This coat from Liverano & Liverano in Florence has had a bit of an after life, being imitated in this tweed a fair bit, as well as spurring some to have the same coat from Liverano (despite the high cost).
It remains one of my absolute favourite pieces of bespoke. It has a shape and a style I’ve never really seen ready-made, and the PS Harris Tweed material works surprisingly well despite its weight.
As I write this piece, in fact, I’ve just come from a fitting with Nunzio Pirozzi, the respected Neapolitan tailor, about the coat. I was wearing it to the appointment, he admired the way the back was made, and we got into a conversation about its heritage. “You’re never too old to learn something new,” he said (I was told) in Italian.
Goes to show how different these various styles are, and how useful it is to talk about them all in this Style Breakdown series.
House: Liverano & Liverano
Address: Via Dei Fossi 43R, Florence
Site: liverano.com
Cutter: Antonio Liverano
Price of the coat (at time of writing): €14750 (incl VAT)
Starting price of a two-piece suit (at time of writing): €9775 (incl VAT)
Let’s look at the back of this coat first. As we mentioned in the first article in this series, on my Ciardi ulster, styles of coat vary quite a bit between tailors, and not always in the way you’d expect.
Despite Naples’ reputation for soft and easy tailoring, the Ciardi was quite detailed and tailored in the back. This Liverano coat, from the Florentine tradition, is the opposite: it’s simply a big piece of cloth, folded into one long pleat down the length of the back, and stitched down underneath the belt.
It’s how a lot of military great coats used to be made. All that material was held in place just by the belt, and you could undo the belt to let it all fan out, creating a big blanket a soldier could sleep under or otherwise wrap themselves up in.
With modern versions just using the belt would probably be too messy, but even with a hidden stitch under the belt, there is a freedom and flow to this Liverano coat. It’s messier than the Ciardi, as the photography shows, but it’s also easier to wear over bulky clothing and there is a particular, insouciant joy in wearing it.
The style might be a reason (alongside the tweed material) that I find this coat works well with jeans, where a lot of tailored overcoats don’t.
It’s also in keeping with the Florentine attitude to tailoring, which is often one of rustic elegance: clothes that are very well made, with lots of hand work, but in ways that make them stronger rather than more decorative. Ones that can be worn on the farm as well as the city, but in their way are just as well-made as anything from Milan.
The way the shoulder is made also expresses the same philosophy. Although it doesn’t have the ‘spalla camicia’ of Ciardi, there is actually less wadding than the Neapolitan coat, and the material drops very naturally from the shoulder. It’s a simple, easy style.
I should say, by the way, that one of the disadvantages of such a light material (15/16oz) is that it creases more, particularly in folds along the weave lines. Although the photograph above exaggerates this slightly, that’s what you can see in those lines down the sleeve.
I should also remind readers that with all the photos, I deliberately don’t press anything in advance but shoot it naturally, after many weeks of wear. I wore this to the shoot, on the London Underground, and this is how it looked afterwards.
In many other ways the Liverano style is similar to Ciardi. The shoulder width is similar, as is the buttoning point, as is the back length. The biggest other difference is probably the angle of the gorge, as we alluded to last time.
The gorge is where the collar and lapel meet. An ulster coat is defined by the roughly horizontal line of the top of the lapel, unlike the upwards point of a peak. But, some ulsters point subtly down, others are flat, others a little up. It varies but it is quite a visual cue and helps define the overall style.
While the angle of the lapel is similar on both coats, the Ciardi’s collar points slightly downwards, while the Liverano runs slightly upwards. As a result, the Liverano has a larger gap between the two.
The Liverano collar is also made of two pieces, with a stand in the back, unlike the Ciardi, which means it stands up a little more easily. I like wearing it in this manner particularly, and have shown some shots in that style.
A last detail I like is the turnback cuff. I’d never noticed the difference, to be honest, until the tailor I was working with on this series highlighted it.
The Liverano cuff has its seam on the outside of the arm, rather than the inside. This means you can see it, it’s not hidden, which some tailors might dislike as it’s not as neat. But it also feels more natural, as there is a seam anyway on the outside of the sleeve. It looks like you might actually have folded the sleeve back.
A useful way to think of these different approaches is perhaps as different tailoring languages. No language is right or wrong, but they express things in different ways. And just as importantly, each is consistent, coherent.
This is where tailors can get into trouble when try to mix styles, or change their style, I think. It’s a little like someone with a clipped British accent suddenly using Californian slang: it jars, it sounds odd. All languages evolve of course, but they tend to do so naturally and over some length of time. The best tailoring traditions have done the same thing.
For more details on this coat, see the original review here. You can also see all details on Liverano on their brand page.
Style breakdown:
- Shoulder width: 6¾ inches
- Shoulder padding: Light
- Sleevehead: Natural
- Lapel width: 6 inches (DB ulster, so flat)
- Gorge line: Horizontal
- Collar width (at gorge): 3 inches
- Gorge height: 3½ inches
- Outbreast pocket height: 12 inches
- Buttoning point: 19½ inches
- Wrap: 4½ inches
- Back length: 47 inches
Other clothes shown:
- Bespoke cashmere jacket by Eduardo de Simone
- Blue PS Oxford shirt by Luca Avitabile
- Olive PS Arran scarf
- Unlined Dover shoes from Edward Green in mink suede
- Vintage seventies Levi’s
- Vintage Ralph Lauren cap
Coat shown below with reader Ben, the subject of our recent profile article here
It’s my favourite item of yours Simon. By far the best long coat I’ve seen to go with Jeans. If it were featured in a hip new detective show on the telly, the internet would crash with all the searches for it.
I’d like to second Matt’s sentiment; if I ever need another long coat, these are the pictures I’m taking to my tailor!
Simon, you noted this was one of your favourite bespoke pieces. Do you wear it more than your other coats? And is that because of the high/low versatility, or just because you like it so much?
I probably do wear it most, though not by a long way. My Donegals and other PS collabs, plus my Ciardi ulster, get worn a lot as well.
It’t partly how much I like it, partly the fact it has that versatility of going with more casual things. Thought it’s not so great with smarter tailoring in this material
Very nice coat Simon, but wow,the cost….. Very very expensive indeed.
Yes, absolutely. Unfortunately Liverano was always expensive (outside Florence) and it’s only gone up proportionately over the years as others have
Dear Simon, I normally don’t comment on prices as I understand the value of artisans being a client of an expensive tailor myself, but these prices seem egregious. Do you know if Liverano charges different prices to Italian clients? Being part Italian myself, it is hard for me to believe that any local would pay more than 10k EUR for a suit. There are only a few tailors that charge more than EUR 5k for a suit in Italy (to my knowledge only Liverano, A. Caraceni, F. Caraceni and Rubinacci if you purchase in Italy). These prices are nearly double of what other already expensive tailors charge.
It seems to me the only explanation could be taking advantage of foreign clients who are willing to pay totally different prices than what any local would pay. I would think eventually clients will figure this out and go elsewhere. As a business model, I am not sure how long that could last.
Hey Andrew,
Yes prices in Italy were always lower, but a suit in New York was 7k about 10 years ago, so it’s gone out proportionately with most other bespoke prices out there. There was always a decent customer base for Liverano in New York and Japan as well
Seems to me a bit of the LVMH business model, where the buy a company and then dramatically increase the prices to the point they are completely dislocated from the quality or value of the product simply because they can (e.g., Loro Piana, Rimowa). Certainly there are customers who will continue to pay, but it isn’t a business practice I particularly admire.
Regarding the coat itself, I have never seen yours but I tried a friend’s once and I didn’t fall in love with it. After trying it on, I really struggled to understand the fame that the Liverano ulster has developed apart from benefitting from very savvy marketing from the Armoury. The coat has very little shape since it has such soft padding in the shoulders, and I personally don’t love Liverano’s rather straight lapels. The finishing is quite good and some may value the Liverano name, but in my opinion its not worth 15k.
(Anticipating responses to this comment, I understand that value is a very subjective concept which is why I wrote in my opinion.)
I wouldn’t necessarily say that, Andrew. I think see my comment above about design, retail, marketing etc. The issue with those designer brands is always what they spend money on, rather than their ultimate profit. I know people that work at similar companies, and often the high-end lines (eg Purple Label) make pretty much no money, yet are incredibly expensive – and Purple Label has gone up hugely too in recent years.
To be clear, not to defend the Liverano prices, but to push back a little against the ‘simply because they can’ attitude to designer brands.
And thanks, yes I understand on the opinion, those things are a lot a matter of taste, but it’s great having them. Cheers
Interesting that the higher end lines within a company may not make much money. Worrying too, as then there’s reason for them to be discontinued.
True. Often they give a kind of ‘halo’ effect to everything else, which is useful. But if they get bought by private equity, for example, it’s an easy thing to cut
Out of interest, roughly what % of the foreign price would the locals pay in Florence? Im wondering if its worth ppl going out there a couple of times during the year & as a bonus eating a rum baba in Cafe Gilli whilst there? Generally the practise of raising prices significantly for foreign buyers on a trunk show rubs me up the wrong way. The argument used by the tailors is that they have to pay for flights, hotel rooms, and a place to conduct business. Well its not the customers problem how they structure their business, in this case choosing not to have any fixed premises overseas. Not only does the customer not benefit from having a proper shopping experience, having to go to a cloth showroom, or hotel suite, but you have to wait ages between fittings, often are rushed as the tailor has booked back to back appts, which raises another point that are they actually paying as much attention when they have done 20 fittings one after another? Then they have the audacity to mark up the price for you as well! … rant over 🙂
Rups, that seems like an odd point of view. If they’re charging you more as a foreign customer because their costs are higher (hotel rooms, flights etc) the only alternative is for them not to come, in which case you have to go to Italy multiple times and it would be even more expensive for you. Or they rent an actual shop, which would be more expensive for them and again, more expensive for you.
It’s no different in many industries. By travelling to your city you benefit from the convenience while the businesses are lumped with all the extra leg work and cost. Typically it allows the consumer to sample the product or service who can then go onto ordering direct at a lower cost for all future purchases while only suffering one initial high ‘entry’ cost.
I like the model myself.
I agree, I fell off my chair looking at those prices, the last time I asked the coat was around 8,000 euros (that was a while ago). Now considering Antonio Liverano most likely don’t even cut your coat anymore, and now paying nearly double to what I asked? Ludicrous!
Go to A.Caraceni, I never received a better service than them, and I am their client, but definitely not a BIG IMPORTANT client. They personify a family business that just want to do their best, not be the biggest. Go to Liverano now, and what do you see, you be the judge!
Lastly, Liverano is surely famous, but their outsized fame in Asia is as you say largely due to Armoury, who quite honestly, introduced a basic half decent style to a bunch of men who previously had very little. For quite a while, ‘stylish’ men who suddenly enjoyed traditional menswear viewed Liverano as the only godly style (along with Neapolitan). Ironically, what are all these shops selling now? Casual!!! The oh so unstylish casual trouser with sweater and the odd coat look that they previously bashed.
And in Asia, price is everything, most people just love to tell you how much they pay for something. And as Oscar Wilde said… I’m sure you know the quote.
I find the topic and following of Florentine tailoring somewhat unusual. I spend about half of my work week in Italy, and know by now quite a lot of people who are interested in tailoring. I have never once met a person in Italy who has mentioned Florentine tailoring as a separate school, nor have I met anyone who knows Liverano. I mainly spend time in Milan and Rome, which are probably not their core markets. So that could be a reason they are not known by the people I speak to.
Furthermore, nobody can seem to point to any of their famous clients, unlike the various Caraceni’s, Rubinacci, and the well known English houses.
Italy is full of small tailoring operations located in smaller cities throughout the country, and Liverano is undoubtedly one of the most skillful. I wonder if his rise and fame is more due more to skillful marketing and use of social media at a time when tailoring was becoming increasingly popular in Asia and maybe also the US, rather the the quality of what they produce? The same could probably be said of many of the smaller Neapolitan tailors that have become well known outside of Italy.
I wouldn’t say the two are necessarily connected Andrew. Florence is not a centre of tailoring tradition to compare to Milan or Naples, certainly. But that doesn’t mean Liverano is not a very good or that Florentine style doesn’t have its own appeal. It’s just a lot smaller and it’s only been international promotion that has brought the focus on it. I also think it’s a style that has a real relevance today, more so than most of the squarer Milanese styles.
Also in my experiences, completely divorced from the points on price, Liverano has been superb quality.
Truth is, people here are probably the nuttier types, who are a bit obsessed with clothes. Many people who spend a good amount of money on stuff actually are not that obsessed, so they know their tailor plus a few, but do not know every ‘famous’ tailor.
I think what you and I believe, and others here may disagree, is that their fame, reputation, and price are very disproportional.
Hi Simon,
The coat is really wonderful. Can’t get over the price though! I personally think it works better with jeans than it does with tailored trousers because of how casual the colour is. Have you had it let it out in the waste since it was first made? I remember seeing the coat in old posts and it seemed more supressed and fitted but maybe that was just the photos. It just seems to fit better in these latest shots. I am planning to get my first bespoke coat made (only previous items were shirts) and would like a navy DB due to how versatile they are. I would typically wear with a similar outfit to what you are here so Jeans with shirt, knitwear or jacket and just wondering which style you would recommend. I feel the Ulster would be best but then the shots of your latest DB coat by BnTailor look great as well. I am also thinking slightly longer than this coat, just below the knee – is that something you would change if you had it commissioned now? It would be to good to know your recommendation for a bespoke overcoat around the 3-5k mark (if they exist).
Many thanks,
Chris
Hey Chris,
No it hasn’t been let out since it was first made.
I’d still recommend an ulster I think – it’s that touch more casual so should work better for you.
On length, I like this but it is just below the knee?
On a bespoke coat at that price, yes there are lots of people I’d recommend. B&Tailor certainly, but also Whitcomb & Shaftesbury, WW Chan, and Ciardi is that in pounds if we’re talking pounds rather than euros. In fact most places apart from the bigger English or French names should be in that bracket I would have thought
I suggest you think about this a little more…a navy DB typically worn with jeans doesn’t sound like the best combo: too formal? What cloth? I have a navy DB but would only wear it for work.
It’s true, depends how much you want to be able to wear smarter as well. I’ll have a piece showing a navy one with jeans soon, though my De Cesare can be worn that way in that Fox cloth. And something like a grey herringbone would be more flexible
Blimey, €14750 for the coat…? I agree it’s a lovely coat but…
Ah, but as Mr. Liverano understands, €14750 in hand is worth €29500 in the bush!
The photography makes all the difference. The coat looks much worse here than in the original post. The full body profile shot is especially unflattering, and I’m not surprised that the angle is not used much in other posts. The coat looks too big and the posture hunched. Darker jeans would also work better here.
Thanks Ben. I don’t think you can blame the tailor for my posture! I like bluer jeans with the warm colour of the tweed personally
The angled shot, with collar turned up, ball cap on and hands together is excellent, lighting and all.
Do we call that quarter angle or three quarter angle?
I’d say three quarters, but it doesn’t matter either way really
Isn’t the point of bespoke to correct for bad posture?
It can’t change your actual posture Ben, no. Only you can do that. It just makes a suit that fits your posture, rather than a RTW suit that may not
Hi Simon,
Wow, this remains a thing of beauty. And a beautiful fabric!
I hate to be the person that talks about price, but i am wondering whether you feel that you are getting alot more by going to Liverano, given the 15k euro cost. It really is very expensive. My wife had an overcoat made by Katherine Sargent for approx. half the cost of this, and 15k is surely only justifiable if you place alot of value on the Liverano name. I can’t help but feel that the many other tailors you cover offer better value.
That’s not to detract from the overcoat – it’s certainly a keeper!
One other small question – it looks like you are pairing your Dovers with a very casual jean here. Are the Dovers too smart, or they go well together? I have the same shoes, but they are new and i suspect don’t have enough signs of wear to go with such a casual jean (yet).
Thanks!
I do agree Rob, the prices have been that way for a long time and it’s only got worse over time.
I think the Dovers work OK, but only in a casual material like suede, or perhaps a tan-coloured leather.
I had a jacket made from that cloth so understand its weight , feel etc .
After having the jkt made I immediately regretted not using the cloth for a coat .
The cloth is so warm and ‘springy’ … a real stretch quality to it .
Personally , I’d go for a shorter coat simply because it’s rarely so cold in the UK .
I think the main sticking point will be the price . Yikes !
Liverano being a tailor whose cut I long admired . I recall the Hong Kong guys a Prologue mimicking his cut .
It’s a shame it’s not more affordable so it can be something within most peoples reach .
P.S.
on coats would you , as with RTW jkts, suggest always getting RTW jkts altered ?
E.g. alterations in terms of waist suppression
Yes I would Robin, if you need it anywhere then alterations can definitely improve a RTW coat, though they’re often less needed.
The length is something I like for the style rather than the warmth
Very beautiful coat and fabric! Is there some asymmetry on the top row of buttons near the chest? One seems higher than the other.
No, they’re level, it’s just a soft light material and things move around a little bit
Curious why you swapped the buttons from the original horn, have you made any other adjustments to this coat over the years? If you were to order another in this same pattern, what fabric/color do you think you’d choose?
Given the Liverano expats are offering this coat at a third of the price, is there any benefit to the original house cut versus the other guys (Qemal, Simoncini, Selimi, Hojun…).
Hey Mel,
I just prefer the really matte, dusty horn the English tailors tend to use (particularly A&S) and the Italians rarely have that as an option.
If I was making another in the same pattern, my default would be a navy or grey herringbone, but given I’m fairly covered for those, I’d look today at some kind of textured dark brown potentially.
I haven’t seen the ulsters from any of those makers, but I wouldn’t imagine there would be much difference no!
In the front photos, both collar up and collar down, is it just me or the top button looks higher on one side than the other? The middle buttons look much more level.
I had skimmed through the article in the morning without looking at the price, and now that I come back to see some comments and all of them are about the price, I had to check it out… wow. Let’s just say I’ll never be close to being able to afford or justify something from them. But if they have been charging this for a while and have only gone higher, it’s clearly a business model that works for them. Who am I to give suggestions on how to run their business?
Hey Dario, there’s a comment and reply above about that, on the buttons.
Bearing in mind the untaxed income you’d need for 15k net, you’d be brave to leave this coat in a restaurant cloakroom…
I imagine the type of restaurant a guy who wears a 15k coat goes to doesn’t attract that many opportunistic coat thieves … if they go to a restaurant that is & don’t have a private chef working for them) Still I agree, as mistakes do happen, & a customer wearing a HK tailors’ (mentioning no names) coat in a similar cloth might accidentally walk out with it 🙂
Hi Simon,
Looking at the prices, what is ball park figure for a comparable l London tailor for a 2piece suit and overcoat?
Regards
Stephen Dolman
I haven’t bought an overcoat in the UK for a long time, but a recent comparison that’t towards the top end but not the most expensive would be Taillour, which was £4800 for my suit here
I’d guess Taillour’s price point will be quite a bit lower than many West End houses. A&S overcoats were around £6,900 when I ordered one last year (more for camel, cashmere, polo coats, etc) but there’s been a subsequent price increase for 2024. I’m also sure that prices for two piece suits are £6k or more at lots of the places on or around Savile Row.
Thanks GA, yes the Row houses are a notch higher, interesting to have more current prices. It’s a shame so many have gone up so much
im surprised that they have gone up tbh. i would think post covid, demand for tailoring is down so tailoring houses will automatically adjust prices downwards. but obviously there have been some upwards cost pressures too.
I don’t think tailoring or most bespoke really goes down in price like that, but yes costs have definitely gone up
This coat generated a heated debate last time i seem to recall with respect to its cost and will do so again i imagine based on the today price. £14k is just to much. I don’t care how you want to justify it, it is to much. No doubt there will be a stream of comments following this one trying to justify circumstances in which this is ok. Its not, its just to much.
I think the only way you could do it would be if there were a significant design, marketing and retail cost involved in it as well – as there is with a designer brand.
If Liverano were a company like that, it would be the kind of price that would be charged. The bespoke tailors for Hermes in Paris always had a 50% mark-up over the tailor themselves, but that was a pretty fair reflection of all the Hermes costs
I’ve heard about Hermes bespoke. Have you seen any examples? Do you have any views on it?
No, sorry I don’t
Simon the costs at Liverano aren’t going to be that much different than the other Florentine makers. Yes the handwork maybe better, so add on a bit more in labour for that, but it still doesn’t explain the difference. Additionally, from what I understand Liverano does a high volume in terms of garments made, they have a big operation going. Those economies of scale should drive the cost per piece down!
I think to put it politely, Liverano just works on a higher profit margin) It’s like Porsche, which has the highest profit margins amongst auto makers. Interesting question would be, is Liverano like Porsche in that it makes perhaps the best (everyday) sports car on the road?.. or is Liverano very similar to the other tailors, but has caught a wave of hype on the internet and used this to cultivate a deep pocketed clientele esp in Asia?
Hey Rups – yes that’s true. Small differences in being in retail shops in NY, or the shop in Florence, but very similar.
Economies of scale don’t really factor much into bespoke unfortunately. And Liverano aren’t that big anyway – smaller than all the English houses
This coat ,because of the price, is rather like a work of art that is much appreciated until the price is disclosed .
At which point there are gasps and it is no longer appreciated but derided and ridiculed.
A shame really .
I think that’s what prompts the question “where can I get this but for a much more reasonable price ?”
See comments above on that Robin
In six years the cost of this coat increased from 8650 in 2018 to 14750 today?!
Yep, see other comments above on price!
Tell your detractors that the coat is therefore — clearly — a very good investment.
This is a truly awesome coat in an incredible color. Love the fact that it looks just as good — maybe better — with jeans and a baseball cap as it would with a suit. That said, is it, strictly speaking, an “ulster” coat? I thought ulster coats were those single breasted Victorian coats with the cape (and a bowler).
That’s where they originated, but today the name tends to refer mostly just to that shape of the collar
I’ll ask about price but at a slightly different angle 🙂 We keep hearing about the casualization of clothing (which I would imagine decreases demand) yet established bespoke houses still seem to be able to charge a substantial premium. Is that because there is continuing demand for the very top end whereas the middle ground is suffering? I would be curious to hear your thoughts.
As you mentioned it is a shame Savile Row is becoming increasingly expensive. I will most likely order an overcoat form Steven Hitchcock whom I’ve used on several occasions in the past as a gift to myself for a special birthday. His price is currently GBP5500 + VAT. Which has gone up substantially from 2021. It’s a shame as I would have been able to justify him for one purchase a year in the past but now it seems it may have to be every other year. First world problems I know, but I hope they know what they are doing as there is the risk this may not be feasible long term and they risk losing their core customer base.
Interesting, thanks Nick, it’s really valuable I think to us on here, but also to tailors in general, to see how people make these kinds of decisions.
I think most tailors have put prices up through necessity rather than choice – eg it’s a lot more expensive to travel to and stay in the US now, aside from any other costs. And remember most English tailors make most money in the US, not the UK.
But overall yes, I think the top end is OK in terms of being able to pay for these things, but the middle ground really suffers. Interestingly, historically this is more what it was like – ordinary people did not order from Savile Row, it was exclusive but also much more expensive relative to incomes. The problem is that middle ground of tailors that exists less today.
I think you raise a very good point. The rich, at least a substantial part of them who do not strive for a frugal reputation, do not really care how much they pay. But from my experience from private clients, they want the best and most prestigious (i.e. Savile Road). But the well-off upper middle class likely buy more RTW, benefiting from the savings of industrial production and sales but still getting the same quality of cloth and ideally the close to the same quality of work.
But also from my experience successful entrepreneurs, who value wise judgement and a commercial sense, only like to pay the market price even if that is high on Savile Road.
Therefore, I still wonder how Liverano can be successful, clearly being overpriced by far.
“And remember most English tailors make most money in the US, not the UK.”
I’d be interested in hearing a little more on that if you have time.
Is this because there is more of a wealthy celebrity market in the US… other factors?
It’s mostly the result of two things. First that the US is just a much bigger place than the UK (about five times the population) and second that there are very few bespoke tailors in the US (there is little tradition of it, and English tailors have been going there too long)
There are tailors in other parts of the country who don’t have the overheads of central London and so are less expensive. Current Savile Row prices shouldn’t mean the end of bespoke tailoring. Made to Measure might also be worth considering for items that won’t be used very often like evening wear or that will be subject to heavy use like a jacket for frequent travelling.
Did it double in price since you hade it made in 2018? That article said: €8650.
Well, 70% yes
Beautiful coat indeed, but massively over expensive.
Hi Simon! Thank you for this article.
It made me wonder if you could create/update an article on your favourite bespoke commissions.
I remember you mentioning your cashmere Cifonelli coat but later regretting its over-formality. Or, in the same vein, your Gaziano & Girling loafers which seem to be more rarely worn.
I think it would be an interesting read which would echo your more a casual approach to dressing at this point in time.
Alternatively, an article on your favourite RTW articles would also be interesting.
In any, thank you again, I always enjoy reading you!
Thank you Nicholas, good suggestion
Perhaps with how your preferences have changed and why
Thanks Ronnie
Second the request for the RTW article, your piece on the Rubato Officer’s Chino motivated me into purchasing a pair, now I wish all my trousers were made on this pattern!
Thanks Henry. I presume you saw this piece on my favourite clothes ever?
Another rant regarding the pricing: as a long-term customer of Sartoria Corcos just round the corner, I can affirm that the Liverano price is astronomical within the context of Florentine tailoring. Yes, they have more marketing spendings and staff on payroll, but Liverano costing four times more than another established tailor with same if not superior quality is simply absurd. Hats off to them if they can make this sustainable. Lovers of tailoring, do stay away.
Simon the debate about prices, and indeed the specific comments around current prices for a suit on the Row points again to your doing a piece on regional bespoke tailors in the UK who routinely deliver Row quality for half the price.
It is time for you to reconsider your position on this?
Thanks Peter, but no no plans to do so. There are plenty of lower value options among other tailors covered
Lower value or lower price?
Price
What’s finishing like at Corcos? Do they do a lot of handwork and the like? Price of suit if you dont mind sharing?
I don’t have experience with other bespoke tailors to compare with, but Corcos has good finishing to my eyes, a lot of handwork and very thorough fittings. Great sense of style and honest guy to deal with. Price can be found on his official website under the House Style tab.
Just FYI, he is not accepting new customers until 2026.
I think given the post today its even more apparent why he is so busy.
Thanks Troy. Though as noted above there is a surfeit of ex-Liverano makers out there as well now
A gorgeous coat with a price for someone very very rich or someone like you who makes a living from clothing. I admire it always when i see it but even if the price was 50% less it would still be a lot to me. Have you ever thought of making the ps single breasted coat at that color ? It would maybe look nice
Nice idea, no I haven’t
I like the idea! Is the cloth about the same weight?
No, this is rather lighter than the donegals used for the PS coats
I did not want to write another post about Liverano pricing (which is outrageous), but thought of coming from another perspective. After reading PS for some time, I thought I understood the advantage of bespoke over MTM or OTR. However, it seems to me that at a certain point going fully bespoke has a diminishing return. I have had one bespoke item made by a Naples based tailor which was a sportscoat. Considering the cost and time involved for travel, having to pay duties and the fact I did not see what was so fantastic about the sports jacket, I think bespoke is over hyped. I was left with a feeling that the process was not worth it. Perhaps I had psyched myself and put bespoke up on a pedestal which led to some disappointment on my part. I know Simon has written how he views bespoke as 3 dimensional. But, I do not see it. The advantage I think bespoke has is the style, i.e Neapolitan, and the different fabrics the tailor has access to. Lastly, I can see why Antonio Liverano is always smiling in photos. I would be too if people willingly paid that much for my bespoke products.
Bespoke, in fact like most luxury products, certainly has diminising returns. And it’s also true that people put bespoke on too much of a pedestal. But also bear in mind this is one experience of bespoke – one style, where with Neapolitan there is less of the 3D shape naturally, and of course not everyone needs to travel etc to access it
I’d like to add that another advantage of bespoke is ability to accommodate various body types in a way that MTM and OTR can’t. Since I deviate from the norm a bit in the front and a bit in the back, it adds up and I can’t find a OTR jacket that has fit I’d be satisfied with. There are a lot of men out there with what I consider ill-fitting jackets, they just aren’t aware of the fact or don’t care that much.
The price is just the amount someone is ready to pay! If they ask 15K, this is probably because someone is ready to pay. You would be in this range with a RTW Loro Piana. When your watch is worth more than 100K, 15K for a great coat is simply ok…
Hi Simon,
Fascinating read. My husband put me onto your blog as he begins his life- time foray into British- made clothes and tailoring. I was wondering if you had any recommendations for Women’s coats of a similar style, but not a similar budget! I cannot find anywhere online… preferably British- made but beggars can’t be choosers.
Katy
I’m afraid I don’t, sorry Katy, I wish I knew more quality women’s brands, and indeed a women’s blog with a similar approach to this one
Hi Katy
I don’t presume to have any expertise when it comes to women’s clothing (or men’s for that matter) but I was drawn to EdNerat coat’s (www.ednerat.com) account on Instagram when shopping for a gift for my wife.
I have no experience of the product or service (my wife bought herself a coat, ruining my carefully laid plans) but I thought it was worth sharing given they clearly state it’s British made bespoke.
Thank you James. Next time, we’ll be there!
Go on, you can do it Simon. Women are hugely underserved on this.
I believe there are tailors in London who specialise in women’s clothing, with at least one travelling abroad, if that is what you are looking for.
There certainly are – I’d recommend Kathryn Sargent there, and Kimberly Lawton. I haven’t tried it but there’s also the Deck for MTM
Thanks all for the replies. Any help in the right direction is fantastic!
You could try emailing Erlend Norby at Taliare in Marylebone (https://www.taliare.com/), who makes MTM women’s clothes as well as men’s, and is well priced. He did a really lovely jacket for my wife, and is also a thoroughly nice guy!
Simon, almost everything you post I like, but frankly, I don’t think this coat goes with jeans (or at least your jeans in the photos). The photos with the slacks just suits it much better, IMO.
It’s SUCH a statement piece, with the texture, obviously, but also so much light is nestled in the weave, like a Rothko, almost (a Rothcoat??).
Cheers Joe. The jeans are probably a bit more personal taste
I recently bought your collab coat from The Anthology. I can obviously see the subtle differences in style (although the back is nearly identical), and clearly the colour, but feels like the Anthology one offers amazing value vs this piece – as nice as it may be. I do also prefer the other one does not seem to be creasing nearly as much.
Yes, on the creasing note what I said in the text
Hey Simon, you seam to wear those 70s Levi‘s a lot lately. I find the cut works great with tailoring. Ever thought of making something similar for PS with BHL?
The problem is the wash – there are lots of great jeans out there, including from BHL, but none of the makers does a good wash on them so can’t do this lighter blue colour
I think there’s a difference between marketing & quality. Liverano has firmly established itself as the Louis Vuitton of bespoke tailoring – not for people who love clothing. They’re targeting people who just want to pay more for clothing (regardless if it is good or not). They’re definitely not getting many local customers at those prices.
Don’t get me wrong, the coat is nice, but it’s nothing special & that price is wild. It’d be interesting to know how many people actually paid 15000 for a coat vs. how much they’re now charging.
As comparison to Florentine tailoring, it’s not even within the realm of normal. Consider Gianni seminara, kotaro miyahara’s (Sartoria corcos) maestro charges 2700€ for a suit; Francesco guida (another old maestro in Prato, who trained kotaro as well) is around 3000€ (I can’t remember).
For what it’s worth, one of my friends who ordered from liverano last year didn’t recall paying almost 10k for a suit.
Thanks JR, and I agree. On the last point, in case it makes any difference the prices I was given was for abroad, eg for New York
I remember decades ago first seeing on the streets this look of a formal coat paired with a casual ball cap. I felt at the time that it was incongruous at best, or brash… or even a mark of youthful naiveté. It’s grown on me since and now even looks downright sharp.
Interesting to hear how that’s changed for you Leif
I’m sorry to continue the price discussion, but the shock runs too deep.
Let’s do the math. The fabric plus other materials costs, let’s be generous, 1000 euros. The working hour of a qualified tailor in Vienna, where I live, should reasonably be calculated as 50 euros net per hour. So about 60 euros an hour. I know several excellent tailors here who calculate with these 60 euros internally. The labor costs in Florence are certainly no higher than in Vienna. A suit takes about 80 hours, they say. A coat probably takes about the same amount of time. That makes labor costs of 4800 euros including tax plus 1000 euros in material costs. That’s a total of 5800 euros. That is certainly reasonable. Let’s add a little profit on top of the labor costs, which are calculated already with a little surcharge. Then 7500 or 8500 euros sounds quite ok. But 14750? That’s no longer justifiable. At least for me. I wouldn’t buy at that price under any circumstances, even if money wasn’t an issue for me at all.
Not to defend it Rainer, but this is for something made abroad – so always factor in three visits to New York (obviously spread across various customers)
Not only that, but the costs of everything has increased. If tailors are only charging what it might cost to make the piece that a client commissions how will they cover the rent or mortgage on the place that they work, how will the cover the city taxes, the utilities the running of the website an accountant and all of the other unseen costs that go into running and managing a business. I’m not a tailor but I’m sure that an Ulster Coat isn’t one that any Tom Dick or Harry that calls themself a tailor could make. One final point, after years of working in whatever industry you do, do you want and expect a pay rise or are you happy to earn the money that you earned years ago?
I rarely complain about prices. I didn’t want to do that here either. Things cost what they cost. If something seems too expensive, I move on and look for alternatives. Each provider should charge the surcharge that seems appropriate to him and that the market allows. However, from the perspective of someone who is passionate about the topic, I see the danger that the passionate will turn away and leave the field to those who just want to show what they can afford.
Nicely put Rainer
hi Simon, I believe in some cases the host (e.g., the Armoury) pays the travel for the tailor who comes for the trunk show. They also take a pretty large cut of the tailor’s revenue. Their argument is they organise the event and supply a lot of the clients. Could that be a reason for the cost: after Liverano pays the Armoury their commission he ends up with the same as a local pays in Florence?
This would not be the case for English tailors who do not use the support of a retailer to organise the trunk show.
You’re right, the role of retailers certainly makes a difference, though most others I know don’t work that way – unlike The Armoury, they don’t pay the costs but also don’t take as large a share of the price. That relationship certainly made a difference to Liverano prices when he first started travelling; I don’t know what the relationship is if anything to the price increases
You are being very generous with the calculation. Material is 600 Euros tops. I would estimate labour cost to be 20-30 Euros/hour maximum, if it’s not done by an apprentice working for free. Total number of hours needed is 40-50 hours maximum. No way it gets close to the 70-80 hours quoted by a lot of tailors these days. Thats makes total material and labour cost around 2000 Euros.
There are quite a few simplifications in these calculations, but ones worth mentioning are that there isn’t the cutter’s time, which is obviously more expensive, there is nothing included for creating fittings and recutting and remaking, and the fact that the amount of tailoring time varies hugely between houses depending on how they make. From a Neapolitan to Cifonelli for example.
Out of curiosity, which tailor do you use in Vienna, Rainer, and would you recommend them? Sadly not much discussion of places in this city on here or in various other fora…
Something to consider, perhaps the price quoted is intentionally high to dissuade more orders. Keep in mind, Liverano is 86ish years old, maybe he just don’t want to make them anymore.
Wow that must be the more expensive tailor right now!
Lovely coat – but why do the top buttons appear to be at different heights? I’d assumed you had the coat on a bit lop-sided at first, but the bottoms seem level. It’s most noticable in the second photo down.
Comments about that above Tim – the buttons are level, I think the top’s just slipping a bit with the lightish cloth
Simon, I don’t usually comment about the price but this is just astonishing. After seeing the price the coat no longer looks appealing to me, it is questionable whether Liverano still fits your blog.
Best,
Ben
I know what you mean Ben
As far as i can see no one has asked the most obvious question yet – and that is: Based on your love of this coat would you commission one at today’s price?
Very good point Richard. No I don’t think I would. My only caveat would be that I’d like to see what other tailors did for an ulster (without asking them to copy the Liverano one)
But assuming you didn’t already own one but felt motivated by the style as you must have done the first time around?
Yes I’m assuming I don’t already own one, and I would certainly be motivated by the style. I don’t think I would buy one, but my point was only that I’d like to see what other Florentine tailors do as an ulster, as I’ve never done that. If I was looking for one I would explore all those other options too and see which I liked
“The Florentine attitude to tailoring” is interesting to think about as my own approach has the same goal from the opposite direction. So while the Florentine way would be dressing down formal clothing with rustic colours/materials, I tend to dress up rustic materials for example cords in grey or navy, country brogues in black, but not the roughest version of those so mid-weight fabric and a discreet sole. I enjoy how this way I’m able to be relatively casual without being obviously informal. Like in the “which office are you?” article at the intermediate level of formality the choice between dressing up or dressing down is most noticeable and there are thousands of permutations.
Simon- As you typed the 1 in front of the 4 (although pretty sure you use Dragon VR) you knew this would set off some fireworks. The comments are a testament to the sophistication of the PS community. They value and are willing to pay for craft. But they won’t be fleeced.
I did indeed Robert. And I was surprised when I was told.
It is a beautiful coat, but if I were to wear a coat of that material with jeans and suede boots, I would prefer a raglan, as more casual and easy to wear.
You’re right, it would be more casual and easier. If you only had one, that might be the right choice. There is something about the less expected combination of the DB coat with more casual things though
Yes, I agree with that.
The coat looks like the fabric is under set and the mill wrinkles have emerged. I have seen this happen on fused garments , fronts are flat but are showing mill wrinkles . The cause is the fabric has been set lower than the temperature of the fusing press .
Hi John,
Thanks for the points, though having had a quick chat to a cloth expert, it’s really not possible to conclude that from these images, and the material is not underset – it’s a looser set than most overcoatings, but that’s standard for a modern tweed jacketing. As mentioned in the text, the lighting also makes more of that difference in the cloth than in real life. And nothing to do with fusing.
John again ,
I meant to say the sleeves, back and side panel show the wrinkles but the fronts are flat . All the the creasing is in the warp/length direction same the fused garment .
Yes, understood John, thanks
Hi Simon. This is truly a beautiful coat. You mentioned the collar being “made of two pieces, with a stand in the back,” which lends itself to it standing more easily. I was hoping you could describe or show what you mean by that. Is it just a seam that allows it to flip up and stay more easily, or is this a unique tailored feature? Just curious…
It’s just how any regular jacket or coat is made – there is a collar stand and then there is the collar. The Liverano isn’t unusual in that way, the point is that the Ciardi we covered last time is unusual, being only one piece.
Simon,
It is a beautiful coat. My concern, rather, is one of forthrightness concerning comments to the effect that the pricing has gone up disproportionately and your response that this is an exercise in responding to inflation generally and maintaining margins specifically. And that one is entitled to one’s opinion but that such is at best a subjective exercise.
At issue, for me, is that this cuts again your broader argument that many of the joys of bespoke and well-made clothing are its sustainability, its support for local artisans and merchants, its value even to the common man.
And what I suspect is actually going on, because I have seen it done in other industries, is that Liverano and similarly situated companies are engaging in optimization pricing, having determined that they can maintain or even increase their profitability by making fewer products at higher prices.
And the problem herein is that this is in fact less sustainable — it requires the same overhead and increased travel costs to produce fewer goods; it is less local — the emphasis becomes on selling overseas rather than in the local community, which also significantly increases the environmental footprint; it supports fewer craftspeople, salespeople and component merchants — making fewer items means less business and the underlying goods costs and labor rates are more commoditized and thus fixed in nature; it makes these goods unaffordable for people of more modest means and destroys the long-term value proposition — if fewer people can save up to purchase such an item they will move down market to lower-quality, less-sustainable goods that provide less benefit to local communities.
To which you may respond that I am entitled to my opinion and such are the ways of the world. But this is not universally the case: were I of the opinion that it is better for me to fly my private plane around Europe rather than rely on the rails, such would be permitted to me by license but it wouldn’t be good for the planet or my fellow inhabitants. And analogous arguments are easily permitted here.
And my specific concern is that I suspect you actually could uncover these truths as part of your journalistic mission. Is Liverano in fact making as much product as it was five years ago, such that this is simply an exercise in supply and demand pricing and responding to increasing costs, or is it taking advantage of a captive audience and what is essentially free advertising on sites like PS to sell fewer goods at higher margins? You wouldn’t need to know their underlying financials to find this answer — and you could then share it with us to our mutual benefit.
You enjoy a privileged position in this small intimate market, and I gather you benefit from it enormously: in sales and advertising revenue, in consulting work, in preferential treatment from makers (more attention to your products knowing a review is in the offing, opportunities to purchase expensive goods essentially at cost).
But this is a privilege afforded by your readership, not the makers of these luxury goods, and I would argue that you owe it to the former to do some investigative work and take a more critical approach to the underlying business practices (not just the narrower comments on craftsmanship and quality) that characterize these artisans.
I look forward to your response.
Thomas
PS I should note that my own economic situation—I am a Manhattan-based business professional—would make a purchase such as this entirely in the realm of the possible. But I come from more modest means and so have a special animus towards economic practices that limit access to good, beautiful things that can bring joy for decades. And I am concerned that Liverano is trading on its sprezzatura reputation while engaging in practices that are essentially capitalist (i.e., profit maximizing).
Hi Thomas,
Thank you for the thoughts. Throughout this discussion I have tried not to defend Liverano’s pricing as a whole, but to make the occasional point about the context of other tailors, about inflation or about costs, in order to fill out the discussion. My role here is often to do this – to bring in other information or experience in order to make it an interesting debate, that other readers are interested in reading.
I would agree on your other points that I have a privileged position in the industry, and it’s one I take seriously. However, I would disagree that investigating how much Liverano is making, and what their margins are, is a good use of that. I think if the tailoring is this expensive, people will stop using them. A better subject is whether the product is good or not, the details and the style, and the other alternative tailors for it, rather than tailors’ business practices.
Thanks again for the stimulating thoughts.
Interesting comment on companies engaging in optimisation pricing. I wonder if it’s just because they can or because they’ve calculated that they need to i.e. they are ahead of the herd?
Possibly customers on the lower margin of income bracket would no longer be able to afford such a coat and would be ‘cutting their cloth to their means’ in this inflationary environment that we’re in. And to maintain profitably co’s have decided they can’t or don’t want to chase these customers down and instead increase prices for the other customers that aren’t feeling the pinch.
Simon mentioned recently that many heritage brands that have produced great pieces of clothing have diluted quality in order in order to survive. Presumably this meant they avoided increasing prices to some degree and maintained a broader customer base.
Lovely coat Simon! I’m wondering whether you have a rough guide as to where to put the height of the belt? It appears you have it splitting the top:bottom 50/50, but I’m thinking of making it 40:60 to make the bottom appear longer and more dramatic looking.
I’d say be guided more by where your natural waist is – where the coat would cinch in for warmth were you to do that. It’s usually the narrowest point
Great article – the style breakdown on coats is really useful for me as I am still trying to get my coats together. Looking at the material it looks really warm, but it’s a lighter weight so does that mean it’s more versatile? the reason I ask is that i run hot and layering can be difficult as i just end up taking the outer layers off.
Yes, I’d say it is Alex