Vittorio Salino tweed jacket: Review
I'm back! Hello everyone, I hope you had a nice week in the amiable arms of Manish, and you haven't all decided he is better in every respect than me. Although even if you have, fear not - he will be writing again very soon, including the second part of his chambray guide. Now, on with that PS staple, a bespoke review...
This is my finished jacket from Vittorio Salino, the Florentine tailor covered last month.
During the week I was in Florence we managed to do a quick measuring session and then two basted fittings (Vittorio already had the cloth). That meant he didn't have as much time as usual for the fitting process, but from the start I could tell this wouldn't be a problem.
The measuring was relatively simple, reminding me of the almost cursory way Antonio Liverano had of measuring - no coincidence of course, as Vittorio was head cutter there.
And the result was just as good when I had the first fitting. Perfect balance; no issues with my slightly lower right shoulder; no struggles with the drop over the tricep. Just nailed.
And so everything proved through to the finished jacket. The only question I have concerns how roomy the fit is, and whether I’d like that tweaked at some point.
As described in our interview, Vittorio likes a comfortable jacket - something that can be put on and forgotten about, whether you’re walking or sitting, talking or working.
It doesn’t necessarily look it from these images, but there is more drape in the chest and less suppression in the waist than normal. The result is I can easily wear a sweater like our two-ply cashmere crewneck underneath. (Though not something like a Rubato lambswool - we’re not talking as big as the Assisi DB.)
Vittorio’s cutting hides this well. The room in the chest isn’t obvious, and in the profile image below, you can see that there is still some shape to the back. I think the main reason to slim the jacket would be just to get sightly more shape in the front.
I’ve only worn it a few times, so I’m not entirely decided yet, but I’m not seeing Vittorio until the summer so there’s plenty of time to decide.
The jacket elsewhere is very well made, essentially the same as my Liverano and other Florentine makers like Vestrucci. It’s not the super precision of Milan, but it’s neat, strong and finer than something like Neapolitan.
That point about strength is a relevant one, because I really identify with the way Vittorio talked about his tailoring as a functional, everyday piece of clothing - and how George at Speciale did in the piece we did on them (George also trained in Florence).
If bespoke tailoring is to have a strong future outside of event wear - so as a regular, everyday part of the wardrobe - it needs this kind of unprecious, easygoing attitude. And I can see Vittorio’s comfortable fit being part of that.
Indeed, the soft way the drape is created here illustrates this. An English drape cut has lots of room in the chest but it’s supported by layers of felt, canvas and horsehair. The Florentine one is softer, and falls more naturally.
This could feel sloppy to some, but it definitely feels simpler and easier. There isn’t that stand-up military feeling you get with most British tailoring, which of course even the A&S drape cut was originally inspired by.
The open roll of the fronts is similar. The whole jacket feels like it has just been cut open, folded back and then buttoned, with the lapels rolling naturally as they fall. This isn’t the case at all of course - it’s carefully calculated and controlled from the neck - but that’s the feeling. It might be why I’ve never been a big fan of three-roll-two fronts on English jackets.
Moving on from the technical aspects, I should address the material’s differences from my grey herringbone, as a few readers have asked about how they compare.
They’re very similar of course, and most people would have no need of both. But if herringbone tweed is your thing, the two are a little different and have different uses. This Fox Tweed is as much brown as grey, at least in the lighter herring’s bones, and as a result is easier to wear with other neutral-coloured clothes, like blacks or greys.
An example is the charcoal flannels I'm wearing here, or black jeans. A grey herringbone can work too, but it needs colour elsewhere to stop it all being grayscale - a pink shirt or perhaps a brown belt/shoes.
For those using the ‘five jackets’ article as a way to build their tailored wardrobe, I’d think of this jacket as slightly more a brown option than a grey one.
The charcoal trousers are from Whitcomb & Shaftesbury, made in Fox Heritage Flannel (HF9). The belt is crocodile from Ludens with a vintage silver buckle.
I was playing about with work shirts under jackets for a more casual look, but keeping everything white to retain that tonal feel. I quite like the result, though the Rubato shirt’s collar has a habit of flipping outside of the jacket, and the sleeves could be 1cm longer.
It’s a bit of a trade off: as with a lot of casual shirts, you just can’t get these materials to make bespoke, so it has to be RTW. The thicker material looks great with a tweed jacket, to me, but you sacrifice little points of fit.
The shoes are Piccadilly loafers from Edward Green in Utah leather, the glasses are old ones from Eye-Van I got at Ludovic in Brussels, and mostly wear at the weekend. The watch is my JLC Reverso, the coat my old Rider's Raincoat in the original colour.
I’d highly recommend Vittorio based on this experience, for the end result but also the experience along the way - his style and his advice.
For more technical detail on Florentine cuts in general, see style breakdown pieces on Liverano here, and Vestrucci here.
You can read more about Vittorio in our interview on PS here. His prices in Florence start at:
- Jacket: €2200
- Suit: €3000
- Trousers: €800
- Coat: €4500
All include cloth and tax. Trunk show prices vary. Those trunk shows are held in Belgium, Zurich and Los Angeles. There are no plans to add others in the near future, due to capacity (Vittorio and Clément make everything themselves.)
Upcoming dates:
- 26th-28th April: Zurich
- 20th-25th May: Los Angeles
Not sure what I'm doing in the pic below, but it does show the shape of the jacket nicely!
Nice jacket Simon and interesting discussion about the trade offs between a slightly roomier jacket and a sharper silhouette. If it’s to be warm more casually, then I’d say keep it as is.
This fox tweed looks quite smooth and less tweedy than the sherry tweed, at least in the pictures.
Yes I think that’s fair – it’s denser, so kind of smoother and a little stiffer
My two cents on the matter is that a heavy-ish tweed jacket might work better — as long as no tie is worn — with a flannel shirt or mid-weight tattersall.
The herringbone tweed is so mild mannered that it needs help. A dark blue flannel or a bit of pattern “pop” with a tattersall would liven the outfit. The white shirt seems too dreary paired with the light tweed; a heavier flannel would be more “up to the task” of sitting beneath a tweed jacket.
Thanks Leif, nice suggestions. It would be a little less urban then, not quite the look I would like most of the time, but I can definitely see how the right pattern would work well.
That’s probably the heart of it; Town Mouse/ Country Mouse.
Like the cloth and the overall fit, but to me the lapels look very wide against your shoulders, and I’m sorry but your shirt collar does the look no favours.
No worries Harvey, neither are for everyone. Thanks
Jacket looks great. I definitely agree for tailoring to be everyday, or near-enough so, these days it needs that attitude.
Not so sure about the white shirt and undershirt – I’ve quite liked your other undershirt looks and perhaps it is the connotations but it feels very ‘American office worker’ to me, even though the jacket obviously doesn’t.
Yes I know what you mean. I think that would be more the case with something like a white oxford and chinos, but it’s definitely an association
Hope you had a wonderful break Simon. Manish did a great job and I was especially interested in the article about chambray shirts.
Your jacket is beautiful as is the cloth. Health to enjoy.
I have added a couple of photos on my belt with trouser alterations by Steed which I’m very well pleased. It’s in the “ Why I’m Wearing More Belts” article.
Thank you Lindsay, it was lovely. And I knew Manish would be wonderful. Different but just as good.
Thanks on the jacket and on the belts images
Simon,
I also noted the beautiful charcoal flannel trousers by W&S. Are they made in their classic method in India?
Can you still recommend the W&S Classic option for tailoring made in India. I’m considering a jacket and possibly a trousers commission with them.
Thanks again
Lindsay
Yes they are and yes I would. Prices have gone up so it’s not quite the value it was, but still very good
Sorry Simon,
if I may ,who would you now recommend for value and quality be it in London or elsewhere?
For that kind of style it would probably still be Whitcomb. WW Chan are great value too
Many thanks, that’s encouraging.
Lindsay
Really nice, Simon. Have been looking forward to this review since the initial Vittorio Salino post – my most recent commission was a single breasted in this same Fox Tweed so was interest to see how yours came out. Out of interest, are the buttons black?
Thanks NL. No very dark brown
Hello Simon and hope you had a great holiday! The jacket looks nice but given your athletic build I think a less roomy fit would have looked better.
Thanks Alex, good to have the opinion
Hi Simon, perhaps a slightly unfair question, but what other tailors/MTM produce a jacket that would fit your description of Vittorio’s jacket as “comfortable”. For example, would Anglo-Italian fall into this description?
I’d say the closest would be ones like Panico and Assisi of ones I’ve tried.
It’s interesting on Anglo, mine was fairly roomy but I know others have had them fairly close fitting. I’m sure it’s something you could tweak to your preferences though
Agree with several others that the front-on view looks not that flattering, but it looks easily fixable with just a bit of extra suppression in the waist. I wonder if the length is slightly shorter than your usual jackets, making this one appear even more boxy by comparison?
Rest of it looks great! Even the exposed white t-shirt (which is not personally my style).
Thanks. I think the length is the same but I’ll check
The length on the back seam is 31 inches, which is fairly standard for a non-English jacket on me. Solito is shorter, most are 31 point something
Dear Mr. Crompton, as you say the jacket may need a little optimisation. With regard to roominess, I wonder whether a little sewing-in at the waist would look better. Also given the fact that your body shape supports a V-shape rather than a bit ‘baggy’ silouette (sorry for this expression). I would like to add that the ‘gorge point’ is a bit too high or in other words too close to the shoulder. But of course this is subjective matter. Regards
Thanks for this review. Interesting read. True, the jacket looks perhaps a little barrel-shaped in these pictures. Would you wear it with a tie?
The point Vittorio makes about the future of bespoke – as a regular part of our wardrobe – is so true. I find that Davide Taub also achieves this with his more British tailoring (e.g. his driving jacket for Bentley, his cycling jacket, his DB blazer that he presented at Pitti and shown here).
The glasses give your face a harmonious & friendly expression, they look good on you.
Thanks Burt. I don’t where them much so nice to hear.
I would wear with a tie yes, something knitted probably
I like this jacket a lot and prefer the cut to your ‘Anthology’ and would certainly keep all of the drape.
One thing I am considering on my next casual commission is adopting one vent. I think it would add to the loucheness of the thing.
My style prediction is by next year we will all belted and trousered in 17” plain bottoms and jackets will be one veering towards no vents.
I’d be interested in your view
I can see the style shift and a single vent would go along with that. I feel like it would always look a little too messy to me though, exposing the behind as soon as you use your trouser pockets
Interested to see the charcoal cloth you have linked is a herringbone also…I presume the pattern isn’t too striking (it is certainly hard to tell that it is a herringbone from the pictures) as I imagine a herringbone jacket on herringbone trousers would usually be too much?
Also, the heritage flannel is fairly heavy, is there a big difference in how heavy the trousers feel made in this cloth versus a cloth from Fox’s Classic Flannel bunch?
Yes it’s basically invisible, you’d never notice it at all.
The Heritage does feel heavier and rougher, yes
A big fan of the original beige rider coat. Any chance of that being offered in the future?
We are looking at it for this autumn, yes
HI Simon,
This chimes in with your “This Feels Like Me ” piece. The work shirt, like the polo shirt, keeping it casual and more intriguing.
Thanks Daniel, and good point
Would love to see you try Kotaro-San of Corcos from Florence!
Thanks GG. I don’t have any current plans to, and generally prefer a little looser cut, but still would be nice to cover Kotaro-san in more detail some day
I like the cloth but not the roomy fit. For me it looks like you have bought a RTW jacket made for a much more voluminous person.
Trust me, RTW jackets don’t look anywhere this good on me! (Should illustrate that some time actually) But yes, I know what you mean Markus
I’m very interested in this article! You always write about how difficult it is to fit you, it would be great to have some pictures with off the rack jackets to see how they look.
About the jacket, in general I don’t like how Florentine tailoring looks, but in particular with this jacket, it looks boxy from the front.
Thanks Dario, noted
Hi Simon,
Welcome back. I think this is very cool jacket. I really do like this type of jacket with a navy or black roll neck, but understand that may be a bit ‘beat generation’ for some.
I prefer the slightly fuller fit. I think the slightly fuller look in most clothing is becoming more popular. Do agree with that observation?
I noticed when I met you in the pop up a few weeks back that you didn’t look noticeably bigger however I have seen you selling a some smaller sizes on Marktt recently. Also we discussed sizing up the raglan overcoat which I think is consistent with the slightly larger cut/size trend. I use the word trend in it’s technical not fashion context.
All the best.
Hey. Yes that’s certainly been a trend for a few years. I’ve grown in size slightly, but combined with wanting things a bit fuller has been why I’ve passed on some things that were already slim to start with (even after alterations)
This would look nice with a black roll neck, though it would be more of a look as you say. Navy doesn’t work quite so well with it
I’ve been looking forward to this review, but I must admit to being disappointed by the finished jacket. The fit may be roomy, but it looks pretty shapeless to me – quite boxy and rather “straight up and down” with not enough shaping even in the back. It makes you look bulky, but the lapels are too wide for my taste and feel disproportionate. To be honest it “feels” a bit like my tweed jacket felt after I lost a chunk of weight quite rapidly – too loose and not flattering, requiring a significant alteration to regain the fit.
I’d agree with a previous commenter, also, that the shirt collar is doing the jacket no favours, I can’t help but feel that something with a little more structure is needed to stand up to the width of those lapels.
Having said which, I love the cloth!
Agree completely.
Good to have a review .. it seems like is been a while .
The silhouette appears stronger in the first , baste fitting, picture. the finished jacket doesn’t appear to have any suppression in the waist.
Also, I’m always a little surprised, that given your sloping shoulders you go for jackets with a soft shoulder . I would have thought more structure on the shoulder would suit you better ?
Hey Robin,
Yes the front finished photo is probably a little deceptive – there is more shape there than it seems. But less so than at the first fitting. Shows it can fit though.
Sloping shoulders is something we talk about a lot.
In brief, a more structured shoulder would make me look squarer but not necessarily broader, which is not a look I like that much.
That is subjective, but more objective is that a squarer shoulder would also look smarter, which is not what I want from a tweed jacket like this. It would be a very different partner with something like jeans, for example.
I like it and have been gravitating towards looser fits in my jackets as I’ve played around with different style… especially for odd jackets. I really like the option to layer a thin sweater or vest under odd jackets and that requires a looser fit to be comfortable. My limited experience is that tailors in Naples tend to prefer a tighter fit compared to Florentine tailors, would you say that just accurate or just in my imagination? I think this jacket would also go great with brown trousers.
That is generally accurate, yes. Tailors like Panico, Zizolfi, Ciardi are looser, but most are pretty tight.
Good point on brown trousers, that would be nice with something breaking it up (belt, patterned shirt)
Hope you enjoyed the Easter holidays with your family!
Regarding the cloth, by it sitting between grey and brown does that make it more versatile than either? Or more for when you already have a brown jacket and a grey jacket and are looking for something different?
Based only on the photos, I too would say that some waist suppression would be more flattering.
By the way, how are you finding your glasses from Maison Bonnet? I am sorely tempted for this to be the year when I finally commission some frames from them. I prefer you in them to the metal frames you are wearing here.
Many thanks.
Thank you John.
I wouldn’t say it was more versatile than either, no. Grey would probably still be the most versatile for me.
My Bonnet frames are great. The best glasses I’ve ever tried, just unfortunately by far the most expensive
It also looks to my eye a bit shorter than some of your jackets, which adds to its success as a casual piece. What is its length?
See comment above on that Eric. I’ll check later
Comment above replied to on the length Eric – it’s 31 inches
Personally, I think it has nothing on your anthology jacket! Cloth looks lovely though.
Something I find interesting, is that you have used Rubato sweaters before as a barometer of what you’d never wear beneath a jacket. Yet I find my Rubato sweaters are some of my most worn sweaters beneath my jackets. I don’t feel like my jackets are enormous by any means. They are MTM tailored jackets (one from the anthology and the other from a lesser known brand) and fit in a roomy, louche but indisputably tailored way with a tshirt, and quite comfortably with a sweater. For how I mainly wear tailoring, I think I’d find a closer fit unnecessary. (Though if I were getting a navy worsted suit, I’d definitely go for a closer fit for sure.) Stylistically, I prefer wearing my jackets with interesting textured knits like a shetland or a rubato sweater, and feel I am still benefiting from the tailoring, but would feel like I was losing something to have them close enough to only fit thin merino jumpers beneath them. I find those kind of jumpers a little superfluous personally.
Lovely jacket, Simon. How much did the whole process take, from measuring to the finished garment?
You mean how long? Three months, but that’s not normal – see answer below
Following up on my last question, do you think it would be possible for a bespoke tailor to set up two fittings for a first time client in a two-weeks time frame? I will be traveling to Italy next year for my honeymoon and I would like to get a bespoke suit, if possible. Maybe a MTM would be more feasible.
MTM would usually be harder, as it requires something going back and forth to a factory.
For bespoke, a tailor normally can do it but it means putting your work ahead of all other customers, and so delaying them. They generally don’t do it as a result. It’s worth asking a tailor just in case they can take it on, but I would expect a negative answer. You would also need to have the cloth already, or it be locally available, so that doesn’t take a few days to order and receive.
Welcome back! I agree with previous comments on the jacket, it does seem to need a little bit of adjustment to really shine. I DO quite like the bold lapels, though!
I have two completely unrelated questions:
1. I did this before through Lavabre Cadet and through Chester Jefferies, but I don’t think either now offers it unfortunately.
2. We covered this in this piece.
Yes, that piece is what motivated me to get the cashmere shirt cardigan. It’s one of the best looks you’ve worn, in my book (and it pushed me to try the really heavy fox fabrics, which are now a staple for me during the colder months).
But I feel the shirt cardigan is quite different from the silk-cashmere garments because the shirt cardigan works great with an undershirt to help keep it clean and to work as an extra layer. A cream coloured silk-cashmere resort shirt would be worn quite differently. It seems odd to wear with an undershirt (it would be warmer AND look less casual), and I imagine a undershirt would be much more visible in the breezier silk-cashmere material?
Ah I see, sorry. Yes this does sit a bit more in-between and I wouldn’t be quite sure how to wear it – I’d likely want to not have an undershirt, but wouldn’t necessarily want cream then
I like it! It looks comfortable and well made. I think shaping it more would go against the whole idea of the jacket.
The T shirt under the dress shirt though… it’s not something I associate with stylish people. My cousin who begrudgingly wears suits at his corporate job also does this 😉
Ah yes, there are associations like this that are like to tailends of something (studenty Ivy) that was and can still can be quite stylish. But it’s often been quite downtrodden in the meantime
I quite like this style for the Ivy associations – a throwback to a time when American style was associated with sporty, casual elegance, rather than hustle culture and tech-bros. But it is losing that association to anyone outside #menswear. I guess it’s easier with a coarser oxford-cloth shirt (or a workwear shirt like this one) – wearing a visible undershirt with a dress shirt gives strong fin-bro vibes (just add a slim suit with sneakers and a solid gold submariner).
It’s quite a shame that some of these old associations are being overtaken with more modern ones: undershirts under shirts, not to mention sweaters over the shoulders (which I also strongly associate with the dressy casual, sporty Ivy style), which now brings the association of “rich asshole”. Still, if I’m going to be an asshole, that’s the type I’d like to be, so I’ll continue to wear my knitwear over my shoulders for now.
I wonder if this would benefit from a video rather than the photos.
As others have said, it looks a little shapeless compared to some other offerings, but I suspect it’s both very comfortable to wear and benefits from being viewed in motion. Conversely, some more fitted jackets can be the opposite, great in photos but a little stiffer and more restrictive in real life, verging into “jacket wearing the person” territory.
True. Something to look into, thanks Ray
The jacket fits beautifully!
Lovely jacket. Although the white t shirt and glasses do bring Eric Dahmer to mind!
Hi Simon, is the shoulder here a bit less extended compared with Liverano (or, say, former Liverano head cutter Qemal Selimi)?
No I think it’s pretty similar to my Liverano
Is the jacket roomy enough to be able to wear button closed while sitting down?
Pretty much, unless you were really slouching. It’s not something I’d normally do though
The first photo head on (with the painted white brick wall behind) as well as the next one showing the rear view while walking on a wet street, would immediately lead me to think “Wow, that guy needs to read Permanent Style for some guidance on how to choose the right sized jacket”.
This a rare “miss for me.
Is the gorge quite high? How do you like it? Apart from other style points, how does it compare with others such as Orazio Luciano/other Neapolitans, Liverano, and maybe A&S?
It’s not that high, no, I think the photography is a little misleading there. I like it.
I just measured it and the distance from lapel point to shoulder seam is 4.5 inches, which is lower than everyone else you’ve mentioned.
You can see all those in the Guide of course, and the A&S really looks high now – 3 inches. Interestingly it was lower on my more recent A&S
Nice but needs more waist suppression. Btw, are your eyeglasses the ones that were formerly sunglasses? I think you wrote about them in the past. Or could you give us info on the eyeglasses? Do like them.
Thanks Dan. They weren’t formally sunglasses, no. I turned a pair of opticals into sunglasses, from Meyrowitz – maybe you’re thinking of those?
These are Eye-Van. I’m afraid I don’t know the model name – I got them from Ludovic Lunetier in Brussels years ago.
They do suit my face shape well though. We should do a piece sometime explaining what suits people in that way.
This jacket reminds me of what Ms Caraceni said in the interview you did with her: jackets should correct for very sloping shoulders. I don’t think this cut suits you as much as more structured ones. For one thing, it makes your hips look almost as wide as your shoulders. Sorry.
No problem at all. The nice thing about talking to Nicoletta was that, while she always had very definite views, she also saw the style of others and understood when people had different opinions – not something people on forums usually have!
The issue here is not really structured shoulders, as that would create a very different look, one nowhere near as casual. It’s elsewhere you would change it to make it more physically flattering
Welcome back Simon. This is unrelated to the Salino jacket, but did you post somewhere that you were putting out a suede overshirt or jacket soon? I searched but can’t seem to find it. Thanks.
Hey Joon,
Yes, and we had the sample in the pop-up shop. Production was delayed a bit as we waited for the suede, but it should be available by the end of the month.
okay great looking forward to learning more about it. looking for a suede piece right now but they are pricey so need to find the right one!
I really like the shirt! Do you know if Rubato are bringing it back? It’s not easy to find a work shirt that’s a true white rather than off-white.
True. I don’t know I’m afraid
Very nice jacket! Is it considered three-roll-two? On most pictures, it looks like a regular thee-button jacket with the first button undone.
No it is a three-roll-two, it will roll open more naturally over time as it’s worn
Hi Simon,
I personally like the roomy fit of the jacket. Seeing the shape of it from the side makes ir obvious that it is a well-fitting, tailor made garment. It goes well with the Ivy professor-look.
In terms of styling, you look great as always, but I would probably have worn a thinner t-shirt with a regular crew neck and a thick, white OCBD.
The t-shirt, beautiful as it is, looks more than something to be worn on its own.
The details of the work shirt are not really visible anyway and an open button-down collar, given a decent stand, might be easier for creating a nice deep V-shape. Or you could just iron the shirt collar to sit with a tighter angle to avoid the rolling. But you have probably considered these things already and wanted to experiment.
I have and you’re right, those things would be more harmonious, this is more about playing with that style.
Hi Simon.
i wonder how do you feel wearing herringbone jacket with a trouser that is also herringbone? Aren’t the fabrics similar in design albeit different in texture / colour etc?
Thanks in advance for your response.
AKG
Hey AKG,
This was covered in the comments above (though I forgive you for not reading them all!)
The material is in theory herringbone, but the nap on it means that is basically invisible. It just looks like a plain cloth.
You’re right that I wouldn’t normally wear herringbones together (or indeed trousers with visible pattern)
Thank you and apologies.
Best
AKG
Hi Simon,
Hope you had a good break.
I have been recommended to a tailor in Islington, Charlie Allen , who I believe has a similar price point to W & S.
Do you know/have any experience of him?
Regards
Stephen Dolman
I know who he is, but I’m afraid I don’t have any experience with the work, sorry
Simon,
I seem to recall an article in which you wore a twill button down shirt. I have always associated a twill with being more ‘work’ appropriate, and a button down for casual fabrics (oxfords, chambray etc).
Did I misremember this? If not, would be interested to hear if you commissioned it to be worn with a tie for example.
Thanks. Oh…and welcome back!
PM
I don’t think I have a twill button-down, but I might be misremembering.
I think you’re on the right lines with a button-down being more casual, but bear in mind that the weave, like the twill, is only one thing that makes a material more casual or smart. Some oxfords can be pretty fine materials, and in white are quite smart. Whereas a twill in a brown brushed cotton, for example, would be fairly casual.
Hello Simon, I see several mentions regarding the fit of the jacket.
from the photos, it appears that the right shoulder is higher than your left shoulder as opposed to what was mentioned in the article.
That possibly contributed to the visibly higher gorge on the right & the shorter right sleeve.
From the back it also almost looks as if the back panels are curved, would you say that was caused by the higher right shoulder?
Hey Nick,
I wouldn’t say the right shoulder is.higher, no. In general I think it’s hard to do this kind of detailed.analysis from photos
Hi Simon,
i would like to better understand.
Do less suppression in the waist and boxy resemble?
I have a bespoke suit that the tailor made with less suppression in the waist, but it makes me look like I have a tummy when I wear it. My question is, if I ask him to correct it, will it go against his house style?
Waist and suppression and boxy are not necessarily the same, no, but they are related.
Boxy tends to mean both lack of suppression and square shoulders – together creating the box shape.
Adding waist suppression is unlikely to be against someone’s house style, I wouldn’t worry about that.
Thank you for your valuable answer
the outfit looks very good and is typically the Permanent style way that I recognise. The look has your stamp on it and I could certainly emulate that look .
one thing that struck me was the collar. It looks as thought your trapezius muscles have recently bulked up a little. is that a characteristic of this particular cut? The lapels are lovely and I don’t get any sense of overmuch roominess. To me the length is slightly shorter but I get that this is Italian way.
the herringbone seems perfect.
Thanks. No change to my trapezius I don’t think, no
Then it must be a heavier thicker cloth. Great look that I can take lot from
Yes it is, and nice, very pleased
Of all your jackets this one seems to me the most Ivy-like and almost an invitation to go full Ivy and wear it with chinos, don´t you think?
Interesting, I hadn’t thought of that. I will certainly try it
I thought the same about the whole outfit. Tweed jacket, flat front flannels with a turn-up and loafers is already quite an Ivy combination. Add to that that the jacket has a few Ivy features (no front dart, soft shoulders, 3/2 buttoning), even if unintended and in a more tailored way.
The dark flannels dress is up nicely but I think chinos and jeans would work well too.
Very nice. I particularly like the higher button placement and the lapel roll. I especially like this for heavier tweed jackets as one can button the top button in colder weather without having to pop the lapels as with a traditional roll over lapel. Never quite got the appeal of the 3 roll 2.
I’m afraid this won’t really work that well if you button the top button, it’s made as a 3-roll-2. Nice if you do put the collar up though
The back looks really good having looked more closely. And also the top shoulder seam goes towards the back rather than straight sideways, something which I always liked more. You get that with A and S and is an older look. I always find it feels somehow better.
True, I know what you mean. In theory it gives more movement to the shoulder, freeing it more from the seam
I like this jacket Simon, but prefer the closer fit through the waist on some of your others.
Personal preference of course, and it’s still a beautiful jacket.
It’s prompted a question on my end…
You’ve had close fitting jackets through the chest from tailors like Cifonelli:
I personally feel a bit uncomfortable with a close fit through the chest…
How do you know when a jacket is just close-fitted (ie. No drape), versus too tight?
Good question, but it’s a hard one as it’s partly personal. I’d say you don’t want it to be obviously pulling anywhere – no creases from tension – at the least. Then it shouldn’t restrict you too much when you move, but it is quite personal after that
almost look ivy sack jacket
That’s a smart looking jacket, Simon. The cloth is lovely and, with the three-roll-two and roomier cut, it reminds me of the American “sack” jackets from the Brooks Brothers of old. I agree with your sentiment that a jacket in this style would be a versatile piece for a modern wardrobe. Cheers.
Very nice jacket Simon. I think the fit very good, however – to my eye, the placement of the patch pockets seems to make the lower part of the jacket (and by extension, you) look larger than what is actually the case.
Maybe this comes from RTW, where larger sizes naturally have more fabric, so the pocket placement is moved towards the side of the hips.
If the pockets were to be placed further forward, about an inch or so, I guess it would alter the look quite dramatically.
This also reminds me of jeans, where smaller waist sizes have a shorter distance between the front pockets, and the larger the size, the greater the distance becomes.
Interesting, thanks HC.
I think the balance within the side panel of the pocket might be thrown off if that were changed too much, but perhaps a touch
Must admit that I don
t find this cut very attractive. The "weakest" of the Florentine cuts Ive seen. The high gorge and relatively high buttoning point – combined with the “flat” front makes the jacket look very long and “unshapely”. Somewhat like an american “sack” jacket.Hello Simon,
I liked the jacket, but I have an inquiry regarding its silhouette. Having not seen the jacket in person and only in pictures, I find that the silhouette does not look right.
Perhaps the pronounced sloping shoulders, of which I am sadly a victim as well, together with the sack-like shape, with the minimal waist suppression, combine for a rather unflattering look. Was the decision about the waist deliberate?
Best regards,
Martin
Hey Martin,
It was something Vittorio leans towards, but this was a first jacket and we never did a proper second fitting in a finished jacket, so I think we will slim it through the waist, as I mentioned in the article
The roomier fit looks good. In fact, I may push back a little bit the next time a tailor binds me up in the name of style. I do have one general question: do trunk shows tend to cost more for bespoke items than they would in Italy?
Usually, yes. Sometimes tailors don’t do it and charge international customers the same in Italy, just to keep things more consistent, but the costs of making through trunk shows is hugely more and most need to charge more as a result
Really interesting, thanks Simon. I haven’t seen if Vittorio has specified what his trunks show prices would be, but what would you reckon is the typical % range for the extra cost when tailors travel internationally (say outside of Europe)?
It’s really hard to say Fred, it varies a fair bit. Sorry
Simon, I like this, but I feel it would look better if it fitted a little tighter. Maybe you cld put on half a stone? 😉
Funnily enough, I like tighter jackets in photos- but the looser ones feel a better…
One question- do you find a difference in the Italian use of canvas? I have 4 jackets made in Sicily- one seems to have full canvas, like my English ones, the others seem to have either lighter canvas or none… Have you come across this?
The problem is that they don’t hang well.
I’d rather work with a tailor to improve than just get another tailor. Frankly, most of his jacket making is exemplary. I don’t think he understands when I tell him- he says it is just due to the cloth… As you will know, one can often spend a little while helping someone- and this is much better for all concerned than just never going to him again…
Ha! OK that sounds like a nice excuse.
On canvas, I’d be surprised if anyone is using no canvas, and they will always be full, all the way down the body. But they can vary significantly in weight. I know some of the Sicilian tailors have more of an English influence so maybe that’s it, while others do less.
Yes it’s hard, if he’s really not understanding what you’re saying or communicating well, I’d try someone else
He actually makes a very good shape of jacket. I think I will get another tailor to do a post mortem. It wld be a shame to lose the first tailor for the sake of me buying some more appropriate canvas…
You know, Simon, there are so many people in life that fail bc someone won’t take them aside for half an hour and explain things…
A friend of mine’s father was a famous opera singer. he cldn’t watch ‘Britain’s Got Talent’.
‘Why’, I asked, ‘bc they have no talent?’
’No,’ my friend said, ‘because they have lots of talent. And my father knows that if they had his opportunities…’
He also puts Milanese button holes in Sicilian jackets- which to him look refined, but to someone like us probably is a touch absurd. Although I like very much his ‘Barca pocket’…
Thanks Jon, and yes I can see that on that kind of honest discussion
Hello Simon, on the point on strength, I’ve been holding back on wearing bespoke jackets quite often worrying they get damaged. In your experience, how tough are jackets such as this tweed jacket really? Can they handle rain or being folded up in a bag for a short trip? Have you ever had one wear out, and if so, where did it give way?
I haven’t, and they absolutely can. Wear and wear them! Don’t do anything like actually screw them up into a ball, but don’t worry about folding, getting wet, wearing more and more. They look better when they’re worn in, and most importantly, being bespoke they can be more effectively looked after and repaired
Late to the party commenting on this but I saw your IG story of you walking down Jermyn St in this jacket and it looks superb, comfortable, sharp and relaxed in equal measure. The static shots really don’t do this jacket justice. It seems to me that the classic English tailoring photos really well but these softer more louche Italian pieces need movement to fully appreciate the garment.
I think that’s a very good point Jon, yes.
I saw Clement this week as well, and we are slimming it slightly through the body. They didn’t really get a chance for a proper second fitting and I think we might have ended up doing it then anyway
I personally think Assisi achieved a the roomy fit better. Might be because of a heavier cloth or because of the fact that it was a DB. I think this jacket gives far too little shape through the back, otherwise a beautiful cut. Another point to add is that i think the pressing of this 3 roll 2 i a tad high, which doesnt particularily suit a less structured jacket.
Thanks. The roll opens up over time (I’ve seen Vittorio’s)