Are bespoke shoes worth it?
Every time I do a review of bespoke shoes, the question comes up as to whether they're worth the money. Whether bespoke shoes in general can really be worth it, given the little issues I often report.
My short answer is that, in my experience, they are not worth it unless you're in for the long haul.
Don't commission one pair of bespoke shoes, from a famed and distant craftsman, and expect them to solve all your issues. It's very unlikely.
I've overheard so many guys talk about dreaming of using a maker - usually Japanese - and how everyone says they're the best. That those shoes will finally be perfect (unlike the others they've tried). It's hard to hear.
However, I do think bespoke can be worth it - and highly pleasurable - over the long term. If you work with one maker for a while, and will regularly need dress shoes, then it can develop into a really effective and enjoyable experience.
The real issue is that modern society is not set up for that kind of relationship.
The reason the famous shoemaker is unlikely to make you a perfect pair of shoes is that sculpting a pair, from scratch, to fit your particular feet, is surprisingly hard.
Much harder, in fact, than making a beautiful pair of shoes - and yet it's the aesthetics most people focus on.
Even among those in menswear, it's surprising how many talk about really ill-fitting shoes they've had from big names, which they'd never admit publicly.
These are nearly always a first pair. When I've used a shoemaker multiple times - as with Stefano Bemer for example - the fit has always improved on the second pair, and even on the third.
I must emphasise though, the fit has nearly always been better on the first pair than most ready-made shoes. So it's still a good fit. It's just not perfect.
Perfection comes slowly, because fitting is tricky. You can't see how the foot is inside the shoe (unlike tailoring); you can't adjust the fit much after the shoe is made (unlike tailoring); any issue with fit can cause actual, excruciating pain (unlike tailoring).
Plus, as some shoemakers say, you have to 'fit the mind as well as the foot'. People vary in how they like shoes to fit, but they don't necessarily realise how they're different. And even if they do, they've probably never had to communicate it.
When men wore dress shoes every day of the week, and rarely used more than one maker, this didn't matter.
Within two or three years, you'd have a great last and could order shoes made on it any time you wanted. That would be your experience for the rest of your life, for decades.
You also had a maker that knew you personally, that would be very good at repairing and refurbishing their own shoes, and so on. Fashions also changed less, so there was less risk of shoes looking out of date. It still happened (old industry magazines show that clearly) but a lot less.
There are many reasons that doesn't work today. Men wear fewer dress shoes; they want to try more makers; fashions change more; it's less likely the maker is local; and, relative to the income of the guys that aspire to them, the shoes are more expensive.
(They're actually probably cheaper relatively than they used to be, but everyday working Joes like you and me didn't used to shop at top West End makers.)
Even with all this, bespoke shoes today can be wonderful.
Making them is both an art and a craft.
It involves actual sculpture, for God's sake - sculpting of an artistic, idealised form of your foot in the shape of a wooden last.
The skill of then making them is an amazing combination of strength and delicacy. Tiny stitches made by calloused hands.
And the resulting object is also a piece of art in itself. There is no other area of menswear where some people actually buy the shoes to look at them more than wear them. Or where there are companies that only make versions that are works of art - that cannot be worn.
If you do wear them, the shoes are also one of the few pieces of clothing that get better with age, that become both more beautiful and more distinct with time.
It's no wonder they can sometimes feel like a fetish.
Ready to wear is wonderful too, but bespoke shoemaking is the zenith.
The problem is making it fit for purpose, today.
I encourage everyone that can afford it in the long term to try bespoke shoes. But if you can, I'd recommend to:
- Try as few makers as possible
- Accept that none of those first pairs will be perfect
- Patronise a local maker, or one to whom you will have regular access
- Once you have one you love, slowly build a small collection of classic shoes, that you will therefore use and wear for a long time
- Along the way, talk to your maker, establish a relationship
Shoemakers can help here too, I think, for example by shortening waiting times as much as possible.
I also think an adjusted last system or RTW make on a bespoke last, rather than full bespoke, is a good option as long as expectations are managed well.
A friend recently asked me whether he should save up for a pair of bespoke shoes. He'd had bespoke suits, shirts and invested in a lovely dress watch. But he wanted to try shoemaking.
I advised him against it. He was only ever going to buy one pair, and I couldn't help feeling, after all that money and all that waiting, that he was going to be disappointed.
In a follow-up article, I’ll walk through how I would have approached my bespoke shoe journey differently (as a regular customer).
Note: There are of course many other advantages to handmade shoes, including the strength of saddle stitching, the ability to resole more often, the fitted arch support and so on. Here I’m intending to reflect my experience and give advice, rather than go into them all. (Unlike this piece on bespoke tailoring.)
Shoes pictured, top to bottom, with links to relevant articles:
- Gaziano & Girling bespoke adelaides
- Yohei Fukuda chelsea boots
- Stefano Bemer bespoke oxfords
- Cleverly lastmaking
- Gaziano & Girling patina
- Gaziano & Girling (Daniel Wegan) bespoke loafers
- Masaru Okuyama bespoke oxfords
At last, the truth is out – they aren’t worth it,
My one bespoke adventure with Berluti in Paris damn nearly crippled me !
Your wallet or your feet, or both?
No he didnt say — they are not worth it — Nuances ! He said it is a skill and craft which is based on a long term association. It takes the shoemaker time to be able to mould your shoe in accordance with the shape, form and structure of your foot. The type of leather, the bench grading, the current fashion all play a part on the road to perfection — hand made bespoke shoes are well fashioned as when eventually when your atelier gets it right — it will be like heaven sent to wear them –you wont want to take them off.
Thanks for the honesty on this. Is the logical progression not that a good compromise is to go for high end MTM? It won’t be perfect, but something like the Gaziano MTM is definitely a step up from the RTW and, while it certainly isn’t cheap, it isn’t SO expensive that it makes you cry when it isn’t perfect…
KJ
Yes, I think something in that area – MTO, MTM, adjusted last – depending on how difficult your feet are to fit for that particular style.
Yes, Edward Green is probably realistically the best option. Too bad their styles are so dull.
Hi Simon, there is one more factor which puts me, at least, off bespoke shoes and that is knowing how the details will look in reality. I think small details, because the area being focused on is so concentrated, can be extremely important in how a shoe looks, and the overall impression created. Even in a RTW house which one likes, say Edward Green (whereas, despite the evident skills Gaziano & Girling are “too much” for me), there are some models one likes more than others – and one can focus in on these, and try to reason why, when one can see them in the shop. I imagine that this is much more difficult in a bespoke making environment; even if there are samples from which one can choose individual elements there is still uncertainty whether those elements will fit together in the way one hopes. It’s a bit like commissioning a painting – however much I’ve discussed with the artist beforehand I am always disappointed; buying ready-made (and this is not a tribute to modern quick-fix) there is very little gap between expectations and reality. And that gap is always painful when one has (perhaps unrealistically) high hopes.
Good point Triskel. I think that’s a good lesson for all bespoke – to have more models on display to look at. Much more chance of expectations being met that way, even if it’s obviously an extra cost
Yes, why the major London shoe makers can’t find a place in NY to show just one of everything they make is beyond me. Leffot isn’t really good enough for that.
I totally agree. It’s a shame they’re the only place selling Edward Green now, and they only stock a few models. I can’t imagine EG wouldn’t do well opening a shop in New York.
Probably because as and where they are with the labor they can get they they can all they can make presently without the bother of the NY bureaucracy/taxes etc.
Is it true that “everyday working Joes” wouldn’t shop at top West End makers back in the day? (By which I mean, say, the mid-century era.) It’s well known that income distribution has diverged sharply since the 1980s. It used to be the case that both a City banker and a senior Whitehall official would get their suits on Savile Row. Now only the former can afford that, barely. Over the last few decades we have witnessed an explosion of extreme luxury and a hollowing out of the upper-middle levels of the market for clothes and such. I’m afraid bespoke shoemakers went the ultra-luxury way. This means both that the mid-level ones disappeared, and that the top-level ones tend to aim for a clientele for whom money isn’t much of an object. Or at least that’s my impression.
Yes, I think that’s broadly right.
Both those types of men may well have bought bespoke shoes at this level in the past, but I’m talking about men who are usually younger and often less wealthy. It doesn’t seem odd for a 20-something who is not an lawyer to aspire the best bespoke shoemaking in the world.
Remember also that back in the 1950s and earlier “senior Whitehall officials” often came from very privileged/wealthy backgrounds, and their lifestyles were to a large extent independent of whatever meager salary they received from the public purse. It is indeed not that long ago that Foreign Office positions in many Western European countries didn’t pay any salary at all! They were positions intended for the aristocracy.
S
I didn’t realise that. Thanks
When you say that the bespoke shoe makes went the ultra-luxury way, this might create a wrong impression in some readers that they were greedy or something like that.
My impression is that bespoke shoe makers are usually earning an average wage at best even when the prices of their products are so high. Just because it takes so many hours to produce a single pair of shoes. If you consider that for normal employees in Europe the work year has around 220-230 days (after deduction of weekends, state holidays, 20-30 days of paid vacation), this makes 1800 hours per year.
How many pairs of bespoke shoes can you make in 1800 hours? 10 to 30 maybe. Even with high prices this is not a mind blowing revenue and when you deduct VAT, materials, rent, income taxes and insurances, this leaves a not that high net income.
The shoemakers that have more money are usually the ones that offer a RTW line or something similar which allows them to scale.
One of the things you fogot to mention is that most bespoke shoemakers possess little to no orthopedic knowledge and thus don’t really know how to make a correctly fitting shoe. They will mirror the foot by producing the last but will ignore any defomities of the feet that need orthodics and in some cases even worsen them. I’ve recently seen photos of a pair roduced by the winner of this ominous world shoemaking championship and you could clearly tell that the shoes didn’t fit and even accentuated the wearer’s cavoid foot. He obviously accomdoated the problem but didn’t know how to correct it. And maybe even shouldn’t without proper knowlege and training?
Another problem is pricing. Much like bespoke clothing bespoke shoes are driven to new artisanal heights driving up the prices with details that aren’t really needed from a wearer’s standpoint. Added to that shoes are also the most vulnerable pieces you’ll wear all day. One little stumble or an unattentive person in line at the supermarket and you will spend your evening trying to polish scratces out of you 5k shoes.
Cheers Parker.
Personally I haven’t found the orthopaedic issue, but then I don’t have particular problems there. I think it’s more of an issue for those that do
Pricing is definitely a problem but then there is just very little in the mid-market, making bespoke shoes without the same finesse of finish, as you say.
On the vulnerability, though, I disagree. Shoes are meant to be worn and look better the more they are, no matter how many scuffs and scratches. That’s where much of the beauty is, as those things are treated and recover a but but are always there.
I can definitely appreciate that for country shoes etc, but is that definitely still the case for particularly smart shoes e.g. black captoe Oxfords? I always feel bad getting even a slight scuff on them whilst I wouldn’t worry for my casual shoes.
Yes I think so. Scuffs are inevitable, and mostly come out with brushing after use. Then, they come out nearly entirely when you next use cream or polish. But there will often be something still there, which adds to the character and the patina of the shoes, just like the polishing and any creasing.
Good shoes aren’t plastic, and they’re a lot more attractive for it.
Thanks, I will try to bear that in mind in the future. Might take some effort to remember though! I find I tend to see other people’s aged shoes as looking well-worn and beautiful yet I feel like my own haven’t done it ‘properly’. Perhaps just an inherent part of grass being greener etc.
Speaking of creasing, my black Oxfords have some very slight creasing on the toebox just before the captoe. Is this type of crease abnormal or just something that occasionally happens?
It’s hard to tell remotely on the creasing, but it might be because the toe puff isn’t long enough, and would be better if it was the same length as the captoe
I suppose we can agree that there is a difference between a healthy patina and scratches that really damage the uppers.
To the second point you might also add that there is little way to judge what you are given apart from some details. Showcases are a nice thing but wheter you get top quality or just an average product is hard to tell.
True.
On the scratches, people will differ a little on this, but actually I quite like even quite deep scratches. You fill them in when you polish, and they just add texture. I even like shoes (famously like those of Prince Charles) that have been patched because they’re so old and loved.
Let’s be real 95% of the shoes are not made to be comfortable, you’d think you don’t have any orthopedic issues, but I assure you, you do… Our shoe soles never match the plant of our foot.
I know that some bespoke shoemakers have built shoes around their customers’ custom orthotics, though the shoemaker will usually want to have the orthotic so that they can make sure to leave the appropriate amount of room in the shoe for it.
Shoes made for competitions are not made to fit well on anyone’s feet – they tend to be judged on difficulty and beauty; if you’re speaking of the shoes I’m thinking of, they definitely were not made for a real person! This is maybe unfortunate as fit is a big part of a shoemaker’s craft, however judging fit in a competition setting would also be extremely difficult.
I was talking about a pair that was made for an actual customer, not a competiton piece hence mentioning that the shoes pronounced the malposition of the foot.
Hi Simon, based on my experience, I would argue that bespoke suits, jackets and shirts are also only worth it if you’re in it for the long haul.
Thank you Andrew.
Personally, I think it is much easier to get value there in the short term, even though there are still very similar benefits in the long term.
There’s a better chance with a shirt or suit that you’re going to get something that fits well and you wear, even if you might change it next time.
Hi Simon, that’s correct if it’s true that most shoe makers cannot or won’t correct problems with the first pair. That is some that that would be a major issue for me as a potential customer of a shoemaker.
In my case, my shoemaker took back my first pair after a month or two of wear, and made me an entirely new pair free of charge, to correct some fit issues that I noticed after wearing the first pair. So I have fortunately not had issues with getting stuck with an unwearable or uncomfortable first pair of shoes. (They also did the same on my first pair of slip ons, since the fit is different than lace ups.)
They undoubtedly lost money on the first pair, but that has now been repaid many times over now that I have been ordering regularly for a number of years.
Thanks Andrew.
That attitude obviously varies with shoemakers – I haven’t found most to be that accomodating, particularly with small points.
Your experience also of course shows that the process really only works in the long term.
I assume bespoke shoemaking is a high margin high fixed cost business. If they have to do your first pair over in order to get a number of repeat orders, they haven’t really lost anything.
Yes Carrie, that was Andrew’s point. Unfortunately, not everyone orders lots of pairs from the same maker, so makers can’t afford to lose money always.
Also, bespoke is unfortunately not really high margin, unlike most fashion footwear
Was I unlucky to need this or lucky with my maker? My first pair was also remade due to fit issues. Having only worn RTW shoes before this I wasn’t even aware this could be done but I was told I should have brought them back immediately rather than trying to ‘break them in’. The second pair devolped a fault and were also remade – so not being helpful, that’s not been my experience.
Thank you Mark. In just my experience, I would say you were lucky to have them remade. But it is hard to say absolutely without knowing more about the issues there were. The bigger they were I guess the more likely any maker would redo them.
I agree with you regarding tailoring but disagree on shirts.
Providing you do your research and you like the ‘House Style’, tailoring can be a huge win out of the gate.
Sadly, my experience is not the same with shirts.
My favourites have been and are ‘Off The Peg’ that I’ve had altered. Particularly some of the PS iterations that I’ve found to be excellent.
Conversely my bespoke shirt adventures have all disappointed one way or another.
Thank you Jason
I think it is a matter of the degree of improvement over RTW or MTM. The fit of the first bespoke suit or shoes from a good maker should be better than what you get RTW or MTM. But it will not be as big of an improvement of what you get after you’ve been going to that maker for several years. After c. 5 years with the same tailor, shirt maker and shoe maker, the fit of my latest commissions is still improving versus my early ones as a result of tiny tweaks that we have made along the way.
Can we talk about the Charcoal trousers in the last picture please. I’m desperately after a similar pair in both colour cloth and weight.
Thanks
Details on them are in the article about Masaru’s shoes shown there, linked to above.
https://www.permanentstyle.com/2020/01/masaru-okuyama-bespoke-shoes-review.html
The key factor is finding a last that fits well. With so many options available from different shoemakers, if one can find a well-fitting last, then there is no need for any custom order which requires several trials and adjustments, not to mention the costs.
While it is tempting to try out different styles, if the shoe does not fit perfectly, I stay away from it, knowing, eventually, I will not wear it much.
Hi Simon, thank you for the Monday reading.
I have a question: if one was to look for a dress show, say a simple captoe oxford, how much of the “slimness” does one gain from going how RTW? I believe that the ‘high end’ perception of bespoke shoes comes from the slimness of the shoe, specially on the waist. So if one was to take, for example, Yohei Fukuda RTW Oxford and a bespoke shoe on the same style, how much would one perceive the “slimness”?
It varies a lot with the maker, and a bit with your foot, but for me, there wouldn’t be much difference between RTW Yohei and a bespoke pair.
A lot will also depend on where you live, what makers you actually have access to, and what your particular fit requirements are. I live in Poland, and bespoke here – while by no means as exquisite as, say, in Japan – is much, much cheaper. Still very expensive (we also earn much, much less than people in the UK or US), but the price/income ratio is lower. One could probably quibble over whether all makers really do bespoke (I remember an old post where you said that the makers here don’t do fittings – which is largely true, although this year I found one that does), but it’s a marginal point.
For me specifically, taking into account that I can have a bespoke pair for the price of Edward Green RTW, it’s absolutely worth it. I’ve tried multiple brands, from low-end likes of Crownhill, through Yanko and TLB Mallorca, up to Crockett and Alfred Sargent – and nothing ever fits. My pinky toes are always in pain, and after a few hours I want to toss the shoes and never look at the them again (interestingly, I don’t recall any such problems from the long-gone days of buying mall shoes for 40 quid – oh, the perils of elegance).
But even though bespoke makes sense for me, it’s absolutely true that you have to wait for the results. I’ve had two pairs made by one maker, and even after multiple corrections they still hurt my toes. Now I’ve tried another maker and already the first pair is much better, I can actually walk a lot for the entire day and not be in excruciating pain. Thank heavens!
I have similar fit experiences with both RTW & MTM. Good quality shoes apply too much pressure on the small toe, whereas cheap high street brands often provide ample space. The price of elegance is one I refuse to pay, I value my foot health far too highly!
After a number of failed MTM ventures & hours of research I’ve since learned that most people are happy to have their toes compressed by the shoe and experience no discomfort from this. Thus when engaging a shoe maker in future I now know that I need to be very explicit that I have unusual fit requirements with regards to the toes. Unfortunately it’s been an expensive road to reach this point.
My sense is that bespoke shoes (and perhaps bespoke in general) are best thought of as a hobby with the side benefit of some practical use. You build a collection of beautiful things. So I’m not sure that measures of value for money that are based on some sense of cost per use or similar are very helpful. Compared to practical alternatives (ie what else you could spend the money on) on that basis they are poor value. Unless what you’re buying is craft and beauty and a relationship and an experience. Rather than, say, buying a shoe.
Is there a reason why is making a last is left to craftsmanship, rather than being a technological matter of creating a machine that can accurately reproduce a 3 d model of a foot?
I can see that after the foot starts working and moving it will get more complicated, but not to get the basic shape of a foot carrying the body weight absolutely right seems primitive.
Lodger had a device that measured the foot pretty accurately. it was part of their ready for sale schtick
Unfortunately David, only part of it is about the foot itself, part about the shoe design (the front). Then, some people just prefer shoes to fit differently.
Lodger tried that machine, and it just didn’t work. And I also tried the same process with Rivolta in Milan, and it didn’t work either.
Very interesting article and discussion.
I think for many readers of PS it illustrates why we sometimes feel cut adrift on some articles particularly on shoes costing the price of a small used car.
Surely 3D printing and other technologies will in future avail a better fit ? But then will purists (shoe makers and wearers) consider such developments acceptable.
I for one would love to have shoes fitted for me, if for no reason, then to stop having to use insoles !
I think it’s unlikely that technology will ever be a good replacement. Partly because it’s actually such a hard thing to fit and tweak to a person’s mind and style, but also because it’s actually such a small market internationally for this style and quality of shoe
3D technology could, in theory, play a role in the development of a bespoke last. It has been used for some time to model musculoskeletal features for surgical planning and in the development of orthotics and prosthetics. However, the processes and techniques are complex. There is the accuracy of scanning, followed by appropriate use of post processing software of the scan data to develop the program that ultimately drives the 3D scanner. Then there is the scanner itself and the material it uses. All of these things will affect the accuracy of the final model. The kind of kit and technical expertise involved might well be beyond the financial and, perhaps, technical capability of a bespoke shoemaker. We’re certainly not talking about the kind of technology one might buy for use at home or in a school. It’s quite common for a 3D model to need some tweaking and finishing by hand. I can imagine that an appropriate 3D scanning, data processing and manufacturing system could produce a basic bespoke last which would then need to be hand-finished and adjusted by a shoemaker. Costs are coming down, but even if the shoemaker could afford it – and we’re probably talking six figures, in terms of costs, along with potentially significant investment in training, materials and maintenance – I’d be surprised if would be regarded as a sensible investment for a shoemaker.
I completely agree. It is available already for horse shoes.
Not exactly shoes, but whole bespoke vs mtm. Let’s say jackets. If a mtm maker is able to adjust armhole and collar and make other adjustments for every subsequent order, AND I’m in it for the long haul, somehow I don’t think bespoke fit by third jacket would be worth it… wouldn’t same thing be about shoes? If a maker can adjust last order by order, shouldn’t fit by third pair be very close to bespoke?
i can’t recall you making 3 or more mtm jackets from same maker and compare the final one with bespoke? Maybe time for another experiment?
MTM doesn’t tend to improve and change like that because there are fewer things to alter. No matter how many numbers you enter into a form, there’s never as much flexibility as with bespoke – for good and for bad.
Also, much more fundamentally, there is a lot of hand work with bespoke that affects fit which no MTM ever does – see this post
In my experience, bespoke tailoring is much more worth it for a single jacket, for example, and I wouldn’t have any hesitation recommending that.
There will no doubt be many reasons why a ‘cast’ of the foot couldn’t/shouldn’t be taken as a starting point, but for ages I’d pictured slipping your foot into some kind of mould to start things off! If it works for Bigfoot ‘n all that…
I agree that for the long haul, bespoke is probably an enjoyable process; but that timescale is invariably very long if the current wait times of, what, 12m+ per pair is the long-term norm?
And there was a comment above re. G&G and MTM – I’ve not known them to have a MTM service, but I think they should – particularly to stay competitive against a lot of the remote MTM programs coming out of the far east. Their Optimum range is clearly extremely high quality, but really pricey. I’d rather pay an upcharge from RTW for an MTM service that allows all the style flexibility G&G are famed for, but with some modest last adjustments.
Anyway, back to bespoke shoes – an interesting perspective – thanks for sharing.
No worries.
Some makers do use moulds you submerge almost half your foot into. They’re really only for the outline of your foot, but still – even then few makers use them.
I’ve never bought bespoke shoes, but I’ve certainly had bespoke clothing turn out to be ill-fitting, especially if it’s the first item commissioned from a tailor. Jumping around from one bespoke maker to the next is going to be unfruitful. I’ve also had more success with local tailors than travelling ones, and have been fortunate to find a local tailor (through Permanent Style!) who does great work and who I get along with. Minor adjustments just seem to be easier with a local maker, for both them and for myself.
Terrific piece Simon. And I’ve been waiting for this one. I’ve read your pieces on bespoke shoes, and how they aren’t *quite* perfect and have always come away from these thinking “why on EARTH does he buy them then?”. It looks like it’s because you want to, not because there’s a massive bang for your buck.
There’s a lot in that. And I really, really love many of my bespoke shoes. They are truly beautiful and distinct. They add elegance and refinement to smart clothing in a lovely subtle way. But, I’ve had many made, and often 2-3 from one maker
Those that fit, when the maker has perfected the last are probarbly the best things that I personally own. The way my feet are supported when compared to RTW shoes is so superior I would not personally now consider wearing anything else to walk in.
In comparison the suits I wore for 20 years around the legal district in London whilst very comfortable will almost certainly not now post Covid be worn again. If ever we return to an office it won’t be more than once or twice a month and my office has now in any event gone casual. I can and do wear the bespoke shoes with casual (or suited) clothing every time I leave my home. The suits will now just gather dust.
BUT there are bespoke shoes that I hardly ever wear. They don’t hurt my feet they were however earlier on the journey and the fit is not as perfect as the lasts eventually became..I just don’t pick them up in the morning reaching always for the later lasted versions.
If you are going to travel on the journey of bespoke shoes I find myself disagreeing with you slightly on this one. It is IMHO worth it but I do however agree with you, it will unfortunately take more than one pair with each maker to arrive at that destination
Thanks Mark, really interesting.
It sounds like we do agree on shoes though? I say it is worth it, but mostly in the long term – and you’ve being doing it in the long term?
On tailoring we disagree I guess, but that might just be because I enjoy tailoring, or bespoke aspects of it, more highly?
I really like the suits I own but its a relfection on how my life has changed now not being office based 5 days a week and also that my employers decided on casual wear just before the onset of the pandemic. I just now dont have the occasion to wear them…a suit for a stroll to the shops to collect a pint of milk? It might be perhaps a bit much for my navy double breasted flannel chalk stripe.
Absolutely. I think suits will become more occasion wear for that reason – even if the occasion is a big meeting. And more corporate styles like chalk stripes will become less common too.
The best bespoke shoes are undoubtedly better looking than the best rtw, but I wouldn’t wear those shoes even if they were the same price as rtw. It’s like driving a fancy sports car: I don’t want to draw attention to myself in that way. A good rtw gets me all the comfort and style I need.
Interesting article. I’m interested to hear your opinion about if bespoke suites really are worth it. If you worked in a formal environment, law firm/accounting firm, and dress in a suit every day and have a good salary but far from fantastic. What would you recommend for people in general? Try to find a good rtw that fits you, mtm or even bespoke? I’ve always had entry level mtm suits (1 K EUR) and still paid more than my colleagues in general at my office. Ironically the best paid partners have cheap rtw suits that fits quite bad.
Yes, unfortunately that’s a recurring theme.
I’d say, in your situation, buy the best ready-made shoes you can afford. Perhaps around half the price of your suits
Yes, I generally go with C&J for my oxfords. But my question was about suits though. If you worked in a formal environment with an average salary and be sitting in you suit every day at the office and wears them out. What pricerange would you recommend for suits? I know it’s personal and all that…but in my opinion it’s a interesting question. Because it’s a better investment to buy better suits for sure. But with all things, wine for example, when you reach a certain level, more expensive is only is a fraction better. Saman Amel basic line for example or Caruso rtw, could that be a good level when you get best bang for buck for every day suits?
Oh I see Stefan, sorry.
It’s hard to pick an appropriate level, because as with most clothing, you get more and more ‘bang for your buck’ the cheaper you go. A £99 suit will probably be terrible, but it’s still great value pound for pound.
If you’re at the level it sounds like you are, though, I think the best thing is good quality RTW, altered, or a good basic MTM like Saman’s Toscana, yes.
And keep in mind there’s lots you can do to make sure the suits cope better with daily use: have two or even three pairs of trousers, never wear a suit two days in a row, brush and steam them but rarely dry clean, and so on.
Ok, thank you. And thank you for always taking your time and being polite. 🙂
My pleasure. Pleased it’s appreciated
Based on experience—totally agree. Unless you live in London and want to buy 3+ pairs, not worth it. Should limit to something unusual as well. No sense in getting something that looks like a typical RTW shoe just for a better fir. You won’t get it.
In my experience, some makers are good (Lobb London, Foster (assuming they still exist)), some are spotty (Cleverley-their US Trunk show is a total crap shoot), some worse (Gaziano).
You need to elaborate CARRIE.
Can you please explain why you say that Gaziano is the worst.
I have gone for MTM, was measured by Tony himself, discovered that I should be a 101/2, not a 12 shoe size, resolving a big problem with foot slippage. The first shoe vendor to nail this problem. My MTM, initially felt tight and now are stretching out well. Told me to come back to London if there are still issues. Very reassuring to me.
The team know their stuff, the best customer service that I have ever seen. Expensive yes, you get what you pay for.
Dear Simon! From what I recall you ordered mostly oxfords. Also in RTW you tend towards the oxford style. Is this fair to say? Did you ever thought this could be in conflict with your way of dressing that has become more casual? I wear my beloved oxfords with odd jackets and without a tie all the time and have never given it a thought. Then I saw Derek Guy mentioned sometime on his blog that oxfords should be reserved for full and formal suits.
I would be interested in your take on this. Thanks
Hi Alexander,
I commission mostly Oxfords and loafers bespoke, because they tend to be my smarter shoes and because derbys fit me much better.
Derek’s advice is sound in so much as an Oxford is smarter than a derby, and a suit is smarter than a jacket. But the lacing design is only one part of the story. Eg a brown suede Oxford on a road last is more casual than some black leather derbys.
Consider every aspect of the formality of the shoes and of the suit/jacket, and decide yourself which look good together
Quite interested to read the second article, I’ve just had a first measuring with a bespoke maker after decades of RTW shoes (mostly Alden, C&J, and J. Fitzpatrick). What motivated me was control of the styling and the possibility of all day comfort, though I have found it difficult to make specific decisions regarding style points.
Noted. Thanks Albert
Hi Simon. I really enjoy your articles. In fact, the article about Masaru Okuyama persuaded me to give him a try! I am curious as I await my first true bespoke pair as to whether the earlier, slightly less ideal fitting shoes (e.g., first pairs) can be improved fit-wise when they get resoled (i.e., do they get sort of re-lasted?). Thanks!
Hey Jordan,
Not usually, no, because the last itself won’t have been changed. It is possible to do that, and make small tweaks that way, but it is an extra and different piece of work to do actual relasting like that. I’m not sure if anyone does it, perhaps because the customer has largely accepted the fit by the time they get to that resoling stage – and most bespoke customers have quite a few pairs of shoes, so relasting doesn’t happen that often.
I probably have around 15-20 pairs of bespoke shoes from three different makers. The first pair I had made had some fit issues but there were also service issues that made me nervous about going back to that maker. I cut my losses and switched to another maker and the first pair was pretty much perfect. Most of my shoes have come from the 2nd maker.
I have also used a 3rd maker which has a better for boots than the 2nd maker. I initially went to them because I was looking to build up a collection more quickly than the 2nd maker could work.
For me it is all about fit. I have difficult to fit feet which need arch supports and RTW don’t work for me because I need to insert othoses which then cause heel slippage. Although I have played with some unusual designs (pigskin double monk boots!), most of the pairs have been entirely conventional and I could have found them RTW if that had been an option.
Thank you. It would be nice to know the makers, if you’re happy sharing. Perhaps just the ones you’ve been happy with?
Sure. Cleverley is maker 2 (shoes) and Gaziano & Girling maker 3 (boots).
Thanks
What’s your view on suede bespoke shoes? Do you think that the softness of suede gives a higher feeling of comfort and so could hide minor fit issues in a first shoe?
No, I don’t find that. I find suede shoes can be just as uncomfortable.
The style of the shoe can make a difference though – eg most people find it harder to find loafers that fit well, and that will usually go for bespoke ones as well. Whereas derbys are often the easiest, and oxfords in the middle. There’s an increasing range of adjustment that’s possible through the lacing.
In the last five year’s I’ve ordered 3 pair at Lobb St. James, the one’s they’re making now done by email. The experience has been about the shop, the history, the fitting, the Lobbs and the staff and of course the shoes, trees and even the bags. It’s a unique though expensive experience but for me the same as my Poole suits and Budd shirts. And traveling to London is part of it one I missed with the last pair.
Randy Ventgen
Washington State USA
Thanks Randy. Those are certainly all things you get more of with bespoke.
Hello Simon,
You’ve seen to have given short shrift to the socks and their makers. Surely they’re part of the wearing experience.
Some typos in there – are you saying I’m not saying socks are important?
My apologies- damned autocorrect. Meant to say that it would be good to include the socks label as well. The right pair of socks can make a huge difference in the shoe wearing experience
Ah, gotcha
Taking your entire footwear collection (RTW to Bespoke) and limited to those >£300. What have been your most and least worn pieces over the last 5 years? If could you mark each as RTW, MTO, MTM or Bespoke then that would be a helpful reference for me.
Nice idea Richard. I’ll include that in the follow-up article to this. Thanks
I find myself thinking about the follow up article.
Do you have any visibility on when you expect to publish it?
To me value and worth are something intrinsic and therefore individual to the wearer; (emotionally) deeper than just price.
It can start with the journey to purchase then change over an items life through layers of memories and fondness.
Very well put Richard.
The piece should be a couple of weeks – sorry, bit of a queue at the moment
Everything in the article is true.
And like always it is down to the personal situation.
For me bespoke shoes became the most beloved part of my wardrobe and if my house burns down and I have to start from the scratch, I will use my money for one bespoke suit, a number of MTM shirts and a number of bespoke shoes.
The joy of having the bespoke fit and comfort of the shoes is worth it for me, and I profit from this comfort on a daily basis even when wearing casual clothes like jeans and t-shirt, while in recent times I don’t happen to wear odd jackets that often to justify spending a lot of money on them.
And yes, definitely – it is better to stick to 1 shoemaker if possible. I have 2 – one local which is borderline a little bit out of my budget at the moment and one in Naples which is more affordable, but more inconvenient for fittings.
My cousin in Hong Kong tried a local bespoke shoe maker but they were completely uncomfortable and he never tried them again, he even winced at me as he described the pain so it must have been bad as he is a facially inexpressive type. He always maintains that Church’s make the best shoes as i sit opposite him in my Edward Green him none the wiser. I think higher end RTW maybe worth it over other clothes spending but i remain unconvinced of the sincerity of argument for bespoke shoes in all but a few cases. I.e especially oddly shaped fit not accommodated by MTO programs or somebody too rich for cost to be any issue.
Of course the main beneficiary of bespoke shoes is the owner due to fit, but similar to sculpture in museums that i’ll never own i can still appreciate the beauty of the craft.
They are both inspiring and aspirational, every time i see a Yohei Fukuda pair I take another look at his ready to wear line and start converting yen into sterling. I always used to think black shoes lacked character next to non black leather, but with these you can focus purely on the design. I’m fairly sure i’d be the best shod individual in my organisation with a pair.
If i’m prepared to for go an exotic holiday in foreign climes i can get a rtw pair. If i decide against having a 4-5k runaround car for town (which i might keep 5 years) then i can invest in a pair of bespoke shoes that, with resoling, will last me 20-40 years.
Alternatively, for this first world issue, i can upgrade my skills, move up the pay grade and be able to afford.
Yes because although you pay more they will last tenfold years longer
Nice article, it’s nice to have some realistic expectations before going into bespoke. But I have a question, not sure if you’ll be able to answer it. How much difference in fit can one actually expect by going with their first Yohei bespoke vs Yohei RTW?
Well, it depends on how well your foot fits the RTW really. If it fits it very well, not much will be different on the bespoke last. But if it doesn’t, the bespoke last and shape will have to be that much more different.
Hi Ian,
Before I started wearing bespoke shoes, I used to think that my RTW shoes are well fitting and comfortable.
When I got used to bespoke shoes and happened to put on some old RTW shoes, I was amazed how awful they felt.
What do I mean with this answer – at the beginning maybe you will not feel that much difference, but when you get used to bespoke shoes and don’t wear RTW for certain amount of time, then you will notice the real difference.
And even if it is a first pair, bespoke shoe makers usually do 1-2 pairs of fitting shoes before finalising your first pair of shoes. So even the first pair can turn out quite well.
Hi Simon, I found this to be a thoroughly refreshing and clear-eyed view on the value of bespoke. When you write about fashion, I often felt that you never quite appreciated or understood fashion to discuss it fairly. Notwithstanding that its faults like wastefulness are damaging the nature of it is fundamentally different from European based style, which is your forte.
But in an article like this I feel you bring much insight and experience that’s truly helpful. Sometimes I see people lamenting how unaffordable many of these are but I don’t think someone who looks to high-street brands as a touchstone of pricing is your audience. Some truly cannot afford these but they could always try to buy some vintage or pre-owned ones. Or at least they could follow it out of interest like I look at some beautiful houses and old cars. The others, I just don’t think they value it enough, which is not a criticism just their personal view on the relative worth of things.
So essentially, it’s a long winded thank you for your many posts over the years which have been very educating. If there’s one suggestion I could make, it’s that when you write about tailors like Saman Amel, for someone deeply into fashion and vintage styles, it is hard to find the novelty they bring and like a comment on the Adret post, I suspect you occasionally get caught in these circles and hype. Perhaps it’s necessary to bring some more perspective and consider things like ‘could this be done more affordably without hurting the quality of product’, ‘have similar styles been attempted outside of traditional tailoring’ etc.
Cheers
Thanks Ram. Very helpful feedback, and thanks for the point at the end about perspective.
Is anything worth the price you want to pay?
i just finished comparing this to nike sports shoes Reebok and a few other “high end” branded sports shoes.
Do your homework those who look down on bespoke footwear made to measure and by hand.
None of those brands which I mentioned have their prime footwear made in the country of the brand name nowadays.
None of those brands have their footwear delicately crafted from the finest leathers and take their time to craft something which will endure much time.
So when you consider what goes into making a extremely well made pair of brogues or the like then you check out what goes into and where sneakers are made, some brands are making a fortune.
There are some who would fork out three months wages on a carbon fibre bicycle yet drive a car production which costs even less.
Knocking the person for doing so is no ones business.
Those who choose to look good at the price they can afford is their choice.
I am all in favor of hand crafted products at a price. I only wish I could afford to wear them. That’s why there is a market for all types of people.
Good luck to the shoe trade and well made footwear.
Nicely put Ric. Somehow it’s hard to get your head around the fact that much cheaper shoes can have both a much bigger profit margin and make a lot more money.
To me they are absolutely worth it. I have been going to the same maker for 25 years. No pair has yet worn out (although several have been resoled multiple times and they are getting a bit worn). Amortizing the high front end cost over the long period of time and the pure pleasure I get from wearing them makes them worth it to me. Now, I still have to dress up for work… so I think that’s part of the deal.
On the topic of bespoke shoes Simon. Is it possible to make dress shoes with a “zero-drop” construction, while still keeping the same appearance? I ask since I have started wearing those zero-drop trainers for working out and am loving the feeling of not having foot being elevated all the time.
No, I don’t think so really Nicolas.
You can see that in the area of slippers/unlined loafers. Something like the Baudoin & Lange Lune is basically their Sagan shape but it has a much lower heel. It immediately looks like a slipper, and slightly odd out of the house. Same with a Belgian loafer.
Yes, this is as I expected. Oh well, one has to adapt to different circumstances as always.
Simon,
Liked the article. However, again and again, I notice that, Simon, your trousers are too short. They are just too short. On all the pictures, fully custom made, or others. It’s about 2-3cm though. Or is it just me…
Regards from Siena,
Samuel
Hey Samuel,
Well a lot of it is personal and subjective. Among the very best dressed, trouser length still varies from no break at the back, but a generous break at the front (so no sock is exposed when walking); to a trouser that only just touches the shoe when standing, and therefore swings up a bit whenever walking or just standing something other than stock still straight.
I prefer the latter, and that’s usually what I get and is shown. But there’s no absolute here, no big right or wrong, as we’re playing within fairly tight limits of moderation.
S
I just picked up my second pair of bespoke Cleverly’s. I live in London about half the time, and was able to pop in for fittings on short notice. It took two years for both pairs, but that was in large measure due to me changing my mind. (I was by no means an easy customer.) There was a small fitting issue with the first pair (my one foot is much larger than the other), this was caught during the first fitting, the last was altered, the shoe as well, the second pair was spot on (I ordered both pairs at once). Both pairs are very traditional, and if you looked at them, you would not realize they were bespoke, except for that exquisite (“banana”) shape unique to bespoke, but which most people will not perceive as such.
My experience confirms some remarks below. Until I had worn these shoes, I did not realize just how badly all my ready-to-wear fit. Effectively, I have always been wearing at least one size too big, and although that is partly due to the size difference between my feet, I think it’s just the way that one naturally compensates for an ill-fitting shoe whose appearance one likes at the time of purchase. I got used to sliding around a wee bit in my shoes, and thought that was normal. The feeling of these shoes is completely different. They feel like an exoskeleton, and they support my feet in a completely different way.
My most important lesson was this: I have had chronic problems with one foot since a battle with plantar fasciitis. (Tissues are long healed, but my gait never normalized). To my complete surprise, these shoes force my foot into the right shape, and improve my gait. They are not only the most beautiful shoes I have ever bought, but they have improved my health.
When I mentioned this to Adam Law, he was nonplused and said nothing. I suspect he was surprised that someone would be surprised that a well-fitting shoe would help someone’s feet, given that they have clients who come for just that reason.
As you can tell, I have only praise and admiration for what these people do. If I could afford to wear only such shoes, I would. (I can’t) And as it turns out, the reasons have very little to do with style, and everything to do with shoes and walking
At the same time, my experiences do shed some light, perhaps, on why the experience of trunk show customers (and I mean of all makers) is sometimes otherwise. There is a lot of back and forth, and sometimes (rarely) you need to show up before work can proceed. Many people are involved in the process, it’s complicated, and the whole idea of bespoke loses its meaning if you can’t be available to be measured when the data are needed.
Hi Simon,
I went into the Carmina store in NYC today fully prepared to buy my first two pairs of nice dress shoes. The plan was to get a black cap-toe oxford and some sort of brown loafer. Now, I have very wide feet, to the point where I needed to commission a bespoke pair of hockey skates earlier this week. They didn’t have very many EEE shoes for me to try in the store. I got to try the Rain EEE (I think) in a size 11, and they were super tight around the vamp which was causing a gap between my foot and shoe around my ankles. The loafers were a little better but still not great.
The man fitting my shoes recommended I get a pair made to order, but I’m not sure I want to go in blind like that without the possibility to return them if it doesn’t work.
Do you know anything around the $500-600 and Carmina quality range that works with wide feet? Am I doomed to buy bespoke?
Thanks, Nate
I’m afraid I don’t Nate, sorry.
Buying bespoke would be just as blind as MTO though? In fact more so, because you wouldn’t even try on a similar style.
I’d suggest trying MTO, particularly in something a little cheaper like Carmina, where there’s less financial risk. Just get one pair though first…
Thanks so much for the thoughtful reply. Depending on how you look at it, the good news is that oxfords are acceptable but not required on normal workdays. So it’s looking like loafers or chukka/Chelsea boots will do the heavy lifting depending on the season. Maybe derbies or monks too but I’m less of a fan of the styles. Anyway, my understanding is that these other styles are more forgiving on the fit than oxfords are. Is that the case?
Generally, oxfords sit in the middle. Loafers are harder to fit but derbies and easier. It’s basically a question of how much ability you have to alter the fit with the lacing.
Monks are similar to oxfords in that regard mostly, and boots can be harder or easier, depending on your ankle
Wow… since when carmina can do modified lasts? If eee is uncomfortable and they recommend mto, I would assume modified last?
Hi Simon,
What style would you suggest for a first high-quality shoe, at the Edward Green level? I own 2 pairs of TLB artistas (an oxford and a derby), but all my other shoes are much lower quality. I was looking at purchasing a pair of loafers from Edward Green—mostly because I love the color of the dark oak antique calf and it appears suiting for my wardrobe—but I’m wondering if it is a tad improvident to buy a loafer as my first pair of really nice shoes. My work environment is business casual, with suits on occasion (I’m a lawyer in the USA). And I’m finding I wear loafers 1-3 times a week. I’d appreciate your thoughts.
I think that sounds like a nice choice Charles. If you wear loafers that often, then they’ll certainly be out a couple of times a week, which is a good amount to rotate in a good shoe.
Were you thinking another style would be worn more often?
I wasn’t necessarily thinking I’d wear another style more often, but perhaps more universally…like a dark brown oxford that can be worn with flannels as well as a dressier suit. Although, it seems like one can do the same with loafers, so maybe it’s just preferential? If it is, I’d probably opt for loafers. Thanks for response!
I think it probably is Charles. It depends on your life, work etc as well, but I don’t think many people would see one as a lot more informal than another these days.
Dear Simon,
Thank you for your articles. I find them very enlightening. Cleverly is coming to Boston and I’m considering booking an appointment. I’ve never really know what a good fitting shoes are. Could you elaborate how a shoe should fit? I know there is a certain degree of personal preference. But the only thing I’ve heard is pretty much it should be snug and doesn’t hurt your feet. It would be great if you could shed some light. Thank you in advance.
Best
It’s a fairly big area to go into Tony, but the basics are:
– The ankle is held (so it doesn’t slip at all, up or forward)
– The toes and joints have plenty of room to move (even when walking, so pressing forward in the shoe)
– You have decent support elsewhere where needed, particularly in the arch
After that a lot is subjective, as you say. Some prefer a touch loose, others a touch close. But these are the main things to bear in mind
Got it. I live in Boston so my only access to the European bespoke makers is through the trunk shows in Boston and NYC. Would you that’d be enough to work with them long-term? Because to only (remotely) local I’ve heard of is Francis Waplinger. I’m not sure if he is of the same quality as the cleverleys and G&Gs.
Yes it should be Tony, given how long they’ve been travelling there and the established local customers
I deeply enjoy how well written this articles are. The grammar, the punctuation and spelling are spot on. This is rare in a “frivolous conversation” as fashion is usually taken as. But a true gentleman strives for perfection.
Don’t waste your Money!
There is no customer service whatsoever. I received a pair of shoes 2 size bigger try
contacting them and no response.
Hello simon what would you lnvest your more money for sartorial look
Coat or shoes
Shoes, probably, at first. But you only need one good coat, and more shoes than that. So maybe a coat after the first pair or two of good shoes?
I see may i know how many coats in your wardrobe? I think i have to buy many coats
A lot, but I’m not typical, this is my living.
I’d say most guys never need more than two or three
Maybe ulster,raglan,single would be nice?
Yeah, that’s a good mix
Do you suggest edward green top drawer or yohei fukuda bespoke?
Between those two, definitely Fukuda
I see what kind of shoes do you recommend for bespoke? Loafers or oxfords or split toes
Any is fine, but often a good idea not to start with loafers or boots as they can be hard to fit
Oh really? My favourite shoes are loafers do you think japanese bespoke shoemakers are top of this category right now?
Probably, yes
Always thank you for the answer simon
Hello,Simon
Please allow me to share my opinion here,
As someone who have a really difficult feet(flat feet,small heel).
I m struggling to find a dress shoes that fit me and i have not found any yet.
So here is my opinion,A bespoke shoes could be worth it for someone who are having the same situation as me when there is no RTW shoes that fit them.Perhaps it could becomes the first value thing.However,in some aspect i do agree with you that bespoke shoes cost a lot.
As i happen to live somewhere in Asia,Can you please recommend any Japanese bespoke(entry level price)(300,000 yen) that you believe it could be worth trying.
Thank you.
I think that makes sense Guy, yes, and it’s just a question of finding one that is affordable.
I’m afraid I don’t know any around that price though, that’s the issue.
I read the article and i also wonder its worth it ,but i want to try some of bespoke shoes can you suggest me fine bespoke shoe makers?
I also want to about what do you think about top drAwer of edward green
Hi Taewoo,
Have you looked at my reviews of the various bespoke shoemakers I have tried? They are listed here.
I have also covered Top Drawer, if you have a search.
I will try to read it more,after your journey of menswear what would you pay more? Suits(jacket) or shoes
Thank you simon
Suit and jacket probably
I am not sure I got your point. Where is the mistake you encountered while doing bespoke shoes? Did you make individual lasts? And still the shoes were not a nice fit the first time? Sounds like those lasts were not make correctly based on your measures. That does not mean that full proper bespoke that fits immediately the first time is not possible.
Yes, in every case individual lasts were made. And often the fit was not good the first time. That doesn’t mean it’s not possible, as you say, but given I’ve tried so many bespoke shoemakers, including most of the best known, I think it’s fair to say it’s a common problem.
Thank you so much for answering.
The reason why I ask is that I am actually considering ordering full bespoke shoes. The shoemaker that I work with argues that he has a unique approach to building lasts, based not only on direct measurements, but on doing “casting of the foot”. Apparently this is supposed to be better than regular taking of all the possible measurements. I presume your experience is based on the latter?
No, I’ve used all measurement techniques I’m afraid! Casts, tracing, angled measurements, rulers that take a profile of the foot, pressure pads…
Thank you so much for a response, I did not notice it 🙂
I will nudge my shoemaker then and tell him about this. He says that he does casting of the foot not in order to take measurements, but actually to use it as a model for direct last contruction. He says it’s different, because most shoemakers use casting in order to just take measurements, which apparently has its serious shortcomings. Whereas direct last building based on casting is apparently a better idea.
Hmm, I think that could definitely work Matt, but as I said, in my experience it’s about what works for the shoemaker. If it works for him, that’s great, but I wouldn’t downgrade methods others use, or think they would make a worse-fitting shoe because they use a different method
Makes sense! Thanks 🙂
Hello Simon, this weekend I was fortunate enough to pick up a great pair of Black Chukka Boots from Saint Lauren for a great price. Whilst they cannot be the same quality as a pair of bespoke shoes it is clear that they are indeed of a very high craftsmanship and one feature that jumped out to me was they are maybe the slippiest leather soles I have ever encountered. I have leather soled shoes from Crockett and Jones, Loakes and Gucci but these are really another level entirely.
With many of my leather soled shoes, the natural abrasion from wearing them outside offers a level of friction that can provide suitable grip as long as it is not terrible weather. However, I fear that with these I maybe need ‘to go a step further’ and consider buying some adhesive rubber sole patches.
I just wondered what your opinion was on this topic and if you have any reccomendations based on your experience with shoes like this. What would you typically do in such situations?
Have you tried wearing them outside yet Albert, to the point that they’ve started to get some texture on the sole? Often fashion shoes have more of a surface paint on the soles and it takes a little time to wear that down and get the texture you want.
Let me know if you’ve already tried that….
Thanks for the reply. Only light wear so far so ‘ll try to follow this strategy first and persevere to see how they feel once they’ve been further worn down. I’ll let you know.
Thank you, please do
Hi,
The best thing to do is to walk on slightly rough surfaces. Roads are better than pavements for this but obviously can’t be done on busy streets. Once the sole loses uniformity and picks up grit it will grip much better. Do try this on a dry day as water isn’t great for the longevity of leather soles, particularly on the first few outings.
Hope that helps,
Kris
Hi
Dear Mr Simon
I hope doing well
Thank for such great blogs
I keep reading your posts repeatly
I am from Asia. I have flat feet
Could you please share your experience
On bespoke shoemaker, who make the best fitting ?
Hello Ali,
In my personal experience, the best fit came from Yohei Fukuda in Japan. I would also caution, however, that overall my experience with bespoke shoes has been that they rarely deliver a really good fit, at least with the first shoe, and with most makers. Many of my ready-made shoes fit my feet (it’s always personal) better than most of the bespoke I have had made.
As I detail in this article, the benefit of bespoke is really in the long term, when you work with a maker over multiple pairs during your lifetime.
Hey simon having worn gyw shoes for many shoes i think i have come to the conclusion that most are not comfortable ovet extended period of wear and walking around. For that i find my blake stitched paraboot loafers with rubber soles the best in that regard. Im wondering what is your most comfortable gyw shoes and also while the paraboots are very comfortable, its not that elegant given the rubber soles. Curious what kind of footwear do you wear when on holiday/on a weekend out and about where you are dressed up but need to walk abit to sight see and shop
Have you seen my summer shoe list Shem? The Alden there would be what I would go with, though I’m also happy in those gym shoes, the Doeks
This is such a beautifully written article. Thank you Simon!!
Hi Simon, I’d be so grateful for your advice. I had my first fitting at one of the most renowned bespoke makers in London, and having read your article, my expectations for my first pair were not high. However, the shoes were basically unwearable (worse than any rtw) – they would nearly fall off upon walking and there were huge gaps around my flat feet from both sides. This particular maker doesn’t make fitting shoes, so I tried on the actual shoes, which had no soles, but the welt was sewn in the front, with a temporary heel nailed on. We didn’t get a chance to start discussing other details, as the shoes simply didn’t fit. The person who took my measurements was different from the lastmaker, and the last didn’t reflect my arches accurately. The lastmaker re-sketched/re-measured my feet and said that they will be re-making (or adjusting) the last and changing the shoes ‘as much as they can’.
My concern is, though: how much can they really alter the shoes at this point without compromising the look/quality/fit expected of bespoke shoes? And at what point can I ask for a refund or the shoes to be remade from scratch? They said that they will try their best (but did not sound optimistic) – if it doesn’t work out again, they said they would need to make the vamp higher and attach elastics inside the shoes to support my flat feet (but obviously I wouldn’t want my original choice of design to change).
Hey Alex,
Very sorry to hear that.
I guess this splits into two parts. The first is that if the shoes really don’t fit well, you should certainly be able to ask for your money back. And that should be without compromising the way they’re made (elastic inside) or the design (height of vamp). Those things should have been made clear earlier and you to have accepted them, I think, for you not to be able to get your money back.
However, the other side of this is that I haven’t seen the shoes themselves, or indeed your feet. So I’m only going off your description of how bad the fit was, and how extreme your foot shape is. Both those things make me hesitant to say anything conclusive, as I’m sure you understand.
I hope that makes sense as an initial reaction. Do let me know if you have any more questions now or later – always happy to help
Thanks very much, Simon – really appreciate your reply.
Would you say that after this first fitting there is technically not that much they can do to change the fit (as the fit was very bad to start with)?
The lastmaker, who didn’t measure my feet when I commissioned it, did ask why I chose loafers given the fact that I have flat feet (I did so because they assured me that loafers would be perfectly fine). I do have flat feet, but I’d say they are within the normal range – I fit well into GG and EG rtw loafers (not perfectly but without any discomfort or slippage, nowhere near how the shoes fit this time).
They said that they will try their best to alter the shoes as much as they can. I am wondering if it is worth it to wait and see the result, or would you say that it is unlikely that the shoes can be as good as they could have been had they achieved a reasonable fit to start with?
I don’t think it’s really possible to say Alex, having not seen the fit myself. But I would say that the fact they’re trying to fix it shouldn’t prevent you asking for your money back if it is that bad
I understand your point, thanks again Simon. Generally speaking, when would you say that bespoke shoes become ‘refundable’? For example, would it need to be much worse than RTW in terms of fit? Sometimes, I find it hard to discuss this issue with the makers as they always claim that they are the experts in judging whether or not the fit is acceptable.
Yes I know. It’s hard to say really – but I’d judge it not by whether they have done better than RTW (because RTW varies a lot, and so does the compatability with feet) but rather by whether they have delivered as a bespoke service on what you could reasonably have expected from them, and what they said they would deliver. Eg if they said loafers would be fine, they can’t then say you shouldn’t have had a loafer.
Hello Simon, hope you are well. Since our last discussion, I had my re-fitting – it improved, but remains far from ideal IMO (pic attached). I’d be grateful to hear your view.. They said that the gaping will disappear once they make a slight adjustment to the last and put the soles and complete the making. To be honest, I don’t think the gaping will disappear when the shoes are completed in two months. If the final shoes still have gaping, what do you think my options are? Many thanks in advance.
Hi Alex,
We’re talking about gaping on either side of the instep, correct? Why do you knot think it could go away withe the adjustment to the last?
Thanks Simon. Yes, that is correct. I am getting concerned because I expected the gaping/bulging to disappear after the last fitting. Despite their assurance that they know exactly what to do to get rid of the gaping, the gaping didn’t disappear. Nonetheless, they wished to go ahead and finish the shoes – I got the impression that they don’t really think the problem is serious. They said that it’ll disappear once the shoes are complete. Now, I am getting worried because I don’t think it’ll be a smooth process getting any refund for the shoes (assuming the gaping doesnt disappear).. since there doesnt seem to be an established standard agreed mutually by both parties here.. This is my first bespoke and I feel like I am struggling to know what my rights are and how to handle this situation if the gaping/bulging still exist in the finished shoes..
I should say as ever that it’s hard to give advice remotely Alex. I really couldn’t say whether they are going to be a good fit when finished with that much certainty, and your lack of experience of course is a big factor too. I guess one thing is it’s important to make clear that you are unsure about whether it’s worth continuing, so at least that sets expectations – rather than trying to ask for your money back at the end
Thanks Simon. I never knew that going through a bespoke process would be this challenging! I guess, the word ‘bespoke’ could be sometimes misleading, especially to inexperienced ones like myself. I am aware that you offer private consultations sometimes. .. is this something that you could help me with?
Sure Alex, I’d be happy to, though if it’s about the fit it would help a little in person – not sure where you’re based
Brilliant! I am based in central London, but I can also travel if you are outside London!
No worries Alex – drop me an email on [email protected] and we can arrange it
Could you enumerate some of the things to look for in high-quality dress shoe laces. It’s a subject rarely discussed and given much thought.
There are obviously cheap and poor quality laces, but the vast majority you get with decent shoes are fine. The issue is more with style I find – round v flat, waxed and not, thin and thick
Hi Simon, did the follow-up article ever make it onto the website?
Thanks,
H
No sorry, completely slipped my mind. Do you still think it would be interesting?
In a nutshell, yes I do.
I have a couple of horses in the race so some bias there! More seriously, it’s always useful, and a much better value proposition, to learn from your experience than to go through the whole shebang without any guidance.
I’d be particularly interested in what to look for in terms of fit. You’ve mentioned before that fit is a difficult thing for most to articulate, so any pointers would be really helpful. I guess there are inevitably some compromises in, or at least differences in opinion about, how a shoe fits across the different parts of a foot so it would be great to read your thoughts on this and how your perceptions have changed.
OK great, thanks H
Never seemed worth the money to me, especially these days when people wear trainers with suits (even in the White House!). Unless you’ve got really odd or mismatched feet, you can generally find well fitting RTW dress shoes from any of the quality brands. For my money I’d rather have another bespoke suit.
would you say that your best fitting bespoke oxfords are more comfortable than your calfskin edward green dover?
Yes. The unlined suede Dover would be very close though
that’s amazing, was that your first or second bespoke pair from the maker?
In that case I’m thinking of Yohei Fukua and it was my first pair, but most others haven’t been that good
thank you for sharing