My favourite jeans largely come from brands that make in Japan, using Japanese denim, but that tweak the fit to make it their own. I don’t think it’s any coincidence that they’re also classic-menswear brands, who make or at least appreciate tailoring.
I've tried a few from more workwear-oriented brands, such as Full Count, and they are great. But little aspects of fit or wash tend to make them not as good on me. I’ve tried to explain why, below, because this is personal.
My other jeans are vintage - 501s from the 1960s to the 1990s - which is down to two separate factors: colour and pure love of denim.
I have yet to find a light-wash blue jean that I like from a modern brand, as they do have to be industrially washed. And the love of denim means I find it endlessly fascinating finding unique jeans, each of their era and style but also distinctive. This is a deeper involvement with denim that won't be for everyone.
Here’s a rundown of the jeans I wear, with brief explanations. Related articles on PS include what makes quality in jeans, how to wash and wear raw denim, and the extent to which jeans can be altered and repaired.
Size 32 (normal size, worked after shrink to fit)
These are my favourite jeans right now (above), and have been wearing in beautifully. Initially I got some veining from putting them on too high a spin with the first wash, but that’s fading as the rest of the denim does.
It’s a softer denim than most, including the other Bryceland’s jeans, which makes them very comfortable, and it has a tendency to go white along seams and wear points quickly.
The fit is just perfect on me. It’s mid-rise, with a slightly tapered leg, and crucially has a little extra room around the hips. Anyone that has larger thighs will love this - my bane was always jeans that were tight on the thighs but still gaped at the waist, and that was the original reason I went bespoke.
Rubato Lot Nr1 denim dark-blue rinse
Size 32 (normal size, once-washed so little shrinkage)
There isn’t much that separates the Rubato and Bryceland’s jeans, in terms of denim or fit. Rubato jeans are similar to the 933 (and 133S) from Bryceland’s, just a very slightly lower rise and a touch less of that fullness on the hips. They’re still a great, modern style that I know works well for lots of people.
I have a pair of these that’s a few years old (above), and love the blueness of the denim. It’s similar to the original Bryceland’s jean, the 133, and a very classic 501 colour. I was a little unsure on size as the 32 initially felt a little tight, but it gave enough and has proved to be the right choice.
The main reason I got the Rubato jeans was the fact the Bryceland's 133 was a little too wide in the leg for me. But Bryceland’s now also do the 133S, in the same fit as the 933, and I got a pair recently (size 31, they shrink less) that I’m looking forward to wearing in.
They’re a left-hand twill so should be smoother in the long term, though right now the aspect I notice most is they’re a darker indigo than the Rubato, which can useful style-wise (eg better with black shoes).
Vintage 1970s Levi’s 501s
No size (but not as relevant with vintage)
For most people, the only reason to go vintage is if they can’t find a light wash they like. There’s a lot of raw or one-wash denim out there, and my favourites are mentioned above. But there’s less washed denim because it’s an industrial process, and so much harder for a small brand to do. I've seen Blackhorse Lane go through that process in the past few years.
I have yet to find a light-wash from a modern brand I like, and so I’ve bought vintage. Orslow is probably the closest I found, but the fits aren’t great for me.
My favourite vintage pair is from the 1970s (above), bought at Le Vif in Paris, and I wear them more than any other jean. The quality from that period is as good as any modern maker; they’ve washed out nice and light; and the wear over the decades means they have the unique character that's the added bonus of vintage.
Blackhorse Lane NW1 ecru jeans
Made to measure
I have two pairs of white jeans (or rather ecru) but at some point I’ll probably switch to something in the Bryceland’s or Rubato fit. I’ve used the made-to-measure service at Blackhorse Lane to good effect, but sometimes it’s hard to know what you really want until you experience it.
I also have a pair from Drake’s (above) which are good, but it’s a very soft denim and doesn’t age in the way I appreciate in other jeans. The straight pockets with coloured linings are also not ideal. Hopefully it’s all good research for the blog, and for articles like this.
I'm really looking forward to wearing white jeans again when the weather turns. It's such an easy way to wear paler trousers, and they can easily be dressed down in a cold-colour wardrobe kind of way (as above).
Other vintage
I’ve collected a few other pairs of vintage jeans over the years, all of which are worn less than the seventies pair above, but which I love and are worth listing. I’ve linked to articles below that show them in use.
1960s blue 501s (above) - My first pair of vintage, the most worn and the most beautiful, but also the most delicate. They’re still wearable, but can’t be worn every day. Something you love as an object as much as a piece of clothing.
1990s black 501s (pictured top) - These are interesting as a demonstration of what ‘lower quality’ denim can be like. It’s smoother, more uniform, and while there’s definitely less character, in some ways it makes them easier to wear with tailoring. Picked up cheap - see article here.
1990s blue 501s (pictured below) - These were bought in research for that article above, but I kept them because they were a good back-up jean. They've proved useful, though I prefer all my others here.
2000s ripped 501s (second image below) - These were also cheap, and I loved how thrashed they were. Originally they came with big patches over the holes in the knees. I took them off, but am still in two minds whether I prefer the look with or without. They’re also the palest jeans I have, which makes them particularly nice in summer.
Lastly, a quick word on the bespoke Levi’s I had made in London years ago, because it says something about fits and fashions.
I have two pairs, and have covered both their making and the way they have aged. I love them, and still have them. But today, 10 years later, the cut is just too slim for me.
Changes like this are inevitable in menswear, and tend to happen in cycles that last perhaps 15-20 years. We covered it in some depth here.
This can be frustrating, but it’s a lot better than womenswear, and if you keep to moderate changes then the cycles are longer. Jeans are also so personal that I think I’ll always keep those bespoke ones.
Related pieces on denim (a fair bit - and not including style pieces):
- How Levi’s 501s changed over the decades
- What makes quality denim, and if you should care
- How to buy nineties Levi’s on eBay
- How jeans can be altered and repaired
- Whether to cuff your jeans (another one on changing fashions)
- How to wash, wear and generally deal with raw denim
- The finessing of jeans at Blackhorse Lane
- Wearing and washing and fitting white jeans
Ecru is not white Simon, rather a shade of brown. In sunny weather, this is my go to colour as your can wear anything your like on top and it is going to look good; t shirt, polo shirt, linen and there is no colour that won’t go with it perfectly.
Thanks Harvey. I think most people would look at ecru jeans and call them white, but the important point is that you generally don’t want a stark white, because as you say it is more versatile
Simon, hoping you’ve seen them in person, what do you think of the new white pique cotton “jeans” from brycelands, materiality and color wise?
I think they’re advertised as a stark white. Also I don’t think I’ve ever seen a cotton 5 pocket pant from pique cotton; if you’ve felt them, what’s the difference?
I have tried them once, but a while ago. They are whiter, and not really like a denim. An interesting look, but I wouldn’t say a jeans substitute
Good morning Simon,
Always love an article on jeans as i wear them so often.
I recently read your review of the Brycelands black jean as was considering buying their 133s model and i’m sure you said you went for a 32 in the black, and 31 in the indigo which is the other way round to what this article suggests? Would be great to know if one of them fits smaller than the other as i am about to order.
Thanks
Chris, you’re memory is better than mine! I’ve checked and you’re right, I’ll change that now… It makes sense because the 133S shrinks less, being a left-hand twill
Hallo Simon,
a very helpful overview. I have a pair of ecru Rubato jeans, that fits me well. So I am thinking of adding one more in black. But I want it to fade to grey as fast as possible. Do you think there would be a difference between Rubato and Bryceland in that regard?
Thanks,
Manuel
Simon, I would be keen to know which jeans (vintage or new) have the very worst fit for you as our body shapes and fit preferences are entirely opposite.. I have slim thighs, hips, seat and an, erm, unpinched waist.
Ha! Well, it’s pretty much all other modern jeans really. If I go into Levi’s and try current things, or someone like Orslow or Resolute, they’re usually tight in the thighs and yet too big in the waist.
Try a pair of Iron Heart 888s.
I second Iron Hearts 888s. To me they’re the best cut, Japanese quality but still not a typical Japanese cut.
Interesting Simon, as always. I just bought the Orslow 107 and I have lots of space around the thighs, more than usual in fact. More space than in my E5 relaxed tapered ones from Blackhorse Lane for example. Very much depends on the model I guess.
Here’s a question.
If I were to venture into wearing jeans, I would be looking to the conservative smart side of casual.
To that end it would probably be bespoke, probably from Blackhorse Lane in very dark navy or black Japanese Denim or another suitable fabric, (advice here), definitely unfaded, and no turn-ups,(cuffs).
Does that make any sense?
This is not my strongest area of men’s fashion so I need advice here?
Well, the reason to go bespoke would just be for fit, Lindsay, not to change the material or any other details. (Don’t be one of those people that goes for navy stitching.)
So I would try these brands in their indigo denim and see if the fit works for you, and if it doesn’t then try made to measure. Don’t change the fabric though
Excellent
many thanks
You’ve spoken positively about these before – I just wish Rubato and Brycelands did a mid-rise product.
Also they are fortunate you feature them as their website doesnt show anyone wearing the product, which doesn’t help give any idea of what they’d look on.
Sorry Chris, you’re saying they’re too high or too low for you? I would describe them as mid-rise.
They do both show images of the jeans being worn, though Bryceland’s more and perhaps more in look books and on social than on the product pages
Thank you – that’s really helpful. Rubato describe the fit as mid/high, so it’s helpful to get your view that it’s more mid-rise.
No worries. These are not clearly defined, and obviously it depends a bit on height as well
The problem why for many those jeans is high rise… Let’s take me. I’m shorter than you, yet take 36 or almost 37 in black horse lane. So for me rise will be way way higher than for you. (I imagine size 40 rise would sit on you where 36 sits on me).
Hi Simon, you say about potentially swapping to bryceland’s for your white jeans, I wonder if you have any experience with the pique material they use and your opinion on it vs standard denim? Thanks
Hey Harry,
Sorry I meant a fit like that or Rubato, and it would be the ecru from Rubato I’d pick. I haven’t tried the pique, but it wouldn’t be my first choice for white trousers like this
Hi Simon
I dropped you a comment on this but it hasn’t appeared as yet, so I will try again.
Ecru is a shade of brown, not white as you suggest. It is my go to colour for the summer months as it goes with any type and colour of shirt,; linen, t shirt, polo etc.
Really versatile as a colour,
Hi Harvey,
The comment is up and I have replied. As it says on the site when posting, everything is published by me so there might be a slight delay – no need to post twice. Thanks
Hey Simon,
I have a pair of FullCount faded 1102. They are nice but the fit just doesn’t seem to work for me.
I love your vintage pair. Is that a big E pair of denim? Just wondering what I should look for if I was to look for something similar at vintage stores.
It’s not big E, no. Once you get into the seventies they usually aren’t, but the quality is still very good so often you get better value for money.
We don’t have a comprehensive guide to identifying and buying vintage jeans (something like Heddles is better on that) but if you look at the links at the end you’ll find a lot more on my vintage and how I’ve bought over the years
What is the scarf you are wearing in the second picture? Looks really nice!
It’s an old Drakes one. Lambswool
Hey Simon, thanks. Just to add my two cents:
Orslow denim I have is great. 105, sz 2 (32 normal waist). Great fit, great fading over the years. However, I own two old pairs, and tried to buy another one that proved to be tighter than the 2 first ones. It could be a change in the sizing from Orslow, or just the specific one I had was a couple centimeters tighter all across, but worth flagging.
Rubato is great as well, though they do not give out as much on the waist as the Orslow ones, nor fade as much. Fit is very good. Stayed with my usual 32. Very tight at the beginning but now a good fit, which I can wear without belts unlike the Orslow ones.
I also own a pair of Boncoura denim. A bit tighter and stiffer. Fading is fantastic however, in a much different way – purple-ish / green-ish and with a kind of spotting effect (if that makes sense), more than the usual whiter lines across the leg.
I wanted to have your opinion on denim and age of the wearer. As the generation for which it has always been the uniform gets older, I do not think this question is as relevant as it still recently was (as for sneakers, maybe) – but I think you’ll agree that the older the guy, the more comfortable and aged denim should be. I really dislike stiff, dark and tight jeans on older men, but that is obviously personal. Different for women.
Thanks, and yes I generally agree. Older men often suit more moderate styles, which I think goes both ways – not tight and stiff but not baggy and thrashed either. Straight cut, flattering fit, darkish to mid-blue
So why not reorder the bespoke ones?
They’re a lot more expensive, now more than twice the price
Lol inflation is real
To be honest it was strange Levi’s kept the price at £500 for so long, given their normal margins and the fact they were making them all in a big space in central London
So they are over £1000 now?
Sorry, no I meant they’re more than double the price of the other jeans mentioned here. I think they’re still £700
Currently, they are £795 per their (UK) website. But if you want anything heavier than 13/14oz or a lighter wash, you could be looking at somewhere like £950.
Blimey
Hi Simon,
do you think there would be a difference between the black Bryceland and Rubato jeans regarding fading? I would like them to go towards grey as fast as possible.
Thanks
Manuel
I don’t know to be honest Manuel. My Bryceland’s ones have done well, the nice colour shown after three washes. But I don’t have a washed experience with Rubato to compare them to
Brycelands 133 – lovely fit – wide leg , higher rise but far from sloppy and so comfortable.
Resolute 710 – Worn shorter “Hayashi style” – sharp slim 60’s fit that offers an lovely alternative to the 133. No bells and whistles and great denim. Have them in white too.
Wish I could get an Ecru pair in something close to the 133 fit – any suggestions??
I’m glad Permanent Style introduced me to Blackhorse Lane, they are my current favorite brand and fit me well. And they come in black and white, which is what I wear when i wear denim.
Hi Simon,
I wear jeans most of the time and have a mix of shades/ condition, for various looks and contexts. Whilst I have bought a few lighter washes I do enjoy, taking a dark denim to faded over time. I’ve found wearing for gardening is a way to accelerate the process. There is less chance of permanent stains as may happen with painting and the harder wear and soil have a softening impact in my experience.
On your last point re fit, whilst I have stayed the same size over the last ten years my preference for fit has definitely moved towards the looser end over the last few years, something I have seen you have mentioned as well. Thankfully Marrkt (great service) helps to save older items from going to waste and contribute funds to some new (larger) pieces!
Yes very true, and good point on gardening. Walking, hiking etc can be similar I find
Interesting. I like the idea of buying jeans from a maker that does more menswear-y stuff. I have never thought to do that. When one of my pairs wears out, I’ll have to check those options out.
Jeans that i love that I suspect you won’t are the arthuro from Berg and Berg. They are lower quality from other jeans I own and probably most that you own. Italian denim made in italy.
Yet I just can’t find anything like this anywhere else. They are a true high waisted jean that fit perfectly for my size (6’4). All my other high-rise jeans end up having to sit at a more mid point because of my height. Plus the two cuts, arthur and arthuro are more flattering on me then any other pair, particularly the arthuro with it’s surprisingly full leg. Took a little getting used to first, but now I can’t help but feel like any outfit that requires jeans looks totally incomplete without their silhouette. Have retired all of my drake’s jeans and now only reach for my BHL jeans when I’m wearing something particularly workwear-esque. Otherwise there is no comparison.
Probably my first step into valuing design and style far beyond quality.
Thanks Jackson, both interesting and useful
Any chance of adding a photo? The berg and berg site photos are so terrible.
Your description of the extra room around the hips and thighs on the Bryceland’s 933 / 133s reminds me of how Drake’s jeans fit me (in ecru, size 32). Would you say the silhouette of these Bryceland’s and Drake’s jeans is similar – in the relaxed fullness around the thighs, and in the way they taper gently from below the knee? If not, how does the fit differ?
I’d say they are similar, but the Drake’s is a touch higher in the rise, and a touch tighter elsewhere
Hi Simon, for the Brycelands you mention here that you took size 31, but on your original review you said 32?
Regarding black jeans, I am definitely going to give these a try. I was hesitant for years about ecru but, following an article from you, I bought a pair MTM from Blackhorse Lane and they are so versatile – smart enough for a smart-casual look, but can also pair with sweatshirts. I wore them all winter and found them so useful. I actually think a wardrobe of black, ecru and blue jeans covers the majority of my needs.
Could you comment on formality of ecru versus white jeans? To my mind they are equivalent. And both smarter than indigo.
Thanks!
Hey. That’s been corrected now, or should have been. Another reader pointed it out.
Yes I’d say they’re the same, it’s more the ecru just being less stark, more subtle
I have both ecru and white jeans and they are my go-to casual trousers in the spring and summer. Ecru is definitely more versatile and I find that is works pretty much any time. I usually only wear white on sunny days when the contrast isn’t so jarring. It took me one or two wears to get over the possible Miami Vice connotations, and now I really like them.
In my opinion, ecru also works well in the winter on a sunny day, whereas white is a bit too much in the winter.
Nice, sounds good Andrew, and yes I agree
Hi Simon: The belt in the first picture, more specifically the buckle, is that from ludens in Japan or? Hoping not, as I’ve had some difficulty getting them to respond to my inquiries. Many thanks.
It is, sorry
Hi Simon,
Great article. I wear jeans probably more often than other style of trousers and even wear them for work now that I’m self-employed I can be quite informal with my clients.
I agree with your comments about the beauty of vintage jeans – they can be a total bargain and often available in colours/shades that can be tricky to buy new. If you know what fits or are willing to chance it then vintage can be great fun.
Buying new can be tricky because, as you rightly say, fit is everything. Fortunately, internet shopping makes this easy with most suppliers offering easy returns and refunds. One source I do personally recommend is Rivetandhide – I believe you have been a customer of theirs too. The range is fantastic, descriptions are genuinely helpful and customer service is fabulous. They offer everything but if, like me, you want a mid/high rise, roomy thigh with tapered fit, then they are a great place to start.
One caveat though (apart from impulse buying Goodart jewellery when online at Rivetandhide) is to make sure all shrinkage is out before any jeans are hemmed. I’ve been surprised at just how much new denim can shorten just with a wash or two. Oh and also that fades can take ages and “breaking in” new denim can be a long process.
Great blog as always and I hope you had a fantastic holiday.
Cheers m, and yes good points. We covered this in one of the linked articles, on wearing raw denim (still something most readers don’t do, I think)
I recently purchased Iron Heart Indigo 21 oz Selvedge 634S, Size W33 x L34 and they are the best pair of jeans I’ve ever purchased. I’m 6’2″, 170 lbs. The only alteration needed was the length. I appreciate the weight and fit; they’re reminiscent of the 1966 Levi’s 501. I subscribe to the philosophy of owning and wearing one pair of jeans at a time, rather than having multiple pairs in various colors.
Simon in terms of fit between brycelands and rubato whats the difference in fit ?
I talk about that in the Rubato section
Aw yes sorry while i was reading the article got a call and forgot that.
Surprised by the coverage of Blackhorse Lane… the photo you say is of Drakes not Blackhorse and say you intend to change the Blackhorse ones to another brand but dont say why. Comes across very negatively of a brand that I thought you’d previously thought highly of.
You state you like Japanese fabric and make and yet dont include any Japanese makers. Is there a particular reason?
Hey Jerry,
Most of this is mentioned in the piece. Blackhorse Lane are great, they make a great product, it’s just that I’ve found the fits from Bryceland’s and Rubato work for me better. That is personal, again as I mention, so I don’t think it’s that negative about BHL.
On Japanese makers, I mention that I’ve tried a few but washes or fits didn’t work for me. Happen to go into more detail there if it’s helpful. Equally, mentioned a bit more detail in the piece on Orslow
Thanks for an interesting article!
In one of the comments, you advice against navy stitching. I am looking for a new pair of jeans and was actually looking for something with less contrast to raw denim than the usual orange. What are your thoughts on navy and other options?
I mean, black and ecru jeans have stitching without contrast colour.
They do, but I think jeans are so ubiquitous, myself, that it just looks odd when you change things like that. It makes a big difference to the aesthetic, so at the least you have to be completely clear that’s what you want.
I’d also say it’s part of a general urge to try and make jeans smarter, which nearly always fails. People make denim tailored materials, but they never look like jeans – just a denim-like tailored material. Same with navy stitching. The appeal of denim and jeans is in the rugged material, other things don’t change that.
I’m a 501 guy for 40 years… I just like the fit. The quality has gone down considerably. My current pair had terrible buttonholes so I had my tailor restitch them. They look and feel great.
What is your current thinking about the Fullcount 0105 Dartford jeans? In the original article you were complimentary about both the wash and fit (understand you had them slimmed a bit), and IMO they looked great.
My personal experience with Fullcount 0105 (raw not Dartford) is that the material is great, but the front rise is too low relative to the back rise. Hence I wear it only very casually with an untucked t-shirt, but it is good for that purpose.
Thanks Rags, yes hard to go into lots of detail in the article, so nice to have the opportunity here.
I do like the fit of the Full Count – you’re right, the front is probably too low compared to the back, but it’s still a better rise and fit on me through the waist and hips than any other of the Japanese makers, so I was quite excited when I got them, and the shape was good when I had them tapered a little.
I think the wash is something I’ve come to like less, and I’m honestly not sure if that is personal taste or something more objective. Those washes just feel too extreme to me now – not that natural or personal
Interesting, can you elaborate on what feels off about the wash compared to vintage jeans?
The fades are quite extreme, is one issue, so for example you get strong fade lines around the crotch area which don’t actually match up to where the jeans are falling on you, which can look a little strange. It’s rare for vintage jeans to have fades that are that strong, particularly if you’re aiming for a lighter blue like this one, so chances are they’re not being worn from raw.
I think also having such a lot of fading feels more noticeable when it’s RTW and there are lots of the jeans, all sitting there with the same fade. And then you do (or at least I do) occasionally see someone with those same fades as you. It’s the same with the black faded version they do – I wish I could get them but those strong fades put me off a bit.
Do you still feel this way about the front back rise mismatch on the FullCount Simon?
Curious to know what you think of the rubato front to back rise comparisons as well, for the chino and denim?
For the officer chino, it feels like the back rise is much higher than the front. But it works! It makes no sense to me how and why. Why would it work here, with these chinos, but less so with FullCount denim?
For their jeans, the opposite. The back rise seems oddly low compared to the front. How do you think that affects the fit and look?
Yes I do myself, but it is dependent on body fit.
The Rubato works well for me on all those three
Each to their own of course, but I think the Drakes jeans pockets are great. They can hold a big mobile phone comfortably, and it won’t dig into the hip when crouching or bending.
Thanks Mervin. To be honest I never put a phone in a hip pocket like that, but maybe it’s a size of the phone thing, or a body fit thing
Ah, interesting, where is your phone usually instead?
Sometimes in a back pocket, but usually in a bag or jacket pocket. It’s one reason guys that are into tailoring like to find lightweight casual jackets for the summer, like our linen overshirt or linen harrington. So useful having the pockets!
The back pocket is also my standard (my phone is rather small). I’ve never seen overshirts from the pocket perspective – but always thought I could do without it altogether as they have such a thin fabric. Good perspective, thanks.
Hello Simon, I love your articles on denim because personally I always have a very difficult time with finding the perfect pair. It seems though my proportions do not lend themselves well to a pair of modern denim, even from esteemed Japanese brands. Funny enough, the pair that has come closest to perfect in regards to fit for me, have been the Wrangler 13MWZ. Granted I haven’t washed them yet, but even in their “raw” form in black, they have a rise just over 34cm, and a leg opening of 21.6cm, with plenty of room to accommodate large-ish thighs and calves (74cm and 46cm around, respectively). I have yet to find a higher quality maker that can replicate that classic silhouette, so do you think I might be better suited to a MTM or bespoke option for denim? I live in NYC, so there might be some options around me but I’m not too aware of any.
Sounds nice Zawaad.
I’d try some of the makers I’ve mentioned to see if they work for you, and bear in mind you can make small changes like slim the leg with the inside seam, or nip the waist in a bit. I’ve linked above to an article on those kinds of alterations – it’s often easier to control and more predictable than bespoke.
If you did go bespoke, I think Levi’s in NY does it, at least in one store, and I think 3×1 do too, though I have no experience with them
Out of curiosity, who are you using to alter jeans in London? Guessing you aren’t using the retailer?
No, I use Blackhorse Lane, they’re great.
There’s a list of places I use for alterations like that on this page.
Thanks, probably want to update Graham Brown’s address on that page since they moved to Bow Lane
Good point, thanks Jerry
Hi Simon,
My jeans are all from Japanese brands and I can sympathize with the problem that the can be too wide at the point, where the belt is supposed to sit (if you wear one), but a good fit in all other aspects.
My question: Have you had RTW jeans slimmed at the waist, and what are the downsides of doing so?
I have done, yes Markus – there is an article on altering jeans like this that I have linked to in the piece above?
Hi Simon, do you know what article Markus S ir referring to here? About the fit of Japanese brands
You mean, which one am I referring to about altering jeans? It’s here
I thought he was referring to some article where you explained how Japanese brands fit compared to non-Japanese brands, if this is something you’ve covered before
Ah, no he wasn’t I don’t think
That would be an interesting topic but – from my experience – somewhat brand-specific. I find particularly confusing that most Japanese brands do not change their Japanese sizing for Western customers, but some do leading to confusion (I am an S with most British brands, more likely an M with Italian brands, and an L with many Japanese brands).
Specialized stores like Rivet & Hide and Redcast Heritage give good online advice, though.
Thank you both
Eh. I wish I could find NW1 fit but a bit lower rise, a bit smaller waist and a bit wider in the hips…
Well, Blackhorse Lane will certainly do that for you with MTM if you could stretch that far
One of my favourite topics. I’m an Iron Heart 634 guy plus Full Count 1102. Understanding how much good denim stretches is key to buying.
Lovely article. I have been a vintage (made in USA) 501 lover for a while, however as much as I love the cut, I do wish they were a little higher waister / had a higher rise.
Any recommendations here on vintage (or not) denim with a nice high rise?
Thanks!
Gianluca
It depends by how high you mean – I guess look at the Bryceland’s measures and see if that’s high enough for you. If not, another reader recommended Informale.
And with vintage, I’d look on eBay as we discussed here, and check the rise measures. They changed a lot over the years.
Personally, I think there are a lot of smaller American denim brands that make really nice jeans and for a much more appealing price than Bryceland’s or Rubato. Maybe a bit harder to get here in Europe, however. Japanese denim always feels overpriced to me
Could you let us know who they are Magnus? Thanks.
On the price, I know that the margins people are making on those Japanese jeans are not high proportionately, it’s just the case that they are expensive to make and the denim to weave.
But, it depends whether you care about that type of denim or not. As I said, the cheaper 90s Levi’s I’ve got are great for what they are – they just won’t age in the same way as better-made ones, and that’s something I like a lot but others may not care about. Like caring about a better, denser flannel for a pair of trousers
Of course!
Railcar, Freenote, Raleigh Denim, Imogen + Willie, Shockoe Atelier, Glenn’s Denim, Left Field and the ever present 3sixteen are some notable ones. Mister Freedom (although not an American company) makes some very nice denim in the United States as well.
There was a brand called “Roy” (I think it was just a one man operation) that made pretty much the gold standard denim, but sadly he quit a few years back.
Thanks
Hiroshi Kato out of LA. Japanese selvedge sewn stateside. Their website’s explanation of selvedge is interesting for a denim novice.
Yes but they’re really into stretch denim while most PS readers probably aren’t. Kato call certain fabrics “raw selvedge” even though they’re 4% Polyurethane. If you don’t want stretch make sure to look for their “non-stretch selvedge.”
As an owner of the referenced Rubato (blue and black) as well as Blackhorse (raw) jeans I have to advocate for rounding off with Orslow 105 being a great option for a modern jeans with very good washes imo.
Anglo Italian also see me through.
Really interesting and useful article, Simon, thanks. Love the look of the Rubato ones; however, my wife definitely thinks that the two pairs of indigo jeans I own is one more than I need, so can’t see me getting approval on those!
Have been coveting the black Brycelands for a while, but they’ve been out of stock in the UK for almost as long, it seems. Keeping fingers crossed they come back in time for my birthday in a few weeks…!
Cheers Joe. Yeah it is an issue when I recommend something like that often – they fly out and restocks are not quick on that type of product
As a slimmer guy, I’ve always really struggled to find denim that actually fits properly.
The E9 from BHL in a size 25 fit wonderfully, do you think the smaller sizes from Rubato and Bryceland’s might also fit?
I think you might find the fit a bit different, at least on the Bryceland’s, but the Rubato closer
Another great article, thanks Simon. I have the 133 from Brycelands (which has gotten a lot of wear over the years) but my favourite pair currently is from Informale. At the moment they only do dark indigo, but that may change with time. Key differences for me: the Informale has a slightly higher rise, and extra inlay in the seams so you can widen the leg, which I did through the thigh to get a more relaxed fit. Worth readers checking out if either of those points appeal.
Cheers.
Thanks a lot Nick, I wasn’t aware of those. Very useful for readers on that side of the world
I have some older Levi’s 501s that I like and a couple of pairs from BLA. My favourites at the moment are some Hiut Hacks in 14 oz Japanese selvedge. The cut and fit suit me well. I’ve also recently acquired some washed black jeans from Anglo Italian. Again, the cut and fit are good for me,
Thanks RT. Interesting you like both, as the Anglo jean is rather different aesthetic – Italian denim, smoother and quite different to the Japanese ones
It is and I was uncertain initially, but I’ve really warmed to them. I tend to wear them with slightly smarter outfits. I’d probably still prefer something more like the Japanese denim, but I’m quite enjoying them, having got used to them. The cut and fit are a part of what makes me like them too.
i strongly recommend the Hiuts, by the way. Very good quality, several different styles and waist sizes that increase in 1” increments, which makes it easier to get a good fit, I think. They also have a repairs service and take back old jeans, refurbish and resell them. They have a great back story too. If you haven’t come across them, I think they may be worth a look and would appeal to many PS readers. (I have no connection with the company, by the way. I just like the idea of sharing good experiences as we sometimes do on PS).
Thanks RT, yes I’ve known them since they set up, it’s a great operation.
Hi Simon,
In your recent YouTube video about packing for a short trip, you including a navy trouser. Navy trousers have been a blind spot for me due to the old “abandoned suit trousers” adage — though that cannot be said of your pair.
What do you look for in such a pair of trousers? Fabric, pattern, weight, etc. Does that pair happen to belong to a suit?
Thanks
It doesn’t, no. You need trousers with some more texture, like flannels or serge. Have a look at Fox flannel, their worsted flannel, and serge from others.
In general, as long as the trouser material isn’t that shiny or fine, it won’t look like part of a suit.
More on navy trousers as separates here
Lovely article. Is that a yellow hoodie you’re pairing with the Levi’s and tassle loafers? I love how much there is to have with a beautiful pair of Levi’s.
Absolutely!
No it’s a suede popover actually – there’s a link to the article in the vintage list of jeans. It’s this one: here
I love my vintage mid-wash LVC 66501 and Resolute 710. But I will try a pair of higher rise next time, probably Allevol ‘Roku Roku’ 66.
Ah yes, good call, the Allevol ones are nice
Hi Simon, noting you’ve collaborated with Allevol, do you know when they might restock their range of “Roku Roku” 66 jeans? Many of Allevol’s products seem to be out of stock at the moment.
I don’t, sorry Michael, but we share the same factories in Japan so I know they have the same kind of issues with supplies that mean we can only get a restock on T-shirts every seven months at the moment!
Woah! Thanks for the info Simon. Best of luck with the t-shirts!
Thanks Michael. We are pushing to try and get it sooner
You wrote quite positively about the dartford wash from Fullcount some time ago. What I read today sounds like you changed your mind a bit here?
Good question Alexander – I’ve replied to that in comments above – would you mind checking there so I don’t repeat it? Thank you
I am not surprised actually. I guess you might think the same way about your washed western shirt from husbands some time in the future.
I know what you mean, but I think that’s probably less likely, just because all lighter western shirts are like that – it doesn’t feel extreme as there’s nothing subtler
Have you seen the washed black Packard denim shirt by Freenote Cloth. It’s the best looking washed black denim shirt I’ve seen. Although I’ve only seen it in pictures because I haven’t found it in any European retailers’ stores and my size already seems to be out of stock on their website as well. But I’ve been admiring it in the pictures many times.
No I haven’t. It does look nice, I think the only thing I dislike is the shape of the yoke on the back – it might be traditional but it seems to be the opposite of more regular yokes that are always nice because they’re quite physically flattering
Ah yes, I hadn’t really paid attention to the yoke. Can’t decide myself if I like it or don’t, should maybe try it on when I get the chance and see how it looks like and feels when wearing it. What I really like about the shirt is the wash. Looks nicely worn in (not just charcoal grey everywhere), but isn’t overdone like some washes.
Yes, true
Hi Simon,
What’s your take on the cut and fit of White/Ecru Resolute 710?
I know a lot of people who enjoys wearing them and I have tried them twice at a store but couldn’t seem to get the appeal as I always find the rise to be a bit low than what I would normally wear.
I can’t remember exactly, as it’s been a while, but I think I felt the same – that similar issue of a lower rise, gaping a bit on me
Enjoying the honesty around fits. Early on I think a lot of people are most focused on the denim itself, weight, colour etc – but I’ve been through many incredibly respected brands: Full Count, Hiut, Burgus, Orslow, Japan Blue and whilst you can’t doubt the quality, the overall lesson has been that fit is king. To put it bluntly, my legs are just too damn skinny.
The LVC 47′ 501, TCB S40s and the slightly superior Sugar Cane 47 are yes, predictable, absolute belters – and pretty much the classic 40s/50s silhouette. The Edwin Nashville also just quietly ticks along being an absolute triumph (I’ve noticed it’s always been stocked by the stores that know). I have been impressed with the Blackhorse Lane NW8 – now discontinued but has worn in incredibly well. I’d be keen to try the Brycelands along with Dawson Denim in the future.
I was wondering if anyone was going to mention Dawson Denim. I think they fly under the radar a bit due to the small scale of operations but I’ve been really impressed. The fit is great for me, something which isn’t necessarily the case with Japanese brands, and the denim is starting to age beautifully. Shame I’m at the opposite end of the country because I’d love to have a look round their workshop.
Funnily enough, I live two streets away from them. I can vouch for the denim as I have one of their chore jackets to hand (along with some fantastically baggy military chinos). They get to visit and like to have a natter about what they’re working on next.
Rogue Territory’s Silveridge and Stanton models are a good slim fitting jean.
Resolute 710s; the best for all occasions and can be dressed up or down.
So I thought about this a lot after reading the article. I don’t take jeans very seriously. I mean I do, but I gather have a different perspective on this side of the pond. That’s not to say that I don’t understand people who do take them seriously, on the contrary, I respect those people because they keep the denim industry honest.
Jeans for me are an alternative to sweatpants; I wear them to lounge around the house, or to run to the grocer (this said I am wearing a pair at work with a button down and tweed jacket today). I have only had 3 pair of jeans that I loved: a pair of Citizens of Humanity about 15? years ago, a pair of Rag and Bone about 8 years ago, and a cheap pair of Levis currently. They all had different things I loved, the Citizens were thick and soft with a very flattering cut, the Rag and Bones were an excellent selvedge denim made in America that wore beautifully, and the Levis are comfortable, light color, slimmer jean with a decent amount of stretch.
For me the Rag and Bone were the best pair, because the brand had a warm place in America’s heart. A long time after Levis left US manufacturing, two men went to one of their abandoned factory towns and re-hired the lot of master denim craftsman that had been abandoned by the “American” company. They made great quality jeans with selvedge denim that had a tiny (1-2%) stretch. They were a dark blue that faded beautifully based on how you wore them. Sadly, now Rag and Bone has moved manufacturing abroad. That led me to try a pair of Levis to hold me over until I find a place I love again. Surprisingly the Levis I bought filled a gap that I didn’t know I had, and I have come to love them as a super casual beater pair.
I think my next pair will be Gustin, but this recent Levis purchase reminded me that jeans don’t have to be serious or have a deep heritage. Sometimes they are just meant to be something nicer than sweatpants, able to do work in, and get beat up.
Again, I hold no negative judgement to true denim lovers, nor do I believe that this pair of Levis (which represents everything wrong with the denim industry) should alter others’ minds. I just wanted to share how my perspective changed over time.
Hi Brian, I think this is an interesting perspective. It is one that I more or less share. I have two pairs of jeans, both of which are Levi’s lot one that I bought several years ago in the same heavy Japanese denim. They are identical expect I had one made a little longer in the legs because the first pair shrunk more than expected. (I also have white and ecru jeans but I don’t really count them as jeans because they have a totally different use in my wardrobe.) I occasionally wear my jeans with a tweed jacket in the autumn or winter, but the vast majority of use is when I need to wear trousers that I don’t care about getting dirty or treating badly like playing with my kids at the playground or doing work around the house. To my eyes, the wear and tear and fading they get from hard use makes them look even better as they age. I really appreciate my jeans because they stand up well to the abuse, but they are not something I fuss over.
Hi simon have you tried other models of levis like the 569 (wider leg)? I have skinny legs and the 501s are not a good look! Are there wider jeans you have tried that are good?
I haven’t tried many, no. I have tried the 505 in vintage, which is good but I think usually for people that have the opposite problem to you, where they’re too big for a 501. I also really like the 133 from Bryceland’s for a slightly bigger leg, and maybe sometime in the future I’ll get that when I’m interested in a different look.
You will have noticed by the number of comments how well received this article was…same here, very useful and hitting the Zeitgeist. A couple of years ago, I said you’d never see me in the office with jeans. Something which I now do from time to time. Also because I somehow started appreciating the dark denim more, making it easier to pair with other “office-appropriate” clothes…
I have also tried a number of japanese makers (and others). The only ones that I haven’t altered yet is an Orslow 105 size 3. The others almost always needed a slimming of the leg, at least the hem (to about 20/21cm), not so much the thigh.
Do you Simon, or anyone else have any experience with the Ankara fit of Tellason? Doesn’t seem to come up in search.
I don’t, no. Pleased the piece was so useful though Carl
Hi Simon, great article. I know you’ve had the Rubato officers chinos altered – did you do the same with the jeans? I have a pair and really like them. I just sometimes wonder whether the leg is a touch wide.
No, the jeans are a slimmer leg and I definitely wouldn’t go narrower
Would you say there is an age to stop wearing jeans? I think Hugh Grant said 40.
Personally no, I don’t think so. I can understand if an older guy finds them uncomfortable, but I think if you’re in shape (which makes everything easier) then an unfussy, straight-cut jean can still look good. Jeans are just less forgiving in some ways, and as you get older that can be more of a problem. But that means they’re not for some people, not that they’re not for anyone that age.
I highly recommend Viapiana Custom Denim in Toronto, Canada if anyone want to go bespoke. I got a pair made with Nihon Menpu denim and quality is top notch!
if you want light wash I would look into RRL, it’s “over priced” at retail but they do wash very well in general
Thanks Clee. They always had only very slim fits in London, but I think that’s starting to change – there was always much more of a range on West Broadway whenever I went there
Yup, pretty sure both slim and slim narrow are not for you, look for Straight, there is also vintage 5 pocket which is kind outside mainstream wide
ps and maybe low straight, though I feel low straight has gotten slimmer over the years
Hi Simon, is there a reason all these jeans use a button fly? Is the button closer more “authentic” or does it affect the fit somehow? I’m looking for a quality denim, straight fit, mid to high rise, but I can’t seem to find a brand that uses a zipper fly. I’m an older gent and just don’t get on with button flys anymore. Thoughts?
Buttons are more authentic, yes, and I guess have also become part of how the design of jeans is perceived. But my seventies vintage ones have a zip. Problem is, most people want to do something closer to the originals
Levi’s Lot No 1 will do a zip but they’re expensive.
Hi Simon, a quick one for you. I bought a pair of Full Count ecru jeans. They had a slight mark on them from the store. I obviously should have taken them back, but instead I gave them a squirt of stain remover and washed them. Problem is that it made a HUGE white mark on one of the legs. I appreciate I could bleach them to white, but if there any way to return them to ecru?
I also don’t want to slam Full Count, but their customer service could not have been less interested. I’m sure you get a better service then the average bear, but I was quite surprised – at this price point – how unhelpful they were.
Hmm, yes that is a shame.
I don’t think there is a way to get them back to ecru I’m afraid, bleaching might be the only option
Would you care to elaborate on why FULLCOUNT is considered a workwear-oriented brand? And what defines a workwear-oriented brand ? Any other examples ? Thanks
A lot of what they make originates with workwear – denim, chores, flannel shirts etc. There’s other genres too, eg militaria, old sportswear, biker clothing, but the more general category of workwear is often used to separate it from things like tailoring, modern sportswear etc.
Most of the brands you’ll find at places like Clutch or Son of a Stag or Rivet & Hide would be in that category, as would half of what Bryceland’s does.
Thanks for the interesting article Simon
I have at least 16 jeans in my wardrobe, Zimbabwe cotton with true indigo creating deep and captivating hues and patina, couple of selvedge jeans from American Cone Mills The White Oak Plant, 26 ounce Japanese (which requires quite an effort to put it on and off) to mention a few. Most of my jeans comes from:
https://www.weargustin.com/
You can get jeans at a fraction of the price…now since we left EU no duty as well if the total value is less than approx £130
Hey Simon,
I just began my journey searching for a pair of mid-blue vintage levi’s , especially the 501 in the 1966 fit.
I have found a couple online that fit what I am looking for… but I have noticed the thigh measurements for most of them in my size (33) have been about 29~30cm.
Compared to my pairs of denim from Rubato, Brycelands and Drakes usually between 32.5~34cm.
Did you find your pair of vintage Levi’s to usually have slimmer thighs than that of the above mentioned brands?
Sorry for the basic question. First time vintage shopper.
No problem. Yes, they often do. I sometimes find myself getting a size large so the thighs fit, and then I take in the waist
May I ask how much are these vintage 501 from 1966 would cost generally speaking ? How much would a new old stock as compared to a worn in one but in good condition ? Thanks
Rubato jeans are really nice, but beware of the extremely shallow pockets – no way you could fit a smart phone in there! Was the reason I had to return them.
Really confused as why any brand would offer jeans with short and shallow pockets nowadays?
Tried on the Bryceland jeans in London, service was so so and the leg is huge – even on the “slim” models.
Do you really carry a mobile in your front pocket though Charles? That seems so awkward
Can you not just replace the pockets if that’s the only issue?
If not in the front pocket, where do you carry your phone Simon?
I’ve always been a front pocket kind-of-guy, however, I absolutely hate the fading it makes on the jeans…
Isn’t back pocket sub-optimal for when you sit down etc?
Yes, I usually have it in something else – jacket, overshirt, bag etc
I can confirm that the blue on the rubato jeans is beautiful. Here after almost 2 years of moderate wear.
What are the black boots you are wearing with the Rubato jeans? Thanks.
Aldens – they’re not black they’re Color 8 cordovan
Great article Simon. For many years I wore selvedge 1947 Levis. In recent years I have bought Orslow 107 fit white, dark denim, 2 year wash, black, and the green fatigues. All suit my body type.
I’ll admit to being utterly bemused. I’d have thought the aesthetics of jeans is that they’re workwear (though given that they become so uncomfortable when wet, I find them utterly impractical for gardening in my part of the world). They’re usually cut to be unflattering – by design – as they shouldn’t rumple when sitting on your horse (in dry parts of the world). The man in the street thinks Jeremy Clarkson when they see a middle-aged person wearing them.
Horses for courses, I guess. But cords wash well, are usually cut for somebody not on a horse, only have weird associations if you buy them in red, yellow or bottle green, and are thoroughly comfortable even when they’re damp from kneeling in the soil.
I can see that it’s possible to geek out about anything. Maybe about the stitching on a mosquito net or the thread count on a handkerchief! But is there a level of irony that I’m missing to geek out about something that is, at heart, designed to be abused by tough guys riding horses in a hot and dry climate? Maybe if you told a cowboy his jeans were ‘ecru’ he’d have laughed and bought you a whisky – or maybe he’d have broken your nose – are you feeling lucky, Simon?
I think you’re a brave man to dismiss the most popular material on the planet John!
There’s no point getting into a big argument here about denim, but I’ll merely say that most people find them very comfortable, that they can be very flattering (as generations of people and stylists have found) and that the material can be beautiful – in a way I try to elucidate here, and which certainly cord (lovely though it is) is not
When I was growing up (Up North), the most popular carbohydrate in the region was white bread made using the Chorleywood process. It’s still the most popular form of bread in the UK!
Most people find it very tasty. I think, given it’s a carbohydrate, we can safely say it gives consumers a feeling of comfort. Even I agree that the bubble-holes and loose strands have a form of beauty – look at a slice under the microscope if you’re not convinced. (It’ll look even more beautiful if you’re microscope isn’t very good – the birefringence will cause the strands to glitter with the colours of the rainbow.)
Bread made using the Chorleywood process is a technical marvel. A brilliant invention and a practical invention (most wheat grown in the UK doesn’t have the protein content of that grown elsewhere and so can’t be turned into bread as easily).
There are also people who geek out over it. There are websites that compare Hovis to Warburtons to Kingsmill to various supermarket versions. As a nipper, my mum taught me how to choose a ‘good’ loaf by squeezing it.
I don’t feel I’m being very brave to say that today I prefer other forms of bread. They’re not quite so pretty to look at under a microscope, they don’t have the spongey qualities my mum admired, they’re not even so instantly comfortable (they have a lower GI index). In practical terms, you could also point to the fact that most UK white bread lasts longer (the chemical mix has to be different, never mind any additives that improve longevity).
I think this may be a case of allowing one set of instincts (good instincts – for beauty in the object, for technical brilliance, for comfort, for subjects which allow us to geek out) to overwhelm another instinct – for taste (which is harder – who is to say the bread from my local boulangerie is better than Kingsmill – if I ever live Up North again I’ll have to hide my preference for unsqueezable bread as assiduously as my bespoke wardrobe)! I fear that with jeans I believe you’ve gone in the direction of the people who write articles on the history of Hovis and compare Kingsmill’s factories poorly with Warburtons. But those people have a strong point – and much to work with – and I see that you do too!
Hi Simon,
I think we might have similar proportions. I’d recommend vintage 1980s Levis 550 jeans. I am lean but have athletic thighs and butt and a lot of the cool modern jeans don’t fit me, because if I size up so that I can fit my thighs into them, then the waist is too big. I’ve found the 550s from the 1980s to be perfect, and the fabric itself is really nice. The 550s post-1980s really are awful so I’d stay away from them, especially the contemporary ones which are garbage.
Thanks for this article. I’m going to look into the Brycelands version…
Thanks Viggy. I have tried 550s and sometimes found them too baggy, but I’ll see if I can track down an 80s pair. I think my problem is that I do like the style of the 501s, which run closer to the thighs, but it’s a fine thing to get that style to fit my body
Hi Simon,
would you say that 1990 Levis jeans are qualitatively different from current models (apart from the wash)?
I almost exclusively wear OrSlow 105, but a little mix wouldn’t hurt. Unfortunately, I don’t have the time to search for vintage.
They’re qualitatively different from modern Levi’s, yes. Is that what you meant?
They’re not better than Japanese denim today, like Orslow.
I’m not exactly thrilled with the current Levi’s models, which is why I asked about the denim quality of models from the 90s. Maybe I will go out and look for one. Thank you.
Great article and photos. I liked seeing how you styled the different color denims
Cheers Ira, nice to hear
Hi Simon, very enjoyable article as usual. Of these brands you mention here – which would you say have the widest thigh cut and highest rise?
thank you,
Joseph
Bryceland’s probably, their 133. Though if you include all Blackhorse Lane models then they have ones with a higher rise
Hey Simon, I presume you have had waists taken in jeans from time to time. Do you have a preferred method and if so which one? For example, back centre seam or through the sides. I’ve had the latter method and my front pockets have become very tight and so I’m not sure if it’s related to the waist reduction method used or just a trade off for a more fitted waist.
I do the back centre seam. I haven’t tried anything else, but it works well for me as the hollow back area is where I need the help with the fit usually
Hi Simon,
do you have a recommendation for the optimal length of jeans when they are not untucked? I am aware that there is no one length that fits all types of shoes, but perhaps a guide as to what length you have your jeans adjusted to?
Best regards
Roman
Sure Roman, I can look into that. In general though it’s very much a style choice, creating different looks rather than being right or wrong.
I tend to prefer something similar to my cuffed trousers – just touching the shoe
Hey Simon. Given your preference for Japanese denim, have you tried the Real McCoys and can you give a view on their jeans?
I have, though not for a while. From what I remember, I think the styles didn’t work for me, in that they were either quite slim and low (as discussed above from other brands) or much wider. The quality was top-notch though, as you’d expect
Hi Simon, quick question just to be clear. You have the unsanforized 133 in a sz 32, which works fine once washed, right? I own the Rubato in the sz 32 as well. Fits fine but couldn’t be tighter. How would you compare both, waist-wise? Thanks and apologies for the selfish question.
No problem. I have the 933 and the 133S, not the 133. The 133S shrinks a little less, being left-hand twill. I’m not sure what I’d be in the 133, but I’d assume a 32, like the 933. That fit would be the same as my Rubato, maybe a tiny bit tighter
I have to say I’ve come back to wearing jeans, largely due to your musings on the fit and fading. My heyday wearing them was in the seventies. Always Levi’s 501 and the occasional trucker jacket. All faded beautifully. No fussing around just wash and go. Wear until threadbare. Repeat.
Are Full Count jeans, then, overall slimmer than your above mentioned, brands?
There’s a range, Dan, but the ones I mentioned are wider rather than slimmer. Let me know if something was unclear in there
Hi simon have you tried the new rubato trouser in hbt? There are very few pics of people wearing them and im unsure how its supposed to fit. Is it like a denin or a military trouser but slim?
I haven’t, sorry Shem. They’re here in London this week so hopefully I’ll have a chance then
Ever got a chance to try them on?
I’m hesitating on them as the thigh measurements scares me a little. Seems very thight
Hey Mikkel,
I did actually, and I know own the blue ones. I think the leg line is really nice, certainly not tight
Sounds great! In a size 32 like your jeans?
I went for 33. Not because they fit different but because I wanted a slightly looser fit than the jeans
Thank you!
Hey Simon, thanks for the article.
I’m not sure if this has been covered before but I’m curious how you decide on bespoke vs ready to wear. For example, I notice that you have bespoke chinos but also various ready to wear.
It seems like given your connections you could easily furnish your wardrobe solely from bespoke or MTM, but you keep coming back to certain ready to wear brands. I imagine the answer is multi-faceted, but I’d be interested in knowing how all the factors play together.
maybe a blog idea?
Yes, I can see that would be a nice topic. The answer is largely design – cut and make but also materials. Those bespoke chinos are great, for example, but the reason we did them was because there is so little with that kind of fit RTW, but RTW has a much better selection of materials
Hi Simon,
I have acquired Jeans from different brands for a number of years but finally came to the conclusion that all you need is a few jeans with a good fit and are comfortable to wear. In my opinion the jeans by Stefano Ricci are truly the best that I have ever tried and owned. They tend to be on the pricier side but they come in a number of different fits and the material and craftsmanship is simply the best.
Thanks Ghaz, and I think you’re right, though we’ll have to agree to disagree on Stefano Ricci – he’s wildly overpriced and the smooth Italian denims without the character of any of the jeans we’re talking about here
For the rubato jeans, it comes standard inseam which is way too long for me. But it says I should wash the jeans before getting it tailored. The thing is people recommends wearing it for awhile before washing. Should I suck it up and just wear it with the bottom folded for awhile before washing or shoulder I Just wash it now so it can be tailored. Also it says wash in 40 degree celsius which is equivalent of warm water. Should I put the washer warm/hot setting or use cool water for these jeans?
The reason to wear them for a while before washing is to get more fades – in the wrinkles etc. If you care about that, then fold them up for a while, yes. If you don’t, then don’t.
If they say 40 then I’m sure it’s fine, but if you’re concerned at all then stick with cool water
Simon,
It is unfortunate that I don’t have easy access to good vintage jeans near me.
Have you ever tried the 1102 fade from fullcount. If you had to pick between that or Orslow’s two year fade – which would you prefer?
I’d probably pick the Full Count, presuming fit wasn’t part of the equation as that’s more personal
Hi Simon, thank you for this very informative article as always. I managed to visit the Rubato pop-up last month and was a bit unsure whether to go for a 33 or 34. I have a pair of Real McCoy’s in 33 and regret not sizing up, and your comment about them feeling tight at first gave me pause for thought. I know that denim stretches and wears in over time, but could you please give some idea of how tight was reasonable from when you first got them to how they wear now?
Not a big difference, probably less than an inch. I’d say it’s a reason to go down a size if you’re between sizes, but not to size down from your regular size
Thank you Simon. Are there any additional photos of you in the Rubato’s for additional context on fit? It’s hard to tell from the angle sorry.
No, sorry Alexander
Hello ! Thank your for your post ! I love your outfits.
If you were to wear a pair of jeans with the following other things, which pair would you wear? These other items seems to be a bit more interchangeable while keeping the same level of formality, but jeans tend to be a one size fits all?
Navy blazer – a tough one to work, depends a lot on the blazer (material, make, style) but I’d wear the mid-blue vintage jeans and the black Levi’s most probably
White oxford – any of them, except the ecru and potentially the black (could be a little stark unless there was something else there to help out)
Double monks – not really my style so I wouldn’t with any of them. But if I was going to, it would have to be suede and it would be the smarter jeans, like the indigo Brycelands. Penny loafers on the other hand would potentially go with everything
Hi Simon,
Have you any experience with Blackhorse Lane’s black jeans?
They use a denim that has a ‘stay black’ quality so will remain darker after x number of washes. I’m just deliberating over a pair of theirs or the Bryceland’s, once they’re back in stock, as I’d prefer they remain closer to black for as long as is possible.
Cheers
I haven’t, but that’s because I didn’t want mine to stay black so they weren’t for me. I’m sure they’re good, and they would fit your needs better perhaps
Thanks!
You might want to want to check Iron Heart’s non-fade black jeans, the 888 cut (which is a mid high-rise, relaxed+tapered).
Having tried some of the RTW and MTM/bespoke options discussed on this blog, as well as some workwear and tailoring-oriented makers, one of the differences I noticed is how the rise/crotch fits.
I learned from a bespoke trouser maker that the crotch of trousers should sit higher up against either the left or right thigh, rather than in the middle. This way the leg line appears longer (and the waist higher), otherwise the crotch seam would need to be lower for comfort and render the leg line shorter.
Jeans which fit similarly appear more flattering, at least for me. It’s something I haven’t really paid attention to until having tried several makers and MTM/bespoke commissions. Perhaps this is something which readers may find useful.
Morning Simon, can I ask you what you think of this black jeans from The Real Mccoy’s?
I plan to wear them with tweed jackets, OCBD shirts and loafers. Thanks.
https://therealmccoys.com/collections/bottoms/products/joe-mccoy-lot-905-black-denim_charcoal
It looks nice Eugene. Never tried them myself but I’m sure the quality is good
Good Afternoon,
For Simon or anyone in the section. I continually have issues with crotch blowout in jeans. Even if I am proactive in repairs while they are thinning they just seem to get worse. This is especially frustrating in raw denim as it seems to happen just as I’ve earned the whiskers and fading.
I’ve had all sorts of brands and it is a repetitive issue. I know Simon has written about Jean care before but I can’t seem to solve the problem and wondered if anyone has had similar experiences. Do I need to size up for my thunder thighs or am I forced to go with thicker denim?
I would suspect more room is the answer Caleb, or not wearing them so long from raw, as the material is more abrasive then.
Thicker denim will likely not be the answer – I had a heavy pair once and they faded and wore down faster if anything, because there was so much robust rubbing going on!
You should have a look at Hebtroco jeans. Made in the UK and designed to last. Excellent jeans.
Hebtroco aren’t a manufacturer, their jeans are made for them in the Black Horse Lane Ateliers factory.
I’ve searched the comments & article, & didn’t quite find this, so figured I’d ask. I’ve been trying to get a sense of how to pair my jeans, and figured it would help to have a sense of smartness scale. In jeans I presume it comes from the following, is this correct?
Fit – fitted / tailored & slim (not extreme) is probably most smart, where a more open leg, looser fit, or skinny jeans (not my thing but wanted to be comprehensive here) are less smart. Higher rise is smarter than lower.
Material & details – the more uniform the smarter. Any details that pop like contrast stitching or unconventional rivets are less smart.
Color – dark (black & indigo) & light (ecru) are smarter than anything in the middle.
Condition – any fades, cuts, tears, holes, etc. make it less smart.
Is this right? Am I missing anything?
And your advice would be to stay within the region that makes jeans, jeans. Meaning you wouldn’t try to make extra smart jeans with navy stitching, cause then what’s the point of having jeans.
Yes exactly Doug, I’d agree with all that. Also if you like the look, wearing without a turn-up is smarter
Thanks a lot!
Question on work-wear type denim vs the above brands (say like Rubato which is made in Japan). Do you find the feel of the fabric different from those “work-wear” type brands? Do they feel less rigid in any way? I made a mistake of buying Studio D’Artisan SD-108 model which required me to go to waist size 34 so other measurements fit, so looking for a better fitting pair now… (I do too have wider hips and seemingly very similar built to you). I saw at Rivet & Hide Iron Hearts – IH-888-142 Relaxed Taper model. That seems to have very similar parameters to Brycelands and Rubato you described. Do you think those would be totally different in terms of styling with tailoring? Are there some details in your view that set apart the work-wear type brands from those you listed above?
Compared to most products, I think the jeans between these types of brands are very similar. It’s really only when the workwear brands are doing extremes – really heavy ones – or maybe unusual washes – that they are different.
Very clear, thank you
Lately I’ve got interesting question… Would every denim become light blue given enough time? For example I’m looking and bryclelands sawtooth. Shirt you would wash way way more than jeans, but still I haven’t seen it faded more than to kinda medium darkish blue?
Eventually, yes, but it would take a very long time with some, and you’d always have areas probably that would remain dark blue. That’s the key way you can tell an industrially washed jean usually – there are no dark areas still
Interesting you took the same size in both the Rubato and Brycelands. I have 32 in the Rubato and have been looking at the 933 black, but according to Brycelands measurements (washed) the closest to those would be a 33. Are your 32s noticeably smaller than the Rubatos in the same size? The extra space in the hip/thigh is appealing.
No, but I could easily wear the 33 in the Rubato. It might actually be a slightly better fit
Have you noticed really shallow pockets on rubato denim? I have 5 pairs of jeans, thinking about rubato ecru but pockets was shallower than every other pair I have…
Hi Simon,
How have you been enjoying the Bryceland’s 133s compared to say the Rubato Lot 1?
I apologize if you’ve answered this, but how does the LHT translate to denim? You’ve written a lot about LHT in the context of chinos. Does the aging and fading differ? Durability? Or is it just the texture ie a bit softer?
I have a pair of the 933 and they’re my favorite jean in terms of fit, hence I’m looking at the 133s but just don’t know enough about LHT denim.
Thanks as always
I haven’t noticed that much of a difference with the LHT denim, but I’ve only washed mine once and not worn them that intensely. Apparently it’s smoother in the end result and has less of the fluffy texture, but from what I’ve seen it’s a relatively minor difference so I wouldn’t have any concerns buying those if you like the fit
Thanks Simon
One other question Simon, sorry
I understand you took a 32 in the 933 and then a 31 in the 133s. Do you find there is a major difference in the hip, thigh, and leg between the two? Or overall not so noticeable.
I take a 38 in the 933 and they are absolutely perfect in the hip, thigh, and leg, though a hair loose in the waist. Which is fine, I don’t mind a belt.
I am sort of between staying TTS at 38 and dealing with the gaping waist, or sizing down a bit to the 36 but then likely having a thigh that is a good bit slimmer.
Champagne problems I know, and personal at that, but your input would be valuable to me nonetheless. Plus there’s always the 133 but the leg does seem quite full.
Thanks again!
When you have that choice, I’d always go bigger in the waist but have the room you want elsewhere. Belt can cinch a bit, and you can take them in at some point if you want to.
The 133 is worth trying at some point, I do think it looks good on bigger guys, which it sounds like you are
Thank you Simon, as always
Any thoughts on grey as a color for denim trousers? with a wash equal to a mid-blue pair, just in grey instead. Livid, a brand featured here once, has a pair with a slight brown tint, which I am considering
I don’t think they’re grey myself. Faded black can be stylish, but grey is harder
Ah, I’m sorry, I wasn’t thinking about the Bryceland’s pair in this article, but rather grey/heavily washed black for jeans in general.
Considering these, which are very washed black (grey to my eyes): https://www.lividjeans.com/products/barnes-japan-gravel
Ah I see, yes I’d refer to those as a faded black, as that’s what the look is aiming for
Hi Simon,
Naked and Famous will be releasing their new 40oz denim soon.
Would you be willing to take one for the team and try them for scientific purposes?
Probably not Daniel! I’ve tried heavy denim before that was a lot lighter than that and didn’t like it (from Blackhorse Lane). It was uncomfortable, stayed wet for longer, and actually wore through as fast if not faster than regular denim, as there was so much rough material rubbing against itself
Hello Simon,
Not sure if you have experience with the following, but do you happen to have purchased trousers from Bryceland’s (denim let’s say if specifics are helpful), and had a sense of how much yours have shrunk over time, vs the ‘prewashed’ option they tend to offer?
It’s a bit of an abstract question – not sure how you could answer with anything definite, but I get the impression they over-shoot the dimensions to factor in shrinkage, i.e. lots of their trousers look to measure big until washed, shrinking down to a more standard sizing. But their pre-wash process appears to be washing at 40C then tumble-drying, which is hotter/more aggressive than I wash anything, so I’ve just sort of wondered if I should size based on their pre-washed measurements, or consider that things will be a bit bigger if I wash with my usual cold wash/hang dry approach.
I hope that makes sense, and apologies if this is way into the weeds, but thought I’d ask in case you’ve had any thoughts about this over time buying/trying their trousers etc.
Thanks for any help, and best wishes.
Hey Isaac,
I’m afraid I don’t have specifics to offer, but I think they use that process to take out all the potential shrinkage over time, rather than just from one rinse wash. Not so good for fades, but it should be more reliable for sizing I think. Check what they say, but I would imagine the washed ones are the ones to size off
Thanks Simon,
There might be something to their 40C wash/tumble dry approach anyway I suppose, as nothing I’d so subsequently would be likely to shrink them further.
I’m hoping to try some of their trousers this summer, so I’ll probably choose based on the washed measurements as you say, and see how I get on.
Thanks for the reply, and all the best.
What’s that herringbone cloth of the jacket you’re wearing, in the photo above the “other vintage” section? With you in the pink shirt
It’s made to measure from J Mueser, covered in full here
Hi Simon,
For black jeans do you prefer silver buttons and rivets like the 933 seem to have, or copper ones like the Rubato lot 1, and why?
Thanks
Probably silver, but it’s not a big deal either way to be honest, I like both
Would the silver rivets in black jeans go well with brass buckle belts?
Yes, I don’t think it’s a big thing from that point of view, it’s too subtle
What Bryceland‘s jeans are you wearing in your latest IG walkie talkie if I I may ask? Thanks
The 133S
Hi Simon,
Are the black 933 selvedge denim? On the Bryceland’s website the selvedge stripe, if present, seems very subtle and narrow.
And would you hem them with a little break to be able to turn them up once, or would it be better to hem without any break and wear without folding the hem at all, considering the style and color?
Thanks
Yes they are, but just because it’s selvedge, it doesn’t necessarily mean there’s a stripe. They don’t have to cut at that edge
I like them without folding myself, but it is a style thing. I do it most of the time with blue jeans, not with black. There is a post about that here
Hi Simon,
Would you say that taking the bryceland 133s in 31 was a better choice then a size 32 in the end?
I wear 54 in tailoring and 36 in the rubato jeans and have the bryceland 933 in 36 as well. Not sure about the 133s in 36 I just received, although I have only washed them once though so it might shrink some more.
Cheers and sunny greeting from Tuscany!
Hey Edwin,
Yes I think so, it’s worked out well for me.
Hmmm, i’ll try and wear the 36, rinsed them again and they shrunk some more. They fit like the rubato ones for me with just a slightly larger hip and tapering through the legs (perfect for loafers).
The 933 feel tighter after a wash for me but stretch out after.
Cheers for the comment!
No worries. Do wear them for a full day before assessing what they’re like after washing, as denim is made to shrink a little and then go out again with wear, to where it’s needed
My Bryceland jeans were a bit looser than I expected after my the first wash, but then after I washed them with a 60C cycle, the shrank a tiny bit more and the waist is now perfect.
Hi simon what do you think about beige/khaki jeans? I saw a pair by levis in a loose fit thst works for me. I tried it.on but i cant decide if it its something i would wear alot of although i really like khaki.
I think generally they’re not that useful, a bit too unusual
Completely agree! By mistake during winter I picked up light beige Lewis 501. I always found them not here not there. Almost dark enough to look like a Chino, almost light enough to pass for a cream but always not quite there. Since I’m not paying 350£ for rubato, I just picked up full count ecru pair. For 270£. Lewis will be going back on eBay
Hi Simon, I was wondering how you’ve been finding the Bryceland’s 133S and if you’ve broken them in much more since publishing this piece? Have they proved to be an indigo equivalent of the black 933 (ie, excellent)? I’m in the market for a new pair of raw indigo jeans; having had BHL before I’m thinking Bryceland’s or Rubato this time. And while I love everything the Rubato guys do, Bryceland’s being a touch cheaper and available here in London to try on is a factor!
I’ve found them really good, though I probably haven’t worn them enough to be able to tell the difference between the left-hand twill and a regular right-hand. I haven’t seen much difference so far. Would certainly recommend them though
Did you ever try the FullCount 1101 or 1103, Simon? They seem a good deal slimmer than the 1105, perhaps closer to the Rubato fit?
The 1101 is still wider from what I recall, but no I haven’t tried the 1103
Thanks Simon
Hey! A heads up! In Stratford tx max has some pairs of selvedge Lewis 501. 1966, 150y edition, also the ones with a cinch back. made In Japan and china. 36, 38 and I could swear I saw a couple of 32 or something. All shrink to fit selvedge.
And a question.
I picked up a pair with cinch back. And also recently picked up alfull count type 1 with a cinch back. Weirdly both came without a holes? I mean like a belt, buckle, pin and all, but no holes. Am I supposed to punch the holes myself or how does it work?
Yes, you punch the holes yourself with the prongs, at the size you want
Thank you! Interesting. Also, Jesus they SHRINK! i think about 2 sizes! If I’ll see a size bigger I’ll definetely exchange a pair I have still unwashed to a size 40. i hope that stress points will stretch back to raw measurements! This will be annoying to deal with after every wash! But hey! Finally denim I can afford not to be precious about! 🙂 80£ and 50£.
Odd question Simon, but between the rubato and Bryceland’s (933 or 133s) which would you say is “truer” or more similar to vintage Levi’s, say from the 60s?
I’m not sure I’m enough of an expert to say on that point Roger. My own 60s Levi’s are slimmer and lower rise than both, so that’s not that helpful
Thank you
Hi Simon, is there a photo of your BHL ecru denim in any of your articles? I searched the “Black Horse Lane” tag on your website but I didn’t see them. Curious about how the shade
No I don’t think there is, sorry Magnus
The Brycelands jeans in black are great–I just got a pair. I really like the charcoal shade that yours have faded to. About how long/how many washes did it take to get that coloring? Thanks, as always.
No worries. I think three washes
I’m looking to pick up a pair of jeans that work well with a tailored jacket. Between Bryceland’s and Levi’s black jeans, which do you usually wear more with tailoring — and why?
I wear the Levi’s because they have a more consistent fade and keep the straight shape more – in some ways, better quality jeans are harder to wear with tailoring in these ways
Interesting. Speaking of consistent fading in black jeans, do you happen to know why some vintage Levi’s have those vertical fading lines? Does that make them harder to wear with tailoring?
I think it’s often because they weren’t washed particularly carefully – you often get them when working with a raw jean, when you wash it and don’t do it inside out or don’t shake it out flat when it comes out. Or sometimes use too high a spin.
A little harder perhaps, yes, if it’s very noticeable
Also let me add here that it’s also better to briefly soak the jeans before putting them into the washing machine, and then preferably wash them with no spin (or minimal spin). When they’re already wet, they will apparently move more freely inside the washing machine and are less likely to develop folding stripes during the wash. I got this advice from Iron Heart’s Giles, and following it I have managed to avoid the vertical (or any random) lines. I just put already wet jeans into the washing machine and wash them without spinning in 40 C and then hang them to dry (if indoors, I put a bucket under them as they’re gonna be dripping some water).
What’s wrong with tapered leg jeans with tailoring?!
It kind of depends what you mean by tapered (and what I mean) – pretty much all jeans will have some taper from the knee, but as that taper gets bigger, the less visually straight they look and so more divorced from a smarter trouser cut. As jeans get particularly slim and tapered, in my view they don’t work with tailoring very well
Hey Simon, I just got a pair of Bryceland’s black jeans. The only issue with the fit for me is that there’s some excess fabric bunching or wrinkling around the thigh area compared to my Rubato jeans. Is that something you’ve noticed as well, or is it just me?
I haven’t, but my thighs are relatively large. I do think the Brycelands fit is a little bigger in that area, but it works well on me, perhaps less so on you
Have you washed the Bryceland’s jeans yet? I have both Rubato (indigo) and Bryceland’s jeans (black). I initially had the same experience with both of them, and it somehow looked awkward because the thigh area looked like it had excess fabric weirdly wrinkling and folding. I felt I looked like a seriously ill person old person whose clothes are now too loose due to weight loss. However, after I washed them 1-2 times, they look much better. I think it’s due to both some further shrinking and softening of the denim (so even the “excess” fabric drapes better).
How would you compare the cut between Anthology jeans and Bryceland’s 133S?
The Anthology are very different, wide and straight
Really? I never thought Anthology would do wide jeans based on their other products. I might go for 133S from Bryceland’s then. How long did you wait until you washed the jeans from the raw state?
Yes I know, it’s an unusual one for them.
I got them one wash actually. I didn’t particularly want them to get the normal fades and whiskering etc
Simon, have you tried any of the Iron Heart offerings, namely the 888 or 1955? If so, how did the fit work for you? I similarly have large thighs for my waist, enjoy the Rubato cut, but don’t love too strong a taper (so as to avoid looking like an upside down bowling pin).
Do you feel their aesthetic, at least in the 14oz version if not the 21oz, could be compatible with tailoring or smart knitwear?
I’m afraid I don’t have much experience with Iron Heart ones Roger. I wouldn’t go super heavy, and I wouldn’t want that slim, but I haven’t tried either of those models in person
Thanks for the input
I hope you don’t mind me chiming in, I have some experience with many Iron Heart jeans. In general the 888 is my favorite cut, also have one pair of the 634. They fit me very well, not that far from Bryceland’s, but a bit more tapered. Also with relatively high rise. 1955 is more vintage and less tapered but I don’t have experience with them (I’ve never tried them but been eyeing them).
However, I’ve noticed that the 888s look rather different on different body types. On some people they look very slim, while on some people they look nicely roomy around the thighs and taper below the knee. The look depends on the size of your thighs and probably also on the torso. In my case they look rather similar to the Rubato jeans cut-wise, a bit slimmer.
Okay now we get to my recommendation, in case you’re interested in them. If you’re anywhere between sizes and want to have them roomier, opt for the bigger size and ask them to send the one with the smallest waist measurement. They do that happily, measuring the ones they have and giving you the precise waist size (there is always be some variation within the same tag size). My example: my waist is around around 36″. Usually it would mean getting one with a 35″ waist as it’ll stretch about an inch. But instead of getting the tag size 35 (a rare size but they have them), I asked for a 36 with the smallest waist measurement and they found one with 35.4″-ish waist. The waist is perfect after a few wears and the jeans are also roomier than the tag size 35 would’ve been. Of course, if I had wanted to go for a slimmer look, I would’ve asked a 35 from the bigger end. I would’ve ended up with the same waist but slimmer style. I have learned this after ending up with a few pairs I didn’t like that much.
Denim-wise: the 21oz is simply great. It’s the only heavy weight denim I have ever really liked. It is soft and very breathable and comfortable. I’ve tried 25oz and 19oz as well, but didn’t like them that much. My second favorite is the 14oz you mentioned. However, they’re much tighter weave and not as breathable as the 21oz. The 21oz are the most comfortable of IH denims (excluding their slubby denim which is a very different type of denim, but also worth looking into).
I don’t tend to wear IH denim with tailoring except sometimes with heavier tweed and corduroy jackets. Somehow my Rubato jeans feel more appropriate with blazers, but that might be psychological and they would probably look quite okay with the 888s. I do wear my IH with heavier rubato knitwear, not only workwear.
This is all my subjective experience, of course, but I do recommend considering that sizing hack if you’re considering IH jeans. Another good thing with them is excellent customer support and lifelong repairs.
if you have big thighs, small waist and don’t love a big taper, 888 might not be for you. “For me” it ended up a skinny fit over calves, decent above calves and touch big waist. So I’m waiting for 25oz 634 cut to come back. Also Oni 622 was similar story for me. My size too slim, size up below knee is ok-ish, above knee too big.
But than again everyone’s definition of big and small is different so try it yourself.
Helpful, thank you both!
Any experience with the J Mueser denim, Simon?
No, not yet James
I recently bought a pair of BHL NW1 jeans in 14 oz Japanese wash. I think it is probably a very good product but my experience was a good reminder of why I almost never buy clothes online.
My other pair of jeans is a pair of Levi’s Lot1’s made from a very heavy (I think 18 oz) denim. I love them but they are too hot to wear on anytime it is warmer than 18-20 degrees.
After researching sizing online and comparing the size charts to other trousers and jeans I have, I went for a a size 34. This isn’t a surprise as it is my normal waist size. Much to my surprise, the BHL jeans are at least two sizes too large before any stretching.
I was also surprised at the denim, which was quite a very tight woven twill for jeans. I found it rather boring as it doesn’t seem like it will show a lot of difference between white and blue in the weave as it is washed. I like this but it is a very personal choice.
One could say that I could ship them back and get a new pair, but given the jeans were shipped to Switzerland I paid CHF 50 in shipping plus Swiss VAT which isn’t reimbursable. I would pay the same on the new pair.
I would like to try BHL jeans again in the future but I will do it once I go to London and can see and try them on in person. In the meantime the experience was a good reminder of why I stopped buying clothes online.
Hi simon. Two questions:
1) Assuming one already has an indigo and mid blue denim, how useful is a pair of faded black ones? In my minds eye, I think a faded black denim, a knit ecru tee up top can look pretty good with a soft navy or dark brown blazer up top?
2) I find sneakers a bit of a tricky thing to pair with more classic outfits. I have a vans low sneaker (black on the top with white at the heel) in your moonstar type design and i think that style works best with more tailored outfits (tee-shirt/denim/sportcoat) but perhaps more of a summer thing as an overcoat or barbour on the top can make it look smallish. I recently went to Japan and saw everyone wearing new balance – i tried an all black pair, loved the comfort and bought it quite quickly but now find it hard to pair with other stuff i already own! Any plans to have some guide on sneakers and outfits with different variety of them?
1) Yes, I agree. Faded black like that is great, especially with navy on top (which we all have a lot of)
2) We have covered this in the past Shem, and my advice wouldn’t really change – something chunky like New Balance is always going to be harder to wear with most of the tailoring we talk about, they’re just less elegant
There were three parts to that series on trainers by the way
I’ve bought Bryceland 133s jeans and washed them once at 40 degrees. I’m now thinking about hemming the length, but from your experience of wearing them, is there any further shrinkage in length over time? Also, I sometimes roll them up by about an inch—would you suggest hemming them to suit the rolled-up length?
You might get a little bit with the second wash, but not much. Did you buy them raw, or rinsed?
Where you hem them to is kind of up to you. You can’t both both rolled up and not rolled up lengths, so unless you like the rolled up a little shorter anyway, I’d pick one or the other and go off the length you like on that
Hey Simon, do you know if the black rubato denim has a white weft or if it is
a double black?
I don’t know I’m afraid, you’d have to check with them
Your different jeans posts are so helpful, Simon. Could you please provide some guidance on how we should think about the particular weight of jeans? Would it make sense to have separate jeans for the summer and the winter? What would make for a lighter and heavier pair? Thank you!
No worries Winston.
To be honest I wouldn’t have a pair for each, it’s too many and jeans are never going to be that warm or that cool. You’re better off focusing on the other things you’re wearing, such as no socks/long wool socks for example.
Thank you so much! And do you have a preference for what is a good year-round weight or range?
Something around 11-13oz for me.
I hope you don’t mind me chiming in, but I have quite lot of experience of different denim weights.
To some extent the weight matters, but it’s not always the decisive factor. The tightness of the weave is often even bigger a factor. For example Iron Heart’s 21oz and especially the 16oz slubby denim are very breathable compared to 14oz, 19oz or 25oz which are denser weave. I can wear the 21oz denim (which is in my view their best fabric) in the summer, except when it gets really hot. By contrast, the 14oz, albeit lighter, is not as breathable and much less comfortable during the warmer months. The 16oz slubby denim would be the best for summer, if you really want to buy separate jeans for the hot season. I don’t have them myself and they’re a bit unusual but very nice.
There are similar differences in other brands as well, denims are weaved differently and it’s not all about the weight. The subreddit r/rawdenim is a good source of information about various denims and their characteristics.
Hi Simon,
Have you tried the LR01 or LR02 from Super Stitch?
Thank you,
Rajan
Only briefly in Paris a few years ago. I can’t remember enough to report back on I’m afraid
Hi Simon, would be interested to hear your thoughts on the latest jeans from Rubato and Anglo Italian. They both look great and are joining the trend of higher rise and fuller leg. Rubato Lot 2 now look a lot more similar to the Brycelands style and AI now use Japanese denim and have a more flattering cut in my opinion. Have you had a chance to try AI MK2 or had an early share of Rubato lot2?
I haven’t yet, no, but it’s great to see from AI and I’ll certainly try and then cover both when I can
Would also love a review of the AI denim when you get around to it
Noted, thanks Lukas
Did you have a chance to try Rubato’s Lot 2 jeans? They seem to have a higher rise and a wider opening than their Lot 1 version, which I prefer, but the only thing holding me back is the rivet on the front zipper of the jeans. I’m curious if this is something you’ve come across before.
Hey Henry,
I have, and the fit is better on me but I do know what you mean about the rivet. I believe it’s a historic reference, as early Levi’s had a rivet there which was later removed (apparently because workers around a camp fire would find it got too hot!). But it does stick out, particularly on the black and white
Thanks for your insight. Would you say the rivets might become a feature that makes it less likely to be worn often?
I think that’s very personal Henry, it depends on whether it bothers you or not
Any thoughts on their French pocket deck pants in denim? They seem to be offering quite an unusual range this season
No, I haven’t seen those, but they do look interesting
Hello Simon, curious to hear your thoughts on how the Lot. 2 compares to the Bryceland’s 133S. Which would you recommend as the more versatile option for dressing up, e.g., with a sport coat?
The Lot 2 is rather higher – I’m trying them out but perhaps a little too high for me. The 133S is probably more versatile
Thank you. Apart from the waist size, which of them would be better with a sport coat (cut, quality of the denim, colour, buttons etc.)?
No real difference in quality or colour, and not a big one in buttons. I’d say it’s more about leg width and then it’s mostly about what goes with the silhouette of the jacket you wear, but both can work nicely
Hi Simon, one last question on the Rubato Lot 2 – how would you compare this with the original Brycelands 133?
I already have a pair of indigo Brycelands 133S, and if I was looking for another pair of indigo jeans with a fuller leg – which one would you prefer?
Thanks,
Travis
Personally, I prefer the Brycelands 133, and if the fit of the 133S works well for you then I’d go with the 133. The latter is a wider leg but the overall shape is similar – eg slightly wider in the thigh, which works well on me
The fit of the 133S does work very well for me, so I will opt for the 133 as my wider fit jeans. Thanks Simon, much appreciated!
No worries, happy to help Travis
Hello, do you also think indigo is not as versatile as pale blue jeans? Any tips on colours that go well with indigo would be appreciated.
No, I think dark indigo is just as versatile. It’s not as good with stronger colours as mid-blue, but is great with grey, black, cream, olive, dark brown, charcoal, pink and purple
hi Simon, have you tried the new rubato lot 2 jeans? What is your impression? Thanks, Andrew
Simon, I always like the fit of the jeans you wear. My height is similar to yours, and I think my waist size is about one size smaller. If the front rise is 29 cm and the leg opening is 19 cm, would the fit be quite similar?
The leg might be a tiny bit narrower, but otherwise yes. You can tell from the pictures of me in these jeans and then their measurements though right?
What are the openings for most of your jeans? Is 19-19.5cm considered narrow and out of trend in classic menswear? Apologise if this question is a bit weird, obviously I don’t have much knowledge here.
No problem Mike. It’s always relative to your height and shoe size, but yes for average height that is a little narrow these days. I’d do mostly 20-21, and the trend is wider still
Appreciate your prompt response! One more question, if you don’t mind — do you tend to prefer the same leg openings and rise for chinos as well?
I recently tried both high-rise and wider-opening jeans and chinos, with measurements above 29 cm for the rise and wider than 19 cm for the leg opening. While the chinos looked pretty elegant, the jeans gave off a bit of a James Dean vibe, if you know what I mean. Curious to hear your thoughts.
I know what you mean, and yes sometimes I could go a little wider on chinos
Hi Simon,
Building further on the discussion on leg opening. Could you comment a bit on the optical lengthening impact of different leg widhts? I am at the shorter side (5ft 8,5 inch). I see the trend from 18-19cm some years ago towards 20cm+ now. Do you have some advice on how to find the sweet spot on leg opening in function of body height/morphology to achieve the best silhouette?
Hey Jules,
Good question. I don’t think there’s a good formula to use, because part of it is a question of personal style. You’ll find it more satisfying and useful in the long term if you sense it by eye.
However, bear in mind that is not about absolute numbers, but about proportions. So being shorter you will want a narrower hem to be in proportion to your shoe, and a little to be in proportion to your height. I think consider that and try pinning the leg a little to get a sense of what a narrow width would look like as well. I think you’re likely to want 19.5 to 20, something like that
These are my levis 501 black jeans which has faded and now become light to medium grey. I actually dont know when is it best time to retire black jeans so if you can advice do you think it still looks nice with my navy jacket and navy and brown shirts or does the color look faded and worn out?
No I think they still look fine Ayush, just try them with more neutral things – cream, black, really dark brown. That shirt is perhaps a little too strong navy for them