Baudoin & Lange recently launched a new, perhaps more conventional range to their shoes, called the Ginkgo.
Allan asked me if I'd like to pick a colour or two of suede to make up in this style, and offer as part of the collection - as I did with the classic Sagans a few years ago.
I really enjoyed the process last time, adding the Bark Grey to the more B&L classic colours. It was interesting seeking out something that would be useful, yet unexpected.
So I happily agreed with the Ginkgo, and spent a few weeks back in the Spring going back and forth with suedes and deerskins, before sampling a handful.
The two shown here are the ones I went for: similar but subtly different shades of suede, which we're calling Pecan (below, top) and Walnut (below that).
The Ginkgo range is heavy on the neutrals, with creams, caramels and beige, and has classic black and brown as well as a couple of greens.
But most of the loafers I wear are brown, and with Summer shoes, some variation around a mid-brown; though nothing too pale, as they have to be worn with paler trousers or would create a rather strong look with something darker.
So several of my samples were shades of mid-brown, and these are my two favourites.
The walnut is a more classic mid-brown: warm in tone and something readers will be more familiar with from other, welted shoes.
The pecan is a little paler and colder. There’s more yellow in the mix, even a slight green cast.
Interestingly, though, of the two styles, I find I’m wearing the pecan most. It’s lovely with light colours such as the pale-biscuit linen shown here, but also good with mid-greys and all shades of green.
The walnut is a better partner to navy and other blues, though also sits nicely with grey, with pale colours and with darker greens.
The walnut has also been made up with a darker sole and heel, which suits it more and makes it a bit more classic.
Both are available on the Baudoin & Lange site, in their normal size range.
I described the Ginkgo as more conventional than the original Sagan, and I think that’s a good way to think about it.
The original Sagan is a very soft, unlined shoe, which is great in the Summer when lightness is a priority. But I know it's also a little too soft, perhaps even a little feminine, for some.
The Ginkgo is more like a normal cemented loafer in this respect. It’s lined (though in very thin leather) and uses a calf suede rather than lamb. Those two combine to make it look more substantial, as well as actually being more robust.
I can imagine the style will have a slightly broader appeal than the classic Sagans: more mainstream, less niche.
Interestingly, when you have lined lambskin, that’s often when shoes look the most delicate. The kind of super-soft, floppy loafers sold by Italian designer brands like Dolce & Gabbana or Gucci are usually in that combination.
The calf, the lining and the strap all make the Ginkgo more expensive than the original Sagan, which I can imagine will put them out of the reach of some: £390 rather than £325.
But as with the lambskin Sagan, you can’t argue with the quality of the materials. The suede on the Ginkgos is particularly nice - a small calf, with a lovely soft nap. (The Italians call this type ‘scritto’, describing the fact that the nap means you can write in it with your finger.)
And as a reader commented recently, the design of the strap is appealing. It’s wide, but softer at the corners than the one on the Sagan Grand, which is sharper and looks smarter.
Pictured here with the two Ginkgos is my navy knitted T-shirt from the Anthology, recommended recently in the Summer Top Five.
The design was tweaked slightly to make the body longer, and as a result it's wearable with both mid- and high-rise trousers. That's not necessary with these trousers though, as they're the higher waisted Hollywood tops, from Edward Sexton. More on those here.
Readers following Permanent Style on Instagram will also have noted I recently talked about a similar outfit, in navy and cream, as perhaps an example of casual chic. It's a very simple combination, yet well-fitted, high quality, and not without personality.
Photography: Alex Natt @adnatt
Very nice shoes!I am thinking about purchasing the Gingko.It looks to me very similar to the low slung Sagan the only style difference being the strap which as you say makes it look like a more conventional loafer.Is my assumption correct Simon or are there style points that I can’t spot from the photos?
That’s the big style difference, but there are a lot of other differences in leather and lining that make it look more like a conventional cemented loafer, as mentioned in the piece
Beautiful colours. I think they are handily my two favourite options for the Gingko (followed by Pinede, which looks lovely but less flexible).
Given the summer shoe article earlier this week, would you regard the Gingko as a substitute for the Sagan, the LHS or the conventional loafer (or none of the above)?
For the Sagan probably – an alternative for those that want something more conventional
Asked another way would you view the Ginkgo or LHS as more “”casual”? And which of the two less “dainty”? I was just about to pull the trigger on a snuff suede pair of the LHS when I saw this post. I really like the color of the pecan Ginkgo better than the snuff LHS, but I’m concerned about the profile. I have a pair of Sagan’s and while I love the bark grey suede, I’ve literally never worn them as I’m in the camp that finds them too dainty and somewhat effeminate for my tastes (they look great on others, but just don’t work on me unfortunately). Your thoughts would be appreciated.
I think you’ll probably find the Gingkos the same in that case, Marco. They’re fundamentally the same look and style – it’s a small variation, certainly compared to the much more casual LHS.
The LHS is much more casual and much less dainty
Thanks Simon, I appreciate the guidance.
What does “LHS” stand for?
Leisure Hand Sewn – it’s a model name from Alden. See this post for details
Whilst I like the idea of a kitted tee, the sleeves most often resemble a puffy blouse sleeve that I just can’t see past.
It’s less the case on merino ones, or finer cotton knits. It happens more on chunkier cotton knits like this one I find
Agree that the puffy sleeves can look slightly effeminate (I inevitably think of Anne of Green Gables going on about “puffed sleeves”). It’s hard to tell from the pictures – the one of you sitting down (at the top) looks fine, but the sleeves in the picture of you standing up with your arms behind your back do look a bit too puffy.
I think it’s a fairly small aspect of the shirt. Also, it’s more of a vintage detail that feels right in a shirt like this, given how much volume there is in the body too, going down into a close rib at the waist.
Morning Simon. Do you / do any readers have any experience with the B&L Sagan Grand line of loafers?
Yes, I’ve had a pair. Personally I didn’t like them as much as this Gingko as a more robust looking loafer
Hi Simon, well done — the colours you have picked look great. Do you intend to write a proper review of the Gingko? In particular, if it is comparable to the Sagan in terms of comfort, which is what I am sure is a key selling point of the Sagan.
Good point. Yes, when I’ve worn these long enough I might do something longer
A side-by-side with the EG Polperro would be interesting, visually they seem to be extremely similar.
The Polperro is a lot softer, more like the original Sagan in that regard
Ah thanks. If you have handled them, do you know anything that justifies the 150 GBP price differential between the Polperros and the Sagans?
Well, one obvious thing is the Polperro is in a calf suede, not a lamb suede, which as mentioned is one reason the Gingko is more expensive than the regular Sagan
Simon, could you wear these with smart shorts?
I wouldn’t probably, no
Leaving aside the differences in appearance, how do the Gingkos compare to the Classics in terms of fit and comfort? So the Gingkos mold to your feet in the same way? One of the unusual features of the classics is that they fit well on narrow feet. They are the first pair of standard width shoes that I have purchased that do not fall off at the heel.
I think these will do a little less, but to be honest I haven’t worn them enough yet to know really
Interesting review. The B&L website does not indicate ANY difference in construction between the Classic line and the Gingko line. Would you say the Gingkos sit halfway between the Classics and the Grandes in terms of construction?
Yes, though closer to the latter.
You’re right, B&L could do a better job highlighting the difference there.
Could you please confirm the material? According to the B&L website, the Pecan-colored Gingkos are made out of “Asteria Deerskin” rather than calf, as indicated in this blog post. https://baudoinlange.com/collections/men/products/sagan-classic-ginkgo-in-pecan-glove-suede
And as mentioned above, you would never know from the B&L website that the Gingkos are different in construction compared to the Classics.
Yes, it’s suede, not deerskin. That’s an error
Both lovely colors. I much prefer the Ginko visually to the Grand.
The outfit in these pictures is really quite nice, a great take on casual.
PS. Your tattoo now that it’s not shot in focus looks really nice in this regard too, btw.
Agree. I own a pair of Classics and have never seen a pair of the Grands in person, but based on the pictures, the Grands look slightly chunkier and less elegant than the Classics. Based on the pictures, the Ginkos retain the slim line of the Classics while adding a bit of extra construction / support. They also look less like slippers. The best of both worlds.
I have the Grands the Ginkgos and several Classics. They all have their place. The Grands are not clunky at all, they are just a more elegant version of a classic penny loafer. I got rid of some Lobb Lopez loafers because the Grands are more graceful, and lighter, but with some structure.
The Ginkgos are also structured and have a lining, so while very graceful and comfortable, not “buttery” like the Classics. I got the Greige because the seams are a different color, providing contrast and looking less conventional
I really like the Gingkos and Sagans but honestly I only wear soft loafers like this with cotton or linen trousers or suits.Otherwise,I boringly wear Oxfords/Balmorals like the Curzons from EG on most other occasions when I prefer sharper tailoring.That being said I’m often proved wrong!
Hi Simon- do you think the ginko would work with cream jeans and a more casual outfit or would you go sagan? Thanks.
Probably Sagan, though either is a little smart with jeans
Are you still not using shoetrees with your Sagans Simon? Any mind change on that? Would you use some with the Gingkos?
I’m not, no. I probably wouldn’t on Gingkos either, given there’s no more structure, just the leather and the lining. But I’m not so sure on that
Hi Simon, thanks for the nice colour review of the Gingko.
I have a question regarding material. I have a pair of classic Sagan in dark brown, and from what I understood or remember, the lambskin material was really hard to outsource, as it had to be soft like glove material, but still be able to hold its shape (which it does perfectly).
I would have thought this kind of material would be more expensive than a “regular” calf suede, as seen on the Gingko, thus the Gingko would be at the same price point or even slightly less expensive than the Sagan. What are your thoughts on this ?
ALso, in terms of materials and make, how would you say the Gingkos compare with similarly styled shoes such as the Portland by EG (https://www.edwardgreen.com/shop/shoes/portland-mace-baby-calf-suede-made-in-england-389-last.html) ?
Cheers
Chris
Hi Chris,
I can see why you would think that, but calf suede is more expensive. This is not a regular calf suede though, you need small skins to get this kind of softness and flexibility (one thing which leads to that expense as well).
For comparison with the EG models, see comments above in this post, and lots more on the Summer Shoes post last week.
Hi Simon,
A great choice of shades for Gingko loafers. Do you think the pecan shade would work with pair of light grey crispaire trousers.
Yes, I think either would be nice with light grey
Hi Simon,
Thanks for coming back, what do you think of the sand colour which they have named as clay. I have seen the colour in person and its still dark enough to wear with paler trousers.
https://baudoinlange.com/products/sagan-classic-ginko-in-clay-glove-suede
It’s nice. Personally I prefer the pecan, as it’s a little more interesting and probably versatile, but of course it’s the one I picked, so it would be
Do you think the Gingkos can be re- soled Simon?
I’ll double check what the guys advise
Going sockless can be viewed as a slightly effete look (many guys refuse to do so at all for that reason), and since the Sagan classics are slightly feminine in their slender, low cut, that only doubles the effect. So for that reason, although I sometimes go sockless when wearing a pair of sporty Italian driving shoes, I rarely go sockless with the Sagan Classics. They get a lot of use in the summer paired with high twist or linen trousers (with socks). Work attire is more casual in the summer, and when it’s blazing hot, the Sagan Classics are a great option.
Do you think the sockless look would be easier to pull off on a pair of Gingkos?
The other thing – and Simon, this might be something worth writing a post on – is that so much depends on the color and silhouette of the overall ensemble. Since the Sagans add a lot of flair, I find it’s best to pair them with more understated clothing. For instance, I have a pair of heavy but breathable linen-cotton canvas trousers that are in a fairly rich shade of blue. (Too bright outside the beach, perhaps). Anyhow, when I tried paring them with the Classics sockless, I got the following reaction from my wife: “Forget your purse?” The Classics work much better paired with grey high twist wool or with sand- or tan-colored linen.
Hi Simon, I’m sure you getting sick of all the comparison questions, but I still wanted to ask: do you have any views on the Adret ‘Cary’ loafer vs these Ginkos? Styling on the Carys seems to run closer to the Sagans but (at least on the pictures, I have yet to email Adam/see them in person) with a bit more structure a la the Ginko. If you have any thoughts would be curious to hear them. All the best, Jon
I haven’t tried the Cary, so I can’t say. Sorry
Hello Simon,
Compared to the Sagan, what is the sizing like with the Ginkgo (this is the correct spelling)?
Thanks, not sure how I missed that. I’ll change it throughout now.
I found I sized up – I think the lining reduces the space inside slightly. About a quarter to a half size. I’m between 42 and 43, but take 42 in the Sagan, 43 in the Ginkgo
Have you had a chance to try out the Sagan Stride, and if so, what are your impressions? Will you be doing a review?
Thanks as always.
I have, and it’s lovely but not for me – it’s more for the market of people that wear the Loro Piana shoes, which to my taste are a dressed-up trainer, not a replacement for a leather shoe. They never look right with tailored clothing, or chinos often for that matter. And they’re a bit too luxe for jeans.
Just stumbled into this thread. Don’t you think these would be a good fit for the new dresses down environment? For the occasions in which you want something casual that’s dressier than sneakers?
I think suede loafers generally work well in that situation, certainly. These ones are perhaps a little summer-y and a little slim for some guys, just from a style point of view
Simon,
I rather like the casual chic style and I live in a warm environment. My wardrobe consists mostly of polos, knitted tee’s and cotton trousers (I have several from stoffa). I often wear sneakers (canvas or leather) and very much so like traditional penny loafers, but I would like an in-between option. Do you find this is a wearable option? Any other suggestions for shoes that suit a casual chic wardrobe?
As a side note, I do have a pair of belgian shoes, but I don’t find them as wearable.
Yes, I think this would be a wearable option. It sounds like you basically want a softer, less structured version of a loafer. I’d look at the Sagan Grand as well perhaps, which I like in suede. Or the unlined suede loafers from Crocketts, Edward Green and so on.
My biggest question about whether you’d like these shoes, is why you didn’t find the Belgians so wearable.
Simon- curious if you’ve seen in person (or tried) the new rubber-soled Sagan Strides? If so, curious on your thoughts. Thanks.
I have. The make I like in the way I like all the shoes. But the style isn’t for me. They’re similar to the Loro Piana shoes, in that they’re incredibly comfortable, but they’re a trainer, not a shoe. And when people wear them with tailoring or any smarter clothing I don’t think it works. The sole makes too much of a difference.
Quite honestly, I bought the Belgian shoes rather impulsively and my style was still developing. I prefer an understated style that still has elements of elegance. I find the Belgian shoes a little rakish and because of that don’t wear them as often. I find that they’re kind of obscure, and because of that showy, for lack of a better word. I’d like something more subtle but a little more formal than trainers.
Ok, probably an unlined loafer then.
Obviously Belgians are less showy if they don’t have a bow on them, and little things like that too.
Just out of curiosity, why would you recommend an unlined loafer over the loafer in this article?
Do you have any unlined loafers in particular that you would recommend?
Because a loafer is less rakish, less unusual, perhaps less feminine. More classic.
Most brands have good unlined options these days – eg Crocketts, Carmina and Edward Green all do
Any thoughts on alden’s unlined loafer? I would also add, that this loafer would primarily be worn with casually as opposed to with tailoring.
Yes, if you mean the leisure hand sewn for example. See discussion on them here
Do you think the Alden LHS is limited to workwear? As I mentioned previously, I very rarely wear workwear style clothes (more often wearing cotton trousers from stoffa than anything). Any thoughts on Edward Green 137 Duke? https://www.edwardgreen.com/shop/shoes/duke-mink-suede-brown-137-last.html
No, I think it can be OK with other casual clothes too, and Stoffa chinos should be just about alright. The Duke is nice and would be smarter
Got it, thank you for all the help! I’m so sorry to pepper you with all these questions (and appreciate your help), but thoughts on the J.M weston moc 180 in comparison to the others listed?
https://www.jmweston.com/en/mocassin-180-cuir-veau-velours-marron
No worries. I can’t really comment on the Weston though, as I haven’t tried them
Based on the appearance, do you think they would work as a good casual shoe?
Yes probably
I got a pair of these in the Greige and love them. What I don’t like with this style in the colors Simon chose is that, as he says, they are a bit more conventional, but not only in structure. They can look too monotone, like other suede loafers.
The Greige has the darker leather outlines at the seams on the vamp and along the top surround, so looks more chic (my opinion) and the contrast make it seems less monotone and less conventional.
I have 3 pairs of classics, Grands and Strides coming, but these are the smartest look because of the contrast piping, and a bit more structure than the Classics because of the lining. A great shoe.
Do you have any experience with the original Belgian shoes from NYC?
How they compare to B&L for example. Thanks!
Yes, I tried them years ago. They’re comfortable and I do see the appeal in those friends of mine that wear them. But I never liked the little bow that much.
In terms of make, the materials quality in B&L is much better. The sole on the Belgians is quite nice, more comfortable and padded, compared to the rubber or leather soles of the B&L, and the last is more rounded with some people will like more if they find the B&L shapes a little slim.
Hello Simon,
Thanks for an insightful post. Personally, I think this kind of outfit epitomizes casual chic. I was hoping you could help guide me on a specific question about Baudin and Lange loafers as well as a more general question about the color of a shoe in the grand scheme of an outfit.
How is the quality of Baudin and Lange? The appearance of their loafers is wonderful; however, I’m reluctant to purchase a pair of the Sagan grande with a price point of $670. Do you have any experience with the Sagan Grande? Does the quality justify the price point?
I know this question will seem a bit algorithmic, but how do you decide what color shoes to wear with your outfits? In the past, I’ve heard that the shoes should match something worn on the top half of the body, so as to draw the eyes up to the face. Is this a general belief you subscribe to?
My most treasured and frequently worn item is a navy flight jacket from stoffa. If the above principle were true, would it be reasonable to wear a pair of navy shoes to draw the eyes up to the top half of the body? Or would this appear too contrived?
Thanks,
Matt
Hey Matt,
Baudoin & Lange are great, but they are expensive compared to other, welted shoes you might buy. I would say that if you don’t have other normal shoes already, you should look to those first.
As to colour of shoes, no certainly don’t match something you’re wearing on the top half. That’s not a good rule of thumb.
The most versatile colour is dark brown, and with casual clothing it’s dark-brown suede. After that it’s probably a dark-brown leather or black leather. Maybe have a look at our article here on a shoe capsule collection?
Thanks
Hi Simon,
I understand there are exceptions to all principles but are you not matching your shoes to the top half of your outfit in these examples?
https://www.permanentstyle.com/2021/08/adret-jack-bomber-jacket-review.html
https://www.permanentstyle.com/2021/05/casatlantic-mogador-trousers-review.html
https://www.permanentstyle.com/2020/05/summer-smart-casual-three-looks-three-levels-of-formality.html (outfit 2)
Perhaps this is simply a coincidence and/or much more common with casual outfits.
Good points Matt.
In those examples I am wearing the same colour of shoe as I’m wearing on top, but they are very much the exception. Outfits like that probably make up less than 5% of anything I’ve ever featured.
On the navy shoes, for example, these are great as espadrilles and perhaps as canvas shoes, but not very versatile and often a little flash as smarter shoes, such as loafers.
And in the Adret example, yes I am wearing black shoes but that is a colour I mentioned as a good option after dark brown anyway. And dark brown would also have worked well there.
I hope that makes sense?
Simon,
Thanks for elaborating, I appreciate your patients. On a separate note, I was hoping you could speak to the wearability of black suede loafers.
My wardrobe consists mostly of navy, grey and brown. I already have a pair of
Brown suede loafers and burgundy leather loafers as well as canvas and leather sneakers. My workplace is casual and off of work I prefer a casual chic look, much like the outfit with the Adret jacket. Do you think it would be premature to purchase a pair of black loafers?
What colors do you find they’re most complementary to? Do they work well casually? Do you have any recommendations on places to purchase a pair? I cannot find the Alden LHS in that color, unfortunately.
Thanks,
Matt
Hey Matt,
If that’s all you have, a black leather loafer might be a better choice, just because it’s less unusual.
But for more on black suede loafers, see post here.
Hi Simon,
Thanks for forwarding this along. Unfortunately, I did not see any recommendations for black suede loafers on that post. Do you have any black suede loafers you would recommend? They’re relatively difficult to find.
Only my Belgravia loafers from Edward Green – see post here
Do you have any thoughts on j.m Weston? Here’s a suede pair in black.
https://eu.jmweston.com/products/mocassin-180-cuir-veau-velours-noir-homme
JM Weston are great, and that loafer is an absolute classic.
Consider carefully whether it’s your style though. It’s quite chunky and casual, not like most of the shoes I feature. Really try it on if you can
Will do, thank you for the advice. Do you think it would be suitable for the outfit in this post or in this post https://www.permanentstyle.com/2021/08/adret-jack-bomber-jacket-review.html?
These two outfits most closely match my personal style.
Probably not, no. I think these would be a little too sleek for that
You think the outfits would be too sleek for the shoes or the shoes too sleek for the outfits?
The former
Hi Simon,
Quick question in regards to the Anthology knitted T-shirt. From your memory, is it ‘tubular’ or does it have side seams?
Looking at the sizings online and the size small is still 20.5 inches wide, so I would be thinking of having it taken in slightly, so would of course need seams to do so…
Thanks for your advice as always!
Cheers
Eoghan
It has side seams.
I’m sure you’re aware of this, but because it’s knitted it would best to use a fashioning machine at a knitter to take those seams in. It’s not as easy as slimming a shirt or suit.
Wouldn’t a normal navy t shirt from gap work with linen trousers?
That wouldn’t change my opinion, no