s something I find quite unattractive on my own shirts and have often thought to ask about.
Thanks Chris.
To be honest, I think it can happen on any shirt, but I think it’s a little more likely when you have a soft and lightweight cloth, as this linen is. It’s basically just sticking a little on the inside of the jacket, and getting held in place.
It may also have to do with the cut, and the tie pulling on the collar. But I would say I don’t think it’s a thing worth focusing on. A shirt is rarely going to sit very cleanly underneath in that way.
Thankyou Simon.
That makes total sense, and i will take the point on board not to focus on it! Sometimes it is hard to know what is worthy of an alteration and what isn’t. Fabric and tailoring are mysterious things.
Very true Chris. I even find that myself – it’s always good to have someone else as a sanity check!
Hi simon, I don’t currently own any db jackets and have been meaning to add one to my collection. I currently own 3 sports coats (all single breasted, a blue, navy and dark brown). In my mind, i was thinking a navy hopsack DB would be most useful. However, I recently came across this anthology DB (https://theanthology.net/shop/sport-jacket/linen-sandstone) and I like the style of it and the color looks interesting. I’m wondering though if you think it will truly be versatile/useful if this is the only DB i will ever own for quite a while? I’m not concerned about tthe fabric as I live in a humid country and even when I travel to cooler climates, I don’t feel cold that much and I supposed I can add a turtleneck underneath or layer something like a barbour over.
Hey Shem,
Yes that looks nice. It’s obviously going to be less smart than navy, but I think it would be as useful otherwise. I’d put it in the same category as oatmeal in terms of what it could go with – which of course we’ve talked about in previous posts.
Hello simon im interested at milanese tailors these days what do you think about yukiinoue ? Did you saw his cloth?
I don’t know him I’m afraid, sorry Chris
He’s Japanese… 😀
Hi simon is a navy cotton a good idea for a first db jacket? Especially one to be worn more casually? I saw some cottons (moleskins) make quite nice Dbs that look quite rugged and casual.
A DB is a tricky one to wear casually – not impossible, but it will often look pretty smart, even in a casual cut. I also don’t have much experience with moleskin. I’m not a huge fan of it, but then for that reason I haven’t tried it much.
In general I think this is the kind of area where it is hugely useful to see something already made up, by the tailor or getting a RTW version
Hi simon when doing double breasted jackets do you do the shoulders slightly more narrow than usual? I did a mtm db with tehe anthology and i find the jacket is perfect in the shoulders when buttoned. However shem unfastened i find dbs open up more than single breasted jackets and the shoulder extends slightly out of my shoulder bone
No I don’t Shem, that’s always going to happen when you wear something like that undone, just embrace it. After all you’ve immediately lost a lot of the shape through the body too, it’s now more of a draped piece than a fitted piece of tailoring
Hi simon i have a mtm anthology db and notice the collar is pretty high and snug as compared to my rtw jackets (i dont own any bespoke or mtm jackets before this anthology one).
While it feels great initially, i soon notice that it quickly becomes very uncomfortable over time and makes me feel almost nauseous with the collar pushing against my neck. I feel this acutely when the jacket is worn open. The issur is mitigated when i button it up. Do you think this is an issue of the collar being too high or just that more fabric hangs from the neck/shoulder when the jacket is open?
Also when wearing dbs, is it faux paus to wear it only with the jigger fastened?
It’s hard to say remotely – it may just be the fact that the bespoke is more structured and shaped, and you’re simply not used to it. It does sound like from your reaction that perhaps you’re concentrating on it a little too much?
On DBs with different buttons done up or not, see this chapter of the Rules section
Hi Simon, I’m currently debating getting a similar navy cotton suit in a summer weight. I was just wondering if you could comment on how much the fabric has faded/softened, and perhaps if there are any major differences in the shade of color in the years you’ve had this suit? Thank you!
I haven’t worn it intensively, so it’s hard to tell, and it’s only been cleaned once. But in those 30-odd wears and a clean it hasn’t changed noticeably at all
Thanks Simon. I was just curious if the cotton softened/feels more lived in as I have a pair of cotton trousers from Dugale, about 11oz, which still feels quite stiff after quite a number of wears.
Also, is it common practice for tailors to use more handwork/decorative stitching for cotton suits? I recall one of your old posts on coarse vs fine cottons where Nicoletta Caraceni mentioned elevating cotton into ‘something higher’ via finer finishing
Hey Luke,
Italian cottons, and this is a little lighter too, will be softer. They also soften with washing/cleaning, but English ones may well be denser and not do so as much.
It’s not standard practice to do that on cottons, no, more just Nicoletta’s approach