Ciro Zizolfi bespoke tweed jacket: Review
Now and again, a bespoke commission is almost seamless.
At every fitting, you like the look of the jacket and almost nothing seems to be needed on the fit.
Just as importantly, the tailor delivers what they say they will: the jacket is always ready for the next stage; the details you discussed last time have all been done.
This was my experience with Ciro Zizolfi, the small Neapolitan tailor long used by filmmaker Gianluca Migliarotti.
Gianluca is keen to give Ciro (below) some wider exposure, and on this evidence he deserves it. He also travels with his son, Andrea, so there’s a clear future there.
The jacket I picked was classic Neapolitan: three-roll-two buttons on the front, patch hip pockets, welted chest pocket.
However, Ciro’s style is definitely traditional Neapolitan - so roomy, no wrinkling at the top of the sleeve, and certainly not tight or short like some of the younger or newer cutters.
The shoulders aren’t extended, but they’re certainly not small either. There’s a little drape in the chest, some room in the back, and a length similar to many English tailors (finishing on the second joint of my thumb).
This is more the traditional style created by Vincenzo Attolini in Naples, and passed down to his son Claudio Attolini and Ciro Palermo - both of whom trained Ciro.
By comparison with others tailors covered previously, it’s more similar to Ciardi than to Solito or Ettore de Cesare, for example.
It’s still distinctly Neapolitan, with a lightweight construction, generous rolling lapel and open quarters (the opening below the waist button).
Things like the touch of roll in the sleevehead do make it a little smarter than other Neapolitans, though, and it’s borderline as to whether it works with very casual trousers, such as jeans.
I think it does - just - but it would be a better partner to denim if it were a touch shorter, and a little more natural in the shoulders.
I’ve found the same with Ciardi and with Panico - where Caliendo and Solito, for example, are more casual.
I might experiment with reducing that roll and shortening the jacket slightly, in any future commission.
The back of the jacket is very clean, as you can see, though this is definitely helped by the heavy cloth and slightly looser fit. (So much easier to get a clean look with a little looseness - as with my Steven Hitchcock donegal).
The only small fit issue is just below my left shoulder (always a problem area) where the tweed is collapsing slightly and could be lifted. But in other photos this looks perfectly smooth.
A small style point I might change is the position of the hip pockets, which Ciro has placed rather close to the bottom edge. It’s a matter of half a centimetre, but I’d still move it.
And the breast pocket is rather low - 11 inches from the shoulder seam rather than the more standard 10. That too I would raise.
The quality of the finishing is among the best from Naples, with top stitching around all the external seams (though not really visible on the cloth).
That cloth is a 15/16oz tweed from Holland & Sherry (892017) - in the same Harris Tweed bunch as my brown-tweed Caliendo.
That’s heavy enough to be outerwear most of the time, but very effective outerwear, given Harris Tweed’s wind and water-resistance.
I’d wanted a green-tweed jacket for a long time, and considered this one several times.
I thought the various primary colours in the yarn would be too bright, however. They didn’t instinctively appeal in the same way the ones in the Caliendo tweed did.
Turns out I was wrong. It works brilliantly made up, and if anything is more useful than the brown tweed, as it’s darker.
Hopefully this is a helpful thing I can do for readers: not just write about mistakes, but highlight surprising successes as well.
The shirt pictured is my second from 100 Hands. The fit is perfect now, though I’ve found this material a little hard to wear.
Its colour is great, a red and white stripe that makes a nice compliment to green. (Always worth considering opposing colours on the colour wheel.)
But the fabric is hand-woven (on a manual loom). This makes it very light and breathable, plus it looks nice and casual - more like linen. But as it uses a rather coarse cotton, it makes it slightly scratchy against the skin.
Hand looms can’t use the finest of cottons, but they can be finer than this. So I might try that from 100 Hands next time.
Ciro is currently travelling to London only, and of course can be seen in Naples at Via San Pasquale, 4.
I should say that another advantage he has (as does Pommella for trousers) is having Gianluca there to meet clients. Not only does that mean fluent English, but Gianluca has taste - something I think it's fair to say is often lacking among tailors.
My jacket was €2500; suits start at €3300. Contact is [email protected], by phone on +39 081411749 or +39 3383758872, or through Gianluca.
www.sartoriacirozizolfi.com
Elsewhere I’m wearing trousers in grey Pardessus cloth from Holland & Sherry, made by Whitcomb & Shaftesbury, and my vintage folio case from Bentley’s.
Photography: James Holborow, except Ciro portrait. Photography in situ shown during a visit to the Joshua Ellis mill. Full article coming soon.
Lovely. Digging the single sleeve button as well.
Beautiful cloth and a very good fit.
It’s almost refreshing to hear you not find any flaws !
Out of curiosity if you were to take something in that cloth and cut and then proceed to make a ‘block’ for MTM what would the process involve ?
I ask as much of what exists near me is MTM (sometimes masquerading as bespoke) and I’m tryin to understand how such a block would be created.
That’s quite complicated Robin, and not something I’m really qualified to talk about. You’d want a professional pattern maker
Lovely jacket and colour?
Simon,
I’ve been looking forward to this review. The jacket looks good, although I do appreciate your point regarding the drop on your shoulder, something I expect would be corrected for entirely in your next commission.
A suggestion, considering your vast experience with Neapolitan tailors it would be great to have an article / guide / series comparing the various styles and fits. As you mention Ciardi and Zizolfi are more traditional (and more akin to my taste) vs. Solito and Caliendo.
Thanks again,
Stephen
Thanks Stephen. That will be coming actually, with the next few tailors in the Style Breakdown series
Where would Dalcuore stand in relation to those 4 (Ciardi, Zizolfi, Solito, Caliendo)?
In terms of the cut? Somewhere in between – roomy like Ciardi, but natural in the shoulder
can you recommend a source/ merchant for the shirtings, Simon?
For a hand-loomed one like this? No, sorry, it’s all sourced directly by 100 Hands
perhaps there may be a market for a run of PS hand-loomed shirt fabric….?
Off topic but I’m not sure where to ask: what do you know about Zaremba in Warsaw? What is their house style and are you planning to review them now they’re travelling to London?
Yes, I actually visited years ago, and saw them again when they were in London recently.
The tailoring looked OK. But bespoke casualwear probably more interesting – I’m trying a field jacket
I’ve been a fan of Zaremba’s work for a very long time, so it’s not very easy to write this kind of feedback. I’m not sure if it’s any different during trunk-shows, but in Warsaw they have been extremely unreliable with delivering results on agreed date. It has happened that nothing was prepared for a fitting when I showed up.
I’ve seen similar comments popping up on Instagram and then posts being taken down. This is very unfortunate as I think that the product is of great quality.
Hmm. Thanks, good to know
Welcome to the team, T. I also find Zaremba’s craftsmanship pretty good. However, along all my orders I have been feeling extremely disappointed with the end results and the lack of professional attitude towards a customer.
Zaremba is a great example of very unprofessional service. Better to avoid.
Thanks Rob, Sven and T – good to know. Sounds like its better to avoid then, shame!
Just lovely. I wouldn’t change a thing. Out of interest where is the middle button positioned in relation to your belly button?
A tiny bit above it, which is a little lower than most tailors. But it is also slightly longer of course.
The sleeves look too short, especially in the front, are they not?
Not really, I like a good half inch of cuff.
They might be a little shorter on the front from the wrinkling you can see in the sleeves (after a few hours wear – I like to review things after wear, as this is what the piece will look like most of the time)
I know it’s a classic neopolitan style, but the single sleeve button always looked a bit strange to me. Seeing it here, I would almost argue you could forgo it totally, having a clean sleeve with not button or holes. A subtle but nice quirk on a heavier jacket like this, imho.
With all the different colours in the cloth, I was wondering where you would place this jacket on the warm/cold scale you wrote about in April?
Great question. (For anyone else that’s interested, the piece is here.)
I think it sits pretty much halfway – similar to Amechi’s dark-green jacket in that piece. Perhaps a touch warmer, but not enough to make much difference.
As a result how formal it feels depends more on the texture and cut of the jacket, and the other things it’s worn with. If I had worn it with strong tan trousers and a blue shirt, it would have felt a lot warmer/casual; with a white shirt, it would have been smarter.
Simon do you think the colour of this mossy green Harris tweed sport coat: https://bergbergstore.com/collections/tailoring/products/dan-ii-harris-tweed-single-breasted-blazer-moss-green -would be as useful as your forest green one, or less so? For wear in town with denim, flannels, tan cords/chinos. Cheers
Just as useful I think. It’s a little browner and so a little more country, but only a little
How would a similar jacket in loden cloth compare to this one in tweed as to wearability? Just asking because at first sight, this looked like a loden to me, but then the tweed has much more colour variation.
I think Martin is right, the jacket has an interesting middle position on several scales, e.g. formality (dress up vs down), versatilty (outerwear), seasons (autumn, winter spring)…
Loden in its normal coating manifestation would be rather stiffer and thicker.
Personally I wouldn’t go for it, but then I wouldn’t wear a moleskin jacket either, which would have a not dissimilar thickness and texture.
Loren and moleskin of the same texture.
Really?
Are you sure you;re not mistaken here Simon?
Yes. Compared to the other cloths we’re talking about here, principally tweed, they are similar
But Loren is made of wool, and moleskin of cotton.
Yes, which is one reason they’re not exactly the same. Brushed cotton and brushed wool shirts are made from different things, but have similar textures.
The fact its long and lean with no structure creates a problem in that there is not enough shape coming in through the waist and back out into the skirt. To my eye it gives the impression that you’re wearing a tube.
I understand that structure wears warm and feels constricting, but going to the other extreme by removing as much as possible creates aesthetic issues. The pioneers of tailoring Im sure didn’t go out trying their hardest to use masses of wadding, horsehair and canvass but came to realise that they just needed it to create shape. I think the reason most of the Neapolitan tailors who have the least structure brought the skirt higher and higher was because you just cant flare the skirt out well without it (The romans made do with partial structure and the florentines tried to compensate with the extreme curve of the front of the skirt). Thats why the modern Neapolitans as you call them have just got a last vestige of skirt, at least they don’t create a long tubular jacket, although what they are left with is a boxy look instead.
Not for me Im afraid.
Interesting points, thanks Rups.
I think I’d agree with you more if the quarters were more closed, like most of the Row tailors, and if the lapels were thinner and with some belly, again like most English tailors.
Personally I think this jacket has more shape than a lot of the English ones because of those wide lapels, curving inwards towards the waist button, and then curving out again (though as you say, not as extremely as the Neapolitans).
The starting point is not really about how much structure a coat has, its more the shape of the wearer.
A schoolboy physique is never going to have much in the way of shape, regardless of the amount of padding/canvas etc. Its still going to look tube like.
Strong shouldered folk with slim waists are always going to end up with a coat that has shape as they are providing the right infrastructure for it.
This seems like pretty standard neapolitan fare as far as structure goes, so Rups’ comment is dismissing a vast tailoring tradition. I agree that in a vacuum a more structured jacket usually makes for a better looking silhouette, but there are considerations other than the silhouette that apply when designing a jacket. (I prefer less structure on the weekends, for example.) And as far as the tubular form goes, it’s the American sack suit that sets the standard.
Simon looks to have a very shapeless physique with sloping shoulders, so it is very hard with soft tailoring to get much shape into a garment.
By contrast, look at the Sexton DB, where structure and roping “creates” a strong profile
Ah man, be kind! Very shapeless indeed…
Sorry, not meant to be unkind!! Only to say that a more trapezoidal top will automatically give more shape.
No worries, I know what my shoulders are like….
Well, a tall man with strong shoulders, a lean body with a V shape is always going to make the best frame to hang clothes on. Without trying to give Simon a complex, I think he has a pretty good physique to analyse how tailoring is going to look. He’s tall and slim which is the main thing.
I get the idea of Italian rumpled comfortable tailoring. Naples is an extreme though. Their jackets are like wearing a cardigan as there is essentially nothing in them. The kind of guy it seems to suit best is a young slim guy like Jake Grantham from Anglo (he wears a shorter jacket though which avoids that tube look). However, its still never going to convey that strong look of masculinity and power which an traditional SR suit does when done well. If you work in certain fields and have an informal social life perhaps this isn’t what you want to go for anyway. However Ive always wondered why not just wear a pair of jeans and a cardigan instead? To me the latter looks better and more natural on most guys anyway as great looking tailoring seems to have become a rare thing these days.
In terms of cost how much would the cloth alone cost ?
Furthermore , as a general rule what percentage of the cost is for the cloth , trimmings etc ?
H&S don’t sell direct to customers, so there isn’t really a price? There’s a wholesale one for tailors, but that’s not something individuals can use?
On cost of cloth, trimmings etc, see this post.
Simon
They do sell direct. I bought some cavalry twill from them. But be warned, they are very expensive.
Thanks
Talking about price: is there a difference between Naples price and trunk show price?
Not a publicised one, no
Great looking! What is the lapel lapel width at the widest point?
4 inches
Thank you. I prefer a thinner lapel and assume that Mr. Zizolfi would honor that request along with a slightly higher button stance? I’ve gone back and forth on the two vs three button model, but this three roll two looks fantastic. Overall, this is one of your best jackets.
Yes, small changes like that would be fine
Loden:
Which I’m a fan of, yes your right normally associated with Over Coats, is available in lighter weights (suitable for every day wear Jacket) Do remember, one of lodens virtues is its rain repellent
Thanks, and yes it is nice in lighter weights. I’d have the same reservations though
Simon, in the vein of smaller Italian tailors that deserve a bit more exposure – any plans to do a review of Biagio Granata? I noticed during a trunk show this summer that he’s made up one or two pieces for you. I have one jacket from him so far with two more on the way and the fit was spot on (and the price reasonable).
Yes, it’s coming… Unfortunately the process has not been smooth. I’m still waiting for the trousers to a suit we started on a year ago.
So far the work has been pretty good, but the process very hard
My experience has also been that it takes a very, very long time for delivery. It makes me wary of commissioning additional garments beyond the 1 delivered and 2 on order so far, but I guess we’ll see. The fit on my one jacket so far was excellent.
I’m a customer of Biagio since two years now. What can I say? Yes the customer service is a disaster BUT he is a very honest guy and a gifted tailor and can deliver a great product at a great price at two conditions:
1/ You must speak italian. If you don’t it’ll generate big misunderstanding from the beginning. At least give him a precise sketch of what you want.
2/ Manage him if you want a consistent product: his house cut is very slim and too short. If you give the right indications he can tailor a very very good garment.
Finally I’d recommend to visit directly in Naples. Last time he made me a jacket in one week. If you use him in a trunk show it’ll take at least one year. So be patient. Curious to read Simon review.
Thank you David, very useful, and similar to my experiences so far too
Dear Simon,
one question which not quite belongs to the topic. May I ask which notebook you are using? Since a long time I am searching for a notebook in DIN A 5 size, preferring tan or cagnac toned leather with the opportunity to replace the book, when it’s full.
It was a present from my sister when visited Venice I’m afraid. It’s smaller than A5 too.
There’s moleskin obviously, and I like the Treuleben ones that Trunk now has. Expensive though. For something not so crafted Smythson does have some nice colours (always liked the blue paper)
I think this jacket is very flattering, Simon.
I think you’ve got the numbers on the breast pocket placement the wrong way around.
When you do a one-button sleeve, is it sham or functioning?
Cheers
Thanks.
Functioning
Simon
Are the buttons shiny or matt?
Matte
Any suggestions on where to buy matt buttons? I’ve tried Bernstein but their selection has narrowed significantly over the years.
Really? I got some matte ones from them recently – the unpolished ones
I wanted dark brown matte in sizes 23 and 32 but there doesn’t appear to be any. Are you suggesting the website is not up to date?
No it is as far as I was aware. Perhaps they’ve recently run out of stock. Also worth trying Courtney & Co – https://courtneyandco.uk/. Nice story there too
Sorry, just checked the Courtney & Co website and although I’ve seen them supply horn buttons elsewhere I think, they seem to only have corozo on sale to the public currently
Matt.
Dugdale do some nice dark brown matt horn
It’s a well-cut jacket, but the fabric is difficult. It looks mossy and appropriately placed far left on the rural-urban spectrum, so flannel doesn’t quite work with it. That shade of green doesn’t work well with dark denim. Maybe brown tweed or moleskin? But then you’d look like a frigging tree. I don’t know—seems very restrictive to me.
Highly personal opinion
I love the cut and cloth but don’t think the trousers and shirt complement it at all well.
This makes the colour of the jacket extremely difficult to judge.
Hi Simon, will there be a review of the 100 hands shirt at some point in the future?
Yes…
Simon,
Given your knowledge of the suit makers in Naples, I was wondering if you could opine on Eddy Monetti? I know it is mostly RTW, but they may do bespoke as well. Certainly for a fact their prices are much more competitive, especially when compared to the more famous fashion houses like Canali or Corneliani.
I can’t really comment on the RTW or bespoke I’m afraid. Make sure the suits have a floating canvas and some obvious handwork, eg attaching the collar, if you want to assess the quality – look up our guide to suit quality if you want more there
Hi Simon,
Always a good read, thanks for your posts.
In your opinion which mill/distributor has the best tweed? Taking into accounts designs, wool used, construction etc..
Obviously H&S has some very beautiful designs but are there smaller, lesser known and more “traditional” mills? Perhaps in Scotland, Northern England?
I’m trying to organise a road trip in that area for next summer, would be very nice to visit some good old places.
Thanks again,
Marc
Lovat are definitely worth a visit. Bear in mind though that H&S don’t weave most of this themselves, but design, stock and sell it. That means a plain mill might not have stock to sell, might do little design work, and may be making for H&S or one of the others already
Hi Simon,please could you email me the name of the writing journal you are using on the piece and where can I buy them?
Thanks
I’m afraid it was a gift – and bought at stationer’s in Venice I believe
Hi Simon,
How does Zizolfi compare to Sartoria Dalcuore in terms of quality and style? Would one be a better fit for a tall, athletic figure over the other? For my first ever bespoke commission, would you consider one easier to communicate/work with?
I’m based in the US. Ciro says he will begin making visits to NYC this summer. Would you have any concerns about beginning a project with him in Napoli (I’ll be visiting in May) considering he does not have an established presence in the US? A return trip to Napoli would be unlikely.
Appreciate your insight!
Hi JC,
In terms of quality, I’d say they are very similar, perhaps Zizolfi looks slightly more consistent.
In terms of style, Dalcuore would generally have a more relaxed and natural shoulder. So depends whether you want that or not.
And on travelling, I think it’s certainly a small risk to go with Zizolfi if he doesn’t come to the US yet. Though Dalcuore have also been a little patchy. It might be safest to wait until Zizolfi have come once or twice to the US?
Simon
Hi Simon,
How do you find Ciardi vs Zizolfi?
I’ve noticed Ciro is coming to the UK more often now, like Ciardi (every quarter for the last three months).
Thanks,
Stephen
I find them quite similar – similar styles, similar reliability
Was the collapsed shoulder ever fixed?
Simon, lovely jacket! Kindly advise me if similar color tweed jacket would work with PS Everyday Denim shirt, mid gray flannel trousers and brown penny suede loafers? Thank you in advance.
That would be a lovely combination, yes.
Simon, seems Ciardi and Zizolfi are getting more and more space in your closet these days, and for good reason indeed.
Any plans to try that more casual shoulder, similar to what you did with the gun club Ciardo, on Zizolfi too?
No good point, I haven’t talked to Zizolfi about it. Not sure they’re the kind of place that would do variations like that, but I will ask.
Dear Simon,
Could you comment on what style changes you decided to do with the second Zizolfi jacket in PS Escorial tweed?
Did you change the shoulder? Also, could you comment on the lapel roll on the Zizolfi jacket. I find that it opens very early (close to the upper part of the jacket) and you can see the 1st button as opposed to other Neapolitans. The lapel roll bothers me a bit and some of the pictures I do not like, on others it’s perfect. (I understand I should judge too much based on pictures.) Your comments would be highly appreciated as I have an appointment with Ciro for next week in London and the lapel roll is the only thing that makes me a bit uneasy. Is it more a result of the construction or of ironing?
Best regards,
Alex
Hey Alex,
I didn’t really change anything the second time around. It’s the same jacket and cut.
The lapel roll is a hard one to change, as it is the result of several things. I would mention it to them, and see if they suggest just moving the waist button slightly, or even the top button down a tiny bit. But don’t expect to be able to reproduce exactly what you want, as it’s so much a part of their style and way of working.
Dear Simon,
I will just go with it as it is and see how it turns out. I have to see how I like it once it is finished. I hope I do, I am certain that they will do a wonderful job. Thank you very much.
Alex
Dear Simon and readers,
Such an irrelevant worry. Amazing work, very nice people and the style is extremely nice and elegant. No exaggerated roll, just beautiful. Instagram/ photos are so misleading, it’s hard to explain. Very reassuring meeting and looking forward to working with them.
Alex
Do you tend to prefer 3-roll-2 with Neapolitans? Or for more casual jackets? Isn’t tweed a bit too springy, making it look more like a 3 button jacket? Your jackets from say Steven Hitchcock are 2 buttons instead.
I prefer them from Neapolitans, yes, but don’t have them from anyone else as I don’t tend to like the style – hence my style with Steven as you point out.
And no, the material doesn’t make much of a difference – it’s all about where the canvas is cut, and the tension in the collar
Hi Simon,
I’ve had sport coats made with Ciro and now plan to commission a suit with him. Do you know who makes his trousers? Marco C. makes my odd trousers now. Would it be appropriate to request he make trousers on a Ciro suit?
Also, do you have a multi season mid gray worsted twill recommendation offhand? Appreciate your input as always.
No worries.
I wouldn’t ask Ciro to use Cerrato, no. But you could happily commission the trousers separately with him. Just tell Ciro and say he is your trouser maker, you like what he does and want to stick with it. That should be ok.
And no, nothing on worsted twills immediately I’m afraid. Never commissioned anything exactly like that.
Does H&S still offer this dark green fabric?
What do you think of the weight? Would you prefer it to be lighter (11 or 13 oz)?
Why don’t you make your Escorial wool in brown and green closer to your H&S tweed, since you said yourself they get more wear because they’re darker.
Yes they do. The number is different though – new bunch. It’s now 8919019
Is it the new number 100% exact same fabric as yours simon?
And yes how do you feel about the 15 oz weight for Southern Cali? What’s a good tweed weight for that area?
Gracias.
Yes it is. It’s just when a book gets refreshed, all the cloths moved from the old one to the new hey new numbers.
I think it would be pretty heavy. I’d look more at 11-12oz tweed really
Simon, this is such a lovely jacket! But can I just confirm, are you sure it is 891019 and not 8919017? It looks rather more green than the former, which appears to have more brown tones? Thanks!
No, it’s definitely 8919019. There is a lot of brown in there
Thanks Simon, much appreciated. I am hoping to have one of the two made up for my second jacket shortly (after navy, of course). Out of interest, if you wore this with charcoal flannels and a blue OCBD, what, if any, tie might you pair this with?
Ooo, loads of colours would look nice. Navy certainly, and black too probably, as well as light grey. Then moving onto colours, browns and oranges, plus possibly purple
Thank you Simon! Good to hear. Do you think even a navy grenadine would work, or would that be pushing the formality of this jacket?
A large knot grenadine might be OK, yes, though as you say, pushing the boundaries. Helps if the other parts of the outfit are similarly smart
Are the rounded ends of the sleeve typical for Zizolfi?
I find them a bit unfavorable, since they will expose more shirt on some points than on others.
They’re not rounded, they’re straight cut. It’s just perhaps the way that cut has been made which makes them seem a little that way
Hi Simon, I was lead to this article by your most recent on Willy Wang [site linking working well]. How versatile do you find this weight of cloth for wear in the UK? I was wondering between which months this weight is appropriate. I ask as I am expecting /delivery of a 17/18oz tweed jacket shortly, ordered for the cooler months of the year and I would like a second perhaps more versatile weight that retains the look/ feel of tweed.
It is quite heavy. If you’re looking for something that’s more versatile, I’d go for a lighter weight. Perhaps the shetland or lambswool from Moon for example
Hi Simon, may i ask how versatile you find this cloth to be, and how frequently do you reach for this jacket? I am building a wardrobe at the moment and have started with your brown escorial tweed. I really like these hairier tweeds though, for something more casual, and dark green seems like the way to go. Naturally i will go for a softer cut (probably Prologue or Anthology, as i live in Asia), to offset the country side association of tweed.
I know i should get a navy jacket next, but i don’t require that level of formality in my dress, and – if i am honest with myself – i love the color and texture variation that tweeds like this give, which i am yet to see recreated in a navy cloth. Navy tweed has the texture, but limited color variation it seems; do correct me if i am wrong.
Many thanks.
Hi John,
I love this green, and use it a lot. I’d highly recommend it. It’s dark enough to not seem too country gent either. The only downside is it’s heavy, but I don’t know how you feel about heavier cloths – that might be an advantage
Many thanks Simon, that gives confidence and it is top of my list for a next jacket. As mentioned, I am building a wardrobe and I find myself having to be careful not to buy things too quickly/rushed, a point I remember Aleks making in a video with you. I try to mull things over for a month or two before making a decision, and to stay away from shiny items (an orange Todd’s messenger bag I bought being testament to when that didn’t happen).
I see the weight of tweed as neither a positive nor a negative. In the same way that there is no bad weather, only the wrong choice of clothes, it all depends on how a tweed jacket will be used. Personally I feel the cold more than the heat, and would like to be able to wear it as an outer layer.
Many thanks again.
Nice, that sounds like a very sensible approach John
Dear Simon! Just to get a reference regarding the colour of this green tweed from H&S: Is it similar to this green tweed from B&B: https://bergbergstore.com/products/dante-tweed-blazer-brown ? I know, always troublesome to have to judge from pictures…
I also want to avoid the “elegant farmer” sphere and so I am interested in dark enough shades of green.
You said this green cloth from H&S might be more useful than your brown one, but you launched the brown one some weeks ago and you called the brown “your favourite” from H&S. But the dark green is still in theory more versatile?
Thank you very much!
It is hard to say, but yes I would say the H&S one is similar, just with more going on given it’s a Harris Tweed. Both would avoid that country look.
That brown is my favourite, and there’s not much to pick between them in terms of versatility – more significant is the style. In that the green is more urban, darker, smarter.
Hi Simon, I‘m not sure this will get answered because the article is three years old but I give it a try. I have a jacket from Drake’s in a similar colour and fabric (Although not as luxurious in make) what kind of tie would you choose if you would wear it on the more formal spectrum (I was thinking about white/cream shirt, mid grey flannel trousers, dark brown suede shoes)? Kind regards
Hi Benedikt,
Don’t worry, I answer all comments, no matter how old the post. It’s what keeps them all relevant and useful.
There are lots of ties that would work in that combination. With a blue shirt a navy grenadine, a rich red, perhaps a dark brown too. With a white shirt, perhaps more likely a knitted grey, perhaps a yellow.
Thank you so much Simon for taking the time and thanks for your suggestions, super useful and inspirational! I already wore this combination in a more casual context with the cream Dartmoor from you which I absolutely love.
Oh great, good to know Benedikt
Hi Simon
trying to find the closest bunch to your Zizolfi/Caliendo from the current H&S Harris tweed offerings- for commissioning a soft casual but also urban/muted tweed jacket to use with jeans/chinos/flannels
is this the right sort of thing? https://apparel.hollandandsherry.com/en/fabric/use/jackets/8919020-harris-tweed-bitter-chocolate-mix-solid
or is there another bunch or supplier you’d recommend?
Yes, that looks really nice. Others worth looking at W Bill and Moon
if that’s the one I think it is (I’m at work and sample is at home), I really did not like it. indoors it’s fine, but under bright sunlight, it has too much red in it for me to consider it as “dark brown”.
Thank you so much. I’m really agonising about this decision, having spent a lot previously on a navy jacket that wasn’t a dark enough shade of navy. Do not want to spend thousands on these commissions without the fabric being a source of joy
here you go. took a sample from my visit to Holland and sherry headquarters.
didn’t work on previous comment.
Thanks, that really is extraordinary! A riot of bright colours, can’t see how that turns out into a Permanentstyle- style dark brown at all. Interesting! Argh, the search for a good urban tweed continues. The PS tweed is also out of stock.
I looked online at Moons and W Bill and couldn’t see anything promising there
Hello Simon, i am just about to buy a length of this same H&S ‘forest’ tweed and was hoping for your help on two questions:
1) I assume you have found no issues wearing this with jeans? I have a swatch of the fabric and it looks like a good match to me; substantial texture, and colour variation. My concern is that it might be too dark and therefore formal.
2) You also had a ‘forest’ tweed jacket made by Biagio Granata, which i see you gave away. May i know the details of that, and how you found it compared to the H&S one?
Thanks for your help!
1) No issue, except that I should have asked Ciro for more natural shoulders. Cloth is great – lighter would be easier, yes, but it’s a very small point.
2) That was easier, being a lighter green, certainly. If you want something lighter in colour perhaps look at Moon, or the Fox Tweed I had made here.
Many thanks Simon, very much appreciated.
If i may explain my current dilemma (!) in more detail; i have a length of your brown escorial tweed sitting in my wardrobe, and that is as formal as i will likely ever need (for the same reason, i am staying away from navy as i just don’t need anything so formal). Then, i want a hairier tweed that i can pair with jeans. I am considering this forest tweed, the grey herringbone that you used for your first Anthology jacket, and have just looked also at the green herringbone you used for your subsequent Anthology jacket, which is equally lovely. I covet all three! However, if the goal is to specifically pair the jacket with jeans, which of these have you found works best? I suspect the grey herringbone?
It’s the usual problem; too many beautiful fabrics and insufficient budget or tolerance from my wife to justify so many jackets!
Thanks again.
Thanks Rob, that makes sense. And yes, I’d certainly say the grey herringbone. You’ll get a lot of use out of that
Do you think ciro’s jacket can be more casual if i ask them?
Not really. You can have the shoulders unpadded, and even a slightly shorter length, but the main aspects of the cut will remain the same
I agree with you people say panico
is super comfortable is that true?
Yes it is, but largely because it’s a pretty generous cut
hello simon just only the outlook
ehich you think it’s better panico or ciro
Hi Simon, firstly love all your posts! We’ve learnt a lot from you.
My partner had his first suit tailored by Panico last year (which he adores), and for this 30th I am wanting to have a sports jacket tailored for him. I am considering Zizolfi as a strong option, do you have a preferred tailor for a sports jacket? He would like to wear it casually too which is my only worry based on this post. Would love to hear who you would recommend to visit for this.
Thank you!
Zizolfi would be fine, though I would marginally, personally prefer Ciardi for something like that
Dear all,
I would like to praise Ciro and Andrea Zizolfi.
Firstly, this is subjective but I believe they have a great house style, more traditional Neapolitan than modern meaning that the jackets are a bit longer and proportions are balanced. The shoulder is light but is not shirred for effect. The DB design is absolutely spot on perfect in terms of proportions, shoulder expression. I have been so exhilarated with the DB perfection that the day after I received my first DB, I placed an order for my second one.
Their clothes have been the most comfortable to wear and I feel at home in them. I have 2 SR top houses structured clothing and 2 drape cut tailors and yet Ciro’s clothes are always the first I pick from my closet. They are easy to wear and i don’t feel dressed up in them, I feel very much myself. Even if I am wearing a DB flannel chalkstripe, I don’t feel as if I am trying too hard or overdressed, which I can’t say for a simple structured sport coat. The “cardigan” feel doesn’t come from the fact that the clothes are shapeless or feel like cardigans, rather it’s as easy to wear and you don’t feel more dressed up than you would in a cardigan (or at least I don’t).
I will put the disclaimer that fit hasn’t been perfect especially with the collar staying on, we only got it on the 3rd try and I can’t say that it is perfect on my SB jackets, it is absolutely perfect on my DB jackets. If you are new to bespoke or just considering your first commission, don’t let this bother you too much. You come to accept it and love the clothes and it’s not something that is specific to Ciro, I have had all tailors struggle with this (really the top SR houses with suits 6k+). I have at least one garment from each that has this issue and I can say that Drape cut garments have been much better at sticking to my neck than structured ones. And there’s never a guarantee as I have had garments with 2 fittings come out perfectly (Ciro’s DB) and SR 6 fitting garments with collar issues. I digress. A great fitting coat can have imperfections like a small collar gape and it is annoying in the beginning but it doesn’t make me not love my clothes.
The only warning I would put out which I haven’t come across much is that I don’t believe every fabric suits every suit construction style (structured, drape, Neapolitan). You can have it but it’s not as good. Also, a tweed Neapolitan coat looks much different than a cotton one and in my eyes the style lends its self much more to the cotton one than the tweed one.
Maybe Simon could elaborate this further as I don’t have it perfectly structured in my mind but a tweed I would have most in a Drape cut, less so in a Neapolitan and never in a structured. A linen in a structured or Neapolitan, not a drape cut. A 13 oz worsted twill mostly in a structured cut, less so in a drape cut but not in a Neapolitan one. Flannels in Neaplitan or Drape but not in a structured one. These are personal preferences and I feel there’s some logic that goes beyond only fabric matching style but rather construction matching the fabric.
My point was Ciro and Andrea make great garments which you will love and they have been very honest and willing to make adjustments to fit so that it improves. I highly recommend them.
Best,
P
I don’t understand this terminology of “drape cut”, in terms of “drape cut tailor”. Can someone explain what is meant by that?
It refers to a particular method of cutting that leaves more space in the chest and back, making you look bigger in those areas and adding comfort. But it does so artfully, so the space is largely hidden and it doesn’t look sloppy
There are other aspects to the style, but that is by far the biggest one
Hi, is this the type of coat that you can wear every day or do you still recommend letting it hang for at least a day or two before wearing again?
You could wear it every day and it would do better than something finer and lighter, definitely. Still nice to give it a break now and again though